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werezompire

Zeboyd Games
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
11,353
Balancing and challenging content, RPG at that time were more difficult, they didn't need to put difficulty setting to feel fun to play. Now i always have to change difficulty setting and usualy it's too hard or too easy, never in the middle...

What games are you thinking of, because from what I remember, most classic RPGs tend to be pretty easy. Pretty much all of Square-Enix's games after the NES era are on the easy side (with a couple of exception like SaGa and Vagrant Story). The Wild Arms, Suikoden, and Grandia series are all pretty easy. Pokemon has always been really easy. And so on and so on. I'm all for difficulty settings, because the default with JRPGs is to make them easy.
 

Neoleo2143

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,462
Having played through the game, this is very much intended to make you hate the guy - and at least for me, it was very effective. One of the few villain characters shown to have no redeeming qualities, and they absolutely go in on that front, as he is absolutely depicted as, and understood to be, a disgusting and horrible person throughout.

Even when you get to the alternate worlds, where characters' personalities are spun in different ways showing more depth to their personalities, he absolutely continues to be an irredeemable piece of shit.

Strangely, this isn't even a new scenario for the genre, Breath of Fire 4 had a similarly compromising scenario for its main female cast members. It's a shame it hasn't been abandoned.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,625
What games are you thinking of, because from what I remember, most classic RPGs tend to be pretty easy. Pretty much all of Square-Enix's games after the NES era are on the easy side (with a couple of exception like SaGa and Vagrant Story). The Wild Arms, Suikoden, and Grandia series are all pretty easy. Pokemon has always been really easy. And so on and so on. I'm all for difficulty settings, because the default with JRPGs is to make them easy.

Typically, in my experience, the most mass-appealing JRPGs tend to be the ones with a more accessible difficulty. Games like the 7th Saga that were extremely fucking hard bounced a lot of people off in the '90s and faded away.

But I do think a lot of JRPGs (especially Tri-Ace ones, for example), tend to have more content of VARYING difficulty than modern JRPGs. This is probably partially because modern RPGs are almost exclusively "action games with stats" instead of full-on RPGs, and when you're in action game territory, "difficulty" generally just means "the enemy can kill you very quickly and takes an extremely long time to kill".
 
Oct 27, 2017
4,534
I miss (FAST) turn based JRPGs.

And I miss Nobuo Uematsu. I miss his prog rock/electric organ/baroque etc sound that he put into his games. It really elevated all of the FF games all the way into FFX.
 

lightning16

Member
May 17, 2019
1,763
I generally think the genre is in a good spot, but I think there's a sense of scale missing in some modern JRPG worlds. It's getting better now, but especially early on in the HD era I think in-game worlds just felt relatively small. I think it's because a lot of older JRPGs conveyed their sense of scale in more abstract terms and, while they weren't actually particularly large games compared to some recent JRPGs, they were capable of selling scale with far less investment. Of course you still had plenty of exceptions to this (Monolith Soft has been stellar about sense of scale, as a more noteworthy example) and, as I said, I think this is getting better as time goes on, so it's not even a particularly big thing I miss right now. But I do see some lower budget 3D games that do struggle conveying a sense of scale, like Gust games. Although I guess many Gust games aren't supposed to be particularly large-scaled.

Re: the difficulty discussion, I actually don't think older JRPGs are difficult at all. I think they tended to just have some funky and unintended difficulty hiccups due to poor balancing. You have a game like Chrono Trigger that's extremely easy, but then some random boss is capable of basically killing you before you can act, but then if you actually manage to survive that onslaught it's a cakewalk. The boss felt "difficult" but it was really just a shitty balancing job. Same goes for Final Fantasy VI, which is an easy game but there are some random encounters that just come out of nowhere with the Final Fantasy equivalent of magnitude which can just wreck your party instantly for no reason. Secret of Mana feels tough until you beat an early boss then the game is a complete joke. Idk. Older JRPGs were poorly balanced a lot of the time in the SNES era. PS1 games started to get better, and now you have mostly sensible difficulty curves in JRPGs as well as a lot of difficulty options. It's much better now imo.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,625
I miss (FAST) turn based JRPGs.

