Kindred Fates kickstarter announced - An Open World Monster Battling RPG

SchroDingerzat · Jan 29, 2020

Kindred Fates - An Open World Monster Battling RPG

Capture monsters, explore a dark and unforgiving region, and fight to take back your home in this open world RPG.

www.kickstarter.com

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20...nster-battling_rpg_thats_after_pokemons_crown

Another Pokemon (though also very Yokai Watch) challenger has entered the arena. Between this and TemTem, I would say there is enough coming out to get your Pokemon fix if you're not happy with the current gen.

Personally liking the BotW style open world (and I kinda prefer the creature design to TemTem), should be interesting to see where this one goes.

EDIT: Has reached it's goal

Features art by:

https://www.picuki.com/profile/donpablo_fkmn

https://www.picuki.com/profile/trainer_matz

Kalentan · Jan 29, 2020

Echoing the comments I saw on /r/games yesterday...

$50k for an open world game (which demands lots of variety) seems incredibly low and I'd be very very wary of this.

unicornKnight · Jan 29, 2020

Yeah... no

Hope the best to the team but 50.000 for a 3d open world mmo? And it looks like a very early prototype which is understandable but not a good way to sell your idea.

Yuntu · Jan 29, 2020

Can only agree with the comments here, 50k for such a project just seems unfeasible.

The footage shown also doesnt inspire confidence to me. TemTem looked solid from the start (outside of designs, never really digged those) and like the devs could get there (which turned out to be the case).

SlightlyLive · Jan 29, 2020

JakeNoseIt · Jan 29, 2020

I do like the inclusion of real time combat. Always wanted to see Pokemon try something like that in a spin-off that didn't exclude the RPG stuff like Pokken did

Kalentan · Jan 29, 2020

SlightlyLive said:

Yeah I don't get how they could fund over 3 years of development off of $50k.

Also 2 years between the Alpha Combat Arena and Beta Combat Arena? Holy shit.

Like maybe I'm just not as well versed in this stuff as I should be but that seems like way too long of a gap. Doubly so since it's not even the open world, just the combat arena.

Xypher · Jan 29, 2020

Yeah gonna echo the sentiment about their goal being unrealistic, they plan to ship the game 3 years from now and have a team of 16 developers, if they only make it to 50k that would mean that every team member would get payed about 3k over the course of 3 years, unless they already have some backing (no mentions of that) or plan to release the game in early access to generate income (also not on the road map).

Mushlikeahusky · Jan 29, 2020

I don't love the art style but the vibe and tone is awesome and some good ideas in there.needs a lot of work to be a viable product though

SchroDingerzat · Jan 29, 2020

It does look early days I agree. But it's interesting how this one has gone with the Pokemon concept. The creature design is very Fakemon (art style is very reminiscent, where I would argue TemTem is very much it's own thing) but the world and battling system seems very different to Pokemon (where TemTem is very much reminiscent of Pokemon).

I wish them all the best anyway, and I think there is more then enough room for a few different games inspired by Pokemon.

KernelC · Jan 29, 2020

Kalentan said:
Echoing the comments I saw on /r/games yesterday...

$50k for an open world game (which demands lots of variety) seems incredibly low and I'd very very wary of this.

yeah, isnt 50K basically the cost of a very small indie title?

FormatCompatible · Jan 29, 2020

Yeah, that's never coming out is it?

DrROBschiz · Jan 29, 2020

Looks very rough

I would have spent more time building a more compelling slice of gameplay concept before launching a kickstarter honestly

After watching the video I was instantly a hard pass

Kalentan · Jan 29, 2020

KernelC said:
yeah, isnt 50K basically the cost of a very small indie title?

https://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/Mic...to_Setup_a_Gaming_Company_and_Make_a_Game.php

These days, I hire people to do the work on a freelance basis and it brings the cost of a small indie app or game to anywhere from $20,000 to $250,000, with the higher-end projects being funded by people other than myself (friends, crowdfunding, grants).

