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Justin Trudeau Wore Brownface at 2001 ‘Arabian Nights’ Party While He Taught at a Private School [update: Trudeau apologized, 3rd older video found]
- Thread starter fluffydelusions
- Start date
No one should be out because of a mistake 19 years ago he or she apologized for. We are people, we make mistakes. This whole outrage culture is far more damaging and negative, expecting people to be perfect or you're out.
Would you still agree with your own statement if it was sexual harassment or assault that Trudeau had committed?
Are you really comparing this with sexual assault?
Typical outrage culture comment.
That doesn't invalidate the standard you hold to others. If you go for a job interview and they start talking to you, are you going to blurt out every bad thing you have done to get in front of it? No. The position doesn't matter when the goal is to have people be upfront and honest about the bad things so they can make amends.
I would never compare that with portraying a Disney character. No.
If it was a job as a political candidate, yeah. It's held to a different standard because it's fundamentally different from most jobs.
Him being in charge of a whole country means that he will be under more scrutiny, that comes with power. So wouldn't it have been better for him to be honest about it? Journalists were going to find this out at some point and it would have been better coming from him than them.
So racism is nothing then?
Aladdin doesn't look like that, that is straight up blackface. Keep giving him excuses though.
I guess all the Dutch people (including their kids) are also racists for doing blackface during Sinterklaas?
I'd say it's more ignorance in this case. Especially for that time.
It can be both.
Edit: What I'm trying to say is that if you are going to call the right shitheels (as should be the case) then you have to hold your own side accountable when they do something bad too. It just looks like hypocrisy otherwise.
As someone who was a student in the early 2000s, I'll say there's was a lot of irony going on back then, as in everything you did was ironic.
Personally, I was quite earnest for the time but most things I would also do with irony. It seemed to be a good way to react to what appeared like a very hypocritical and angry society at the time.
I could see someone, ironically dressing up like that an ironic response to the racist tv shows and cartoons of his parents. Luckily, I grew up poor so it was only school uniform parties and the sexualization of young girls that implies.
I observe now people are more earnest and sincere especially online. And I can see it as another reaction to the world outside. But remember no one can be 100% one thing all the time, that's an ideologue. Allow yourself some space to be ironic, irreverent, blasphemous along with earnest and sincere (but maybe don't try irony on Twitter).
Personally, I was quite earnest for the time but most things I would also do with irony. It seemed to be a good way to react to what appeared like a very hypocritical and angry society at the time.
I could see someone, ironically dressing up like that an ironic response to the racist tv shows and cartoons of his parents. Luckily, I grew up poor so it was only school uniform parties and the sexualization of young girls that implies.
I observe now people are more earnest and sincere especially online. And I can see it as another reaction to the world outside. But remember no one can be 100% one thing all the time, that's an ideologue. Allow yourself some space to be ironic, irreverent, blasphemous along with earnest and sincere (but maybe don't try irony on Twitter).
And he apoligized, for something he did almost two decades ago. The comparison you made is just ridiculous. A bigger problem is the whole 'one strike and you're out' mentality.
Out of the blue there are excuses for racism, ignorance is a valid reason, "going all in for a costume" is a good reason.
What a bunch of hypocrite you are.
Disgusting
I've seen more fake outraged comments under a fucking streaming doing blackface than here for a fucking politician that represents the left in Canada.
BuT iT's BeTTer than the CoNServAtIves!1!111!
What a bunch of hypocrite you are.
Disgusting
I've seen more fake outraged comments under a fucking streaming doing blackface than here for a fucking politician that represents the left in Canada.
BuT iT's BeTTer than the CoNServAtIves!1!111!
Question, are you American or Canadian?
Just curious about context. As with our history vs yours, while blackface is a very bad look and awful history - it's a different history than the US where it was a lot more significant. What would be bad to our history is if he was wearing a First Nations tribal head dress in a satirical/mocking way. But most Americans wouldn't bat an eye at "Cowboys and Indian" costumes, but that would be a very bad look for a Canadian leader imo. So cultural context from the country you're in is important.
Like this article:
A friend of mine years ago ran in a meaningless local election and part of the vetting process the party he ran for put him under was to ask if there was anything in his past that might come out. It seems pretty routine in a job where you are going to be a public figure.
Is it really? Would people demand Bezos to step down as the CEO of Amazon if it turned out he did this? I doubt most people would care beyond a small dip in Amazon stocks. He legit has complete control over the financial aspect of hundreds of thousand of people's live. The degree is arbitrary. Just because a person is elevated to a different work stature doesn't mean they will immediately and want to disclose their secrets. That's not smart. The reason you don't disclose any of the bad things you've done is the same reason. Self preservation is instinctual.
"better for him".
You need to elaborate. If he freely admitted this during his 2015 campaign he would not be elected. How is that "better" for him? What defintion of better are you using? His political career would plummet. Do you think the public would just go, "Well, since he came out and admitted it 14 years later then it's all good?" No. We'd have the same conversation: why didn't he apologize then? There is no "better" for him in this situation. The best thing obviously as history as shown is to just hide it. You don't get anywhere by airing your demons no matter how cathartic people may make it out to be.
I'm not sure why how long ago it was has any real bearing? He was 29, he was a teacher, it was 2001 not 1971.
Neither.
Blackface is a bad look whatever country you are from and as Justin has rightfully said in his apology, it's racist.
