Justice Clarence Thomas Wants SCOTUS to 'Correct the Error' of Legal Gay Marriage

Nothing Loud · Jun 25, 2022

DeusOcha said:
Sure sure, let's keep pretending that maintaining the charade of civility while your environment goes to shit isn't in any way indicative of how said shit happens in the first place. Like I've stated originally there's multiple reasons why many vocal progressive members and communities aren't around here anymore.

Do you understand why people say "I can't say what I want or I'll be banned"? It's because the site can't tolerate calls to violence, they would be hosting a breeding ground for calls for domestic terrorism and their ad sponsors would have problems with that. So they must ban any posts that state that. Why are you baiting people into saying more than is necessary? This situation sucks and calls to violence should not be encouraged here.

Iztok · Jun 25, 2022

Unrivaled said:
How is this a political issue? Abortion and gay marriage should be basic human rights, this should have nothing to do with political views.

The fact that there are people out there who defend this is disgusting.

It's not a political issue, that's the thing.

It's a religious issue. And it seems to me like very few are willing to acknowledge that.

ironichaos · Jun 25, 2022

They're coming for the gays and contraception next. We've already started to see oligarchs like Elon Musk begin tweeting about how our population numbers are in decline and we need more babies. Non-baby producing relationships are the next target.

https://www.newsweek.com/us-birth-r...rtility-rate-population-twitter-1709920?amp=1

Deleted member 14518 · Jun 25, 2022

ironichaos said:
They're coming for the gays and contraception next. We've already started to see oligarchs like Elon Musk begin tweeting about how our population numbers are in decline and we need more babies. Non-baby producing relationships are the next target.

https://www.newsweek.com/us-birth-r...rtility-rate-population-twitter-1709920?amp=1

Elon just views people as cattle. He's the worst kind of narcissistic misanthrope.

DeusOcha · Jun 25, 2022

Disco Infernal said:
Because they too couldn't respect the simple guidelines put forth by the admin here? Ok. Not sure what encouraging members to get banned and join them accomplishes.

Again, you either commit to your values or you don't, if the consequence of being banned from a niche Internet forum prevents you from expressing yourself under the context of legitimate life-changing events then the Internet board takes more priority.

Nothing Loud said:
Do you understand why people say "I can't say what I want or I'll be banned"? It's because the site can't tolerate calls to violence, they would be hosting a breeding ground for calls for domestic terrorism and their ad sponsors would have problems with that. So they must ban any posts that state that. Why are you baiting people into saying more than is necessary? This situation sucks and calls to violence should not be encouraged here.

Then that's the site's problem, and yes it is a legitimate one. I'm baiting people to actually examine their values and commit to them and put them above whatever this niche Internet forum has to say/offer.

darkwing · Jun 25, 2022

ironichaos said:
They're coming for the gays and contraception next. We've already started to see oligarchs like Elon Musk begin tweeting about how our population numbers are in decline and we need more babies. Non-baby producing relationships are the next target.

https://www.newsweek.com/us-birth-r...rtility-rate-population-twitter-1709920?amp=1

yes, same sex marriage will go down next unfortunately, it's going to be a mess whether the ruling would be retroactive and how is it going to be enforced

Unrivaled · Jun 25, 2022

Iztok said:
It's not a political issue, that's the thing.

It's a religious issue. And it seems to me like very few are willing to acknowledge that.

Yes, in Canada both liberal and conservative people are saying this ruling is a joke.

I have only seen a few whack jobs defending it. These should be basic human rights, pretending it is political is just to try to make yourself look like less of a pos if you are on the side wanting these banned.

Disco Infernal · Jun 25, 2022

DeusOcha said:
Again, you either commit to your values or you don't, if the consequence of being banned from a niche Internet forum prevents you from expressing yourself under the context of legitimate life-changing events then the Internet board takes more priority.

Then that's the site's problem, and yes it is a legitimate one. I'm baiting people to actually examine their values and commit to them and put them above whatever this niche Internet forum has to say/offer.

I get it, your shtick is performative.

Thordinson · Jun 25, 2022

darkwing said:
yes, same sex marriage will go down next unfortunately, it's going to be a mess whether the ruling would be retroactive and how is it going to be enforced

It can't be retroactive.