And I miss Nobuo Uematsu. I miss his prog rock/electric organ/baroque etc sound that he put into his games. It really elevated all of the FF games all the way into FFX.

As sad as it is to say this, I think Uematsu's done. His health issues pretty much put the kibosh on any kind of return he was planning, and even before that he was losing his mojo pretty visibly over time. The original XIV soundtrack was kind of his last hurrah as a composer, and almost no one heard it - and almost none of it survived into ARR.

The man was a virtuoso of his time, as far as game music was concerned, but he's never composing another Dancing Mad. I imagine he's pretty much completely retired at this point.
 
Nov 17, 2017
12,864
I really dislike that the trend with JRPGs seems to be making them more like charaction-action games and less turn-based combat games. Using FFVIIR as an example, I really dislike that it plays absolutely nothing like the original, and that you also can't plug-and-play your party. One of the coolest moments in FFVI is taking your party of 14 characters, splitting them into three teams of 4, and taking down Kefka. Similarly, in Suikoden 2, when you split your party into three groups of 6 to take down Luca Blight.

This trend of making everything a lite version of Devil May Cry and trying to create set pieces and set parties that wow the player is getting a bit stale, honestly.
There's still plenty of turn based games though like Dragon Quest, Persona, Trails, Bravely Default, Octopath Traveler, Fire Emblem, etc. And even games that aren't turn based but aren't action either. I like that we have a healthy variety now.
 
Oct 27, 2017
4,534
As sad as it is to say this, I think Uematsu's done. His health issues pretty much put the kibosh on any kind of return he was planning, and even before that he was losing his mojo pretty visibly over time. The original XIV soundtrack was kind of his last hurrah as a composer, and almost no one heard it - and almost none of it survived into ARR.

The man was a virtuoso of his time, as far as game music was concerned, but he's never composing another Dancing Mad. I imagine he's pretty much completely retired at this point.

Yeah I know, its really sad. FF6's soundtrack will remain one of my favorite soundtracks of all time. Uematsu was such a beast.

Atlus RPGs tend to have faster turn-based combat than your average classic JRPG. For example, a single turn is a lot faster in SMT: Nocturne or Persona 5 than it is in Chrono Trigger.

Yeah I was surprised how fast P5 was(my first Persona game). I also really loved the hybrid turnbased/action style of FF7R. One of my problems with action/real time RPGs is that I HATE relying on the AI to do shit because it depends on the devs to make them work. In turn based, I control all of the characters and the only AI I have to worry about is the enemy AI basically. FF7R's combat bridged that gap for me and really nailed being able to control all the characters properly for me.
 
Oct 27, 2017
4,534
He did at least compose one more final boss theme before the end:



You can pretty much hear the Uematsu sound almost immediately.


Excellent, I never heard this before because after I initially beat FFXV back then, I was so disappointed I never bothered to do any of the expansion crap.

Playing through FFVIII reminded me of how amazing and detailed some pre-rendered backgrounds can be

This, I miss this as well. There was a time period around the PS2 period where the 3D shit just didnt feel expansive enough and pre rendered was still king to me due to the detail.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,625
Excellent, I never heard this before because after I initially beat FFXV back then, I was so disappointed I never bothered to do any of the expansion crap.

There was some truly incredible music in the DLC, including a wonderful medley of the four bros' themes rearranged as a battle song.



The section featuring Ignis' theme in particular...whew. You'll know it when you hear it, just based on the way it kicks in.
 
Oct 25, 2017
13,013
I have been playing JRPGs for 30 years and honest I'm pretty pleased with where we are right now.

My JRPG backlog is eternal anyways, I can't wait for SMTV.
 

supercommodore

Prophet of Truth
Member
Apr 13, 2020
4,190
UK
Playing through FFVIII reminded me of how amazing and detailed some pre-rendered backgrounds can be

For sure. It is a shame Square won't show the old games the same love as the modding community (see below).

