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Oct 27, 2017
45,234
Seattle
https://q13fox.com/2019/02/04/judge...essor-in-sex-abuse-case-with-67-year-old-man/

LEAVENWORTH, Kan. – A Kansas judge gave a 67-year-old man convicted of soliciting a minor a reduced prison sentence and said the two female victims – a 13-year-old and a 14-year-old – were the "aggressor."

Raymond Soden used Facebook to contact the girls, offering money for nude photos and sexual favors, according to The Kansas City Star.

Leavenworth County District Judge Michael Gibbens said at Soden's sentencing on Tuesday that the girls were at fault for going to Soden's house on their own. He also noted that they did not show up at the sentencing to give an impact statement.

"I do find that the victims in this case, in particular, were more an aggressor than a participant in the criminal conduct," the paper reports Judge Gibbens saying. "They were certainly selling things monetarily that it's against the law for even an adult to sell."

Seems like we have a ways to go I'm some courts
 

CallMeShaft

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
3,362
I don't care if a bunch of teenage girls started a pillow fight in his front yard. If he bought or attempted to buy child pornography, then he deserves to have the book thrown at him.

Don't go blaming teenagers for acting as stupid as teenagers typically are.
 

Verelios

Member
Oct 26, 2017
14,877
I don't care if a bunch of teenage girls started a pillow fight in his front yard. If he bought or attempted to buy child pornography, then he deserves to have the book thrown at him.

Don't go blaming teenagers for acting as stupid as teenagers typically are.
Yeah, there's a reason why the law stipulates kids as minors, which makes this ruling all the more fucked.
 

SolidSnakex

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,391
It gets even worse when you read more on what the judge said about the girls

According to a statement the younger girl gave to authorities, she felt "uncomfortable" about an incident where there had been physical contact.

"And so she's uncomfortable for something she voluntarily went to, voluntarily took her top off of, and was paid for?" Judge Gibbens asked the prosecutor.

"Yes, judge. She was also a 13-year-old who under our laws can't consent to anything," said Lowdon, the prosecutor handling the case.

The judge said he understood that, but told the prosecutor, "I wonder what kind of trauma there really was to this victim under those peculiar circumstances."

At the sentencing hearing, the judge said he was "pretty familiar" with the girls already and that, based on what he knew about them, he believed it was possible that they could have set Soden up to be robbed.

The judge said the case was "bizarre" and "unfathomable," and that the girls, particularly the youngest, were in a vulnerable situation.

He also said that the fact that the girls did not appear in court to speak at the sentencing was one of the reasons he believed that they didn't suffer the level of harm typically seen in such cases.

"I think that a 13-year-old who offered what she offered for money is certainly an aggressor, particularly since she's the one that had to travel to Mr. Soden," the judge said.
 

BrassDragon

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,154
The Netherlands
The judge implies he has prior knowledge of the victims ('pretty familiar')... is he allowed to bring that knowledge into his argument if it was never part of the court case and the prosecutor has no chance to address it? Not a lawyer, but that feels off.
 
Oct 25, 2017
972
The judge implies he has prior knowledge of the victims ('pretty familiar')... is he allowed to bring that knowledge into his argument if it was never part of the court case and the prosecutor has no chance to address it? Not a lawyer, but that feels off.
The entire thing is "off".

Someone really needs to start investigating this creepy ass judge.

He knows kids can't legally consent and made this ruling anyway.
 

Galkinator

Chicken Chaser
Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,960
When a judge drops a verdict like that, can nothing be done? Can't he be investigated for sheer incompetence and reaching a completely delusional, dangerous conclusion such as this? What the fuck.
 

Bob Beat

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,916
"I do find that the victims in this case, in particular, were more an aggressor than a participant in the criminal conduct," the paper reports Judge Gibbens saying. "They were certainly selling things monetarily that it's against the law for even an adult to sell."

The judge also said he was "pretty familiar" with the girls and wouldn't rule out the defense attorney's claim that they were trying to set Soden up to rob him.

If you know them, shouldn't you recuse yourself?
 

Apathy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,992
Wonder why the judge is so familiar with the girls. Really should be looked into.

Also, wouldn't surprise me if the girls were black. Whenever some jackass like this refers to kids as the aggressors, usually a dog whistle to refer to black kids. They're kids for goodness sake, this sicko was trying to get sexual favors from them.
 

EdibleKnife

Member
Oct 29, 2017
7,723
Someone needs to start looking into this judge. All these motherfuckers are projecting. You know he's looking out for his own kind.
100%. People who want to blame teenagers for coming on strong to a man 5 times their age are not looking at those teenagers as children but as sexual beings. That's a fucking problem.
 

