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Kamiya says games are not art (NSFW)
- Thread starter OnanieBomb
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One can operate inside an art form and have various motives such as creating art, doing business or wanting to entertain people. Kamiya likes to provocate people with exacerbated opinions.
Oh the irony.
Oh the irony.
I kind of agree. There's a lot of art in games, but games aren't really art. They're games, and I'm always skeptical to consider the gameplay part "art." As Kojima says, games are like "a museum."
Ironically, one instance that I would consider gameplay artistic in some way is in MGS4, where the podcast is a meta "hints and tips" guide and also helps Snake relax. There are several statements in that.
Or maybe Spec Ops, where the gameplay is the narrative.
Ironically, one instance that I would consider gameplay artistic in some way is in MGS4, where the podcast is a meta "hints and tips" guide and also helps Snake relax. There are several statements in that.
Or maybe Spec Ops, where the gameplay is the narrative.
Art isn't consumed.
Take my comparison above as an example.
A proper "chef" who is putting work, imaginative effort, etc into producing "haute cuisine" versus me cracking open a box of Kraft Dinner.
They both involve combining ingredients, preparing along a specific set way for a specific result. Putting that result on a plate and eating it.
I am not a chef nor is Kraft Dinner "haute cuisine" even though they are 99% "the same" in broad context. That said, someone could take a box of Kraft Dinner and do something amazing with it and actually for real "elevate" it to "haute cuisine".
Words like "chef" and "art" and etc have specific meaning and simply blanket generalizations diminish from the meaning of "art".
Lol at everyone calling Kamiya names, wonder how you'd deal with the toxicity of twitter with that many entitled assholes/trolls expecting shit from you.
My man. The reactions here are unreal. Not to mention he is asked the same questions repeatedly and asks his followers not to flood him with repeated questions.
In the case of Hatred or Bum Simulator... If it is poor, and inconsiderate, and blase, a cash grab, and exists on hype or memes and whatever else then it's not Art.
people care too much about different opinions and dogmatic thinking. who cares about what he thinks is art or not and why does "art" needs to be treated as a holy word? art is everywhere really, almost everything that is produced by human hand has somekind of artistic intent in it, directly or not.
videogames primary intent is to entertain but they do have a lot of artistic input in them, if they are art or not depends on your own vision of it. I tend to think of games like ico and sotc more like interactive art than videogames in the traditional sense, so i think that some "games" value the experience and atmosphere way more than the ludic rush to win and make highscores but to each their own. i dont have a problem with someone saying pac man is art or that ico is a videogame. we're talking about a medium with extreme crossover from other fields, like design, cinema, photography and so on
videogames primary intent is to entertain but they do have a lot of artistic input in them, if they are art or not depends on your own vision of it. I tend to think of games like ico and sotc more like interactive art than videogames in the traditional sense, so i think that some "games" value the experience and atmosphere way more than the ludic rush to win and make highscores but to each their own. i dont have a problem with someone saying pac man is art or that ico is a videogame. we're talking about a medium with extreme crossover from other fields, like design, cinema, photography and so on
Games are art. Everything creative is art.
I can see why he'd want to label himself as an entertainer over being an artist though. I most appreciate games that strive to entertain above all else. Of all the art forms out there, entertainment is the single most important aspect of games in my opinion.
Definitely. I'd even say it's his best game since RE2.
I can see why he'd want to label himself as an entertainer over being an artist though. I most appreciate games that strive to entertain above all else. Of all the art forms out there, entertainment is the single most important aspect of games in my opinion.
Definitely. I'd even say it's his best game since RE2.
They definitely do, and I honestly don't see how anyone can disagree with this unless they've outgrown their hobby.
The people that don't take games seriously as a medium (i.e., art snobs and film critics) decided a very long time ago that games weren't art, so aiming to have games make people "feel something" has been a lost battle from the get go.
Part of his point seems to be that calling games art is motivated by a desire for legitimacy and he believes entertainment is a similarly legitimate goal. I think that aspect of his opinion is fine.