Image upscaling using deep learning could really sharpen up the backgrounds given the original master copies were lost for a bunch of the Final Fantasy games.

www.resetera.com

I am replaying Final Fantasy IX on PC with the Moguri Mod & want to share my some of my thoughts, and lots of images

Final Fantasy IX may just be among my top 5 FF games, granted there isn't anything that grandoise about its gameplay and combat system, but its setting, themes, characters and music have stuck with me for years and overall, far as traidtional jRPGs go, it's a good game of that genre and worth...
 

Kurtikeya

One Winged Slayer
Member
Dec 2, 2017
4,446
I also miss them being sort of everything games where there's tons to do and secrets to uncover. Tales of Eternia bombarded you with minigames and secret bosses, and there's even scenes you can see when you sleep at a specific inn or go to a specific place without bringing a specific party member.

Top off my head, Kingdom Hearts III has the Flans, Flash Tracer, Frozen Slider, Festival Dance, etc. while Dragon Quest XI has horse racing and the casino, but neither of them stood out in secret bosses, though KH3 does have some creative Gummi bosses. DQXI S did give us Tickington while ReMind gave us Limit Cut, but still. Those are revisions/expansions you had to pay for.

Final Fantasy VII Remake has excellent Battle Challenges but as far as minigames go, there's only darts, squats and pullups, G-Bike, and Whack-a-Box, and I only really liked darts.

Persona 5 has batting, fishing, retro gaming, and non-interactive meditation, gym, and part-time work, but you can't do those forever. Royal has Tycoon, Penguin Sniper, and Joker's Palace which I adore, but again, those weren't in vanilla P5. Then you have secret bosses but you also have to pay to fight Yuki and Yu.

I'm sure the Tales games still offer plenty in both minigames and optional bosses, but I've kinda fallen out of the series.
 

Crayon

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,580
Ive been playing old ff games lately. So fun. I don't think the gameplay was appreciated after a certain point. They mostly play very well.
 

arglebargle

Member
Oct 26, 2017
977
in fairness i havent played a ton of new jrpgs, but i do miss the sense of scale and adventure. i think some other posters captured a lot of what that is - loss of world maps and airships, for example. that combined with some of the settings choices (like recent final fantasy games) just lose some of the fantasy of adventure to me. i think xenoblade chronicles does a pretty good job of capturing the scale, adventure and fantasy, but i would be interested to hear more recommendations of games in the genre that still feel like grand fantasy adventures. preferably with as little cringey anime as possible.

OP - grandia is a great example of really feeling like you are going on an adventure.
 

Mr. Virus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,650
Andding to some of the points already mentioned, but really hate:

- gross fanservice nonsense
- exposition dumps, especially via cutscenes and ESPECIALLY one after the other
- lack of experimentation in a few things (story/tone/systems) in favour of "teenagers save the world!" and a deluge of numbers and gear to make it feel like some for of "progression" or "complexity"
 

Stencil

Member
Oct 30, 2017
10,377
USA
I feel like the amount of good/interesting art direction back in the day was a lot higher, a lot more variety. Nowadays it's just that generic anime look. Sterile, lifeless, no characters stand out. Like theyre all generated by the same anime computer.

Also, the voice acting is out of control. I do not need to hear what some random NPC talking about how nice of a day it is, or that there's a lot more monster activity outside the town gates. For cutscenes, sure, but if absolutely everything is VO, it really kind of flattens the important moments and raises the monotonous moments. In a bad way.
 
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Viale

â–˛ Legend â–˛
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,616
Top off my head, Kingdom Hearts III has the Flans, Flash Tracer, Frozen Slider, Festival Dance, etc. while Dragon Quest XI has horse racing and the casino, but neither of them stood out in secret bosses, though KH3 does have some creative Gummi bosses.

...excuse me? KH3 has some of the best bosses in the industry. Multiple of which top the generation imo.
 

Kurtikeya

One Winged Slayer
Member
Dec 2, 2017
4,446
...excuse me? KH3 has some of the best bosses in the industry. Multiple of which top the generation imo.

