Speaking of ... have you played DQXI? I've got my eye on it through GamePass.
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JRPG fans, do you miss anything about the games from the 90s and 00s?
- Thread starter Rosenkrantz
- Start date
I miss Front Mission too. FM3 is my favourite SRPG by a long way. I still go back to it via the Vita.
DQ11 reminds me a lot of what I would expect out of a DQ8 sequel if you've played that.
Most of all, I miss Square's INSANE output in the 90s/00s.
Multiple critically acclaimed RPG releases per year.
Critically acclaimed / legendary RPG/SRPG still talked about and remade to this day.
New licenses, recurring licenses, spinoffs.
Xenogears.
I'd like them to go back to isometric or anything that doesn't take that long to produce.
Nowadays SquareEnix takes 5 to 7 years to release tech demos or subpar games that won't stand the test of time like the games of this golden period.
Multiple critically acclaimed RPG releases per year.
Critically acclaimed / legendary RPG/SRPG still talked about and remade to this day.
New licenses, recurring licenses, spinoffs.
Xenogears.
I'd like them to go back to isometric or anything that doesn't take that long to produce.
Nowadays SquareEnix takes 5 to 7 years to release tech demos or subpar games that won't stand the test of time like the games of this golden period.
Ambition. What the games from tokyo rpg factory,octopath and bravely dont get is that the jrpg's from the snes-psx era were great and memorable because they took risks and tried new ideas constantly, with their writing and with their mechanics. The throwbacks we have today are just very basic attempts at trying to copy perfectly what old games did, and that's not how you make a memorable experience. That's why the last jrpg's that i enjoyed was the original xenoblade game, because i really felt takahashi was trying to create a grandiose tale with that, even with the limitations of the wii. I don't like xeno 2 but for other reasons.
Let's just say that hypothetically*, Dragon Quest is a JRPG series that I've never given a chance to enter my backlog / current log of games?
*by hypothetically I mean shamefully & definitely
DQ11:
Very traditional 4-person turn-based battle system, but you can swap characters in & out (and you should on the harder difficulties).
Very well-balanced gameplay.
Default is easy, but there are modifiers you can choose when you start your game file that make it much harder (like not being able to use shops & harder enemies).
Fun cast of characters.
Linear but large open areas.
Fun crafting system.
Overall story is stereotypical, but there are a couple big twists (think FF6 & CT) and the individual stories can be rather well done.
Mediocre music but good graphics.
Grid-based LV-Up system with respecs.
Very long - when you think the game is wrapping up, it starts Act 2. And then when you "beat" the game, it turns out that there's a huge post-game segment left to play with a lot more story.
Overall, that sounds great to me ... and earlier this year I played through all of P5R, so length of game doesn't bother me. I'm looking forward to it! Appreciate the insight.
I really enjoyed it. Chances are if you're posting in this thread, you'll probably like it.
The newer versions of the game also include some sidequests where you go "back in time" to past games in the series and it's done in SNES style. And in fact, you can play through the entire game in SNES mode, but I think modern mode is better (there's some QoL in the modern mode that isn't in the SNES mode).
That's a pretty bug chunk of all modern JRPGs in the true sense of the word. I do hear what you're saying though OP, I grew up on 90s JRPGS and they shaped my taste in gaming. For my money the Trails of Cold Steel series is the one that brings back that old school feeling, and I'm super thankful it exists to play in English.
I miss Shining Force...
I miss the more coesive pacing. At that time you could finish a RPG in 25 hours. Not everything should have 80 hours. Even Persona 5 that I loved I felt that the firsts dungeons took too much time to finish. Kamoshida's Palace should have been ⅓ of what was.
I don't know if that's because I got tired of games like Assassins Creed where you have to waste time to progress in the game doing some bullshit that does nothing in the plot but because reasons... (yeah, it existed in the older games but it was shorter).
I miss the more coesive pacing. At that time you could finish a RPG in 25 hours. Not everything should have 80 hours. Even Persona 5 that I loved I felt that the firsts dungeons took too much time to finish. Kamoshida's Palace should have been ⅓ of what was.
I don't know if that's because I got tired of games like Assassins Creed where you have to waste time to progress in the game doing some bullshit that does nothing in the plot but because reasons... (yeah, it existed in the older games but it was shorter).