If you go on any crowdfunding site you'll see optimistic people saying that they need $10,000 or less to create a game, even though they will have no involvement in the actual programming or design. They naively think that they will only need a couple hundred hours work, that everything will go smoothly and that they can successfully market it for free.

But think of it this way, even the smallest projects take 6 months to a year, and in that time you are paying the wages of skilled programmers and designers. Even if you have just two team members working full-time for three months, that could cost you $30,000 to $40,000 in wages alone.

$50K might be something if you're like... doing it all yourself but with a team of 16? Unless they got some serious backing outside of Kickstarter, then this is a fools dream.

wwm0nkey · Jan 29, 2020

SlightlyLive said:

I mean shockingly 2023 is probably a good estimate for potential release......but no way in hell is $50k going to fund 3 years of dev time.

Serene · Jan 29, 2020

yeah this doesn't seem like a thing that's gonna happen

ILikeFeet · Jan 29, 2020

KernelC said:
yeah, isnt 50K basically the cost of a very small indie title?

extreme emphasis on "small". like a one-person, after-work game

Slamtastic · Jan 29, 2020

Combat gives it a hard pass from me.

piratepwnsninja · Jan 29, 2020

50k, 16 devs listed. Raises a number of red flags with me.

I KILL PXLS · Jan 29, 2020

The combat makes me more interested than I normally would be as a non-Pokemon fan but I wish it wasn't so stark and desaturated visually. I feel like they're going for a more serious tone, but it's at odds with the character/monster designs.

KernelC · Jan 29, 2020

Kalentan said:
https://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/Mic...to_Setup_a_Gaming_Company_and_Make_a_Game.php
$50K might be something if you're like... doing it all yourself but with a team of 16? Unless they got some serious backing outside of Kickstarter, then this is a fools dream.

ILikeFeet said:
extreme emphasis on "small". like a one-person, after-work game

Yeah, but I really wish there were more documented cases of the costs of released indie titles

desu · Jan 29, 2020

Damn, that's a lot of red flags :s.

Garlic · Jan 29, 2020

KernelC said:
Yeah, but I really wish there were more documented cases of the costs of released indie titles

Shovel Knight raised $300K on Kickstarter, with a team of half a dozen veteran game devs, the game came out slightly over a year later, and they still were still significantly overbudget, to give a comparison.

KernelC · Jan 29, 2020

Garlic said:
Shovel Knight raised $300K on Kickstarter, with a team of half a dozen veteran game devs, the game came out slightly over a year later, and they still were still significantly overbudget, to give a comparison.

However, it is very safe to assume no game uses only its Kickstarter money, although it gives a rough idea, its not very precise

TheKeyPit · Jan 29, 2020

SchroDingerzat said:
Between this and TemTem, I would say there is enough coming out to get your Pokemon fix if you're not happy with the current gen.

Not even close.

JDSN · Jan 29, 2020

Yeah, this isnt happening.

Duffking · Jan 29, 2020

Garlic said:
Shovel Knight raised $300K on Kickstarter, with a team of half a dozen veteran game devs, the game came out slightly over a year later, and they still were still significantly overbudget, to give a comparison.

And also they crunched like fuck to get it done.

Ananke · Jan 29, 2020

This looks pretty interesting and resembles an idea that I had of the Poke'mon game transitioning into a more open-world, seamless, and real-time combat experience. I really like the sense of risk and loss that the game seems to evoke from such a short trailer. I wish this idea was something that had AAA support behind it, and picked up the mantle of Folklore on PS3.

ANDS · Jan 29, 2020

The gameplay looked fine; the art style looks a bit too flat though.

elLOaSTy · Jan 29, 2020

Reminds me of Pokémon Generations.

I appreciate the fact that you play as the monsters because it means this is really trying to offer something unique that Pokémon does not.

Azerth · Jan 29, 2020

i wont back it but if it ever comes out ill probably buy it

garion333 · Jan 29, 2020

unicornKnight said:
Yeah... no

Hope the best to the team but 50.000 for a 3d open world mmo? And it looks like a very early prototype which is understandable but not a good way to sell your idea.

It's not an MMO

unicornKnight · Jan 29, 2020

garion333 said:
It's not an MMO

My reading capabilities getting better and better.