Witness · Jun 25, 2022

ironichaos said:
They're coming for the gays and contraception next. We've already started to see oligarchs like Elon Musk begin tweeting about how our population numbers are in decline and we need more babies. Non-baby producing relationships are the next target.

https://www.newsweek.com/us-birth-r...rtility-rate-population-twitter-1709920?amp=1

Oh they want people to have babies, so then how about they just make insurance companies 100% cover fertility treatment for people who want kids but can't without medical intervention? There's so many people that want biological children but literally can't unless they spend tens of thousands of dollars.

Throw some federally paid maternity and paternity leave in there and now we are getting somewhere in addressing birthing rates.

DeusOcha · Jun 25, 2022

Disco Infernal said:
I get it, your shtick is performative.

Yes. That's the idea when you're in an environment mired by political apathy at best and political infighting at worst.

natjjohn · Jun 25, 2022

Thordinson said:
It can't be retroactive.

Wouldn't rule out anything.

Alavard · Jun 25, 2022

DeusOcha said:
"I'd be banned for..." put up or shut up. You either commit to your values or you don't.

America is a failed state whose writing has been at the wall at the very least 2016 an arguably since 2000. You either fight, get out, or sit on your ass hoping the tide of fascism doesn't hit your little blue corner of the country. And no, the former-most option does not mean sitting here twiddling your thumbs on "but the banhammer" on fucking ResetERA of all places.

You want this board to be a legit example and haven for critical discussion? Acknowledge the context of reality that influences our world today, America primarily due the membership majority of this community.

This is incredibly tone deaf when you yourself 'got out'.

Thordinson · Jun 25, 2022

natjjohn said:
Wouldn't rule out anything.

Unless they change the Constitution, it won't be retroactive. States could, likely, refuse to acknowledge marriage certificates though.

DeusOcha · Jun 25, 2022

Alavard said:
This is incredibly tone deaf coming from someone who themselves 'got out'.

This entire forum has been tone deaf to progressivism for years; we all here can recite the words ad naseum but lack the will to commit which is a microcosm to America at large. Again I cite the many communities and members that aren't around anymore. Or you can have folks like me whose been here since this site's very inception and only pop in once in the occasional blue moon to keep tabs on a news aggregate site and poke around to see if yet another societal tragedy will finally be the point for people to put their espoused values over the comfort of a niche Internet forum.

Musubi · Jun 25, 2022

People are really getting put up against a wall. Things in this country are going to get extremely ugly. People will only take so much before things become violent. Biden knows this by the way he emphasized the phrase "non violent" in his speech the other day.

Manmademan · Jun 25, 2022

DeusOcha said:
This entire forum has been tone deaf to progressivism for years; we all here can recite the words ad naseum but lack the will to commit which is a microcosm to America at large. Again I cite the many communities and members that aren't around anymore. Or you can have folks like me whose been here since this site's very inception and only pop in once in the occasional blue moon to keep tabs on a news aggregate site and poke around to see if yet another human right being stripped away will finally be the point for people to put their espoused values over the comfort of a niche Internet forum.

If you want to demonstrate the "will to commit" then get outside, register voters and fundraise to support candidates.

Everything else is hot air.

Sulik2 · Jun 25, 2022

The end game of this is pretty clear. If the GOP gets total power in 2024 we will see a national gay ban and "reduction camps" for LGBTQIA+ people setup. This country is nearly there.

Alavard · Jun 25, 2022

DeusOcha said:
This entire forum has been tone deaf to progressivism for years; we all here can recite the words ad naseum but lack the will to commit which is a microcosm to America at large. Again I cite the many communities and members that aren't around anymore. Or you can have folks like me whose been here since this site's very inception and only pop in once in the occasional blue moon to keep tabs on a news aggregate site and poke around to see if yet another human right being stripped away will finally be the point for people to put their espoused values over the comfort of a niche Internet forum.

This is a giant word salad to try to disguise that you're mad people here won't make calls for violence and get themselves banned. You're really enjoying the finger wagging, hypocritical as it is. If threatening violence is so important for you to see on this forum, do it yourself and eat the ban yourself. Of course, then you wouldn't get to tone police here any more would you?

krazen · Jun 25, 2022

lol. What a terrible post jack going on

Manmademan said:
If you want to demonstrate the "will to commit" then get outside, register voters and fundraise to support candidates.

Everything else is hot air.

