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Gestault

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,371
I have noticed nothing on my pro

Not to be too harsh, but if you've played it at the default res, we have video in the OP showing legitimately bad performance on the Pro. And I'm under the impression that both with supersampling disabled and with the optional framerate cap, we have consistent reporting that there are frame-pacing issues.

That's not me saying people can't enjoy a game with those problems, just that you seem to be ignoring or aren't noticing problems that matter for a topic like this.
 
Jan 17, 2019
964
My Samsung Q9FN TV has a option called Freesync, I enable variable refresh rate on Xbox One X and it's go time baby!

Does it downscale resolution to 1080p when VRR is enabled on Q9FN? Because i read it when VRR is enabled on that TV.

EDIT : Probably it does :

Given a choice between FreeSync at a downscaled 1080p or standard 4K output, we'd probably take the latter, given current results.

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/...amsung-adds-freesync-support-to-select-4k-tvs
 
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leng jai

Member
Nov 2, 2017
15,119
What I want to know is why Square don't seem to use TAA in their UE4 games. Didn't Gears 4 have barely any aliasing because of the TAA? Yet Kingdom Hearts and DQ11 have bad aliasing even when downsampled from high resolutions.
 
OP
OP
Railgun

Railgun

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,148
Australia
What I want to know is why Square don't seem to use TAA in their UE4 games. Didn't Gears 4 have barely any aliasing because of the TAA? Yet Kingdom Hearts and DQ11 have bad aliasing even when downsampled from high resolutions.
I'd say KH3 has far from bad aliasing, the art in the game lends to pretty clean imagine quality with the AA they're currently using, especially in cutscenes. Also Gears 4 uses a custom implementation of TAA (the best IMO), not UE4's in built TAA which is softer if I recall.
 

leng jai

Member
Nov 2, 2017
15,119
I'd say KH3 has far from bad aliasing, the art in the game lends to pretty clean imagine quality with the AA they're currently using, especially in cutscenes. Also Gears 4 uses a custom implementation of TAA (the best IMO), not UE4's in built TAA which is softer if I recall.

Not sure, I haven't played that much but you could see obvious aliasing immediately in the first cutscene and the first proper world. Maybe it gets better later?
 
OP
OP
Railgun

Railgun

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,148
Australia
Not sure, I haven't played that much but you could see obvious aliasing immediately in the first cutscene and the first proper world. Maybe it gets better later?
The top of Olympus has the worst aliasing in the entire game I've found but it's definitely not perfect in the rest of the game. It's definitely still cleaner than a lot other games and cutscenes definitely have a huge boost in IQ. Though undoubtedly it would have been great to see a sharp TAA, along with smoother performance but unfortunately not.
 
OP
OP
Railgun

Railgun

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,148
Australia
Fancied it but until and even if a 30fps cap on Pro is introduced I'm out.
It already has a 30FPS framerate cap, it has framepacing issues though. (Still unsure about there being framepacing issues on consoles other than base PS4 though). VGTech and Digital Foundry have videos on the way that will shed a lot more light.
 

Kain-Nosgoth

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,569
Switzerland
I don't have KH3 yet, but does this work on 0.2? I want to try doing 1080p for better framerate on PRO

EDIT : just tested it, it does indeed give a better framerate
 
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Edge

A King's Landing
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
21,012
Celle, Germany
I'd say for the most part this is a rather clean game IQ wise on X.

Nah. I agree that some world's can be rather clean, like Rapunzel, but "for the most part"?
No, no no no no no no, no. You have constantly the feeling that everything you look at, maybe not always have jaggies, but, how to describe, has rough and sharp edges and outlines and textures, constantly. You look at anything in this game and think "man it's so oversharpen and rough", somehow.

Maybe it's just me and my expectation, I don't know, I played through the whole saga in 30 days, every game with super sampling, looking as clean as a baby's ass with zero aliasing anywhere.
And then I play 3, as example, stand in front of the Twilight Town Mansion and, for real, think that this area looks worse as in the collections cause it has aliasing as fuck while the collection on the same spot looked like a f'n painting.
It's really sad, cause the overall graphics are beautiful in 3, it has moments where you think "my god is this game gorgeous", but the aliasing ruins it way too often and too much. It's a shame.
 