I do. They brought over some great games and their localizations had personality at a time when the average jrpg's translation was broken and unintelligible. They also had some amazing physical editions. Better companies have come since then, but they were great at the time.
Thinking mostly of the portable games of the last decade, I'm sick of the presentation of these games being so shitty. Aside from the pandering, everything is like a diorama of an adventure, with menus in place of towns and world maps, little cardboard cutouts in place of actual character models, and talking heads in place of proper cutscenes. It's plainly an aesthetic adapted to the limitations of portability, but then it seems like when the Switch replaced the 3DS these games just disappeared rather than being upgraded. Are all the old 3DS devs just making mobile games now?
I think when the battle systems are good now that they're better than anything we used to see, but they seem to come at the expense of everything else about the game, and it's not worth the trade-off.
Bravely Default is a prime example. There are fantastic fights in it, but most of them are back-loaded behind dozens of hours of repetitive bullshit that I somehow didn't mind much at the time but could never go back to. And ugly graphics and creepy pandering.
I think when the battle systems are good now that they're better than anything we used to see, but they seem to come at the expense of everything else about the game, and it's not worth the trade-off.
Bravely Default is a prime example. There are fantastic fights in it, but most of them are back-loaded behind dozens of hours of repetitive bullshit that I somehow didn't mind much at the time but could never go back to. And ugly graphics and creepy pandering.
Yeah, anyone doubting the service Working Designs did back in the day should play a little bit of FF7, Legend of Dragoon, and Suikoden II to see what the state of the art was at the time.
Text based dialogue which lets me name characters whatever I want. Sense of exploration, scale and good, turn based combat. I'm honestly tired of playing bad action games in my jrpgs. I could instead just play good action games.
Nope still haven't had one fill the void yet. While games such as I am Setsuna and Cosmic Star Heroine do their best, you can definitely feel the lack of having a large development team backing them.
I liked how magic and lore was more often rooted on some mythology or mysticism that exists outside gaming. Nowadays I feel a lot simply reference the genre itself. We have ifrits, seraphims, etc because that's a genre thing, they are not monsters and creatures from mythology but something you are supposed to have because it's what rpgs have.
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I miss this sense of adventure in 2D worlds, brightened up with a great variety of artworks. I think rudimentary 2D and lower detailed worlds really are positive things as they give more room to one's imagination. Also I miss texted based adventures while using a quiet fanless console.
Agreed, still enjoy them to this day. Its honestly the only genre I play constantly.
I miss the charm, not many current JRPG's capture the adventure and characters of the old sprite based JRPG days. I don't know if that comes from focusing on visuals or budget 3d, but the characters these days just don't get my attention anymore.
I was a big fan of the Final Fantasy games released in late 90's/early 00's. I miss games following that style in terms of gameplay (turn based), storytelling, art-style and music.
There's still games that hit some of those keys, but there isn't really anything that offers the whole package.
also:
I mean there were always questionable designs in some games, but it certainly didn't feel as bad as today.
There's still games that hit some of those keys, but there isn't really anything that offers the whole package.
also:
I mean there were always questionable designs in some games, but it certainly didn't feel as bad as today.
It still amazed me that so much of FFXV's marketing was focused on Cindy, a character with less than 20 minutes total screen time, just because they knew thirsty weirdos would obsess over her.
I'm old, so I just miss pre-voice acting JRPGs, also when the localization teams had a bit more freedom to really smooth over the rough edges of cultural stuff that just doesn't make sense to westerners without proper context.
The Mother 3 fan translation is the last one that really felt like something from that era to me.
The Mother 3 fan translation is the last one that really felt like something from that era to me.
Just to let you know, they have a Demo for it that came out today, and progress carries over. :)
Get DRAGON QUEST® XI S: Echoes of an Elusive Age™ - Definitive Edition DEMO | Xbox
This demo will give you a generous glimpse of the opening events in the epic adventure that awaits you in DRAGON QUEST XI S: Echoes of an Elusive Age - Definitive Edition.
www.microsoft.com
OT: I for sure miss turn-based combat and world maps, especially when you got a flying ship to fly around in. Lost Odyssey is one of the last few JRPGs that really seemed to nail all of the god-tier stuff I enjoyed with RPGs.