Posting on the internet is true progressivism tho; its what Hassan told me in between my brunch dates

DeusOcha · Jun 25, 2022

Manmademan said:
If you want to demonstrate the "will to commit" then get outside, register voters and fundraise to support candidates.

Everything else is hot air.

Yes.

Alavard said:
This is a giant word salad to try to disguise that you're mad people here won't make calls for violence and get themselves banned. You're really enjoying the finger wagging, hypocritical as it is. If threatening violence is so important for you to see on this forum, do it yourself and eat the ban yourself.

What's hypocritical about it? I listed out three options for everyone here. Fight, get out, or sit on your ass. I chose the second since 2016 and worked my ass to make it a reality. The admin is more than welcome to ban me for my "extremism", I've been quite vocal about revolutionary change that require the blood and death of innocents amidst our current political apathy, because that's how progress has worked 100% time through human history; and we sure are not at an enlightened point to play civility with America being prime example. I've made these calls many times in the past. I just, y'know, focused on my actual real life to do something about it instead of wasting energy accruing Internet points on here hence my lack of post count despite my little "been here since Oct 2017" tag.

Edit: I'll even quote my "extremism" from before that still applies even today.

DeusOcha said:
The US isn't like most countries. The vast majority of its citizens trace ancestry to ancestors leaving their ancestral homes across oceans to arrive here; sometimes for leisure and opportunity, other times in flight of their ancestral homes. My ancestors came to this country fleeing from the effects of WW2, were they supposed to stand and fight and most likely die? Even in a non-wartime scenario were people seeking opportunity not supposed to leave their ancestral homes?

Atop that, just look at American history. This entire country is built off the blood, sweat, tears, and corpses of minorities and what have they gained from it? Just because a number of you have some misguided notion of "American nationalism" doesn't do away with the actual history and reality of this country.

Progress does not happen without blood and death.

Disco Infernal · Jun 25, 2022

Alavard said:
This is a giant word salad to try to disguise that you're mad people here won't make calls for violence and get themselves banned. You're really enjoying the finger wagging, hypocritical as it is. If threatening violence is so important for you to see on this forum, do it yourself and eat the ban yourself. Of course, then you wouldn't get to tone police here any more would you?

Ding ding ding. Theyre just a troll. A hypocritical, performative troll.

DeusOcha · Jun 25, 2022

Disco Infernal said:
Ding ding ding. Theyre just a troll. A hypocritical, performative troll.

I'm a very old ass troll then.

ironichaos · Jun 25, 2022

Sulik2 said:
The end game of this is pretty clear. If the GOP gets total power in 2024 we will see a national gay ban and "reduction camps" for LGBTQIA+ people setup. This country is nearly there.

It's not that far-fetched given how the Fox News propaganda network has already begun labeling the LGBTQ+ community as "groomers". Seeing how they dig their heels in once they find something to latch onto, it's only going to escalate from here.

Alavard · Jun 25, 2022

DeusOcha said:
Yes.

What's hypocritical about it? I listed out three options for everyone here. Fight, get out, or sit on your ass. I chose the second since 2016 and worked my ass to make it a reality. The admin is more than welcome to ban me for my "extremism", I've been quite vocal about revolutionary change that require the blood and death of innocents amidst our current political apathy, because that's how progress has worked 100% time through human history; and we sure are not at an enlightened point to play civility with America being prime example. I've made these calls many times in the past. I just, y'know, focused on my actual real life to do something about it instead of wasting energy accruing Internet points on here hence my lack of post count despite my little "been here since Oct 2017" tag.

Edit: I'll even quote my "extremism" from before that still applies even today.

Progress does not happen without blood and death.

You:

DeusOcha · Jun 25, 2022

Alavard said:
You:

Welcome to any progressive movement in history.

Kyuuji · Jun 25, 2022

DeusOcha said:
"I'd be banned for..." put up or shut up. You either commit to your values or you don't.

Put up what? What is it you want us to put up?

Arcus Felis · Jun 25, 2022

Too much in-fighting whereas people should unite and act as one (though the debates here about violence / non-violence does remind me of another cause and of Malcolm X / Martin Luther King).

Anyhow, venting on the internet is not going to do any good. The one thing we can all agree on is that action needs to be taken. If you haven't done so already, it might be a good idea to join LGBTQ+ associations, vote and try to change things. In a vacuum, all the arguments that happens on this website are meaningless. Go out, protest, vote, join a LGBTQ+ friendly media outlet, make your voice heard.