I said postgame bosses for vanilla KH3. There's Dark Inferno, the Battlegates, and I think that's it? Obviously ReMind remedied that, but my succeeding sentence pointed that out.
 

Viale

â–˛ Legend â–˛
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,616
I said postgame bosses for vanilla KH3. There's Dark Inferno, the Battlegates, and I think that's it? Obviously ReMind remedied that, but my succeeding sentence pointed that out.

ah I misread. apologies. Considering Kh's past though, that almost feels like a weird stipulation to make though. May as well say KH2 or kh1 pre-international edition were also garbage in terms of extra content/super bosses.
 

Kurtikeya

One Winged Slayer
Member
Dec 2, 2017
4,446
ah I misread. apologies. Considering Kh's past though, that almost feels like a weird stipulation to make though. May as well say KH2 was also garbage in terms of extra content/super bosses or kh1 pre-international edition.

I did quick research and... huh. I thought Cavern of Remembrance was in vanilla KH2. Good point.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,625
I feel like the amount of good/interesting art direction back in the day was a lot higher, a lot more variety. Nowadays it's just that generic anime look. Sterile, lifeless, no characters stand out. Like theyre all generated by the same anime computer.

Also, the voice acting is out of control. I do not need to hear what some random NPC talking about how nice of a day it is, or that there's a lot more monster activity outside the town gates. For cutscenes, sure, but if absolutely everything is VO, it really kind of flattens the important moments and raises the monotonous moments. In a bad way.

Yeah. The sheer amount of AUTOMATED design in modern JRPGs is getting really fucking annoying. I can't count how many protagonists feel like they were squeezed out of the exact same Play-Doh mold, and the number of female leads who have elements of either "maid outfit" or "wedding dress" worked in as part of their core clothing design has fired up into the stratosphere lately. It's like the art design is waving around gigantic dog whistles for the particularly gross subdivisions of otaku fandom.

Also, game artists and character designers...please let your female characters wear pants. Not every single female character needs to wear hot pants and/or a short skirt coupled with thigh-high leggings. The whole zettai ryouiki thing is gross and if you do it on every character, it just sticks out like a sore thumb even more than it did when you only did it on some characters.
 

Valcrist

Tic-Tac-Toe Champion
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,701
Xenogears had insanely good pacing, one hell of an interesting story and tasteful character design. That's more than I can say for most modern JRPGs. Also, the sexual content was tasteful and realistic as well. Overall, I wish games were handled more maturely like this these days... but instead in modern times we get to live high school over and over like some kind of fantasy harem groundhog day.
 

werezompire

Zeboyd Games
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
11,353
Xenogears had insanely good pacing, one hell of an interesting story and tasteful character design.

I think this is the first time I've seen someone praise Xenogears' pacing. There are huge stretches of game where there's little to no gameplay and you just watch cutscenes and maybe fight a throwaway battle every once in a while AND the entire second disk is a mess.

Also..... the...... text..... is............
really.............sl..o....w.
 
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PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,625
I think this is the first time I've seen someone praise Xenogears' pacing. There are huge stretches of game where there's little to no gameplay and you just watch cutscenes and maybe fight a throwaway battle every once in a while AND the entire second disk is a mess.

Agreed, the whole bomb collar section in particular feels like it lasts 10 hours, even if it's significantly shorter than that.
 

National Scar

Member
Oct 27, 2017
93
I think the thing I miss most are SNES-era sprite styles, and the accompanying gameplay. Sprites had a limit to how detailed they could be, there were no cinematic cutscenes, and there was no voice acting. It left a lot more to the imagination of the player, and now almost nothing is left to the imagination.

I realize that those things were a result of hardware/development limitations at the time, but I miss the sort of creative freedom afforded to the player in the days before HD and voice.
 

Kyrona

Member
Jul 9, 2020
509
I miss having a bunch of turn-based games instead of action ones. I miss when most games didn't have weird sexual pandering and anime fanservice (most likely a result of graphical limitations, but still good to not have it). I miss the time when most big publishers had their own flagship jrpg series. I miss the category of the middle-tier (budget wise) jrpg that seems to have vanished in the '00s. I miss a lot of things.

