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Jul 19, 2020
1,378
Rugby Warwickshire England
#KeepPrisonsSingleSex is something that is usually trending on Twitter and I wanted to know Era thoughts.

I think it orginates from the transphobic view that all/most Trans women are rapists, which is a disgusting view to have and shows you don't care about trans people.
Edit: I realised that the original title was really transphobic and I apologise for that.
 

The Gold Hawk

Member
Jan 30, 2019
4,515
Yorkshire
The UK is a fucking mess but the thing that I keep seeing this relate to, is that prison guard shitheads are basically claiming they feel "uncomfortable" when they forcibly strip search trans women prisoners. Not because they suddenly grew a conscience and became disgusted at the act of strip searching itself but because it is trans women who they are roughing up.

Basically this is being grabbed at by a bunch of ghoulish TERFS who I guarantee never once gave a single shit about the violence in the prison system. They are only suddenly getting invested because they realised they can harm trans women with it.
 
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Lobster Roll

signature-less, now and forever
Member
Sep 24, 2019
34,322
Imagine your mind is so twisted that the only form of prison reform you care about is one that is rooted in transphobia. I bet these same people don't give a shit about the systemically broken criminal justice system.
 

Joni

Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,508
It is transphobic. They don't care about the prisoners. If there was actual talk about mixed gender prisons, they wouldn't care.
 

julia crawford

Took the red AND the blue pills
Member
Oct 27, 2017
35,166
From https://kpssinfo.org/ (content warning, lots of transphobia)

Prison policy states that a male prisoner who identifies as transgender and who has a Gender Recognition Certificate must be allocated to the female estate. Conviction, offending history and anatomy are all irrelevant. A male who identifies as transgender, but who does not have a GRC, can apply to be transferred to a women's prison.

We believe that this is wrong and that no male prisoner should ever be housed in a women's prison. We believe that to house any male prisoner with women is a violation of the Article 3 rights of women in prison not be subjected to inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment. The single-sex exceptions in Equality Act (2010) permit all individuals of the male sex to be excluded from single-sex spaces and services for females where this is a proportionate means to a legitimate aim. We believe that women's prisons are a definitive example of a space that must be single-sex.

Openly transphobic.

I don't even want to quote some of the shit in this website.
 

Skade

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,851
Rapes already happen in single sex prisons anyway. Ladies prisons included. You don't need to have a penis forcing it's way into someone else's orifices to register as a rape.

So yeah, pure transphobic crap.
 
Oct 29, 2017
4,054
It is transphobic. They don't care about the prisoners. If there was actual talk about mixed gender prisons, they wouldn't care.
I think they would care about that. Part of how TERFs demonise trans women specifically is denying their identity as women and thus extrapolating and conflating that with the idea that men are unsafe to be around, dangerous, etc...

Its interesting, really, I've heard people making these comments before now who I know for a fact have never cared about the well-being of prisoners before.

In countries where its normalised that its okay to joke about men being raped in prison as though it were part of the 'punishment' or from general views that prisons are 'too nice these days', I wouldn't believe many of the people tweeting about this give two fucks about prisoners, other than making the transgender ones unsafe and vulnerable, which is absolutely deplorable.

Rapes already happen in single sex prisons anyway. Ladies prisons included. You don't need to have a penis forcing it's way into someone else's orifices to register as a rape.

So yeah, pure transphobic crap.
Ethically you're correct but I think legally in the UK it is indeed the case that the definition of rape is forcing your own penis into an orifice.
 

LewieP

Member
Oct 26, 2017
18,094
I wonder how many people tweeting about this have never once before tweeted anything regarding prison conditions etc.
 

waterpuppy

Too green for a tag
Member
Jul 17, 2021
1,818
Considering how trans women are treated in mens prisons, I don't even want to give this sort of thinking the energy tbh. Just TERFs and other transphobes jumping on any issue that can be twisted into fuel for "the evil trans are going after women!" machine.
 

Thordinson

Member
Aug 1, 2018
17,914
Fuck TERFs. Fuck the prison industrial complex. Abolish prisons.

None of these people actually care about those who are incarcerated and the conditions of the prisons they suffer in.
 

entremet

You wouldn't toast a NES cartridge
Member
Oct 26, 2017
60,004
What's up with the UK and this topic? Not the literal OP topic, but seems like a weird obsession with hurting the progress of the trans community there, one of the more maligned and oppressed groups around.
 

