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Terminus

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
1,874
I can't believe people are batting for wikileaks

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2...ts-sensitive-medical-information-saudi-arabia

They assist Russia in spreading disinformation and protect the Kremlin
https://foreignpolicy.com/2017/08/1...-government-during-u-s-presidential-campaign/



(((SOROS))) isn't a red flag for yall?

More protecting Russia
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/25/world/europe/russian-documents-leaked-ddosecrets.html

"The documents include a voluminous archive of material hacked from Russia's Ministry of Internal Affairs that WikiLeaks had declined to publish in 2016, telling Foreign Policy magazinethe next year that it "rejects all submissions that it cannot verify" or that it finds "insignificant.""


It really could not be more obvious to anyone with two brain cells to rub together what their goals are, but Assange must still be charged in such a way as to not imperil legitimate journalists exposing the misdeeds of powerful institutions. If they hit him with the Espionage Act, that is some actually disturbing shit. My fear is that this is the avenue for Trump's DOJ to finally begin "opening up those libel laws" like he so desperately wants to do.
 

Deleted member 176

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
37,160
Assange's assertion was valid at the time: Trump didn't need his help looking bad.

I also believe, truly, that if had exclusively leaked anti-Trump material, people in this thread would be singing a very different tune. I try my best to view things as impartially as possible, but some of y'all are out for blood it seems.
you mean if he wasn't a sleezy dude who made the world worse at every opportunity, people wouldn't be happy to see him arrested? wild.
 

Deleted member 176

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
37,160
would so many have been cheering the death of bin laden if he had instead spent his entire life just making youtube videos about movies and video games he liked? perhaps you should reexamine your biases.
 

CampFreddie

A King's Landing
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,954
Well, if Ben Kingsley is too busy to appear in Iron Man 4, I think we've found our replacement. Looks like he'll be in America in time for filming too!
 

Irminsul

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,034
you mean if he wasn't a sleezy dude who made the world worse at every opportunity, people wouldn't be happy to see him arrested? wild.
Okay, which of these things do you think merits jail time exactly? Because if none of them do, I don't see why I should be happy about the arrest, seeing as it's very obviously for other reasons that I really don't want to support.
 
Sources listing controversial Wikileaks activity

Deleted member 283

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,288
Admittedly I don't know much about him but how is Wikileaks bad? it has exposed a lot of the countries political & military elite illegal dealings.
Can you cite some proof of that? You feeling a certain way about it does not make it so.
Wikileaks selectively leaking the Panama Papers to protect Russian interests and suddenly not caring about transparency:
https://foreignpolicy.com/2017/08/1...-government-during-u-s-presidential-campaign/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...e-russian-authors-say/?utm_term=.8bbe74e163d8
https://www.theguardian.com/news/20...ma-papers-as-an-attempt-to-destabilise-russia
https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/717458064324964352 (Also some antisemitism here, but I'll come back more to that one later)

Leaked Wikileaks emails proving that Assange did what he did to help Trump win:
https://thinkprogress.org/dump-of-w...on-assanges-conspiracy-theories-324923bf22a3/
https://theintercept.com/2018/02/14/julian-assange-wikileaks-election-clinton-trump/

Wikileaks twitter account posting stuff like Russian-propaganda conspiracy theories about MH17
https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/492033939142619136?lang=en

Now, unlike the Panama Papers connected to Russian interests, which Wikileaks chose not to leak, Wikileaks was suddenly interested in transparency again when it came to stuff like, say, leaking information regarding rape victims in Saudi Arabia and the identity of gay men:
https://www.theverge.com/2016/8/23/...rsonal-data-exposed-rape-victims-saudi-arabia
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2...ts-sensitive-medical-information-saudi-arabia
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...udi-arabia-homosexuality-arrest-a7206901.html
https://www.forbes.com/sites/emmawo...sing-tyranny-or-a-tyrant-itself/#1518bdab7034

And the information of every woman voter in Turkey:
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/wikileaks-erdogan-emails_b_11158792
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/20...-of-the-Female-Population-of-Turkey-Last-Week
http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2016...-most-of-turkeys-adult-female-population.html
https://www.wired.com/2016/07/wikileaks-officially-lost-moral-high-ground/