He's wrong, as many have pointed out, that the two need to be separated, but I can see why he might be annoyed that people care so much about the label "art" in the first place.
He's wrong, as many have pointed out, that the two need to be separated, but I can see why he might be annoyed that people care so much about the label "art" in the first place.
Yeah, the reactions to his opinion are pathetic.
Video games are a unique form of entertainment and can have high artistic components, and some of them are even crafted to make people feel certain things, but I wish we would stop labeling them as art.
Video games are a unique form of entertainment and can have high artistic components, and some of them are even crafted to make people feel certain things, but I wish we would stop labeling them as art.
... Michael Bay aesthetic? Are you getting him confused with someone else?
Kamiya is trying more than a little too hard these days. I get its annoying to deal with the random fans and gamers on the internet in terms of expecting nuance or patience but this stuff comes off as reddit tier philosophizing. I'm surprised he didn't super impose the troll face in that comic.
I personally never thought that games were art.
I mean, art only has meaning when it causes a reaction that you wasn't expecting from it, and I personally play games to have fun, without expecting a deep meaning from it.
And yes, I think that there are games where there's a really deep artistic effort on it, like most the cinematic games from Sony.
But I think that when you have a screenplay which supplants the core of gameplay, that game would work on most of the medias. The gameplay from it is a detail.
I mean, if we remove the gaming parts, the game would continue to work, while if we remove the narratives over it, the game doesn't work at all.
Looking over the most technical aspect, when I was growing, I thought that the nearest that a game was an art for me was the old neo-geo days and how the pixel art on them were beautiful. It's sad that the pixel art these days turned itself into more dynamic style. I mean, it's not bad, but I miss the overly-detailed backgrounds from the old fighting games.
I mean, art only has meaning when it causes a reaction that you wasn't expecting from it, and I personally play games to have fun, without expecting a deep meaning from it.
And yes, I think that there are games where there's a really deep artistic effort on it, like most the cinematic games from Sony.
But I think that when you have a screenplay which supplants the core of gameplay, that game would work on most of the medias. The gameplay from it is a detail.
I mean, if we remove the gaming parts, the game would continue to work, while if we remove the narratives over it, the game doesn't work at all.
Looking over the most technical aspect, when I was growing, I thought that the nearest that a game was an art for me was the old neo-geo days and how the pixel art on them were beautiful. It's sad that the pixel art these days turned itself into more dynamic style. I mean, it's not bad, but I miss the overly-detailed backgrounds from the old fighting games.
I just find it a bit confusing considering he said this not that long ago:
"My feeling is that games themselves... they're not just mass-produced things. They're art, they're part of the developer's personality. It's not like you just have the parts and a blueprint, then you assemble them like a car. I don't want games to be that way. I want games to be about each person's individuality, [so] players can feel the creativity that comes from the person directing it.
"That's the way I want to look at games, that's how they need to be made."
https://www.gamesindustry.biz/artic...m-games-may-never-work-with-a-publisher-again
"My feeling is that games themselves... they're not just mass-produced things. They're art, they're part of the developer's personality. It's not like you just have the parts and a blueprint, then you assemble them like a car. I don't want games to be that way. I want games to be about each person's individuality, [so] players can feel the creativity that comes from the person directing it.
"That's the way I want to look at games, that's how they need to be made."
https://www.gamesindustry.biz/artic...m-games-may-never-work-with-a-publisher-again
I don't know why anyone cares either way. Trying to quantify art has to rank as one of the most vapid conversations a person can have. All that is important is what value and meaning a piece has to you as an individual. By all means share your thoughts on it with others and listen to theirs, but attempting to match the work up to an imaginary set of criteria that signifies it's worthy of being placed in some higher cultural pantheon always leads to a dead end conversation and is a waste of time.
Making edgy post while calling someone an edgelord. Hmmmm... anyway...
Some games are art because they make you think. Shadow of the Colossus is a good example.
Movies can also be art.
So you're saying that the difference between "art" and "Art" is effort and imagination?
