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Zen

The Wise Ones
Member
Nov 1, 2017
9,658
Via a Vanity Fair interview

raya-and-namaari-relationship-1-1614992260120.webp


Tran told Vanity Fair that when recording her role for the animated film she decided there were "some romantic feelings going on there" between Raya and Namaari. But though Raya, like Moana and Elsa before her, is a Disney princess who isn't saddled with a male love interest in the film, Raya and the Last Dragon is the latest Disney offering to stop short of presenting a major character as explicitly queer. But for the company that started touting its "exclusively gay moments" a few years back, and whose characters have long been embraced by queer communities, Raya has felt for many like one step closer to the surface.

"I think if you're a person watching this movie and you see representation in a way that feels really real and authentic to you, then it is real and authentic," Tran says. "I think it might get me in trouble for saying that, but whatever."

For decades queer readers and audience members have had to rely on this kind of subtle nod to find themselves in stories. "As an animation fan, I grew up saturated with queer-coded villains, and when I had no canonically queer or gender expansive characters to enjoy I found myself relating to aliens, shapeshifters and mutants," [Rebecca] Sugar (of Adventure Time) says. "My love for queer-coded villains and monsters is bittersweet and complex. And I love to see LGBTQIA+ artists express and navigate their relationship to these tropes in their art."

This practice of queer-baiting, seen most recently and publicly in the end of the long-running TV series Supernatural or the hubbub around Finn and Poe in The Rise of Skywalker, has become increasingly intolerable among queer audiences who finally have other stories that will offer representation without the bait and switch.

For the queer princess diehards, though, Kelly Marie Tran is in their corner. "I want to live in a world where every single type of person can see themselves in a movie like this," she says. "There's a lot of work to be done in that respect. I'd love to see a Disney warrior who—I don't know, can I say this without getting in trouble? I don't care—is openly in the LGBTQ community. I would love to see representation in terms of someone who maybe isn't able-bodied. And I'm hopeful. We'll see."

I definitely see them in that context. KMT is a treasure. Disneyfy me if old.
 

dglavimans

Member
Nov 13, 2019
7,652
I just wish Disney said it for once and I am also a little surprised that as far as I know it hasn't happened yet in a movie
 

shaneo632

Weekend Planner
Member
Oct 29, 2017
29,008
Wrexham, Wales
But I need it *in* the movie. Not "the cast think it's gay." Not whispered innuendo. Not a "gay moment" out of focus in the background. Disney needs to do better than making the LGBTQ+ crowd search for scraps.

That said I didn't notice a gay vibe at all between Raya and Namaari when I watched it the other day.
 

John Harker

Knows things...
Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,358
Santa Destroy
I thought it previous obvious watching the film the two female leads had a connection. When they were younger, the scenes in particular felt like early awkward crush tension/gift giving/exploratory
 

DrForester

Mod of the Year 2006
Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,696
Shippers going to ship her with the psycho who stabbed her in the back and litterally brought down the apocalypse.

and killed her cool dragon friend.
 

SunBroDave

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,156
"I think if you're a person watching this movie and you see representation in a way that feels really real and authentic to you, then it is real and authentic," Tran says. "I think it might get me in trouble for saying that, but whatever."
Hell yeah
 

Cross-Section

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,874
Yep, this look doesn't lie

screenshot2021-03-08026j3h.jpg


If they end up doing a sequel or show, hopefully they can just be open about it instead of just heavily, heavily implying it
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,414
So I was watching the Double Toasted review and they mentioned that a lot of the car are female. I thought that was cool and had a silly thought about how I'll be seeing lots of shippy fanart in a few weeks. 😛
 

Timelord19

One Winged Slayer
Member
Aug 21, 2018
1,479
Mallorca, Spain
So a JK Rowling?

-This character is gay.
-It is shown somewhere?
-No.

This is just trying to win representation points without doing nothing.
 

Metallix87

User Requested Self-Ban
Banned
Nov 1, 2017
10,533
I dislike the way the article presents it that, if a female character doesn't have a male love interest in a film, they are "short of being presented as queer". That said, I'd love for Disney execs to comment on this, and tackle the subject in a sequel.
 

HStallion

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
62,262
I dislike the way the article presents it that, if a female character doesn't have a male love interest in a film, they are "short of being presented as queer". That said, I'd love for Disney execs to comment on this, and tackle the subject in a sequel.

Disney exec: Sure whatever you want to believe. Just don't mention it in certain markets.
 

Jedi2016

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,669
" I don't know, can I say this without getting in trouble?" - That's the problem right there, no matter how "inclusive" Disney tries to be.
 

BadWolf

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
12,148
There was no romance for Raya in the movie and no vibe.

People can personally interpret it in any way they like but it won't be based on what's in the movie.
 