(I think I'm talking more about 90s than 00s based on my experiences)
Looking at SNES final fantasy sprites, I can say with a good amount of certainty that the pandering has been around from the beginning. Barbarricia or whatever her name was is pretty blatant.

I feel as though a large portion of the negative things listed about rpgs are addressed and handled much better in Octopath. There are still some failings structurally, with some stories having higher stakes than others. But it is my favorite rpg of the last 20 years probably.
 

Eppcetera

Member
Mar 3, 2018
1,908
I still enjoy new Japanese RPGs, but I miss a few things:

- The absence of voice acting. I'm cool with games having good voice acting, but the quality of dubs for Japanese RPGs can still be hit-or-miss. More importantly, I feel like the addition of voice acting seriously increased the average cutscene length. Honestly, I seldom listen to an entire voiced line if I can skip to the next box whenever I want, so voice acting hasn't added much to the genre, in my opinion.
- World maps! I don't care if they're not exactly "realistic" and break immersion or whatever. World maps used to be one of the few times you could explore in old RPGs, and the transition away from them took away that sense of exploration (despite a game like Final Fantasy VII being linear despite the world map). It was always great when you came across an optional area, like a secret town or dungeon.
- The experimentation. I don't think that Japanese developers' methods of shaking up the genre always worked, but I like that they tried, and I miss having weird games such as Chrono Cross or Valkyrie Profile being released with regularity.
- And edited to add, the pacing. RPGs from the early-to-mid 90s tended to be between 20-30 hours long at most. Much as I love the newer Persona games, it's ridiculous how long they take to finish; similarly, I'm a big fan of the Trails games, but not so much of a fan of how Falcom thinks that they need 2-4 games to tell a narrative (most developers are quite capable of finishing a narrative in one game).

To people who miss classic JRPGs, do you feel like indies help to fill the void?

Not really, sorry, although I enjoyed Cosmic Star Heroine. Indie RPGs feel new, which is good in its own right and makes the games worth playing, but they don't fill the void the same way playing an actual RPG from the 90s does, in my opinion. I played Phantasy Star 4 for the first time around the same time I played Cosmic Star Heroine, and they felt different despite some similarities (I thought both were good).
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,625
Looking at SNES final fantasy sprites, I can say with a good amount of certainty that the pandering has been around from the beginning. Barbarricia or whatever her name was is pretty blatant.

I feel as though a large portion of the negative things listed about rpgs are addressed and handled much better in Octopath. There are still some failings structurally, with some stories having higher stakes than others. But it is my favorite rpg of the last 20 years probably.

I think the difference is that having one occasional "sexy" boss is a little different than every single female character being tailor-made to appeal to one particular otaku fetish or another.

Like look at Genshin Impact. Every single female character in that game is designed to tick some kind of fetish box. There are no female characters who can just be reasonably-dressed adult women, they're all either lolis or annoying teenagers or walking porn models.
 

supercommodore

Prophet of Truth
Member
Apr 13, 2020
4,190
UK
Xenogears had insanely good pacing, one hell of an interesting story and tasteful character design. That's more than I can say for most modern JRPGs. Also, the sexual content was tasteful and realistic as well. Overall, I wish games were handled more maturely like this these days... but instead in modern times we get to live high school over and over like some kind of fantasy harem groundhog day.

Xenogears is such a great game, it's a shame it becomes rushed in the second half.

I have an American account on my PSP just for Xenogears, Chrono Cross and Legend of Dragoon as they didn't release here in the U.K. It's a shame that having a second account on Vita is such a pain.
 

Valcrist

Tic-Tac-Toe Champion
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,701
I think this is the first time I've seen someone praise Xenogears' pacing. There are huge stretches of game where there's little to no gameplay and you just watch cutscenes and maybe fight a throwaway battle every once in a while AND the entire second disk is a mess.
It might be an uncommon take, but a LOT of stuff happens in the story.
Xenogears is such a great game, it's a shame it becomes rushed in the second half.