Deleted member 25606

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
8,973
This isn't new, it's just finally filtering into the mainstream. The community has been putiing up with these shit arguments for a minute now.
 
OP
OP
EddyZacianLand
Jul 19, 2020
1,378
Rugby Warwickshire England
What's up with the UK and this topic? Not the literal OP topic, but seems like a weird obsession with hurting the progress of the trans community there, one of the more maligned and oppressed groups around.
Because of disinformation spread by terfs like Rowling, many people in this country think all trans women are dangerous men who just want to rape women
 

sprsk

Resettlement Advisor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,450
Clicked the thread thinking what idiot wants to put women in mens prisons then I clicked the thread and was like "oh, of course it's a transphobic thing"
 

Razmos

Unshakeable One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 28, 2017
15,890
Had a brief look because I clearly hate myself and yep it's TERF central
Saw that one of them had tagged this guy and wondered why:

Looked at his profile and he's a professor of criminology who supposedly "promotes diversity, including ideological diversity of thought and view"
 

Platy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
27,644
Brazil
What's up with the UK and this topic? Not the literal OP topic, but seems like a weird obsession with hurting the progress of the trans community there, one of the more maligned and oppressed groups around.

UK has been particularly good with "but what about the other side" type of shitty impartiality which lead to things like

 

WildGoose

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,219
This hashtag, like most things the anti-trans campaigners are pushing, hasn't happened organically. It's manufactured outrage being pushed by a bunch of sockpuppet accounts and transphobes whose literal only purpose on social media is to be involved in spreading gross misinformation. https://twitter.com/doublehelix/status/1480501539072581632

Please don't signal boost this kind of shit.
 
OP
OP
EddyZacianLand
Jul 19, 2020
1,378
Rugby Warwickshire England
Oct 29, 2017
4,054
What's up with the UK and this topic? Not the literal OP topic, but seems like a weird obsession with hurting the progress of the trans community there, one of the more maligned and oppressed groups around.
It's mainly because of the high profile of a number of TERFs in the UK within media and twitter.

They are relatively small in terms of the amount of people that even know what the word TERF means, let alone actively are one, but their views are given a lot of credibility because they are already prominent members of the media or academics and as such get the 'benefit of the doubt' that they know what they're talking about. As such they normally get to spout their views in national press and spread their ideas quite far, albeit normally with clever language and sleights-of-hand. Then you slowly increase the rhetoric and make it more plain what your actually beliefs and intentions are, which is how we end up with articles like the BBC discussion about lesbians being pressured into sex with trans women that verge of the more 'mask off' side of this.

As for why these people tend to be British, I think its largely due to a difference in the evolution of feminism in the UK centre-left compared to America. Its an incredibly exclusive ideology that never really grappled with anything outside of the perspective of middle-class, white, university educated women and as such has quite a narrow view on the world and a whole host of issues.

In the eyes of some, they have successfully equated their views with 'feminism' and criticise any reaction to them as innately misogynistic, something that a lot of usually right-minded people seem all too eager to gobble up. It's basically a warped version of what would be something we all agree with; the protection of women. They don't feel like they're attacking vulnerable people, they feel like they're defending women and this is the crux of it and why some (usually) well-meaning people are quite easily brought into defending people like Rowling. Because if you don't know what they're really saying and you haven't been clued up on the issue, you just see a woman talking or writing about 'women's spaces' and getting 'attacked' for it.

For more general reading, this interview with Judith Butler is always a good read and addresses TERFs within feminism directly but doesn't directly address it as a 'UK' issue.
 

Razmos

Unshakeable One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 28, 2017
15,890
These people truly are awful, I saw someone with a blue checkmark showing support and had a look at their profile and they are someone who writes books on feminism and it was literally mask off straight away as I saw they had retweeted a tweet about how the trans actress who won a golden globe is a "man stealing opportunity's from women"

I kinda side eye anything feminism related these days due to how TERFs have poisoned the well so hard and it sucks. To someone not in the loop these people look official but then casually throw out hate speech, its insane
 

Azem

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,001
This is why I'm not a fan of the "FART" acronym. This is the "radical feminism" part - that men have a biological compulsion to harm women and affirming trans women is like throwing a lion amongst a herd of gazelles (i.e., cis women). Obviously vile towards trans women, and not particularly generous towards cis men, either. This is also why trans men tend to not get much air time in the panic - TERF ideology, from what I've heard, tends to believe that trans men are victims of male violence (direct or societal), and therefore not a threat.

