Judge in Ohio orders Cinci hospital to treat COVID-19 patient with Ivermectin, despite CDC warnings

Random Painted Highway · Aug 30, 2021

Obviously the hospital is going to mandamus the judge on this and hopefully get it stayed by the court of appeals and Ohio supreme court.

That said, 30mg for 21 days seems like quite a lot. Looks like the recommended dosage for a 180lb person is 15mg every three months, unless I'm reading this incorrectly, though I'm guessing this guy weighed well more than that upon hospital admittance-he's probably down a few pounds now. https://www.rxlist.com/stromectol-drug.htm#dosage

because this is human-grade it won't have as many of the issues as livestock-grade, but the dosage is high.

Ghgghggh · Aug 30, 2021

grand said:
Lmao

Dude your ignorance is showing. Go do some research please.

State of new York allows medical doctors to get licensed in acupuncture. Many insurence companies cover it. China has been using it for 1000s of years w good results [unless you are one of those people who think all non western practices are merely superstition then lmao at you]

jroc74 · Aug 30, 2021

DarthWoo said:
Basically a win-win for the crazies. If he happens to recover, he was probably going to have recovered anyway, but they can claim it was the horse paste. If he dies, they can claim the hospital waited too long and he would have lived but for want of horse paste.

Reading this just reminded my fucking insane all this is.

Reading how you have horse paste in this context has my in tears.....

I am laughing my ass off, and I dont know if its just for the hilariousness of it or I'm going insane.....

Version 3.0 · Aug 30, 2021

jroc74 said:
So there is no way someone can sue to force ppl, potential patients to get vaccinated ....but ppl can sue to force hospitals to give ivermectin to their family.

Feels like we're getting closer to mandatory ivermectin poisoning than mandatory vaccination, in some places at least, doesn't it?

edit: I told my wife this story, and she said the solution was simple: take the guy to a veterinarian, duh.

Lord Azrael · Aug 30, 2021

bonesawisready5 said:
I supppose you're right, it just worries me to see ppl like this. They need real help beyond the fact that the spouse is in the hospital with COVID.

Most definitely. Won't disagree with you there

Yokijirou · Aug 30, 2021

Loudninja said:
Apparently this happen before

After court order, Elmhurst Hospital says it’s allowing COVID-19 patient to receive controversial drug ivermectin

An attorney for Elmhurst Hospital said at a court hearing Tuesday that a patient whose daughter sued to procure a controversial treatment for COVID-19 has begun to receive the medication. The lawye…

www.chicagotribune.com

been reading up on this and I feel like she was there since like April and was on the vent in early May. They dosed her up for almost 11 times of IVM over a three week span and wasn't off the vent until mid of Jun.

Im not sure if this is what people want to use as evidence that ivermectin works but they'll scream it anyway.

Landy828 · Aug 30, 2021

LOL

Good luck with that.

You're still statistically likely to survive CoVID, so introducing something like this (with a court order/allowance), doesn't mean it saved you even if you survive.

The vaccine would have most likely kept you from EVER having to go through any of this in the first place.

grand · Aug 30, 2021

Ghgghggh said:
Dude your ignorance is showing. Go do some research please.

State of new York allows medical doctors to get licensed in acupuncture. Many insurence companies cover it. China has been using it for 1000s of years w good results [unless you are one of those people who think all non western practices are merely superstition then lmao at you]

There's enough issues with anti-vax stuff & anti-science attitudes right now without people adding pseudoscience to it too. There's nothing helpful in you derailing the thread with that kind of stuff.

hurlex · Aug 30, 2021

I mean my initial reaction is what the fuck, but if a medically licensed doctor prescribed the medicine, why should the hospital be able to deny them that?

The doctor seems full of shit and probably lose their license.

HamSandwich · Aug 30, 2021

So not only is he going to die, but he's going to die with a shit ton of worms. Wtf.

anexanhume · Aug 30, 2021

Ghgghggh said:
A little OT:

This quote is out of line. Many holistic medical practices are evidence based - ie herbs, acupuncture and others.