DeusOcha · Jun 25, 2022

Kyuuji said:
Put up what? What is it you want us to put up?

Like I've stated originally, commit to the values and prioritize them above whatever a niche Internet board has to say about them.

Alavard · Jun 25, 2022

Arcus Felis said:
Too much in-fighting whereas people should unite and act as one (though the debates here about violence / non-violence does remind me of another cause and of Malcolm X / Martin Luther King).

Anyhow, venting on the internet is not going to do any good. The one thing we can all agree on is that action needs to be taken. If you haven't done so already, it might be a good idea to join LGBTQ+ associations, vote and try to change things. In a vacuum, all the arguments that happens on this website is meaningless. Go out, protest, vote, join a LGBTQ+ friendly media outlet, make your voice heard.

I do want to use this as an opportunity to say I don't believe that violence is never necessary (we wouldn't be where we are today without Stonewall, for example). But especially as an outsider (I'm Canadian and have never even lived in the US), I can't exactly ask others to commit to additional physical risk when I'm not at the same risk myself.

Kyuuji · Jun 25, 2022

DeusOcha said:
Like I've stated originally, commit to the values and prioritize them above whatever a niche Internet board has to say about them.

This reads like you think resisting making calls for violence out of frustration in a post on this... 'niche internet board'... contradicts any commitment to values. Which would be a remarkably stupid point to try and make outside of someone whose entire commitment to a cause takes place within one, so I'll assume you're actually trying to make a smarter one.

Disco Infernal · Jun 25, 2022

DeusOcha said:
Like I've stated originally, commit to the values and prioritize them above whatever a niche Internet board has to say about them.

You first.

Alavard · Jun 25, 2022

DeusOcha said:
Welcome to any progressive movement in history.

Sacrificing marginalized people for your own safety is not progressive.

Sho_Nuff82 · Jun 25, 2022

Thordinson said:
It can't be retroactive.

Supreme Court: we'll let the states decide
States: it can be retroactive because our anti-abortion/anti-gay laws never technically came off the books https://www.motherjones.com/politic...as-a-radical-mission-to-reshape-american-law/

DeusOcha · Jun 25, 2022

Kyuuji said:
This reads like you think resisting talking about calls for violence out of frustration in a post on this... 'niche internet board'... contradicts any commitment to values. Which would be a remarkably stupid point to try and make outside of someone whose entire commitment to a cause takes place within one, so I'll assume you're actually trying to make a smarter one.

No the whole resistance to justified violence is just a minor facet I'm using here since that's the context of discussion. Like I've alluded, this forum has been tone deaf to progressivism for years and its always under the guise of maintaining civility amidst justified backlash to X social tragedy; Roe v Wade overturning backlash we are at right now is just another example on the list where ResetERA again values political infighting and apathetical mire to actually directing that immediate energy into something constructive even if it is just a niche Internet forum.

Disco Infernal said:
You first.

In what way? I already have under my definitions that I've laid out.

Alavard said:
Sacrificing marginalized people for your own safety is not progressive.

Well then we need a new word for this ideal of your's because it isn't progressivism.

Thordinson · Jun 25, 2022

Sho_Nuff82 said:
Supreme Court: we'll let the states decide
States: it can be retroactive because our anti-abortion/anti-gay laws never technically came off the books https://www.motherjones.com/politic...as-a-radical-mission-to-reshape-american-law/

Good luck with that. That's a pretty large hill for them to climb.

If they want to come after folks who have donated or helped abortion funds retroactively, they can try.

cyress8 · Jun 25, 2022

DeusOcha said:
values political infighting and apathetical mire to actually directing that immediate energy into something constructive even if it is just a niche Internet forum.

Can you name this something constructive that has not been said in this thread? Something that we are missing.

Kyuuji · Jun 25, 2022

DeusOcha said:
No the whole resistance to justified violence is just a minor facet I'm using here since that's the context of discussion. Like I've alluded, this forum has been tone deaf to progressivism for years and its always under the guise of maintaining civility amidst justified backlash to X social tragedy; Roe v Wade overturning backlash we are at right now is just another example on the list where ResetERA again values political infighting and apathetical mire to actually directing that immediate energy into something constructive even if it is just a niche Internet forum.

Except you directed your ire at people alluding to what they wish would happen to people instead of the administrators of the website. Isn't this where you would say put up or shut up...? If your contention is with the constraints within which the forum operates?

