• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
  • We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.
Status
Not open for further replies.

krazen

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,157
Gentrified Brooklyn
There's layers to this one. The first being can I say how wild it is, even if it falters in the process, to have a song from a massive and influential rap artist where its entire basis is in trans acceptance and acknowledgement of a person's own transphobic misgivings. To openly lay any criticism at their own feet for their prejudice instead of seeking to absolve it through the actions of the other. I didn't know what to expect from a new Kendrick album but a track talking about trans relatives that's critical of everyone who was transphobic to them, including himself, wasn't one of them. That this might make a few people pause and reflect on how they're treating trans people they know is a positive.

That said, if we're discussing it, the execution is messy. Not least in the use of the f-slur. In the original line I can understand why it's there. Does it need to be? Not really – you could use alternatives and get the point across – but within the story the song is telling, and it being critical of it, then I can at least understand how it found its way there. Does it risk ignorant people using this song as a means to shout "faggot" out loud without thinking to the context? Yep. Which isn't great. It's also muddied as he goes on to say "I said them F-bombs, I ain't know any better" recognising that it's something he shouldn't use any more, but at that point it's been said three times again for no real reason.

The whole song closes with...


...and it's odd. You could easily write the verse without saying faggot again three times, for the third time. Yet at the end of the journey and the climax of this song about realisation and understanding he's still using it. It's a missed opportunity to marry the end of the story with his present-day understanding. Showing the progression and appreciation of the final point being made.

The misgendering bounces back and forth between 'he' and 'she' through the song with no real consistency to the timeline. Which is easy to at least understand; he's emphasising the struggle he had in recognising his Uncle's identity, and those others had around Mary-Ann's. Similar to the above I think it's overplayed more than it needs to and, dare I say it, writing that was a bit more clever could have circumvented the need to reiterate it over and over but fundamentally I'm not spitting teeth over it. The dead-naming feels gratuitous though, especially when extended beyond his family.

Really though, the underlying theme is that he loves both family members for who they are and that was the consistent thread in his experience of their transitions. It isn't said begrudgingly either. His understanding and progression is in appreciating how the actions of others made those relatives feel, rather than lamenting the loss of any former identity. This is not some 'trans widow' take, he's proud of who they became. He even finds the confidence to stand up for his cousin against prejudice in church:



Now perhaps this is more of an indictment of just how rare it is to see this sentiment both in and out of rap, but despite it's faults it's one where the counterbalance weighs in favour of the positive for me. That doesn't negate the points made earlier, and I don't think being critical of those elements makes him an enemy. Nor is it worth lamenting media literacy being dead just because some people don't want to stomach a cishet guy saying 'faggot' 10 times in the space of 5 minutes. It's clear to me that some more thought to the writing could have presented the same message to the same audience, while avoiding these trappings.

What we are left with though, is a song on Kendrick's latest album talking about trans members of his family and how much he loves them. About how they've been mistreated, and how it's worth standing up in the face of prejudice towards them. That's something I didn't expect to be able to say this time last week. I'm pretty happy to have that.

Thanks for this. Rap is one of my fav's but its hard a consistent issue with at homophobia and transphobia since lots of the themes revolve around 'masculinity'. Shit lots of favs (some who've admitted their mistakes, some who I am pretty sure are shitheels and it makes it hard to listen)

Damn, OP didn't even try to put the song within context.

bye came in with the "Is this your gay bashing King?!!?" and bounced. Kendrick needs to do much better but I came in here expecting a prob Conversion Therapy song
 

Spinluck

▲ Legend ▲
Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
28,480
Chicago
In the context of the art it isn't homophobic.

The story is pretty much one of growth. Hip hop is still pretty homophobic and transphobic so I like the intention. Reminds me a lil bit of Hov rapping about his mom coming out as lesbian. You just wouldn't have heard that back in the day.

But for some reason just hearing that word makes me cringe. It just doesn't sound good on the track but I'm pretty sure that's what he was going for.
 

Jebusman

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,087
Halifax, NS
"Saying 'x' is okay as long as you argue/concede it's bad to do so" is a pretty tight line to walk. You can argue the intent was positive given the full song, but I feel like most times the end result is still going to be the normalization of doing/saying 'x' because people aren't going to care about the context it was said in, they just hear it being said out loud and figure they'll be able to say it too.

Appreciate the attempt, probably could've been executed better.
 

Wispmetas

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
6,546
OP it is legitimate to discuss the use of the word, but framing this as a "rampant display of homophobia" on this specific song isn't doing you any favors.
 

Small Red Boy

▲ Legend ▲
Member
May 9, 2019
2,678
I mean, from that extract, using that word in that context isn't bad in my opinion. He isn't calling anyone that he is just saying that he and kids used to use it becase they didn't know any better. The problem is him repeteadly misgendering his uncle, imo. But I'll have to listen to the whole song, I didn't have a chance yet.
 