CrunchyFrog · Jan 29, 2020

SlightlyLive said:

Hot dog I don't know why these people are releasing a video game. If they've figured out how to budget 16 people full time for 3.5 years on only $50k they oughtta be doing a book tour.

I'd recommend not backing this, it's got typical indie scope creep and mismanagement written all over it.

Deleted member 51691 · Jan 29, 2020

This seems like another overly ambitious Kickstarter pitch that I'm not confident these developers can actually bring to fruition.

SchroDingerzat · Jan 29, 2020

TheKeyPit said:
Not even close.

So not a fan of TemTem either? Well if your unhappy with the current gen but don't like TemTem (or this game if it ever comes out), then personally I don't think there are many games that scratch that itch accept Digimon I guess? (Though tbh the Digimon games are great and have grown into something far better).

TheKeyPit · Jan 30, 2020

I

SchroDingerzat said:
So not a fan of TemTem either? Well if your unhappy with the current gen but don't like TemTem (or this game if it ever comes out), then personally I don't think there are many games that scratch that itch accept Digimon I guess? (Though tbh the Digimon games are great and have grown into something far better).

I backed Temtem on Kickstarter and that one is currently in Early Access on PC. Console release is still far away.

Digimon games? This gen? On Xbox, where?

SchroDingerzat · Feb 3, 2020

So this game has reached it's goal.

Also if people are curious here are the artists:

https://www.picuki.com/profile/donpablo_fkmn

https://www.picuki.com/profile/trainer_matz

SchroDingerzat · Feb 12, 2020

TheKeyPit said:
I

I backed Temtem on Kickstarter and that one is currently in Early Access on PC. Console release is still far away.

Digimon games? This gen? On Xbox, where?

Didn't see you mention Xbox originally, but there have been plenty of Digimon games on PS4.

Anyway.

Platinum games have pushed Kindred Fates on their last update:

Update 8: Wonderful Wednesday: The Design of Wonder-Red · The Wonderful 101: Remastered

Hey everyone! It's that time again. We've got a lot to talk about, so let's get into it! First off, a behind-the-scenes look at the design of Wonder-Red from Kamiya-san himself. Design Decisions It was a lot of work to come up with 100 different ideas for how each of the Wonderful 100 would...

www.kickstarter.com

TDLink · Feb 15, 2020

Just wanted to say, huge supporter of TW101 and saw they plugged this game. Even though it very much looks like something that could never come out/the money could be for nothing... I'm taking the gamble with $30. This looks like a sort of dream Pokemon-style game (albeit rough, though I understand it is early days), and Platinum, at least, has enough faith in it (for some reason). So I'm glad to support this. It's cool that it is coming to Switch too.

EDIT: Is OP one of the devs?

werezompire · Feb 15, 2020

From the FAQ section:

If you reach the Nintendo Switch Release stretch goal, can I get my copy of the game for Switch instead of PC?
Yes! We will send out a survey after the end of our campaign, and if we've reached this goal then we will give you the option to receive your copy of the game on either PC or Switch.

Unless they've made a deal with Nintendo (and it really doesn't sound like they've talked to anyone from Nintendo), this is naïve. As far as I know, nobody but Steam and maybe some of the other PC storefronts will let you generate codes for free. Best case scenario is that Nintendo will let the developer purchase Switch codes at the wholesale price, meaning that this Kickstarter is an expensive loan that they're going to have to pay back later (unlike most Kickstarters which are more like preorders). Worst case scenario is that Nintendo will give them a small amount of review codes which won't be enough for Kickstarter demand and they're going to have a lot of very angry backers if this game ever comes out.

Chances are they won't be able to self-publish on Switch in the first place since they're not an established publisher so they're going to have to get a publisher if they're going to release on Switch that. Plus, 3.5 years is a long time and making platform promises that far in advance is risky since it locks in your plans. Take it from somebody who knows and spent a lot of time on a Vita port that came out in 2018.

$50k isn't really enough to cover 3.5 years of development even if it was a solo project and with over a dozen team members, it's not like they should need to outsource content creation, so this really feels like another one of those idealistic projects that it's going to never get released.

