Justice Clarence Thomas Wants SCOTUS to 'Correct the Error' of Legal Gay Marriage

Old Luke · Jun 25, 2022

Pomerlaw said:
Don't. You. EVER. Trust. CONSERVATIVES.

If Canada puts it's guard down WE ARE NEXT.

They have a PRO-LIFE candidate running for God's sake.

I'm not a canadian, but as someone who lives in Brazil, I second that.

Do not, in any circunstances, let your guard down with right wingers and conservatives.

Do not take things for granted. Do not think democracy and freedom is something they deeply care off. They only care for their vision of democracy, only their freedom.

First chance a rightwinger, conservative or fascist got, they will fuck you up and take your rights.

Replicant · Jun 25, 2022

entremet said:
Sonia Sotomayor loves him for some reason.

And RBG loved Scalia.

Sulik2 · Jun 25, 2022

Foffy said:
Just jail the gays and anyone who helps them in their lives, that sounds like the plan. Wouldn't be surprised they go all out and try to argue if DACA recipients are in poverty they get evicted from the United States. I still remember that being proposed as legislation a few years ago, too, even if it was for barely half of the day.

People really, really need to be made aware of the fascism problem we have. Even saying the GOP is worse than ISIS, a mere obvious fact, is seen as hyperbolic. Something's seriously wrong in terms of many peoples optics and understanding of how much deep shit we're in.

It's the medias fault basically IMHO. Between both sidesing and refusing to call a spade a spade too many people just don't get it.

onadesertedisland · Jun 25, 2022

Replicant said:
And RBG loved Scalia.

The ruling class are not part of our universe

Cupcake Knight · Jun 25, 2022

If I understand this right Thomas opinion changed since his original ruling of Lawrence

If I were a member of the Texas Legislature, I would vote to repeal it. Punishing someone for expressing his sexual preference through noncommercial consensual conduct with another adult does not appear to be a worthy way to expend valuable law enforcement resources.

Lawrence v. Texas/Dissent Thomas - Wikisource, the free online library

en.m.wikisource.org

JohnsonUT · Jun 25, 2022

Cupcake Knight said:
If I understand this right Thomas opinion changed since his original ruling of Lawrence

Lawrence v. Texas/Dissent Thomas - Wikisource, the free online library

en.m.wikisource.org

Maybe. But it's part of the reason originalism is bullshit. You get to make rulings to ruin people's lives and then blame it on dead guys from the 19th century.

"I don't take pleasure in ruining the lives of women or the gay community or poc, but it's what the founders wanted so my hands are tied. Also only I am qualified to uniquely understand founder's intention. It is quite the coincidence that it always lines up with what I want the outcome to be. "

Raftina · Jun 25, 2022

Thomas did not change his position.

1. He dissented in the decision that provided constitutional protection for gay sex. He is now calling for the decision to be overruled, which is consistent with his prior position.

2. He said the legislature should not ban gay sex. That is very different than saying it is a constitutional right. For example, most people agree that it would be a bad idea for Congress to ban highly skilled workers from immigrating to the US. But almost no one thinks there is a constitutional right to immigrate to the US based on skill.

jerf · Jun 25, 2022

I never want to hear a democrat EVER talk about reaching across the aisle again. The only reason to reach across the aisle is to deliver an open hand slap.

These are not people, they are monsters

Clefargle · Jun 25, 2022

Jamesways said:
So banning all contraception then too?

This is the correct question because the conservatives disagree on this point so it's a great wedge issue

Finaj · Jun 25, 2022

Talking completely hypothetically here, but if the court decision allowing gay marriage was to be reversed, what would happen? Would a ton of gay couples suddenly not be married anymore?

Coolness · Jun 25, 2022

Finaj said:
Talking completely hypothetically here, but if the court decision allowing gay marriage was to be reversed, what would happen? Would a ton of gay couples suddenly not be married anymore?

I'm assuming it won't be federally recognized or we may have a patchwork of states allowing it and not.

Edit: it might be the latter as DOMA was struck down.

Deleted member 13798 · Jun 25, 2022

Finaj said:
Talking completely hypothetically here, but if the court decision allowing gay marriage was to be reversed, what would happen? Would a ton of gay couples suddenly not be married anymore?

It'll go back to the states, many of which are pushing laws restricting healthcare and other basic human rights to LGBTQIA+ individuals so you can assume their marriage rights would be invalidated in those same shithole red states. Far as I understand it anyway.

