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JRPG fans, do you miss anything about the games from the 90s and 00s?
- Thread starter Rosenkrantz
- Start date
I think the tech limitations allowed for art and environments that give the impression of much more. Your mind filled in gaps and works of art were formed from the experience.
Towns and dungeons weren't ACTUALLY massive mazes. They just felt that way from the art, layout, and limited perspective. Midgar in remake somehow feels much smaller than Midgar in the original despite being much much larger in actual scale and explorable area.
I actually prefer most the ps1 quality graphics for rpgs for this reason.
Towns and dungeons weren't ACTUALLY massive mazes. They just felt that way from the art, layout, and limited perspective. Midgar in remake somehow feels much smaller than Midgar in the original despite being much much larger in actual scale and explorable area.
I actually prefer most the ps1 quality graphics for rpgs for this reason.
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This, 100000x this.
Even the tiny bits of Fanservice in games like Lunar and Tales of Destiny was weird to me back then, but I'd take those days back in a heartbeat.
I miss the quantity of mid-budget games. Back in the PS2 era, games came out rapidly and it felt like most of them had a decent budget. Atlus alone released SEVEN of their own RPGs and several published games on the PS2 era in NA and they generally ranged in quality from good to amazing.
Now, it feels like most long-running JRPG series are dead, and the ones that aren't get maybe one new installment a generation. For games that aren't made on a shoestring budget, you've got your DQ & FF titles and maybe a new Persona every 5-10 years and the occasional one-of like Ni no Kuni or what Mistwalker was doing in the 360 generation. For mid-budget titles, you've got Tales and Trails and that's about it. Even with Square-Enix, you get DQ & FF on the high end, and stuff like Octopath Traveler & Bravely Default on the low end, and there's not really anything in that mid-budget range.
EDIT: I'm sure I'm missing some, but here's a list of JRPG series that had at least one installment on the PS2 that was localized into English. I've put a * next to games that had multiple PS2 entries. Future generations just can't compete with this kind of quantity:
*.Hack series
*Ar Tonelico
*Arc the Lad
*Atelier Iris
Breath of Fire
*Dark Cloud
*Disgaea
Dragon Quest
*Final Fantasy
Front Mission
*Grandia
*Growlanser
Jade Cocoon
*Kingdom Hearts
Legaia
*Mana-Khemia
Metal Saga
*SaGa
Sakura Wars
*Shadow Hearts
*Devil Summoner
*Digital Devil Saga
SMT
*Persona
*Shining
Star Ocean
*Suikoden
*Tales of
Valkyrie Profile
*Wild Arms
*Xenosaga
Ys
Now, it feels like most long-running JRPG series are dead, and the ones that aren't get maybe one new installment a generation. For games that aren't made on a shoestring budget, you've got your DQ & FF titles and maybe a new Persona every 5-10 years and the occasional one-of like Ni no Kuni or what Mistwalker was doing in the 360 generation. For mid-budget titles, you've got Tales and Trails and that's about it. Even with Square-Enix, you get DQ & FF on the high end, and stuff like Octopath Traveler & Bravely Default on the low end, and there's not really anything in that mid-budget range.
EDIT: I'm sure I'm missing some, but here's a list of JRPG series that had at least one installment on the PS2 that was localized into English. I've put a * next to games that had multiple PS2 entries. Future generations just can't compete with this kind of quantity:
*.Hack series
*Ar Tonelico
*Arc the Lad
*Atelier Iris
Breath of Fire
*Dark Cloud
*Disgaea
Dragon Quest
*Final Fantasy
Front Mission
*Grandia
*Growlanser
Jade Cocoon
*Kingdom Hearts
Legaia
*Mana-Khemia
Metal Saga
*SaGa
Sakura Wars
*Shadow Hearts
*Devil Summoner
*Digital Devil Saga
SMT
*Persona
*Shining
Star Ocean
*Suikoden
*Tales of
Valkyrie Profile
*Wild Arms
*Xenosaga
Ys
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I really dislike the whole "Blinded by nostalgia" arguments people bring up. If you can't see the difference then I don't know what to say. They still make great JRPGs these days, but the genre is very different in tone, atmosphere, and general gameplay.