TheZynster · Feb 15, 2020

I really like that art style though.....

TDLink · Feb 15, 2020

werezompire said:
From the FAQ section:

Unless they've made a deal with Nintendo (and it really doesn't sound like they've talked to anyone from Nintendo), this is naïve. As far as I know, nobody but Steam and maybe some of the other PC storefronts will let you generate codes for free. Best case scenario is that Nintendo will let the developer purchase Switch codes at the wholesale price, meaning that this Kickstarter is an expensive loan that they're going to have to pay back later (unlike most Kickstarters which are more like preorders). Worst case scenario is that Nintendo will give them a small amount of review codes which won't be enough for Kickstarter demand and they're going to have a lot of very angry backers if this game ever comes out.

Chances are they won't be able to self-publish on Switch in the first place since they're not an established publisher so they're going to have to get a publisher if they're going to release on Switch that. Plus, 3.5 years is a long time and making platform promises that far in advance is risky since it locks in your plans. Take it from somebody who knows and spent a lot of time on a Vita port that came out in 2018.

$50k isn't really enough to cover 3.5 years of development even if it was a solo project and with over a dozen team members, it's not like they should need to outsource content creation, so this really feels like another one of those idealistic projects that it's going to never get released.

Offering whichever version the backer wants at release (provided stretch goals have been met) is a standard thing with every single kickstarter I've ever seen. Most kickstarters aren't like preorders either. At least not the ones I've backed that have released like Hollow Knight or Indivisible.

SchroDingerzat · Feb 15, 2020

TDLink said:
EDIT: Is OP one of the devs?

Nope.

Just wanted to support them.

Jakenbakin · Feb 15, 2020

The game looks okay but it's absolutely insane they don't acknowledge the funding situation. 3 years of development, for (I think) 17 people? I mean, uh... I don't know how anyone had enough confidence to give them money when they don't seem to talk about it.

TDLink · Feb 15, 2020

Jakenbakin said:
The game looks okay but it's absolutely insane they don't acknowledge the funding situation. 3 years of development, for (I think) 17 people? I mean, uh... I don't know how anyone had enough confidence to give them money when they don't seem to talk about it.

There's clearly already a prototype/work that has been done. Kickstarters are rarely 100% the source of funding for any game. There have been plenty of other successful indie kickstarters with similar goals. Hollow Knight had a 35k goal, for example.

Tiggleton · Feb 15, 2020

werezompire said:
From the FAQ section:

Unless they've made a deal with Nintendo (and it really doesn't sound like they've talked to anyone from Nintendo), this is naïve. As far as I know, nobody but Steam and maybe some of the other PC storefronts will let you generate codes for free. Best case scenario is that Nintendo will let the developer purchase Switch codes at the wholesale price, meaning that this Kickstarter is an expensive loan that they're going to have to pay back later (unlike most Kickstarters which are more like preorders). Worst case scenario is that Nintendo will give them a small amount of review codes which won't be enough for Kickstarter demand and they're going to have a lot of very angry backers if this game ever comes out.

Chances are they won't be able to self-publish on Switch in the first place since they're not an established publisher so they're going to have to get a publisher if they're going to release on Switch that. Plus, 3.5 years is a long time and making platform promises that far in advance is risky since it locks in your plans. Take it from somebody who knows and spent a lot of time on a Vita port that came out in 2018.

$50k isn't really enough to cover 3.5 years of development even if it was a solo project and with over a dozen team members, it's not like they should need to outsource content creation, so this really feels like another one of those idealistic projects that it's going to never get released.

Fascinating insight from an actual experienced kickstarter dev person. Never knew Nintendo makes you pay for codes. At most I thought you'd have to pay Nintendo's cut of the rrp per code.

I guess the developers are hoping to cut a publishing deal after they hit the goal.

Jakenbakin · Feb 15, 2020

TDLink said:
There's clearly already a prototype/work that has been done. Kickstarters are rarely 100% the source of funding for any game. There have been plenty of other successful indie kickstarters with similar goals. Hollow Knight had a 35k goal, for example.