Hu3

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,587
Man this op is disingenuous as hell, yes we should dissect the song and critique it, but this op couldn't be more blatant and made in more bad faith.
 

Kyuuji

The Favonius Fox
Member
Nov 8, 2017
32,217
Coming in just to whine about cancel culture while ignoring the actual discussion going on in the thread is just as annoying as the half-baked OP.
 

Fatoy

Member
Mar 13, 2019
7,228
I have listened to the song, and I'm of the opinion that its very clear message of support for trans people could have been conveyed just as well without using the word. I don't think it's necessary to get the point across.

I also think it's pretty evident that the song is specifically about tolerance as well as being candid about the journey it takes some people - because of the cultures they're raised in - to get there. By no measure is it a homophobic or anti-trans song when the entire lyrical content is taken into account.
 

Surakian

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
10,872
The song is a commentary on ignorance and a journey of learning and understanding. It's okay to use it in this context.
 

Uzzy

Gabe’s little helper
Member
Oct 25, 2017
27,206
Hull, UK
I was going to comment when I saw that Kyuuji had said pretty much everything I wanted to say, so no point repeating her.

I would simply add that Kendrik's use of the f-word in this song is very different to how it's used in something like, lets say, Fairytale of New York, which you will hear blasted out every Christmas without fail, with hordes of people gleefully taking the opportunity to sing it out. I don't think anyone's going to be singing Auntie Diaries.
 

GetLuffy

Alt-Account
Banned
Apr 19, 2022
219
If you didn't pay attention to the message you're going to miss the whole point of the album. Especially isolating a lyric on a song exploring acceptance and understanding of two different people going through the trans experience and lamenting on the mindset of their choice affecting Kendirck.

I thought more people would be offended Kodak is featured so heavy to be honest, not the get over your transphobia song.
 

Hu3

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,587
Coming in just to whine about cancel culture while ignoring the actual discussion going on in the thread is just as annoying as the half-baked OP.

The op should have been made with more tact, clearly the op didn't even listen to the song to rush and make a thread with cherry picked lines, of a song that clearly a rollercoaster of emotions and strong ones at that, the song starts on one point and ends in a totally different note, yes the song has very strong wording and it should be criticized for it, but clearly the artist is trying to deliver a message here and I don't think is a bad one.

The post you made earlier has more nuance, is better constructed and more well put that the entirety of the op and title of the tread. This subject is very delicate to a lot of folk in here, so I think the op should have structured it better.
 

Brinbe

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
58,366
Terana
I think it's a pretty beautiful song and you really need to sit down and listen to it because he's coming from a honest and ultimately accepting place with it. The humanity/acceptance over religion theme really hits hard imo. As well as delving into aspects of his personal growth/journey as a person. Which I think mirrors a lot of people who are around his age.

I think it's also very fair to take issue with some of what he says in the song and if he could've got his point across without using the actual slurs or deadnaming and all that. He's stomping over his point a bit, I get that.

If a white or Asian did the same sort of song except they said the N-Word a bunch of times, some people would take issue with that too even if the message was ultimately positive.

But everyone's tolerance for that stuff is understandably different.

I just want people to give it a honest listen before rushing in saying he's this or that.
 
Sep 2, 2018
878
Click-baitey OP aside, this is the exact conversation that Kendrick probably wanted. Good for him for starting some important dialogue these days
 

Evo Shandor

Member
Oct 29, 2017
479
Having listened to the song, I get the intent and the context. The overall message and intention is positive but the delivery is a little lacking.

I can't come at this from the perspective of an LGBQT+ person so the closest personal parallel I can make is someone who is part Jewish looking at art about antisemitism. I've experienced a lot of antisemitism. If the message is positive and about antisemitism being bad, am I to be offended everytime an antisemitic slur is used in that art? Context is important in understanding its use.

That doesn't mean I don't think some art has the right intention and uses hurtful terms too much simply for shock value when there could be a better or more tasteful way to get the point across in the art.
 

Dabanton

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,913
I listened to the song yesterday and could already see how some people would frame it without taking the song in its proper context.
 

Lobster Roll

signature-less, now and forever
Member
Sep 24, 2019
34,380
The context of this particular song is different, but this reminds me of Dire Straits' "Money for Nothing" where they typically leave the word uncensored on the radio. The lyrics for the song were taken directly from two appliance store employees that Mark Knopfler saw watching MTV on the store's display TVs and mocking the changes in the industry and how male artists were presenting themselves at the time. The song itself, obviously, is mocking these types of men who looked down upon people who make music and who insult their appearance, their profession, and the creation of music itself while also being concerned that they needed to move the appliances (their way of making money). The use of their verbatim language highlights their ignorance.

It's extremely jarring to hear the word uncensored in music, especially if you're hearing it in present day, but like all things, context is important.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.