Rickyrozay2o9

Member
Dec 11, 2017
4,363
Someone at Square trolling perhaps. Though technically the frame rate is more stable than default mo

I wonder how close the 1X could get to stable 60fps if there was a way to force it to 1080p.

This is exactly what I'm wondering. If the PS4 was able to gain around 10fps on the Pro from dropping down to it I'm pretty sure the X would be damn near stable 60 with a few drops probably to low 50s when things get really hectic. At this point I'd welcome the option even if the graphics took a slight hit.
 

Pottuvoi

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,065
That's a pretty weird case then cause on a 1080p, it's horrible. Super Sampling does absolute nothing here. Aliasing on every single corner, even on the f'n character portraits.
Supersampling is really bad on axis aligned edges.
Basically 4x samples for single new occlusion/sub sample per edge. (X&Y)
With less than 4x samples we get 'waves' on each direction where samples fit screen resolution better or worse. (From 1 sample per pixel up to 2 weighted by their location in the grid.)
I can see shimmering even on a small window ..

Almost looks like there's no temporal AA here .. I thought TAA came standard with UE4.
It's the default AA method and a lot of features depend it to reduce sample counts needed. (Hair, SSR etc.)
What I want to know is why Square don't seem to use TAA in their UE4 games. Didn't Gears 4 have barely any aliasing because of the TAA? Yet Kingdom Hearts and DQ11 have bad aliasing even when downsampled from high resolutions.
Japanese developers seem to have affinity towards sharp image and do to prefer aliasing to softness. (We have seen games with no mipmaps or very strongly tweaked mipmap bias.)
It looks like they just thought that the default TAA is too blurry or causes trails behind moving objects and didn't want to deal with it.

At least a while ago UE4 had wide resolve filter which does give soft look by default. (Basically a 1.25? pixel wide blur on whole image.)
Would love to see easy option to tweak this for developers as not everyone likes the overly soft look and TAA does allow to get away with low sample counts for many shaders.
 
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mikeys_legendary

The Fallen
Sep 26, 2018
3,009
I have been waiting since 2006. I'll wait a bit to pick it up, maybe they'll release a patch that can stabilize that frame rate in resolution mode on the Pro. Janky frame rates are the worst.
 

DrDeckard

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,109
UK
man watching the pro video again, that pro framerate is pretty shocking at 50 fps (all over the place) most of the time. They need a pc version, but until then the One X would be the only place I could play this.
 

Valcrist

Tic-Tac-Toe Champion
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,706
Played on PS4 Pro with default graphics setting for 9 1/2 hours yesterday and haven't noticed bad performance. I'm glad I'm not sensitive to this kind of thing.
 

Seganomics

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,495
man watching the pro video again, that pro framerate is pretty shocking at 50 fps (all over the place) most of the time. They need a pc version, but until then the One X would be the only place I could play this.

Thing is, if you're sensitive to drops then the X is still going to be far from ideal as it noticeably drops at times. It's not ruining my enjoyment but if fluctuating frames are a no no for you then the Pro AND the X are gonna be a struggle.
 

Rickyrozay2o9

Member
Dec 11, 2017
4,363
Make a 1080p mode with unlocked fps on the X (unrealistic) and fix the stable mode frame pacing across all platforms (realistic). It's just a matter of when they'll get to it. I believe FFXV took a few weeks to get patched didn't it? So let's hope they get it done here.
 

DrDeckard

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,109
UK
Thing is, if you're sensitive to drops then the X is still going to be far from ideal as it noticeably drops at times. It's not ruining my enjoyment but if fluctuating frames are a no no for you then the Pro AND the X are gonna be a struggle.

Totally agree, that's why we need PC versions of these games. Xbox seems ok in some situations but the ps4 pro rarely hits 60, makes you think why they did it.
 

ultima786

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,711
Playing on pro. The stable frame rate mode is terribly stuttery. But the performance mode works great. Seems very smooth but definite drops
 
Oct 26, 2017
8,992
It does. I also have the Q9FN and don't have Freesync enabled for two reasons:
1)1080p ouput only

2)I'd have to connect the One X directly to the TV, bypassing my receiver causing my X to output stereo sound.

Wow, what a shame. It really isn't the killer feature at all then, not for 4K gaming.

As for bypassing the receiver, yeah same here man. I've always had the X connected to my Denon because otherwise I would get audio delay when using Dolby Digital on Xbox and there's no fix for it.