I think that's a perfect example of the differences between FFXV, a game with not that much fan service, but still a surprising amount throughout the game, and the marketing focusing so hard on Cindy... And something like Lunar, which has the bromides hidden in the game.
Yes the Bromides are creepy, but outside of the odd obscure review in OPM/PSM, I didn't even know they existed until I found them.
Like others have said, turn based combat is missed a lot.
World maps for sure (and not littered with thousands of side quest ahm). I started up a play through of the first Ni No Kuni and that moment you get to travel the map is just so epic. The music, the scale, everything. *chefs kiss*
And I'm right there with you OP on sense of adventure. Grandia 2 (I know I know), Final Fantasy IX, X, and so many of my favorites from childhood just made you feel like it was your journey. I miss that.
And most importantly I just miss the genre releasing high quality games on a regular basis. I'm not into all the Otaku shit, and I've realized some series just aren't for me (Trails). Persona is awesome but it doesn't scratch the same itch as older games in the genre. Ive grown to accept what is the state of the genre but I wish it could get back to what it was.
World maps for sure (and not littered with thousands of side quest ahm). I started up a play through of the first Ni No Kuni and that moment you get to travel the map is just so epic. The music, the scale, everything. *chefs kiss*
And I'm right there with you OP on sense of adventure. Grandia 2 (I know I know), Final Fantasy IX, X, and so many of my favorites from childhood just made you feel like it was your journey. I miss that.
And most importantly I just miss the genre releasing high quality games on a regular basis. I'm not into all the Otaku shit, and I've realized some series just aren't for me (Trails). Persona is awesome but it doesn't scratch the same itch as older games in the genre. Ive grown to accept what is the state of the genre but I wish it could get back to what it was.
Nothing against anime, but I feel like JRPG's these days are leaning heavily into anime tropes and cliches and melodrama.
I also think at that time all those systems and mechanics were new and fresh. I just dont feel like many JRPG's innovate much anymore and stick to the same style battle systems and progression.
Also, not that they were open world before, but games like FF7 and Chrono Trigger were great when they opened up more and allowed for exploration and discovery. I think nowadays things are more linear for JRPG's.
Im speaking generally of course. I realize games like Xenoblade and Persona buck those trends.
Nowadays I prefer more western RPG's because the level of choice and exploration you are given.
I also think at that time all those systems and mechanics were new and fresh. I just dont feel like many JRPG's innovate much anymore and stick to the same style battle systems and progression.
Also, not that they were open world before, but games like FF7 and Chrono Trigger were great when they opened up more and allowed for exploration and discovery. I think nowadays things are more linear for JRPG's.
Im speaking generally of course. I realize games like Xenoblade and Persona buck those trends.
Nowadays I prefer more western RPG's because the level of choice and exploration you are given.
I miss the old progression. Now, many feel like watching a string of anime scenes taped together by hallways. I remember getting Xenosaga at launch and hoping that this was not the future.
That said, around the time that jrpgs fell out of favor with me, Japanese dungeon crawlers and srpgs got awesome. Strange Journey, Soul Hackers, the countless srpgs on the DS, I enjoyed those quite a bit.
Even Etrian, despite the lolishit, became the best at what it did in that time.
That said, around the time that jrpgs fell out of favor with me, Japanese dungeon crawlers and srpgs got awesome. Strange Journey, Soul Hackers, the countless srpgs on the DS, I enjoyed those quite a bit.
Even Etrian, despite the lolishit, became the best at what it did in that time.
I miss world maps. Perfect way of faking open world games.
I hope they use procedural generation to bring something similar back. Instanced locales but the land that connects them is made on the fly to make worlds feel as big as they used to.
I hope they use procedural generation to bring something similar back. Instanced locales but the land that connects them is made on the fly to make worlds feel as big as they used to.
Yeah, GIII Is obviously more about growing up and spreading your wings (eh), hence why the parents had to go.
This said GIII is also very bad.
Yeah, I miss the massive amount of good JRPGs from the 90s and early 2000s. What the actual fuck happened to this genre? It's a shame.
And yes, I know that some good JRPGs still release now, but they are very uncommon compared to the previous eras.
And yes, I know that some good JRPGs still release now, but they are very uncommon compared to the previous eras.