Or is it that when the sum total of your involvement is encased within this forum that you can't help but assume the same for everyone else, despite having no idea how active others here are outside of it. So you place a ridiculous amount of importance on whether they're willing to skirt the rules on a single post and use that to suggest they aren't willing to commit to any values.

When it's obvious that those people are toeing the line to save being moderated needlessly, and that that has no actual bearing on how they prioritise their values in life.

DeusOcha · Jun 25, 2022

Kyuuji said:
Except you directed your ire at people alluding to what they wish would happen to people instead of the administrators of the website. Isn't this where you would say put up or shut up...? If your contention is with the constraints within which the forum operates?

Or is it that when the sum total of your involvement is encased within this forum that you can't help but assume the same for everyone else, despite having no idea how active others here are outside of it. So you place a ridiculous amount of importance on whether they're willing to skirt the rules on a single post and use that to suggest they aren't willing to commit to any values.

Or they can, y'know, shutup. Because the wonders of shutting up is that you can direct that energy of being used to post to do something entirely different and most likely more applicable to the current situation. Personal anecdote, I've used GAF and later ResetERA as my political outlet and haven't even hit the halfway mark of participation I had on GAF despite being a member here for a near equal amount of time (one or two more years my time on ERA potentially would be greater to GAF), and that "political posting" did absolutely nothing but cause depression.

So I made the choice to shut up and work all that aggregate energy of potential posting into building the groundwork to get the fuck out of the country like I've been mouthing off for years. I committed, and now I am where I am.

So my call to action is that, yeah instead of playing this yearly game of punching each other despite being on the same team we all shut the fuck up and do something about it.

Kyuuji · Jun 25, 2022

DeusOcha said:
Or they can, y'know, shutup. Because the wonders of shutting up is that you can direct that energy of being used to post to do something entirety different and most likely more applicable to the current situation. Personal anecdote, I've used GAF and later ResetERA as my political outlet and haven't even hit the halfway mark of participation I had on GAF despite being a member here for a near equal amount of time (one or two more years my time on ERA potentially would be greater to GAF), and that "political posting" did absolutely nothing but cause depression.

So I made the choice to shut up and work all that aggregate energy of potential positing into building the groundwork to get the fuck out of the country like I've been mouthing off for years. I committed, and now I am where I am.

So my call to action is that, yeah instead of playing this yearly game of punching each other despite being on the same team we all shut the fuck up and do something about it.

Just to be clear, your concept of this...

my call to action is that, yeah instead of playing this yearly game of punching each other despite being on the same team

...is to go into niche internet boards and yell at people, telling them to shut up? You could like, just do that yourself first. Lead by example and all that.

DeusOcha · Jun 25, 2022

Kyuuji said:
Just to be clear, your concept of this...

...is to go into niche internet boards and yell at people, telling them to shut up?

Yup, because even for a niche Internet board y'all are still people with the potential of putting action to something. And being a nerd I'm biased towards nerds. And if nerds actually shut their mouths and used their irregular energy and passion upon the things they truly care about (hence my emphasis on values and commitment), I'd say change can happen without the whole blood and death I've referenced prior. But again, we don't. As this forum has shown on a regular basis us nerds' idea of a good time within politics is punching each other.

Charizard · Jun 25, 2022

darkwing said:
yes, same sex marriage will go down next unfortunately, it's going to be a mess whether the ruling would be retroactive and how is it going to be enforced

About 30 states have gay marriage bans in their constitution via amendments, including some blue states like California and Oregon. It's gonna be messy, especially if pre-Obergefell rulings in favor of gay marriage end up not applying. Dear lord.

There is also precedent for invalidating the marriages too because that actually happened in California back in 2004. Newsom (a mayor back then) allowed gay marriages for a bit until the state said "no" and invalidated the marriages. Either way it is gonna be a hot mess.

Kyuuji · Jun 25, 2022

DeusOcha said:
Yup, because even for a niche Internet board y'all are still people with the potential of putting action to something. And being a nerd I'm biased towards nerds. And if nerds actually shut their mouths and used their irregular energy and passion upon the things they truly care about (hence my emphasis on values and commitment), I'd say change can happen without the whole blood and death I've referenced prior. But again, we don't. As this forum has shown on a regular basis us nerds' idea of a good time within politics is punching each other.