And if one does not consume "Art", what does one do with it? Is it just a poor choice of words or does it imply something that you take exception to?
Do you call your local dungeon master an artist? Maybe he changed his mind.
He is clearly trolling with the thread topic Tweet. Yet people will fall for it for whatever their own personal biasses or not are on either side.
Hey also maybe he means to him, making games is not making art. His approach to games is not from the outlook of an artist. He doesn't consider his games art.
His English isn't perfect so I think there's plenty of room for that interpretation.
His English isn't perfect so I think there's plenty of room for that interpretation.
kamiya is soooo cool.
you dont have to agree with him, every country has a different concept of art. looking at the US with their glorifying military crap gives me goosebumps all the time. i dont like the lolification of stuff in japan, but i do like games such as katamari damacy, bayonetta, super mario or experimental stuff such as LSD back on PSX(even though i just played it a few years back on psp).
every dev can decide whether or not he wants to create art. i love kamiya for his own ways, and not trying to go with everyone else.
you dont have to agree with him, every country has a different concept of art. looking at the US with their glorifying military crap gives me goosebumps all the time. i dont like the lolification of stuff in japan, but i do like games such as katamari damacy, bayonetta, super mario or experimental stuff such as LSD back on PSX(even though i just played it a few years back on psp).
every dev can decide whether or not he wants to create art. i love kamiya for his own ways, and not trying to go with everyone else.
well, that's unnecessary isn't it.
anyways there is plenty of developers who say the opposite, so unless he speaks for them this tweet really doesn't matter.
Kamiya the edge lord. Yeah, we get it. You're a tortured... "entertainer". Yawn.
Oh, also, had anyone else noticed he's looking at porn in that cartoon? Fucking bizarre.
Oh, also, had anyone else noticed he's looking at porn in that cartoon? Fucking bizarre.
I mean, why not? They create a world with characters and a story, they guide the player and try and create an experience for them where they will feel different emotions. Unless fiction is now suddenly not art?
Nah, he's an asshole IRL as well. I still remember when he had a meltdown because someone took an innocuous pic of him taking a nap at E3 lol.
I respect that he's tweeting while watching internet porn on his desktop computer. Pretty good multi-tasking.
Regarding the substance...
Can games be art? Yes.
Are all games art? No.
Can music be art? Yes.
Is all music art? No.
If all games are art or all music is art or all of any creative expression is art, then you lose the meaning of art. Also if you start quoting the dictionary on this topic, then you've already missed the point.
Regarding the substance...
Can games be art? Yes.
Are all games art? No.
Can music be art? Yes.
Is all music art? No.
If all games are art or all music is art or all of any creative expression is art, then you lose the meaning of art. Also if you start quoting the dictionary on this topic, then you've already missed the point.
The reason I find this shitty is that people were just innocently complimenting him by calling The Wonderful 101 art and he RTed them with "Fuck off" and blocked them, then he posts this comic edit insinuating they're like, pissy about it? That's super weird. I feel like this is the first time I think he's really off-base in a dumb way. You're totally allowed to say you don't think your stuff is art, but why are you treating fans like this?
He doesn't make games by himself. He has whole teams behind him. Maybe in that team we can find artists.
I myself make several cosplay props for a living, figures, clothing and such. But I don't consider myself and artist, that doesn't mean that what I do, for others it's considered "art".
Kamiya, dude, videogames require artworks to be developed, those artworks are born from ideas. Therefore, games are art, and art can be a form of entertainment.
I myself make several cosplay props for a living, figures, clothing and such. But I don't consider myself and artist, that doesn't mean that what I do, for others it's considered "art".
Kamiya, dude, videogames require artworks to be developed, those artworks are born from ideas. Therefore, games are art, and art can be a form of entertainment.
Agree with him.
Some games qualify as art but I can count those on one hand.
The rest are commercial entertainment products.
Some games qualify as art but I can count those on one hand.
The rest are commercial entertainment products.
Good for him. He's free to express his opinion. His way of getting it across was slightly amusing, like how he drew himself with only a single hair.
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