I have an American account on my PSP just for Xenogears, Chrono Cross and Legend of Dragoon as they didn't release here in the U.K. It's a shame that having a second account on Vita is such a pain.
It's unfortunate that Xenogears didn't get the dev time that Takahashi wanted it to. Back then, Squaresoft had a rule that games needed to be finished within 1.5 years. Takahashi got extra time, but it still wasn't enough to finish disc 2.. and so to keep his vision alive all he could do was make the second disc the way it ended up.
 

psynergyadept

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,621
I miss the quantity of mid-budget games. Back in the PS2 era, games came out rapidly and it felt like most of them had a decent budget. Atlus alone released SEVEN of their own RPGs and several published games on the PS2 era in NA and they generally ranged in quality from good to amazing.

Now, it feels like most long-running JRPG series are dead, and the ones that aren't get maybe one new installment a generation. For games that aren't made on a shoestring budget, you've got your DQ & FF titles and maybe a new Persona every 5-10 years and the occasional one-of like Ni no Kuni or what Mistwalker was doing in the 360 generation. For mid-budget titles, you've got Tales and Trails and that's about it. Even with Square-Enix, you get DQ & FF on the high end, and stuff like Octopath Traveler & Bravely Default on the low end, and there's not really anything in that mid-budget range.

EDIT: I'm sure I'm missing some, but here's a list of JRPG series that had at least one installment on the PS2 that was localized into English. I've put a * next to games that had multiple PS2 entries. Future generations just can't compete with this kind of quantity:

*.Hack series
*Ar Tonelico
*Arc the Lad
*Atelier Iris
Breath of Fire
*Dark Cloud
*Disgaea
Dragon Quest
*Final Fantasy
Front Mission
*Grandia
*Growlanser
Jade Cocoon
*Kingdom Hearts
Legaia
*Mana-Khemia
Metal Saga
*SaGa
Sakura Wars
*Shadow Hearts
*Devil Summoner
*Digital Devil Saga
SMT
*Persona
*Shining
Star Ocean
*Suikoden
*Tales of
Valkyrie Profile
*Wild Arms
*Xenosaga
Ys

This so much!
 

Redcrayon

Patient hunter
On Break
Oct 27, 2017
12,713
UK
Looking at SNES final fantasy sprites, I can say with a good amount of certainty that the pandering has been around from the beginning. Barbarricia or whatever her name was is pretty blatant.
The difference is the pandering is now front and centre in templated character design tropes, the marketing, the cut scenes, the animation, the use of the camera, as increased technology has allowed an increased focus on it. Sure, it's always been there, but pixel art and animation technology back then didn't allow for the camera to go zooming in on dumb outfits and to whizz around showing off characters' chest and arse in several hours of cut scenes and dumb anime skits. That it's way more evident across the visual elements of the game now than when it was just pixels means designers spend a ton more hours pandering to it. It's why so many shit design tropes like all the bridal and maid and zetta whatever shit is more evident now. 'It's always been there', while technically true, is ignoring the way it's gone from something barely noticeable that you might only have seen in the art in the instruction manual to something pushed to the front of the genre to appeal to otaku fantasies and sell statues etc as the characters on screen become something they can sexualise way more easily through HD art and animation now. I mean, I've watched it happen across so many of my favourite series, even just from the 00s to the 2010s, the difference between Trails in the Sky and Valkyria Chronicles 1, to Cold Steel 3 and VC4, in the treatment of their female cast, is like night and day in how much the more recent games lean into the shitty stuff.
 
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Kyrona

Member
Jul 9, 2020
509
I think the difference is that having one occasional "sexy" boss is a little different than every single female character being tailor-made to appeal to one particular otaku fetish or another.

Like look at Genshin Impact. Every single female character in that game is designed to tick some kind of fetish box. There are no female characters who can just be reasonably-dressed adult women, they're all either lolis or annoying teenagers or walking porn models.
I mean that's true, and I completely agree that it is a problem in JRPG's as well, I just think that it would have been around from the start if it could have been. My personal point of view is that as time goes on, more of the grime under the hood is just being revealed. Which is why I think Redcrayon feels the same way. It has ALWAYS been there, but was in the art booklets and unlockable cg, where people could ignore it. The only thing that has changed is that it is more visible now.