Godfather

Game on motherfuckers
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
3,492
I want them to be gay, but nothing in the movie itself seemed to indicate they were anything more than just bonded frenemies.

On the other hand, neither princess had anything close to a male love interest either. In fact, I can only think of 2 adult men with multiple lines? One is a sidekick and one is the protagonist's father.

Good fuckin movie for asian's and women's representation.
 
OP
OP
Zen

Zen

The Wise Ones
Member
Nov 1, 2017
9,658
So a JK Rowling?

-This character is gay.
-It is shown somewhere?
-No.

This is just trying to win representation points without doing nothing.
This seems to be KMT just giving her opinions, so I wouldn't pin this as Disney trying to say anything.

" I don't know, can I say this without getting in trouble?" - That's the problem right there, no matter how "inclusive" Disney tries to be.
"I don't care" seems to be her take on what she's allowed to say with regards to this
 

Chucker

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,331
Maryland
Other than familial love for the characters, Raya and her father, Namaari trying to prove herself to her mother I didn't catch ANY vibes and certainly not romance in the movie the three times I saw it over the weekend with the kids. It's a good movie, I'm all for it if they want to present it in the movie, but it just wasn't there.

The credits had some scenes of ALL of the characters enjoying meals and each other but that was about the long and short of it.
 

Dwebble

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,626
I kind of am yeah. Still believe and hope one day money doesn't win and someone with the reach of Disney does it
Money is always going to win. Gay representation in a mainstream Disney film is only going to happen when the beancounters decide that they'll make more money by doing it than they lose, and apparently we're not there yet.
 

Lump

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,025
Disney hasn't even embraced the "Korra/Asami hold hands in the final 0.8 seconds of the feature" stage yet. Maybe by 2040 they'll have more than the most modest amount of wink-wink-nudge-nudge LBGTQ+ representation in one of their princess films.
 

Tavernade

Tavernade
Moderator
Sep 18, 2018
8,630
I definitely got that vibe from the two of them during my first watch, less so during the second. Hopefully it does well enough they can do some sort of sequel or show to just outright say it. I'm normally against hero/villain romances but I thought the way the conflict was handled was really good and it would actually make sense if part of the hatred they have for one another is that they finally had a friend they either had to betray or betrayed them.


The whole Blue Sky situation sucks. From what I understand, though, Disney had intended to keep them open as long as possible, but was losing too much money elsewhere to justify it anymore. But, like, with Disneyland about to reopen they clearly could have held out for longer.
 

Izzard

Banned
Sep 21, 2018
4,606
If you say Disney and gay in the same sentence enough times people will believe Disney actually care about gay characters in their media.... and there won't be any need to actually do it.
 

Jedi2016

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,669
"I don't care" seems to be her take on what she's allowed to say with regards to this
Oh, I know. It's not her reaction I'm criticizing, it's the atmosphere that Disney creates that makes actors wary of talking about it. Inclusivity being all well and good until it starts to effect their bottom line. Same reason they're so afraid to make Elsa gay.
 

SunBroDave

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,156
Oh, I know. It's not her reaction I'm criticizing, it's the atmosphere that Disney creates that makes actors wary of talking about it. Inclusivity being all well and good until it starts to effect their bottom line. Same reason they're so afraid to make Elsa gay.
To be fair, they don't really know what to do with Elsa, like at all. Did you see Frozen 2? She goes on an adventure to find a singing iceberg.
 
OP
OP
Zen

Zen

The Wise Ones
Member
Nov 1, 2017
9,658
Especially with China being the key market.
This doesn't make sense to me. Raya and the Last Dragon is a movie drawing from Southeast Asian influences, not Chinese. But I understand the CCP has sway over what Disney gets to show in their movies. Even so, for a movie like this?
 

Tabaxi

Member
Nov 18, 2018
12,895
If only there was a word to express a type of situation where a character is coded as queer but then not depicted in the actual media.
 

RobotsAnger

Member
Oct 29, 2017
576
This sound a lot like the Valkyrie situation in Thor Ragnarok. Claims behind the scene without showing it on screen.
 

prophetvx

Member
Nov 28, 2017
5,331
I thought it was pretty obvious from their first interaction, from the immediate hand hold to overt fawning in their opening discussion. It's disappointing that it wasn't explicit but given the massive markets that have backwards views that Disney has to cater to, it's not at all surprising.
 

subpar spatula

Refuses to Wash his Ass
Member
Oct 26, 2017
22,128
Disney isn't going to release anything centered around LGBT as long as they have markets that actively recut the films to remove those portions. Disney is as complicit in these homophobic and bigoted actions as the countries are.
 

sibarraz

Prophet of Regret - One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
18,106
I'm excited to watch her kiss her girlfriend in one frame of the movie like Star Wars