It WAS pretty quaint... I think it's old second wave radfem stuff, the kind of thing that lead to the "man-hating feminist" stereotype. The old true believers, left behind by more contemporary feminist theory, found a new battleground and managed to resurrect their ideology and elevate it to levels of prominence they could have only dreamed of way back when.
 

greatgeek

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,811
This is especially outrageous because of the long history of trans prisoners being brutalized by cisgendered prisoners.
 

Kyuuji

The Favonius Fox
Member
Nov 8, 2017
32,047
..why would trans men be put with women?

Furthermore, why am I seeing a transphobic hashtag bumped on here for no other reason than 'thoughts pls'. What thoughts are there to give? It's a notion obviously rooted in bigotry and the belief that trans women are a danger to other women. It's not news, it's a shit manufactured issue pushed by the far right in their ongoing attempt to radicalise people by pushing the idea that trans women and cis women have incompatible rights.
 
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OP
EddyZacianLand
Jul 19, 2020
1,378
Rugby Warwickshire England
..why would trans men be put with women?

Furthermore, why am I seeing a transphobic hashtag on here for no other reason than 'thoughts pls'. What thoughts are there to give? It's a notion obviously rooted in bigotry and the belief that trans women are a danger to other women. It's not news, it's a shit manufactured issue pushed by the far right in their ongoing attempt to radicalise people by pushing the idea that trans women and cis women have incompatible rights.
I was asking just so if this view comes up I can have an argument to combat it with.
 

Vonocourt

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,621
..why would trans men be put with women?

Furthermore, why am I seeing a transphobic hashtag bumped on here for no other reason than 'thoughts pls'. What thoughts are there to give? It's a notion obviously rooted in bigotry and the belief that trans women are a danger to other women. It's not news, it's a shit manufactured issue pushed by the far right in their ongoing attempt to radicalise people by pushing the idea that trans women and cis women have incompatible rights.
.
 

Gentlemen

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,506
I was asking just so if this view comes up I can have an argument to combat it with.
I want to impress that this is the algorithm working at its worst. Twitter's engine prioritizes trends that cause outrage and anger and when you do enough digging you find out that half the people sharing it are asking 'why is this trending' and the other half are usually bad faith actors who value engagement no matter who it endangers. So there's really nothing to argue against here as it's more routine transphobia based on the same old hatred against the most vulnerable populations we have. Anybody who unironically argues this isn't going to have their minds changed about the appalling conditions that exist in prisons, let alone be an open mind to discuss trans issues.
 
OP
OP
EddyZacianLand
Jul 19, 2020
1,378
Rugby Warwickshire England
I want to impress that this is the algorithm working at its worst. Twitter's engine prioritizes trends that cause outrage and anger and when you do enough digging you find out that half the people sharing it are asking 'why is this trending' and the other half are usually bad faith actors who value engagement no matter who it endangers. So there's really nothing to argue against here as it's more routine transphobia based on the same old hatred against the most vulnerable populations we have. Anybody who unironically argues this isn't going to have their minds changed about the appalling conditions that exist in prisons, let alone be an open mind to discuss trans issues.
I meant if I encountered this in person, not just online.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,546
I was asking just so if this view comes up I can have an argument to combat it with.

Effectively, we're looking at yet another example of toxic gender essentialism being used as an excuse (a weapon, really) to minimize the experiences of the trans community and exclude transwomen.

The folks who believe this basically subscribe to a belief that one's originally-born gender is the only gender they can ever have and they can't escape from it. To them, transwomen are still men, and men are rapists, and so on and so forth. It's just a daisy chain of toxic transphobia and gender stereotyping, and pretty much exactly the same kind of argument JK Rowling makes about bathrooms and the like. Realistically, transwomen are subject to significantly more violence per capita than most other communities, rather than being the perpetrators of violence.

It's TERFtles all the way down.
 
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