The story? Absolutely
but I love the gameplay, visuals, art, cutscenes, etc. so much that it was okay
although the first 6 or so hours with Miranda and Alonso are by far the best
I legit teared up when they left the party!
Most of the ones I've played haven't had the scope to scratch the same itch. CrossCode is the exception.
Yeah I have. Played most of the devs earlier games too. Imagine square Enix giving them a lot more money to make some FF spinoff. It'd be the best FF in years. Man that would be crazy
I miss hidden stuff that's obtainable. Hidden characters, classes, weapons, skills. Not like, "get to level 999 and you can unlock this ultimate skill" or "collect every single of these really annoying collectibles and then craft all the weapons and then beat all the optional bosses before entering the last castle and...".
To be fair I haven't played that many JRPGs since the mid 2000s, but I've picked up a few recent big ones and I'm just not seeing it anymore. Either basically everything is laid out or the requirements are annoyingly specific and uninteresting so they just end up being a huge repetitive grind.
I also don't really dig the real time hybrid combat. Like fighting with an AI party in a tight circle and you've still got menus and skills to swap between, and you stand on the ground running in little circles waiting for cool downs or heals. I'm actually really glad Final Fantasy appears to be going full action game with the next one. Turn based or full on Action. The midpoint doesn't do it for me.
To be fair I haven't played that many JRPGs since the mid 2000s, but I've picked up a few recent big ones and I'm just not seeing it anymore. Either basically everything is laid out or the requirements are annoyingly specific and uninteresting so they just end up being a huge repetitive grind.
I also don't really dig the real time hybrid combat. Like fighting with an AI party in a tight circle and you've still got menus and skills to swap between, and you stand on the ground running in little circles waiting for cool downs or heals. I'm actually really glad Final Fantasy appears to be going full action game with the next one. Turn based or full on Action. The midpoint doesn't do it for me.
I kinda miss pre-rendered cutscene as a reward for getting to a certain point in the a. Older Blizzard game used this to great effect as well as the obvious Final Fantasy. I don't know where all the pre-render talent at Square-Enix is going these days, but it was just fun to be taken out of the action and get to breathe for a bit for something amazing like the ballroom or space scenes in FFVIII. I understand why studios do it all in-game nowadays, though, but it also affects the artistic freedom in modern cutscenes. And then SE go and put out all these amazing concept cinematics.
The summon sequences still bang at least.
The summon sequences still bang at least.
I started just cciting people that i agreed with, but ill add more to it:
With Prerendered backgrounds you can imply way more than you could realistically make in an interactive town.
Im more pissed about bad action rpgs. I know, not every ARPG can be kingdome hearts, but coming from KH and Spectacle Fighters (DMC, Bayonetta, Tales of in parts (Symphonia felt like a Beat M up in places) most Action RPGs just dont have a good feel when fighting, and after a while im thinking i would prefere to chose attacks rather have janky action. Exception: normal attacks. Looking @ Dragon Quest and the free roam mode: being able to attack normally would be nice, and doing other stuff in the menu.
With all that said: the genre is far from dead. Octopath had exploring, had a good map, ahd a great battle system, a God tire soundtrack. And a Battle system that has so much potential in the future. Just the structure would need a rethinking.
Dragon Quest 11: im not a fan, because a) music (i find it grading for more than an hour, even the orchestral stuff), character design(just not a fan of Toriyama in this context), story (kinda oldschoolier than i like), but it has a lot to explore, a world(map) of some kind, a lot of options, has a great feel in the first city, etc etc...its made for fans of oldschool RPGs, you can feel it.
Nino Kuni (1, 2) had a worldmap, dont know if the games where good.
Xenoblade did some of this stuff right. Im just really really not a fan of the huge amount of pandering and the Battle Systems that remind me more of MMO RPGS (not really turn based, not really action, and a lot of "cooldown" mechanics and meters)
The adventure feel, a world to explore. Jep.
Old JRPGs fellt like Shonen. Newer ones...more, like you said, otaku pandering. The Fanservice is really bad, especially when you consider, even back then women had not the best representation in games.
Or side content, optional bosses/dungeons, etc. Post game, with lore. Not that its completly gone. But a "endless dungeon" or recolored boss fights dont count. More: Abyssion in ToS, or the Weapons in FF. Generally "Superbosses"
More magical, thats kinda hard to discribe, but i would put it as "adventure". Newer ones feel like youre geting send from place to place. Not that it did not happen (FF7 is the best example), but it didnt FEEL that way.