A lot of people here seem to be excusing his behavior here, so who knows? He may have still been elected back then. "Hiding it" is almost never an option for someone looking to get into power, if someone wants to bring you down they will dig and dig until they get the dirt on you.
The fact he was 29 though, seems like at that age, somewhere in the makeup process you should be feeling uncomfortable.
Imagine how brown people in his party are feeling...
Imagine how brown people in his party are feeling...
I don't believe age is really a factor here. You see 30-year-olds today marching down the road with tiki torches wanting to deport anyone not white. These are also college educated folks too. There's more to emotional and empathetic maturity than just age.
They probably already watched him apologize and condemn it in live TV.
He should have cred, going by his policies. Would have taken balls to welcome refugees back in 2015.
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Yes because there's a whole group of people with substantial resources combing through your past looking to shatter your public image at the worst possible moment. It's just not like a regular job. It's politics.
Talked with my family in Canada (Haitian immigrants), and they honestly don't really care that much. Three of my cousins are members of the Liberal Party, and they are certainly disappointed. Will they not vote for him? Hell no, and they know what's at stake.
So you think someone who wants to run for party leader is going to freely admit these things? You'd think they'd not apply at all. Plenty of people apply to jobs and don't realize people check their Twitter or Facebook, but they still apply and don't disclose.
I assume the excusing is because of his track record. He did this in 2001. There isn't any other evidence he did this beyond that and the high school incident, and there's evidence of him helping minorities and PoC throughout his career.
You say "hiding it is almost never an option for someone looking to get into power", but can you name any person in a position of power who freely discloses all their wrong doings? Now compare that to those who do not.
Yeah and I think that's extremely foolish, just like Trudeau. Setting aside the ethical implications of what he did, how did he think this wouldn't come out? Did he not consider what might happen during an election? How it would hurt him and his party?
Do you think he believed he would get caught? No one does until they are.
That honestly strikes me as incredibly stupid if that's his thinking.
It's the smart decision. Society doesn't really treat its wrongdoers well unless they're privileged enough.
You're right. Keeping this secret so it came out the month before the election was smart.
By not doing racist/sexist stuff.
There is no key phrase or order of operations that absolves someone of past misdeeds. This is about behavior.
Trudeau's political career, despite its divisiveness and disappointments, does not suggest a meaningful pattern of conscious racism (though I can't speak for everyone.) He has that working in his favor. Additionally, he doesn't skirt around the notion that it was in-fact racist, and there seems to be some measure of sincerity to his apology.
But there is a clear fear of meaningful repercussions for him in the face of a looming election which risks handing the win to Scheer.
So I guess the way to handle it is be in an indispensable position where you are the lesser of two evils...
Racism and thinking people of colour are a joke to be laughed at. That is the reason, not any of the apologist crap you might read to explain it away.
User banned (2 weeks): defending racist behaviour
I still don't see the problem with it. The underlying context doesn't show any intention of racism whatsoever.
Would people also be up in arms if he were Hitler for Halloween?
This whole thing is actually a good test case for people to properly find the line.
Would people also be up in arms if he were Hitler for Halloween?
This whole thing is actually a good test case for people to properly find the line.
The act itself is inherently racist. And yes, don't dress up as fucking Hitler.
It feels like it came from ignorance but it's still 100% racism.
You don't think a future world leader dressing up as Hitler would be crossing the line?
While this is obviously racist by 2019 standards, flashing back to 19 years ago this kind of thing was nowhere near as obviously offensive in the public consciousness as it is now - the cultural conversation hadn't yet got to the place where this seen as completely racist and unacceptable.
I can remember people dressing up as all sorts of outfits at parties that would now be a massive no-no, but this was all treated as a bit of fun at the time because there was a lack of understanding that it's actually offensive. Times literally were different then, we've come a long way!
So it's interesting how politicians react to these revelations - people jumping on Trudeau for political advantage, when they were doubtless at similar gatherings way back when. And Trudeau himself apologising massively and saying he should have known it was massively racist, when culturally in 2000 among white people this would have been nothing and the conversation hadn't moved to a place where he necessarily should have known. He probably thought he was amusingly pushing the envelope of fancy dress, without any racist connotation entering his brain at all.
So yes, it was racist and he shouldn't have done it, but culturally back then it was pretty acceptable and the question is always whether we should judge people for their past actions by our present standards. And that's a more nuanced question than a lot of people give credit for, I think.
I can remember people dressing up as all sorts of outfits at parties that would now be a massive no-no, but this was all treated as a bit of fun at the time because there was a lack of understanding that it's actually offensive. Times literally were different then, we've come a long way!
So it's interesting how politicians react to these revelations - people jumping on Trudeau for political advantage, when they were doubtless at similar gatherings way back when. And Trudeau himself apologising massively and saying he should have known it was massively racist, when culturally in 2000 among white people this would have been nothing and the conversation hadn't moved to a place where he necessarily should have known. He probably thought he was amusingly pushing the envelope of fancy dress, without any racist connotation entering his brain at all.
So yes, it was racist and he shouldn't have done it, but culturally back then it was pretty acceptable and the question is always whether we should judge people for their past actions by our present standards. And that's a more nuanced question than a lot of people give credit for, I think.
This is such nonsense. Painting your face to have a laugh at other races was not ok 19 years ago. Look as Canadians we can agree to still vote Liberal as most of the party is clearly not racist but for god sake we can't be justifying or explaining away an act that is uniquely awful and racist. We need to have some integrity or we are a joke.