What you dont seem to understand is Medicine is ruled by pharma- they dictate what is taught in medical school and the non pharmaceutical healing modalities are not where their profits live and so it is not taught. Since doctors are not taught it, many choose to belive it is because these modalities dont work. If only actual medical outcomes dictated research and education rather than profit first, our treatment options would be more vast and effective.

In a way medicine as it is taught and practice and regulated is a type of quackery.

The context of my argument makes it quite clear I'm talking about specific deceptive practices.

There's a false bifurcation in your argument. Herbs don't exist in contrast to established medicine. Aspirin, arguably one of the most important over the counter drugs, is originally derived from a plant. This is true for many other mass produced OTC remedies.

There's also a false implication that holistic medicines are immune to exploitation by large corporations. That's certainly not true, and this area of medicine is even exploited to the point that MLM schemes exist around it. Essential oils is one example of an offshoot that is not only ineffective but downright dangerous.

An entire industry, chiropractics, is allowed to exist with the appearance of professionalism with licensing bodies despite no conclusive evidence of efficacy.

Medicine is not a practice that exists at the whims of big pharma and insurance companies. Yes, it's broken in many ways, particularly the United States, but it's not some nefarious cabal out to suppress miracle home remedies and practices.

To be completely pedantic about it, holistic/alternative medicine, is in its very definition medicine that is untested or untestable for outcomes. Acupuncture is a good class of therapy you identified that actually has tested positive outcomes in a variety of scenarios. Thus, it becomes accepted and can just be considered medicine.

808s & Villainy · Aug 30, 2021

Nepenthe said:
Let these people exercise the freedom to kill themselves.

If only they weren't taking up ICU beds and hospital resources and could just do this shit at home

PeakPointMatrix · Aug 30, 2021

How far will we fall?

Beer Monkey · Aug 30, 2021

Ghgghggh said:
Dude your ignorance is showing. Go do some research please.

State of new York allows medical doctors to get licensed in acupuncture. Many insurence companies cover it. China has been using it for 1000s of years w good results [unless you are one of those people who think all non western practices are merely superstition then lmao at you]

Acupuncture is quackery and I say this as someone with a close friend who's father is an MD that left medicine to practice acupuncture.

anexanhume · Aug 30, 2021

Beer Monkey said:
Acupuncture is quackery and I say this as someone with a close friend who's father is an MD that left medicine to practice acupuncture.

Acupuncture has limited areas of applicability, but it's not complete hogwash. I contest most of the argument though and outlined it in my comment above.

Clinical trials of acupuncture: consensus recommendations for optimal treatment, sham controls and blinding - PubMed

Evidence of effectiveness is increasingly used to determine which health technologies are incorporated into public health provision. Acupuncture is a popular therapy that has been shown to be superior to placebo in the treatment of nausea and dental pain, and promising for migraine and...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

onadesertedisland · Aug 30, 2021

How long until Greg Abbott gets the idea to have mandatory stockpiles of ivermectin in Texas classrooms?

Supercrap · Aug 30, 2021

anexanhume said:
Acupuncture has limited areas of applicability, but it's not complete hogwash. I contest most of the argument though and outlined it in my comment above.

Clinical trials of acupuncture: consensus recommendations for optimal treatment, sham controls and blinding - PubMed

Evidence of effectiveness is increasingly used to determine which health technologies are incorporated into public health provision. Acupuncture is a popular therapy that has been shown to be superior to placebo in the treatment of nausea and dental pain, and promising for migraine and...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I think the problem is people trying to extend the tested positive outcomes on limited scenarios to untested conditions and things like viruses. You're not going to be able to fight cancer or covid with it

anexanhume · Aug 30, 2021

Supercrap said:
I think the problem is people trying to extend the tested positive outcomes on limited scenarios to untested conditions and things like viruses. You're not going to be able to fight cancer or covid with it

Agreed, but I don't think anyone here is making that specific claim. Thinking a condition that involves foreign agents (bacteria, fungal, viral, carcinogen, toxin, etc.) and/or errant cell processes (cancer, autoimmune) can be treated solely with external medicine (something that is not ingested, aspirated or injected) is rather asinine.