Oh, and there was also those times where Wikileaks posted blatantly anti-Semitic stuff like this:
https://slate.com/news-and-politics...ht-have-meant-by-that-anti-semitic-tweet.html
http://www.timesofisrael.com/wikile..._comment_id=1127039907342378_2005230816189945

The point being, Wikileaks under Assange was a thoroughly terrible organization not interested in transparency in any actual meaningful sense, not giving a damn who they hurt, and based on their selective interest in leaking information, what they do and don't leak, and the type of conspiracy nonsense posted to their Twitter, that they/Assange were very, very, very much connected to Russian interests. And that aside, the damage they did to Turkish and Saudi Arabian citizens with reckless release of information that serves no purpose at all other than to be damaging cannot be defended no matter how one feels about transparency (as it has nothing to do with transparency at all to begin with, as it's not useful to anything other than government interests in those countries and those that would wish to do harm at that information), especially with them giving up any claim to actually care about transparency regardless with their reaction to the Panama Papers.

Wikileaks under Assange was a terrible, terrible organization which was doing way too much harm to way too many people for those kinda reasons and more (as this naturally isn't even touching stuff like the rape accusations against Assange personally), but that stuff is a good starting point.
 

Dekim

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,300
I mean, I would cheer along with you all if Assange was being arrested for the rape charge in Sweden he skipped, but this appears not to be the case. Forgive me if I don't cheer that the Trump DOJ headed by a crony that's hiding the Mueller report is spearheading this effort.
 

Jadusable

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,020
User Banned (3 Days): Trolling and antagonistic behavior over multiple posts


Good. I hope this strikes fear into the heart of any would-be whistleblowers in the future speaking out against our government and like many others here I hope that the US government makes an example out of him. People that are calling this incredibly shortsighted and setting a terrible precedent for journalistic integrity just because he leaked some stuff that hurt the democrats get a major "yikes" from me - that kind of thinking is practically being alt right adjacent. He needs to pay for contributing to Hillary losing the election. We can worry about the cascading ramifications of this later.
 

Deleted member 176

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
37,160
Okay, which of these things do you think merits jail time exactly? Because if none of them do, I don't see why I should be happy about the arrest, seeing as it's very obviously for other reasons that I really don't want to support.
He's an instrument of Russian propaganda and probably committed sexual assault a few times on top of it.
 

Irminsul

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,034
would so many have been cheering the death of bin laden if he had instead spent his entire life just making youtube videos about movies and video games he liked? perhaps you should reexamine your biases.
That's a strawman. The assertion isn't that Julian Assange should've done something wildly different, but the same thing, just for a different team. After all, politics is just team sports nowadays, so that description fits pretty well.
Ok? This is about Wikileaks, an instrument for Russia, not some fantasy news outlet.
Okay? I said I'd rather have them biased than not at all. Fits pretty well for WikiLeaks, I'd say.
He's an instrument of Russian propaganda and probably committed sexual assault a few times on top of it.
He isn't charged with the sexual assault, though.
 

Deleted member 176

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
37,160
That's a strawman. The assertion isn't that Julian Assange should've done something wildly different, but the same thing, just for a different team. After all, politics is just team sports nowadays, so that description fits pretty well.
The thing is this isn't sports, it's real life, so both teams aren't the same. He made the world worse.
 

repeater

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,700
I mean, I would cheer along with you all if Assange was being arrested for the rape charge in Sweden he skipped, but this appears not to be the case. Forgive me if I don't cheer that the Trump DOJ headed by a crony that's hiding the Mueller report is spearheading this effort.
According to this thread, Assange can still be extradited to Sweden if Swedish authorities request it.
 

Irminsul

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,034
The thing is this isn't sports, it's real life, so both teams aren't the same. He made the world worse.
I agree that he did (eventually), but what exactly do you want to have him charged with? Making the world worse? Who is supposed to assess this?

I'm absolutely fine with him being charged for rape in Sweden or even hacking in the US if he did do that personally, but I can't just charge him with whatever just because he's a bad person.
 

rjinaz

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
28,394
Phoenix
Russians working for Vladimir Putin's government broke into the email account of John Podesta (Hillary Clinton's 2016 campaign chairman) via a phishing attack and gave them to Wikileaks, who published them to damage Hillary's campaign.