A+. I kinda felt that Radiant Historia was overhyped. Looking back: its a really great game, and was fresh, with a fresh setting, that only lacked in the diversity of locations, since you replayed a lot of them so ofthen.
Yeah. A more focused scale, but at the same time the feel of a huge world. Midgar , Estar, Lindblum, all of those places felt huge... but had only maybe 10 screens each.
With Prerendered backgrounds you can imply way more than you could realistically make in an interactive town.
Good Turn Based Combat has the potential to be a puzzle, and to have strategy. Old JRPGs to fast became "just moping the floor" with the same view strong attacks, and ofthen underused elements (sstatus effects on enemies? useless in most cases. FF8 had a solid use, but if you can expect attacks to miss 2/3 times, why even waste it. Octopath was greath, sometimes poison did make a bigger difference than atacking normally, and buffs/debuffs where essential to not need to overgrind)
Im more pissed about bad action rpgs. I know, not every ARPG can be kingdome hearts, but coming from KH and Spectacle Fighters (DMC, Bayonetta, Tales of in parts (Symphonia felt like a Beat M up in places) most Action RPGs just dont have a good feel when fighting, and after a while im thinking i would prefere to chose attacks rather have janky action. Exception: normal attacks. Looking @ Dragon Quest and the free roam mode: being able to attack normally would be nice, and doing other stuff in the menu.
Yeah, the feel of towns is gone. They where smaler, they needed to show you what makes them distinct in a clear way.
You had dark elements, but its less "edgy", and was more optimistic than now. Even FF6, with its End of the world second half.
- often it feels like the proportion of cutscenes and gameplay is way off, to many cutscenes.
- Dungeons. I want dungeons with maps and different ways and stuff to do outside of battling.
- Less bombastic music, more melodic.
- <50h games. Maybe even <30h. Not interested to have to invest 100h in a game, most of it is filler
- LESS FILLER. At least in the main path.
- Less of those convoluted systems. I feel like every new RPG has 3-5 systems aditional to the core ones, and for every one you get a tutorial in the first view hours.
With all that said: the genre is far from dead. Octopath had exploring, had a good map, ahd a great battle system, a God tire soundtrack. And a Battle system that has so much potential in the future. Just the structure would need a rethinking.
Dragon Quest 11: im not a fan, because a) music (i find it grading for more than an hour, even the orchestral stuff), character design(just not a fan of Toriyama in this context), story (kinda oldschoolier than i like), but it has a lot to explore, a world(map) of some kind, a lot of options, has a great feel in the first city, etc etc...its made for fans of oldschool RPGs, you can feel it.
Nino Kuni (1, 2) had a worldmap, dont know if the games where good.
Xenoblade did some of this stuff right. Im just really really not a fan of the huge amount of pandering and the Battle Systems that remind me more of MMO RPGS (not really turn based, not really action, and a lot of "cooldown" mechanics and meters)
I miss playing through the games on your own time, and being able to talk it over with your friends without the conversation being affected by the internet endlessly spoiling or memeing the shit out of everything. You could go "holy shit, that happened!" to your friends without being told it was old news because every major streamer had already finished the game and was doing speedruns with a toothpick within 12 hours of release. Or you could say that you like some character without being flooded with spoilers about that character, or being told that the character is not meta.
Yeah, that part sucks. Those party members are now either DLC (Javik, though ME isn't a JRPG) or limited/OP units in gacha games.
A lot of people here shouldn't sleep on indie J-RPGs.
For turn-based lovers, Cosmic Star Heroine is an amazing game with an excellent fun combat system, great art direction and characters, and interesting story.
For action J-RPGs, CrossCode is simply one of the greatest game of all time in my opinion. Great story and characters, lovely sprites, amazing dungeon and world map designs, and the combat is the perfect blend of fun and strategy with a lot of diversity.
There are many others, these two are just the best examples in my opinion.
For 8-bit/16-bit sprite-based 2D JRPG, yes. But as you said earlier, still nothing to fill the late PS1/PS2 mid-budget 3D JRPG like Grandia, Xenogears, Wild Arms 3, or Shadow Hearts.