I said I barely saw a difference but I haven't done a direct comparison just yet. I'll disable Freesync on the TV and VRR on the Xbox and compare properly.

How did you find out about it being 1080p?
 

jackdoe

Member
Oct 27, 2017
670
Wow, what a shame. It really isn't the killer feature at all then, not for 4K gaming.

As for bypassing the receiver, yeah same here man. I've always had the X connected to my Denon because otherwise I would get audio delay when using Dolby Digital on Xbox and there's no fix for it.

I said I barely saw a difference but I haven't done a direct comparison just yet. I'll disable Freesync on the TV and VRR on the Xbox and compare properly.

How did you find out about it being 1080p?
The Xbox One X system menu actually mentions 1080p output only when you try to select freesync.
 

Seganomics

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,495
Nah. I agree that some world's can be rather clean, like Rapunzel, but "for the most part"?
No, no no no no no no, no. You have constantly the feeling that everything you look at, maybe not always have jaggies, but, how to describe, has rough and sharp edges and outlines and textures, constantly. You look at anything in this game and think "man it's so oversharpen and rough", somehow.

Maybe it's just me and my expectation, I don't know, I played through the whole saga in 30 days, every game with super sampling, looking as clean as a baby's ass with zero aliasing anywhere.
And then I play 3, as example, stand in front of the Twilight Town Mansion and, for real, think that this area looks worse as in the collections cause it has aliasing as fuck while the collection on the same spot looked like a f'n painting.
It's really sad, cause the overall graphics are beautiful in 3, it has moments where you think "my god is this game gorgeous", but the aliasing ruins it way too often and too much. It's a shame.

I feel bad now as I scoffed at a poster earlier suggesting this game is running at 1080p on X. But after switching between 4K and 1080p on the X1X settings the game looks identical in the two modes on a 4K screen.
I can only guess then that X1X is indeed running this game at 1080p with no difference in visual quality even between the two different 'in game' modes.

Cutscenes maybe running at a higher resolution however....
 

TheZynster

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,285
my monitor is starting to die, X players whats a good fresync monitor to buy for 1080p use? I don't need 4k due to my capture card
 
Oct 26, 2017
8,992
I feel bad now as I scoffed at a poster earlier suggesting this game is running at 1080p on X. But after switching between 4K and 1080p on the X1X settings the game looks identical in the two modes on a 4K screen.
I can only guess then that X1X is indeed running this game at 1080p with no difference in visual quality even between the two different 'in game' modes.

Cutscenes maybe running at a higher resolution however....

That would explain why I didn't see a difference either when I had VRR on and then off. Really odd if this game is only 1080p but at the same time I can't hate too much because it does look crisp to me! Still I can't deny it would be a shame if there's no real differences. Especially compared to FFXV where they definitely took advantage of the X iirc.
 

Edge

A King's Landing
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
21,012
Celle, Germany
I feel bad now as I scoffed at a poster earlier suggesting this game is running at 1080p on X. But after switching between 4K and 1080p on the X1X settings the game looks identical in the two modes on a 4K screen.
I can only guess then that X1X is indeed running this game at 1080p with no difference in visual quality even between the two different 'in game' modes.

Cutscenes maybe running at a higher resolution however....

Really interesting, that would explain a lot.

Also both "graphic modes" have no differences other than restricting the frame rate.
Really weird that they aren't even boosting the graphics or resolution up when you restrict the fps. It's so odd.
 

Seganomics

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,495
Okay. Another quick test done and the game does look a tad sharper using the 4K output vs 1080p (supersampled).
So, we are running above 1080p on X during gameplay, but the better Res appears to do little to improve the shimmering.
It's like there is basically no AA in place at all.
 
Oct 27, 2017
828
It does. I also have the Q9FN and don't have Freesync enabled for two reasons:
1)1080p ouput only

2)I'd have to connect the One X directly to the TV, bypassing my receiver causing my X to output stereo sound.

Wait, why is your Q9FN only allowed 1080p output with Freesync/VRR when my cheaper NU8000 has no issues with 4k freesync? Maybe I missed a post.

When I have my TV on the Xbox source and select the xbox from the source list again it tells the resolution at the top "3840x2160 Freesync 59Hz Xbox HDMI 1"
Additional HDR logo in a supported game.
 