Joni · Aug 30, 2021

Let the other doctor do it, and let them sign papers the other doctor is fully liable.

TKM · Aug 30, 2021

Why does the hospital have to administer anything prescribed by a doctor who is outside their system? Not an employee or contracted to perform services for them? Maybe I'm not understanding medical law.

Otherwise, release the patient to the quack doctor, with family signoff, and let him administer the horse medicine.

onadesertedisland · Aug 30, 2021

TKM said:
Why does the hospital have to administer anything prescribed by a doctor who is outside their system? Not an employee or contracted to perform services for them? Maybe I'm not understanding medical law.

Otherwise, release the patient to the quack doctor, with family signoff, and let him administer the horse medicine.

Absolutely should release the patient to the quack doctor and ban them from the premises.

Cbrun44 · Aug 30, 2021

Honestly, let the idiot have it. It's on the doc, the wife and the judge. Then the hospital should do all in its legal power to terminate that doctors employment. There's no help for any of them.

TRS8088 · Aug 30, 2021

So uh on the 'Statement of Facts' document, number 18... they claim the hospital let the patient's sedation drug to run out? They woke up and pulled their own tube out causing additional problems? Sounds like a nightmare. And maybe a lawsuit in itself if true?

Boclfon479 · Aug 30, 2021

wouldn't giving a patient a fake cure that can seriously injure or kill them go against the doctor's hippocratic oath?

RailWays · Aug 30, 2021

Sounds like a easy way for a hospital to open itself up to malpractice lawsuits

The Real Abed · Aug 30, 2021

They can order all the want but I hope no self-respecting doctor or nurse would agree to go through with it. I'd rather resign from the hospital and let one of the terrible doctors do the procedure. Let them be the one responsible for killing a patient faster than they already were dying.

SFLUFAN · Aug 30, 2021

RailWays said:
Sounds like a easy way for a hospital to open itself up to malpractice lawsuits

If the hospital makes the spouse sign a veritable mountain of legal disclaimers and releases, then there is no basis for a malpractice suit.

RowdyReverb · Aug 30, 2021

Why do people feel like their doctor would withhold a working treatment? I have an open mind for novel treatments for COVID, but show me some robust evidence. We all saw how Plaquenil turned out

hwalker84 · Aug 30, 2021

Let them kill themselves and absolve the hospital of all wrong doing. I truly don't give a shit about these people anymore.

III-V · Aug 30, 2021

Random Painted Highway said:
Obviously the hospital is going to mandamus the judge on this and hopefully get it stayed by the court of appeals and Ohio supreme court.

That said, 30mg for 21 days seems like quite a lot. Looks like the recommended dosage for a 180lb person is 15mg every three months, unless I'm reading this incorrectly, though I'm guessing this guy weighed well more than that upon hospital admittance-he's probably down a few pounds now. https://www.rxlist.com/stromectol-drug.htm#dosage

because this is human-grade it won't have as many of the issues as livestock-grade, but the dosage is high.

If that is accurate the doctor is criminally negligent.

LongDongJunon · Aug 30, 2021

The judge can shove this ruling along with some Ivermectin straight up their own ass.

III-V · Aug 30, 2021

RowdyReverb said:
Why do people feel like their doctor would withhold a working treatment? I have an open mind for novel treatments for COVID, but show me some robust evidence. We all saw how Plaquenil turned out

They are still pushing hydroxychloroquine. For a $90 consultation fee, you can get a prescription online, and have it delivered to your door.

walkinfast · Aug 30, 2021

The only thing this is going to do is give red meat to the right wing nutjob base. Now they will all go to court to get this for their treatment.