The work that has been done is frankly very, very little. At least visually what I see from the trailer suggests it is not very substantial. Team Cherry had 3 people compared to 17, and their game looked to have substantially more groundwork laid out from the beginning.

I'm not ragging, by the way. I think the game looks neat (it gives me Jade Cocoon vibes which is awesome). I just wouldn't give my money to them at this stage without a demonstrable plan for how to get the money requested to last the length of development, and if the answer is an outside financier or publisher, that's great - but they don't mention it at all, which is weird to me. It would've been weird to me on Hollow Knights Kickstarter too, if I'd been aware or interested at the time. On a site asking for crowdfunding I don't know how fiscal responsibility can't be mentioned on like every single project. They're asking for money, they should be upfront with how they'll use it to deliver.

TDLink · Feb 15, 2020

Jakenbakin said:
The work that has been done is frankly very, very little. At least visually what I see from the trailer suggests it is not very substantial. Team Cherry had 3 people compared to 17, and their game looked to have substantially more groundwork laid out from the beginning.

I'm not ragging, by the way. I think the game looks neat (it gives me Jade Cocoon vibes which is awesome). I just wouldn't give my money to them at this stage without a demonstrable plan for how to get the money requested to last the length of development, and if the answer is an outside financier or publisher, that's great - but they don't mention it at all, which is weird to me. It would've been weird to me on Hollow Knights Kickstarter too, if I'd been aware or interested at the time. On a site asking for crowdfunding I don't know how fiscal responsibility can't be mentioned on like every single project. They're asking for money, they should be upfront with how they'll use it to deliver.

There's other examples. Hat in Time had like a 30k goal. Hyper Light Drifter was 27k. Blasphemous had 50k. Night in the Woods was 50k. Shovel Knight was 75k. TemTem was 75k. Heck, Outer Wild was (while more, still lower than the current funding for this) 125k.

Now, this is just a smattering of a few of the "bigger" (in terms of reception) successful kickstarters from years past. But the point is this level of funding was not out of the norm for any of those. Or many others. Small team indie kickstarters are not the same as established developer kickstarters like Shenmue's or Bloodstained's or W101's even.

Again, no telling that this kickstarter will be successful at all. Maybe it will never materialize. That is sort of the whole thing with kickstarter. But from where I'm sitting it is just as promising as any of those I mentioned above... and they all turned out pretty well. They're being pretty up front that this thing is going to take a while, ie, there is a lot of work to do from here.

werezompire · Feb 15, 2020

Fascinating insight from an actual experienced kickstarter dev person. Never knew Nintendo makes you pay for codes. At most I thought you'd have to pay Nintendo's cut of the rrp per code.

I don't know that Nintendo makes you pay for extra codes. Last I heard, none of the platform holders will give away extra free codes (beyond a small number to be used for review purposes) to developers without prior agreements in place. We got a number of PSN codes from Sony for our kickstarter, but that was an anomaly and it was something we set up with them before the kickstarter began as part of our timed exclusivity deal.

TDLink said:
There's other examples. Hat in Time had like a 30k goal. Hyper Light Drifter was 27k. Blasphemous had 50k. Night in the Woods was 50k. Shovel Knight was 75k. TemTem was 75k. Heck, Outer Wild was (while more, still lower than the current funding for this) 125k.

Every single Kickstarter campaign you listed came out after their estimate release date, usually drastically after their estimated release date. Also, many of them could have easily turned into disasters. For example, Shovel Knight got drastically more than their goal and they were still heavily in debt by the time the game came out - if the game hadn't been such a big success, that could have destroyed the entire team.

This kickstarter has a lot of warning signs. The large team size with the low funding goal, ambitious goal (3D open-world game), and the distant estimated release date (plus they quoted that increasingly out-of-date Miyamoto line about delays) are all big red flags when combined together like this. The combat they've shown off in videos so far looks very basic. Also, the timeline they have posted doesn't inspire confidence.

Kindred Fates kickstarter announced - An Open World Monster Battling RPG

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