Seganomics

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,495
Also both "graphic modes" have no differences other than restricting the frame rate.
Really weird that they aren't even boosting the graphics or resolution up when you restrict the fps. It's so odd.

Yeah. Absolutely no difference between the two in game options in terms of visual quality. The 'stable' mode is basically redundant as it's still not even a smooth 30 anyway.
 
OP
OP
Railgun

Railgun

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,148
Australia
I feel bad now as I scoffed at a poster earlier suggesting this game is running at 1080p on X. But after switching between 4K and 1080p on the X1X settings the game looks identical in the two modes on a 4K screen.
I can only guess then that X1X is indeed running this game at 1080p with no difference in visual quality even between the two different 'in game' modes.

Cutscenes maybe running at a higher resolution however....
That would explain why I didn't see a difference either when I had VRR on and then off. Really odd if this game is only 1080p but at the same time I can't hate too much because it does look crisp to me! Still I can't deny it would be a shame if there's no real differences. Especially compared to FFXV where they definitely took advantage of the X iirc.
Really interesting, that would explain a lot.

Also both "graphic modes" have no differences other than restricting the frame rate.
Really weird that they aren't even boosting the graphics or resolution up when you restrict the fps. It's so odd.
Kind of boggling my mind how anyone thought this game was 1080p. On the X, maybe go back and play some 1080p games to get a better idea of that resolution. Digital Foundry confirmed its 1440p on X.
 

Seganomics

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,495
Kind of boggling my mind how anyone thought this game was 1080p. On the X, maybe go back and play some 1080p games to get a better idea of that resolution. Digital Foundry confirmed its 1440p on X.

Try it out yourself maybe. The difference is hardly pronounced when switching between 1080 and 4K with this game. The AA solution clearly doesn't help.
If there's one thing I've learnt it's that 1440p is a pretty neglible jump over a 1080p supersampled image, at least in this case.
 

Edge

A King's Landing
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
21,012
Celle, Germany
Kind of boggling my mind how anyone thought this game was 1080p. On the X, maybe go back and play some 1080p games to get a better idea of that resolution. Digital Foundry confirmed its 1440p on X.

How is that mind boggling when it has aliasing from hell? Hard to believe it had higher res when super sampling does absolute shit for this game. Which is normally not the case.
It's also not mind boggling when you realize that both modes that the game gives you has zero differences in res or graphic setting, which is also very very odd and not normal for a game to do.
So that left us with only 2 solutions here, it either has a higher res, but it never changes or it doesn't even has any res bump at all.

Now we know it has 1440p, but still, it's not surprising, in my opinion, why we also thought it could be just 1080p.
 
Oct 26, 2017
8,992
Kind of boggling my mind how anyone thought this game was 1080p. On the X, maybe go back and play some 1080p games to get a better idea of that resolution. Digital Foundry confirmed its 1440p on X.

I did say I found it very crisp for 1080p. It's just too crisp to be that resolution. But the difference between with VRR enabled (and thus downscaled to 1080p) versus 1440p at first glance wasn't a striking difference. Native 4K versus 1080p I find is much easier to spot the difference.
 

Hawk269

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,044
Does it downscale resolution to 1080p when VRR is enabled on Q9FN? Because i read it when VRR is enabled on that TV.

EDIT : Probably it does :



https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/...amsung-adds-freesync-support-to-select-4k-tvs

That sounds odd. I looked at Rting review of the Q9FN and after the firmware update that added Freesync to the Q9FN this is what they say in the review:


https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/samsung/q9fn-q9f-q9-2018


Update 05/23/2018: Firmware version 1103 has added Freesync support. We are currently testing it and will update the review shortly.
Update 06/08/2018: FreeSync has been tested and the score has been updated. FreeSync was supported from our Xbox One S and our Radeon RX 580 GPU, in 1080p, 1440p and 4k resolutions. FreeSync is activated by enabling the TV's Game mode and FreeSync settings; PC mode is not required. We tested in Ultimate mode because it has the widest range, and we only recommend Basic mode when you experience problems with Ultimate.

They also say the VRR range at 4k Max is 60hz and Min at 48hz. At 1080p the Max is 120hz and Min is <20 Hz. That range at 4k is what most users wish would be wider so that it would be beneficial for 30fps games when they dip below 30fps. I have used Freesync limited on my set because I cant through my Atmos set up, but when I have used it, it looked extremely clean and the tv was reporting 3840x2160p.