"They did it in Ohio, so they can do it here", basically

SilentSoldier · Aug 30, 2021

TRS8088 said:
So uh on the 'Statement of Facts' document, number 18... they claim the hospital let the patient's sedation drug to run out? They woke up and pulled their own tube out causing additional problems? Sounds like a nightmare. And maybe a lawsuit in itself if true?

Spontaneous breathing trials happen all the time while patients are on the ventilator. We lower their sedation medications in an effort to see if they can breath on their own. It's a method to try to get these people off ventilation since the longer one is on a vent, the harder it is to take them off of it and also comes with its own set of communications. As you can expect, people coming off sedation to find out they have a tube stuck in their throat can be quite jarring and things like this can happen. Sometimes we keep the tube out and patients do fine, and sometimes, they need to be reintubated.

entremet · Aug 30, 2021

This country is incredibly dumb. I didn't know how dumb it was until Trump and Covid.

C.Mongler · Aug 30, 2021

If I ever end up on my deathbed in Ohio I'm going to demand they treat me with LSD since I guess there's a precedent for getting to make up your own treatment now!

Thorn · Aug 30, 2021

Let them poison themselves and shit out their intestines IDGAF anymore.

thesoapster · Aug 30, 2021

Edit: nvm he wanted to take it. Still no justification in this circumstance.

nihilence · Aug 30, 2021

My wife is a pharmacist and says filling is 50/50 responsibility and last call is pharmacist. They have license and go by guidelines, and have denied obvious quack scripts.

Nepenthe · Aug 30, 2021

nihilence said:
My wife is a pharmacist and says filling is 50/50 responsibility and last call is pharmacist. They have license and go by guidelines, and have denied obvious quack scripts.

Yep. We've already denied some ivermectin ones from bumpkin ass doctors. So stupid.

Ghgghggh · Aug 30, 2021

anexanhume said:
The context of my argument makes it quite clear I'm talking about specific deceptive practices.

There's a false bifurcation in your argument. Herbs don't exist in contrast to established medicine. Aspirin, arguably one of the most important over the counter drugs, is originally derived from a plant. This is true for many other mass produced OTC remedies.

There's also a false implication that holistic medicines are immune to exploitation by large corporations. That's certainly not true, and this area of medicine is even exploited to the point that MLM schemes exist around it. Essential oils is one example of an offshoot that is not only ineffective but downright dangerous.

An entire industry, chiropractics, is allowed to exist with the appearance of professionalism with licensing bodies despite no conclusive evidence of efficacy.

Medicine is not a practice that exists at the whims of big pharma and insurance companies. Yes, it's broken in many ways, particularly the United States, but it's not some nefarious cabal out to suppress miracle home remedies and practices.

To be completely pedantic about it, holistic/alternative medicine, is in its very definition medicine that is untested or untestable for outcomes. Acupuncture is a good class of therapy you identified that actually has tested positive outcomes in a variety of scenarios. Thus, it becomes accepted and can just be considered medicine.

I really appreciate your post. Very thoughtful and respectful. I agree with your statements as well.

R0b1n · Aug 30, 2021

Ghgghggh said:
A little OT:

This quote is out of line. Many holistic medical practices are evidence based - ie herbs, acupuncture and others.

What you dont seem to understand is Medicine is ruled by pharma- they dictate what is taught in medical school and the non pharmaceutical healing modalities are not where their profits live and so it is not taught. Since doctors are not taught it, many choose to belive it is because these modalities dont work. If only actual medical outcomes dictated research and education rather than profit first, our treatment options would be more vast and effective.

In a way medicine as it is taught and practice and regulated is a type of quackery.

Where do you think the pharma medicines come from.

Beer Monkey · Aug 30, 2021

walkinfast said:
The only thing this is going to do is give red meat to the right wing nutjob base. Now they will all go to court to get this for their treatment.