CeVee · Jun 25, 2022

I can not say everything I want to say without getting banned. As many, I knew and feared it wouldn't stop with Roe v Wade, and as a poc with a kid and seeing the landscape this country seems to be headed in—hell, the regression I see the world over—fear does not even begin to cover it at this point.

I'll do my part, but damn do I hope it actually amounts to something so the rights of all minorities aren't stripped away, systematically, one by one.

Goat Mimicry · Jun 25, 2022

jerf said:
I never want to hear a democrat EVER talk about reaching across the aisle again. The only reason to reach across the aisle is to deliver an open hand slap.

These are not people, they are monsters

Yes.

I also never want to hear a Democrat talk about having Republican friends. At this point, it's fair to assume that any Democrat with a Republican friend is either a shithead or a fool, and I'd much prefer if they don't admit that outright. Democrats with those relationships should be ashamed of them and keep them hidden. They can be polite if they have to (not that I'm a fan of that), but being friends with these monsters is going too far.

CDX · Jun 25, 2022

Charizard said:
About 30 states have gay marriage bans in their constitution via amendments, including some blue states like California and Oregon. It's gonna be messy, especially if pre-Obergefell rulings in favor of gay marriage end up not applying. Dear lord.

There is also precedent for invalidating the marriages too because that actually happened in California back in 2004. Newsom (a mayor back then) allowed gay marriages for a bit until the state said "no" and invalidated the marriages. Either way it is gonna be a hot mess.

It's going to be terrible

Cupcake Knight · Jun 25, 2022

JohnsonUT said:
Maybe. But it's part of the reason originalism is bullshit. You get to make rulings to ruin people's lives and then blame it on dead guys from the 19th century.

Playing devil's advocate The ruling of the SCOTUS didn't ruin peoples lives. The law of the states do it.

TooBusyLookinGud · Jun 25, 2022

It's happening. No need to fool yourselves and think otherwise. Tell your parents that voted for Trump thank you for everything.

zero_suit · Jun 25, 2022

jerf said:
I never want to hear a democrat EVER talk about reaching across the aisle again. The only reason to reach across the aisle is to deliver an open hand slap.

These are not people, they are monsters

The GOP gets worse with each passing year. They're cartoon villains at this point.

Chirotera · Jun 25, 2022

Cupcake Knight said:
Playing devil's advocate The ruling of the SCOTUS didn't ruin peoples lives. The law of the states do it.

Not sure that's really a Devil's Advocate situation. You're being pedantic.

LegendofJoe · Jun 25, 2022

Once same sex marriages are annulled they're going to go after the families with children. They will take the kids away and do who knows what with them. If you don't think they'll do that you're choosing fantasy over reality. They're already doing it in Texas with families that have trans children.

King Alamat · Jun 25, 2022

zero_suit said:
The GOP gets worse with each passing year. They're cartoon villains at this point.

That's not fair. Some cartoon villains actually get shots at redemption and do their best to atone.

Chirotera · Jun 25, 2022

JohnsonUT said:
Maybe. But it's part of the reason originalism is bullshit. You get to make rulings to ruin people's lives and then blame it on dead guys from the 19th century.

"I don't take pleasure in ruining the lives of women or the gay community or poc, but it's what the founders wanted so my hands are tied. Also only I am qualified to uniquely understand founder's intention. It is quite the coincidence that it always lines up with what I want the outcome to be. "

Originalism is so disgusting. We should not make rulings in 2022 that were based on 1800s precedent. Any of the justices clinging to it should be disbarred from practicing law.

onadesertedisland · Jun 25, 2022

LegendofJoe said:
Once same sex marriages are annulled they're going to go after the families with children. They will take the kids away and do who knows what with them. If you don't think they'll do that you're choosing fantasy over reality. They're already doing it in Texas with families that have trans children.

I worry they might go after married couples that filed joint tax returns in the past. There's so many ways for these evil fucks to be shitty.

Karamsoul · Jun 25, 2022

Pocky4Th3Win said:
I am not allowed to say what I want to say.

You should be. This is why we are failing. Fire with fire is the only language these fascist motherfuckers understand. An appeal to better natures got us here in the first place.

Goat Mimicry · Jun 25, 2022

Cupcake Knight said:
Playing devil's advocate The ruling of the SCOTUS didn't ruin peoples lives. The law of the states do it.

The SCOTUS knows this will allow states to ruin lives, so it's effectively the same thing. By your logic, the SCOTUS didn't weaken peoples' ability to vote, the states that were no longer as restricted by the weakened voting rights act did.

But no, that's dumb. It's on the SCOTUS for enabling the shithole red states. They're hurting as many people as they can and they know it.