Smitington

Member
Oct 27, 2017
633
Denver
User Banned (1 day): victim blaming
Sexually aggressive children are absolutely a thing, but most of the time it's the result of past abuse.
 

HardRojo

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,131
Peru
You just know damn well this judge is frothing at the thought of getting some time alone with those girls. Fucking sick fucker.
 

Kernel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,888
It's like the judge is Roy Moore, they need to look into his case history and do something.
 

Fiction

Fanthropologist
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,776
Elf Tower, New Mexico
cz2GHOe.gif
 

Smitington

Member
Oct 27, 2017
633
Denver
Yes, I read the link. I wasn't saying I agreed with the judge, or that it was the childrens fault, I'm just talking from my experience as a foster parent that some kids have sexualized behavior from past abuse.

The article really doesn't give any details to the judges thinking or provide information as to what the evidence of the case is. What the article does provide is eyebrow rasing, but not enough information is provided for me to make an informed opinion.
 

Nacho

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,115
NYC
The judge implies he has prior knowledge of the victims ('pretty familiar')... is he allowed to bring that knowledge into his argument if it was never part of the court case and the prosecutor has no chance to address it? Not a lawyer, but that feels off.
Especially since the girls didn't show up themselves. If he knows them and doesn't have a positive view of them, and they're not showing up to their own court case with him as judge... There's a lot of blanks that can be filled in...
 

Deleted member 23212

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
11,225
Yes, I read the link. I wasn't saying I agreed with the judge, or that it was the childrens fault, I'm just talking from my experience as a foster parent that some kids have sexualized behavior from past abuse.

The article really doesn't give any details to the judges thinking or provide information as to what the evidence of the case is. What the article does provide is eyebrow rasing, but not enough information is provided for me to make an informed opinion.
From what I can tell the man did this willingly, so I don't understand why the girls were considered to be aggressors.
 

EdibleKnife

Member
Oct 29, 2017
7,723
Yes, I read the link. I wasn't saying I agreed with the judge, or that it was the childrens fault, I'm just talking from my experience as a foster parent that some kids have sexualized behavior from past abuse.

The article really doesn't give any details to the judges thinking or provide information as to what the evidence of the case is. What the article does provide is eyebrow rasing, but not enough information is provided for me to make an informed opinion.

What information would exactly change anything? Because it wouldn't be the sexual aggressiveness of children which the judge seems to think is most valuable to cite. The sexual behavior of the children should have no bearing in a case that involves teens and a grown adult.
 

Deleted member 3208

Oct 25, 2017
11,934
Investigate this judge and then lock him in a prison. Disgusting.
 

caliph95

Member
Oct 25, 2017
35,187
From what I can tell the man did this willingly, so I don't understand why the girls were considered to be aggressors.
Because apparently they were soliciting for money which it's own set of issues and inal but it shouldn't really matter it's not like the girls had superpowers and he was powerless
 
Oct 26, 2017
3,946
It's crazy that someone with that poor of an understanding and perception of the world can be a judge, unless it really is projection. It's because of grown ups' lust for underage girls/boys that causes situations like these two girls are in, not because they are sex sirens no one can resist. Instead of attacking the character of the girls the judge should have expressed concern for them and vowed to find a way to get them the help they need to recover and to avoid this happening again.
 

CatSoul

Member
Nov 7, 2018
122
Well, this is embarrassing. This is my hometown.

When someone offers you money at 13 or 14 years old for something like that, you aren't entirely aware of the consequences. You see money, something that can be hard for a young teen to come by but is most desired at this age. I also fail to how being submissive to someone else's demands makes you an "aggressor."
 

stupei

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,801
If the judge has seen the girls in his courtroom before, as he implies, he should have recused himself if he cannot be objective about the victims.

But if they have engaged in criminal activity at such a young age, that does suggest a home life where it's not very surprising that they would be desperate for money. In a more humane and rational person, that context would only make you more compassionate, not less.

Even if he's not a pedophile himself, the kind of Judge who dehumanizes and sneers at the people brought before him, even when they are victims, should not be on the bench.

Shit doesn't seem right. If he has any prior knowledge of these girls, doesn't that introduce an element of bias in his ruling?

It absolutely does, but in my limited understanding of the law the judge has to be willing to acknowledge that himself and the people who are most influenced and biased will seldom acknowledge said bias. His comments might help the prosecutor who is trying to push for a harsher sentencing, though.
 

badboy78660

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,737
Shit doesn't seem right. If he has any prior knowledge of these girls, doesn't that introduce an element of bias in his ruling?
 

Unicorn

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 29, 2017
9,551
Wouldn't the girls not being present fall under the 5th amendment? Why would that factor at all. Why would children be required to face their attacker?