The jrpgs I've been playing recently don't really have as many of those issues because I just avoid the games that tend to be more blatant. There are so many games coming out now that the amount of trash is going to increase proportionally as well, so I have a fairly large ignore list. With enough games released, I can keep playing new titles without being subjected to that kind of stuff all of the time, thank god.

I will say, Genshin follows a lot of the trappings of its fellow Chinese gacha - being overly sexualized in a lot of designs to keep people rolling on new banners. But I would attribute that more to the Chinese market than as an influence of the genre. Not because the genre doesn't have failings, but because the Chinese games market is notoriously horny.
 
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Deleted member 17210

User-requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
11,569
To people who miss classic JRPGs, do you feel like indies help to fill the void?
Your game Cosmic Star Heroine does nicely capture that 16-bit era essence but there aren't enough indie games that do. And those don't fill the void of the type of ambitious high budget stuff people want. I would like to see modern AAA equivalents to stuff like Panzer Dragoon Saga and Parasite Eve but it's not looking likely to happen.
 

Sumio Mondo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,927
United Kingdom
Games like Parasite Eve, Vagrant Story, Breath of Fire 5: Dragon Quarter, Koudelka, Shadow Hearts, Tactics Ogre, Front Mission series etc wouldn't exist nowadays.

Where are all the mech JRPGs that aren't licensed like Ring of Red and Front Mission? Where are the sci-fi JRPGs (Star Ocean sucks, so don't tell me about that)? Where are the horror JRPGs at? Experimental turn based systems like Dragon Quarter/Vagrant Story? The "otaku pandering" was even worse last gen I think not that it's much better now either. Art styles like Phantasy Star/old SMT games wouldn't exist now either.

The move towards action RPGs is a bit of a shame, even though I enjoy Action RPGs a lot too - I just liked the variety of the SNES/PS1/PS2 era. Call it nostalgia but I'm still discovering games from those consoles that are new to me and I really like.

Too many fantasy settings too, getting rather sick of them. So by the time that Atlus finally release RE: Fantasy I'll be bored of that "style" - SMT5 will feel more refreshing to me.
 

Kyrona

Member
Jul 9, 2020
509
One thing that kind of amuses me, even as someone who enjoys SMT games, is that people can lament otaku pandering in the same breath they praise the series. It may not be to the same extent, but it is very obviously still there.

Cosmic Star Heroine is a wonderful game, and I'd recommend more play it.
 

Vash

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,784
Oh man, been playing Dark Cloud, Dark Cloud 2 (Dark Chronicle here in Europe) and Rogue Galaxy again recently, and I would love a procedurally generated dungeon, 3D sci-fi action RPG with different worlds, things to collect/build, a fun quirky cast with PS5/XSX level graphics.

We're already getting Eiyuden, the spirital successor the Suikoden series, so that need is already met, now I want something akin to the Level-5 of old. I love the Ni No Kuni games, but those three classics is something I'd love to play. Heck, to create even.

Edit: Also, yeah, I agree that otaku pandering fanservice is the pits.
 

Sumio Mondo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,927
United Kingdom
I miss having more variety in art style. I can't stand the modern sterile looking "waifu" light novel aesthetic.
Look at this cool shit:

Kaneko is a god. One you don't kill in SMT, thankfully.

Have you played Cosmic Star Heroine or Cthulhu Saves Christmas? I'm pretty pleased with the battle system we devised for those games.

Cosmic Star Heroine is one I looked at and almost pulled the trigger on a while back, will get it once my backlog gets cleared up this Winter. It's in my wheelhouse though definitely and I will buy it, thanks. Have you heard of Pixel Noir? That's another one that reminded me of your game a bit (16-bit JRPG night time aesthetic). I think your pixels look better though.
 

Anoxida

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,531
I miss the pre-rendered backgrounds, the sparser use of fanservice, the emphasis on characters over story but most of all the Japanese composers back then were better than the current ones.