Disco Infernal · Jun 25, 2022

Karamsoul said:
You should be. This is why we are failing. Fire with fire is the only language these fascist motherfuckers understand. An appeal to better natures got us here in the first place.

We're not failing because we're not spouting empty platitudes or threats on a discussion forum.

Hale-XF11 · Jun 25, 2022

There is no greater evil on this planet than a religious conservative.

Tremorah · Jun 25, 2022

These motherfuckers arent happy till every social thing is reversed back 200 years

Backwards ass thinking ignorant religious assholes

Netherscourge · Jun 25, 2022

Gotta love that two of the Justices who voted to repeal women's rights have documented sexual harassment claims against them, and one of them was credibly accused of sexual assault.

Soundscream · Jun 25, 2022

Thordinson · Jun 25, 2022

Cupcake Knight said:
Playing devil's advocate The ruling of the SCOTUS didn't ruin peoples lives. The law of the states do it.

Yes it did. It literally took a right away from folks. The first time it's taken away a Constitutionally protected right.

grand · Jun 25, 2022

The silver lining is that since it's a concurring opinion, it's just Thomas' view. Roberts wouldn't agree obviously and it would be shocking if Thomas got 5 justices on board.

The bigger concern is that it shows a clear interest to continue eroding rights and sets a precedent to inflict severe hardship on marginalized groups who don't already have court precedent backing them up (ex. Trans rights)

zero_suit · Jun 25, 2022

Soundscream said:

Sam going in.

KtotheRoc · Jun 25, 2022

Soundscream said:

Jackson did not hold back.

Khanimus · Jun 25, 2022

The number of doctors, emergency responders and caregivers who are now having to operate at the behest of Christofascists.

Fucking fuck.

Probably rules against posting what I'd like to see happen to those responsible, but I assure you I would take no issue to see them suffer in the most horrifying fucking ways.

This is so far passed the "change hearts and minds" nonsense

BWoog · Jun 25, 2022

Khanimus said:
The number of doctors, emergency responders and caregivers who are now having to operate at the behest of Christofascists.

Fucking fuck.

Probably rules against posting what I'd like to see happen to those responsible, but I assure you I would take no issue to see them suffer in the most horrifying fucking ways.

Rural areas were already fucked with lack of resources when it came to emergency services. This will just make more doctors never want to operate within red states because they might be sent to prison for committing the crime of helping women. Shit's medieval.

BeI · Jun 25, 2022

Is anything stopping more members being added to the Supreme court? It's obviously become too heavily partisan. It basically seems like they've hijacked control of the country.

Pai Pai Master · Jun 25, 2022

BeI said:
Is anything stopping more members being added to the Supreme court? It's obviously become too heavily partisan. It basically seems like they've hijacked control of the country.

Several democrats that arent so easy to get rid of

JohnsonUT · Jun 25, 2022

Cupcake Knight said:
Playing devil's advocate The ruling of the SCOTUS didn't ruin peoples lives. The law of the states do it.

Yes and no. Or maybe. I get that you are playing devils advocate so I can understand what you are saying. It kinda gets down to a philosophical question at some point. "I gave the guy a gun who said he was going to shoot people, but I didn't pull the trigger so it is not my fault". There is definite value in having these type of academic discussions as society evolves its morality and social norms.

Ultimately though, these decision are not made in a vacuum as much as conservatives like to pretend in order to absolve their guilt. There is real context and real culture at play.

Raftina · Jun 25, 2022

Thordinson said:
Yes it did. It literally took a right away from folks. The first time it's taken away a Constitutionally protected right.

Fortunately for us, Dobbs was not the first time the Supreme Court reversed itself on a constitutional right it had recognized. In Lochner vs New York, the Supreme Court invented a right to contract using substantive due process under the 14th amendment. It then used the right to invalidate labor protection laws for the next 3 decades or so. The Supreme Court finally reversed itself after FDR threatened court packing, allowing the New Deal and subsequent economic regulation to proceed mostly unmolested.

Thordinson · Jun 25, 2022

Raftina said:
Fortunately for us, Dobbs was not the first time the Supreme Court reversed itself on a constitutional right it had recognized. In Lochner vs New York, the Supreme Court invented a right to contract using substantive due process under the 14th amendment. It then used the right to invalidate labor protection laws for the next 3 decades or so. The Supreme Court finally reversed itself after FDR threatened court packing, allowing the New Deal and subsequent economic regulation to proceed mostly unmolested.

Oh gotcha. I thought it was. My mistake. Thanks for that, friend!