"They did it in Ohio, so they can do it here", basically

It already happened outside Chicago before it happened outside Cincinnati.

Anyone here who thinks that this can't happen with a rural/red county judge in NY or CA doesn't really understand the divide in the USA.

Rotkehle · Aug 30, 2021

Meanwhile… the rest of the world looks confused at the US. Trump is gone and the craziness is going on and on and on…

psynergyadept · Aug 30, 2021

Fuck it, let them die while they shit out their intestines….absolutely ridiculous..

onadesertedisland · Aug 30, 2021

Ghgghggh said:
A little OT:

This quote is out of line. Many holistic medical practices are evidence based - ie herbs, acupuncture and others.

What you dont seem to understand is Medicine is ruled by pharma- they dictate what is taught in medical school and the non pharmaceutical healing modalities are not where their profits live and so it is not taught. Since doctors are not taught it, many choose to belive it is because these modalities dont work. If only actual medical outcomes dictated research and education rather than profit first, our treatment options would be more vast and effective.

In a way medicine as it is taught and practice and regulated is a type of quackery.

This sounds like it belongs on someone's uncle's Facebook.

R0b1n · Aug 30, 2021

onadesertedisland said:
This sounds like it belongs on someone's uncle's Facebook.

Nah, it's more like hippies. Uncles are the ones claiming their natural immune system can fight off a horse

RowdyReverb · Aug 30, 2021

III-V said:
They are still pushing hydroxychloroquine. For a $90 consultation fee, you can get a prescription online, and have it delivered to your door.

It's honestly insulting at this point. It's so frustrating to try to care for a public who feels that an internet connection is a viable substitute for the decade of training doctors in the US require. The rampant anti-intellectualism here just makes me want to move to another planet entirely. It's no wonder so many doctors are burning out this year

Ghgghggh said:
A little OT:

This quote is out of line. Many holistic medical practices are evidence based - ie herbs, acupuncture and others.

What you dont seem to understand is Medicine is ruled by pharma- they dictate what is taught in medical school and the non pharmaceutical healing modalities are not where their profits live and so it is not taught. Since doctors are not taught it, many choose to belive it is because these modalities dont work. If only actual medical outcomes dictated research and education rather than profit first, our treatment options would be more vast and effective.

In a way medicine as it is taught and practice and regulated is a type of quackery.

Is this an actual take?

foxuzamaki · Aug 30, 2021

Fucking hell

medinaria · Aug 30, 2021

Random Painted Highway said:
Obviously the hospital is going to mandamus the judge on this and hopefully get it stayed by the court of appeals and Ohio supreme court.

That said, 30mg for 21 days seems like quite a lot. Looks like the recommended dosage for a 180lb person is 15mg every three months, unless I'm reading this incorrectly, though I'm guessing this guy weighed well more than that upon hospital admittance-he's probably down a few pounds now. https://www.rxlist.com/stromectol-drug.htm#dosage

because this is human-grade it won't have as many of the issues as livestock-grade, but the dosage is high.

this is worth quoting and repeating, I feel

people are taking horse paste because human-grade ivermectin requires a prescription (and is hard to find because there's a bunch of people out trying to get it). there is human-grade ivermectin. this is not some like "court mandates hospital kill patient with horse drug" ruling

it's similar to the shit with hydroxychloroquine last year, where there's actually a human-grade version but people were out drinking fish tank cleaner and getting themselves killed because they couldn't get it. if this is upheld or obeyed, the most likely result is... nothing, really. the dude gets his ivermectin, he probably dies anyway from covid, world keeps spinning. to the extent that there's a long-term issue here, it's with the idea that you'd be able to basically just get some random doctor somewhere to say "I say you should do <x>" and any admitting hospital is required to do it, which seems like a pretty dangerous precedent if it becomes more common

Judge in Ohio orders Cinci hospital to treat COVID-19 patient with Ivermectin, despite CDC warnings

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