It should be noted that these were *not* emails from the private email server Hillary used as Secretary of State of Comey letter/"but her emails!" fame.
And wikileaks actively reached out to the Trump campaign in an attempt to coordinate. Trump knew about the emails before they were released, because he even hinted at an event something was about to happen. Stone and Jr both talked to wikileaks on twitter. And we have Donald himself saying he "loves wikileaks" because of course he did, they were releasing emails to help him get elected.

If you read the last two years of wikileak tweets they read as Russian and Trump propaganda. He is nothing but a useful asset. As a reminder, only one party in the US was attacked by wikileaks. They never touched Reublicans in a realistically harmful way.

Maybe at one time wikileaks was actually doing a good thing, but that ship has long sailed once Russia seems to have bought them off.

Assange doesn't want to be brought to the US by ANY president. It has nothing to do with "fearing Trump".
 

CaviarMeths

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
10,655
Western Canada
The fanbase that self-serving, disingenuous assholes like Assange and Greenwald have accumulated on the left will never make any sense to me.

That said, he should not be extradited to the US if there's any chance he faces the death penalty. He should answer for his crimes, but not via medieval, barbaric practices like capital punishment.
 

plagiarize

Eating crackers
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
27,511
Cape Cod, MA
That's a strawman. The assertion isn't that Julian Assange should've done something wildly different, but the same thing, just for a different team. After all, politics is just team sports nowadays, so that description fits pretty well.
If Wikileaks had leaked *everything* they were given, when they were given it, that'd be one thing.

But they didn't. They selectively leaked things that just so happened to work in Russia's interests and didn't leak things that didn't. Oh, also they didn't just let the document dumps speak for themselves, they editorialized them to maximise their effect. Oh, and they didn't release them when they had them, they timed and staggered their releases so as to cause maximum effect.

What they did is the same as the National Enquirer burying stories that could hurt Trump.

This isn't just the an editorial bias type of situation.
 

rjinaz

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
28,394
Phoenix
Assange's assertion was valid at the time: Trump didn't need his help looking bad.

I also believe, truly, that if had exclusively leaked anti-Trump material, people in this thread would be singing a very different tune. I try my best to view things as impartially as possible, but some of y'all are out for blood it seems.
Well he didn't so get out of here with your "both sides" hypothetical nonsense. It's always amusing to see moderates imagine what Democrats, given some circumstances, would really be like, while Republicans actively do that behavior. A reminder that the President was cheering on wikileaks before you say "which Republicans?"
 

OrdinaryPrime

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
11,042


I'm all for admiring Snowden for what he did, but the more he hides out in Russia and actively makes tweets like this ignoring someone being charged with fucking rape, the more my stomach twists with distaste.

https://twitter.com/KimDotcom/status/1116294338726612992
Telling the world the TRUTH about war crimes, human rights abuses, corruption, election fraud and abuses of power IS NOT A CRIME.

What about rape?

Good. I hope this strikes fear into the heart of any would-be whistleblowers in the future speaking out against our government and like many others here I hope that the US government makes an example out of him. People that are calling this incredibly shortsighted and setting a terrible precedent for journalistic integrity just because he leaked some stuff that hurt the democrats get a major "yikes" from me - that kind of thinking is practically being alt right adjacent. He needs to pay for contributing to Hillary losing the election. We can worry about the cascading ramifications of this later.

You are fucking scary. Whistleblowers are important.
 

Tracygill

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
1,853
The Left
Good. I hope this strikes fear into the heart of any would-be whistleblowers in the future speaking out against our government and like many others here I hope that the US government makes an example out of him. People that are calling this incredibly shortsighted and setting a terrible precedent for journalistic integrity just because he leaked some stuff that hurt the democrats get a major "yikes" from me - that kind of thinking is practically being alt right adjacent. He needs to pay for contributing to Hillary losing the election. We can worry about the cascading ramifications of this later.


I believe murdering foreigners IS the nazi( alt right) position.
 

Naphu

Member
Apr 6, 2018
729
Assange's assertion was valid at the time: Trump didn't need his help looking bad.

I also believe, truly, that if had exclusively leaked anti-Trump material, people in this thread would be singing a very different tune. I try my best to view things as impartially as possible, but some of y'all are out for blood it seems.