Davilmar · Jun 25, 2022

Pai Pai Master said:
Several democrats that arent so easy to get rid of

This has always been my fear. Same reason why Senate Democrats aren't throwing Manchin or Sinema out a window. A lot of people who share their views than will publicly admit.

Chaos Legion · Jun 25, 2022

BeI said:
Is anything stopping more members being added to the Supreme court? It's obviously become too heavily partisan. It basically seems like they've hijacked control of the country.

Adding doesn't really solve anything.

Dis · Jun 25, 2022

Charizard said:
There is also precedent for invalidating the marriages too because that actually happened in California back in 2004. Newsom (a mayor back then) allowed gay marriages for a bit until the state said "no" and invalidated the marriages. Either way it is gonna be a hot mess.

This could also cause messes and annoyance for people from other nations who aren't us citizens and don't even live there. Some nations recognise marriages from other nations for legal purposes like visas and such as long as those marriages follow the legal rules and are considered legal from the nation/state you got married in.

People who went to the usa to have their weddings, or who married there and then went home and their partner moved with them could end up having to deal with a bunch of bullshit hoop jumping just to make sure legally speaking it's still counted without risk of issues in future. I literally have no idea how other nations would treat marriages being invalidated at that point, and it may end up that people need to marry again in their home nations to make sure it's not gonna cause issues down the road.

You'd hope not but who the fuck knows how it'll be handled when a nation suddenly decides to go back to a period of beliefs not suitable for decades.

LeGrandBouquetBlanc · Jun 25, 2022

Soundscream said:

Went right for the throat

Watershed · Jun 25, 2022

Republicans will never give up on these issues. In American, the fight for equal rights never ends, even after those rights have been won. We will always be fighting conservatives for our humanity.

Cupcake Knight · Jun 25, 2022

Chirotera said:
Not sure that's really a Devil's Advocate situation. You're being pedantic.

Goat Mimicry said:
The SCOTUS knows this will allow states to ruin lives, so it's effectively the same thing. By your logic, the SCOTUS didn't weaken peoples' ability to vote, the states that were no longer as restricted by the weakened voting rights act did.

I used it to say this isn't my way of thinking.
This more of an academic/philosophical/law type discourse as pointed out by JohnsonUT

JohnsonUT said:
Yes and no. Or maybe. I get that you are playing devils advocate so I can understand what you are saying. It kinda gets down to a philosophical question at some point. "I gave the guy a gun who said he was going to shoot people, but I didn't pull the trigger so it is not my fault". There is definite value in having these type of academic discussions as society evolves its morality and social norms.

Ultimately though, these decision are not made in a vacuum as much as conservatives like to pretend in order to absolve their guilt. There is real context and real culture at play.

Thordinson said:
Yes it did. It literally took a right away from folks. The first time it's taken away a Constitutionally protected right.

It being a Constitutionally protected right didn't seem this clear with all 3 rulings regarding this. None of the rulings were unanimous this implies that based on different readings it is open to interpretation.
If it isn't protected by the constitution in its current form the constitution should be changed.
But this debate is pretty academic and didn't change the fact the outcome is bad.

Thordinson · Jun 25, 2022

Cupcake Knight said:
It being a Constitutionally protected right didn't seem this clear with all 3 rulings regarding this. None of the rulings were unanimous this implies that based on different readings it is open to interpretation.
If it isn't protected by the constitution in its current form the constitution should be changed.
But this debate is pretty academic and didn't change the fact the outcome is bad.

There's a different reading of any law especially with a Court as divided as this one. It doesn't matter if something is unanimous, really. It was clear enough for a massive majority to confirm the right.

The Constitution cannot be changed for something like this. It's practically impossible at the moment.

MrSaturn99 · Jun 25, 2022

Netherscourge said:
Gotta love that two of the Justices who voted to repeal women's rights have documented sexual harassment claims against them, and one of them was credibly accused of sexual assault.

That man, in turn, appointed by another predator not only credibly accused of sexual assault, but openly bragged about it. And people voted him into office after the fact, on top of everything vile and horrific that he proudly represented before and after the fact.

What a grim comedy that we reward men for rape and punish women for having sex. On top of that, the fact that we're in this mess because of a man who attempted to overthrow an election is driving me mad, and now we'll reap the consequences of his fraudulent, sociopathic fascism for generations to come.

Tahnit · Jun 25, 2022

CDX said:
It's going to be terrible

Do this and there will be violence.

Justice Clarence Thomas Wants SCOTUS to 'Correct the Error' of Legal Gay Marriage

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