Mmm...

the wonders of shutting up is that you can direct that energy of being used to post to do something entirety different

You either commit to your values or you don't.

DeusOcha · Jun 25, 2022

Kyuuji said:
You could like, just do that yourself first. Lead by example and all that.

And I have. Look at your date of joining relative to mine. We joined at the same time a month apart and I am led to believe you are also one of the folks part of the GAF migration. Now look at our post counts. I've been shutting up for a while now compared to you. And once I exhaust my energy upon the Roe v Wade debacle I will shut up for a good amount of time until the next time a social tragedy I'm invested in happens. And all those minutes of me not conjuring posts like I've done on this thread will have added up to improving something in my immediate environment.

I implore everyone to do the same instead of wasting so much damn energy and time punching each other on this damn forum whenever a tragedy hits.

Kyuuji · Jun 25, 2022

DeusOcha said:
once I exhaust my energy upon the Roe v Wade debacle I will shut up for a good amount of time

DrStrange87 · Jun 25, 2022

Choosing the route to move out of the country instead of fighting for what you think is right and then telling everyone still in said country to shut up and fight boggles my mind.

Foffy · Jun 25, 2022

Sulik2 said:
The end game of this is pretty clear. If the GOP gets total power in 2024 we will see a national gay ban and "reduction camps" for LGBTQIA+ people setup. This country is nearly there.

Just jail the gays and anyone who helps them in their lives, that sounds like the plan. Wouldn't be surprised they go all out and try to argue if DACA recipients are in poverty they get evicted from the United States. I still remember that being proposed as legislation a few years ago, too, even if it was for barely half of the day.

People really, really need to be made aware of the fascism problem we have. Even saying the GOP is worse than ISIS, a mere obvious fact, is seen as hyperbolic. Something's seriously wrong in terms of many peoples optics and understanding of how much deep shit we're in.

Pomerlaw · Jun 25, 2022

Unrivaled said:
Yes, in Canada both liberal and conservative people are saying this ruling is a joke.

Don't. You. EVER. Trust. CONSERVATIVES.

If Canada puts it's guard down WE ARE NEXT.

They have a PRO-LIFE candidate running for God's sake.

Doorman · Jun 25, 2022

Iztok said:
It's not a political issue, that's the thing.

It's a religious issue. And it seems to me like very few are willing to acknowledge that.

I disagree with this. What isn't being acknowledged is that religion (particularly large, organized religion like Evangelical Christianity that are driving a lot of this conservative wave) IS political. It's the "they're the same picture" Office meme. The practical goal of each structure is the same: influencing the behavior of the people who are living together within its society, the only difference is where the power to dictate those rules is derived from. In a(n ostensibly) democratic government, rules are decided via debate and representative consensus over what would best benefit society, while in religion it's based on leaders dictating rules justified by faith in some manner of supernatural being or power. Either way these systems can be hijacked by greed and personal ambitions, the very basis of corruption, and lately in both cases it's forced a rise in conservatism as a means to cut back the influence and resources of minorities and the under-privileged, so that those at the top can continue hoarding more for themselves.

Money and control, it all boils into the same core societal elements no matter which direction you're approaching it from. If people like Thomas weren't wielding religion as the bludgeon for their political allies, they'd use some other means to achieve the same ends. Whether he truly believes in the religiouis justification for it or if that's just a front to cement economic control, it does not matter in the end. That's what needs to be reckoned with.

Midramble · Jun 25, 2022

DeusOcha said:
Yes.

What's hypocritical about it? I listed out three options for everyone here. Fight, get out, or sit on your ass. I chose the second since 2016 and worked my ass to make it a reality. The admin is more than welcome to ban me for my "extremism", I've been quite vocal about revolutionary change that require the blood and death of innocents amidst our current political apathy, because that's how progress has worked 100% time through human history; and we sure are not at an enlightened point to play civility with America being prime example. I've made these calls many times in the past. I just, y'know, focused on my actual real life to do something about it instead of wasting energy accruing Internet points on here hence my lack of post count despite my little "been here since Oct 2017" tag.

Edit: I'll even quote my "extremism" from before that still applies even today.

Progress does not happen without blood and death.

Progress happens regularly in many other places without blood and death.

Justice Clarence Thomas Wants SCOTUS to 'Correct the Error' of Legal Gay Marriage

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