Oh, so all the outrage the past 3 yrs over Trump campaign individuals reaching out to benefit from Russian hacking was really just projection! ic ic Everyone actually wishes Hillary could have conspired with a hostile foreign government and are just mad. You cracked it. Democrats now trying to enact corruption reform legislation is actually to throw us off the trail. But your impartial eyes can see over the clouds from above that it's BOTH sides that are corrupt. Enlightened.
 

Deleted member 176

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
37,160
I agree that he did (eventually), but what exactly do you want to have him charged with? Making the world worse? Who is supposed to assess this?

I'm absolutely fine with him being charged for rape in Sweden or even hacking in the US if he did do that personally, but I can't just charge him with whatever just because he's a bad person.
I'd be happy with him being charged for rape as well. Whatever ends up putting him in jail, if they're arresting him I assume they have a case.
 

OrdinaryPrime

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
11,042
Assange's assertion was valid at the time: Trump didn't need his help looking bad.

I also believe, truly, that if had exclusively leaked anti-Trump material, people in this thread would be singing a very different tune. I try my best to view things as impartially as possible, but some of y'all are out for blood it seems.

I've read many of your responses in political threads. You are not impartial. You like to play devil's advocate. Don't conflate the two.

They're being sarcastic.

I hope so!
 

anastiel

Banned
Mar 14, 2019
639
I'm all for admiring Snowden for what he did, but the more he hides out in Russia and actively makes tweets like this ignoring someone being charged with fucking rape, the more my stomach twists with distaste.



What about rape?



You are fucking scary. Whistleblowers are important.


One: "The allegation of rape would not be rape under English law"
This is flatly untrue. The Assange legal team argued this twice before English courts, and twice the English courts ruled clearly that the allegation would also constitute rape under English law.
http://jackofkent.com/2012/06/assange-would-the-rape-allegation-also-be-rape-under-english-law/
 

OrdinaryPrime

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
11,042
One: "The allegation of rape would not be rape under English law"
This is flatly untrue. The Assange legal team argued this twice before English courts, and twice the English courts ruled clearly that the allegation would also constitute rape under English law.
http://jackofkent.com/2012/06/assange-would-the-rape-allegation-also-be-rape-under-english-law/

That site doesn't load for me. Also I assume you have a typo in your post. He should be tried under Swedish law. He fled instead.

Exactly, but people on this forum are against whistleblowers in general.

Why do you say this? This thread has been pretty anti-Assange but not because of his whistleblowing tendencies. But for having political reasons why. That's where the issue lies for me. If you're going to be a whistleblower, picking and choosing the information and when to release it to make it more damaging to one political faction over another seems to be a bit antithetical.

All I'll say is I'd rather leaked information and transparency on one side than on no sides at all.

This is a false choice. There shouldn't be the need to choose between only these two options.
 

Irminsul

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,034
I'd be happy with him being charged for rape as well. Whatever ends up putting him in jail, if they're arresting him I assume they have a case.
Yes, but the thing I'm arguing is that there are charges I'd rather not seeing him going to jail for. I know it'll never be that clear cut, but I'd rather see him go free than this whole thing having a chilling effect on future whistleblowers that choose to not leak stuff out of fear of repercussions.
 
Nov 9, 2017
3,777
Snowden, who saw no difference between Trump and Clinton. So who the fuck cares what he thinks.

Holy shit, I knew some of you guys were going to turn against Snowden if he didn't 100% follow along party lines. Its like do you guys really like whistle-blowers and the truth they bring, or really just want to use them as a one-sided political tool?
 

Deleted member 3208

Oct 25, 2017
11,934
Excellent news. That fucker should have been rotting in jail a long time ago. Although, considering he has been holed up inside the Ecuadorian Embassy all these years, you could say he was already imprisoned by his own volition.
 

Deleted member 888

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,361
Assange founded WikiLeaks in 2006, and came to international attention in 2010, when WikiLeaks published a series of leaks provided by Chelsea Manning. These leaks included the Collateral Murder video (April 2010),[3][4] the Afghanistan war logs (July 2010), the Iraq war logs (October 2010), and CableGate (November 2010). Following the 2010 leaks, the federal government of the United States launched a criminal investigation into WikiLeaks and asked allied nations for assistance.[5]

Can't knock that. Anything on state surveillance and illegal wars being leaked is one of the few ways to be a whistleblower on corrupt Government actions.

All the stuff on the US elections obviously gets messy and less straightforward to frame positively.