Dragon Quest XI is one of the few exceptions to the rule (except it's play time).
Dragon Quest XI is one of the few exceptions to the rule (except it's play time).
But that looks like the kind of sexual objectification that there has always existed... they have only become more evident in game because of increases in fidelity, but JRPGs always tendentiously sexually objectified women. I don't think you can say that older games did not have that. Fire Emblem has indeed moved in his direction more in recent entries but it's simply moved to be inline with something that already existed in the genre for a long time.
I say this because by and large this thread feels like a lot of people being like "i don't like sexually objectified women and there weren't any back when i played these games" which i don't think is true at all.
Kinda the same stuff i miss about gaming in general: sheer quantity, variety and experimentalism in the mid-budget/almost AAA camp.
Also, not having to necessarily feature social/dating sim elements in order to be allowed to exist on the market.
Also, not having to necessarily feature social/dating sim elements in order to be allowed to exist on the market.
There was stuff like Ayla in Chrono Trigger or the bromides in the Lunar games, but those are still a far cry from stuff like "Here's a mini-game where you rub body parts for stat bonuses while the character moans." And it'd be difficult to think of a classic JRPG that has as many sexualized character designs as something like Xenoblade 2.
OP
OP
They just feel like they were designed by actual people and not by the committee trying to pander to a specific audience because they can't take any risks. Not saying that all modern JRPGs are like that, but a sizable chunk of them is tailor-made for otaku crowd without trying to catch a broader audience.
Those looks great even today from those shots. Did you take that using real consoles with crt or shaders and emulator?I'm not a fan of the use of generic fonts that lack any style and the size of the font is so small I find difficult to read playing on a smaller screen.
I still got the old games and consoles.
Ding ding ding we have a winner.
Arguably most JRPGs pandered to otaku in their writing and characterisations back then, but at least the designs weren't doing so to boot
I wouldn't have said it back then, but I sorely miss there being NO voice acting. There was something about having to express via text that led to memorable and concise experiences, versus the budget helium filled lengthy exposition we have in games nowadays.
Yeah I think this is just a matter of what JRPGs you play because I feel there's plenty to choose from. I'm sure there's lots of bad JRPGs from the 90s that we just don't talk about anymore because, well, they were bad. It always makes the past gens look better when you only remember the absolute classics.
I agree on the feeling of adventure and the otaku pandering. The Otaku pandering has definitely been in JRPGs for awhile but right now it's like it's a major selling point. Even something little from Xenoblade 1 to 2's horrendous art style.
The sense of adventure I feel is alive in dungeon crawlers like Etrian Odyssey and Stranger of Sword City, at least for me in a different way. After Cold Steel which I hated I been laying off on turn-based RPGs, I want JRPGs to make a come back but I doubt they will. At least I got fan translations
The sense of adventure I feel is alive in dungeon crawlers like Etrian Odyssey and Stranger of Sword City, at least for me in a different way. After Cold Steel which I hated I been laying off on turn-based RPGs, I want JRPGs to make a come back but I doubt they will. At least I got fan translations
I miss cozy towns with pre-rendered backgrounds, and sometimes turn-based combat. But I don't miss random encounters. Gameplay-wise FFXII is my favourite though.
I really dislike that the trend with JRPGs seems to be making them more like charaction-action games and less turn-based combat games. Using FFVIIR as an example, I really dislike that it plays absolutely nothing like the original, and that you also can't plug-and-play your party. One of the coolest moments in FFVI is taking your party of 14 characters, splitting them into three teams of 4, and taking down Kefka. Similarly, in Suikoden 2, when you split your party into three groups of 6 to take down Luca Blight.
This trend of making everything a lite version of Devil May Cry and trying to create set pieces and set parties that wow the player is getting a bit stale, honestly.
This trend of making everything a lite version of Devil May Cry and trying to create set pieces and set parties that wow the player is getting a bit stale, honestly.
real console some with RGB scart modification fed into an OSSC upscaler. I sometimes take pics directly off the TV or use screen capture from an old capture card
I just miss having so many of them tbh. Something like DQXI is absolutely a 90s JRPG in every single way except the modern graphics and voice acting, and I loved it for it. Octopath, despite its serious issues, also scratched the itch. There's others of course, but they're getting rarer. We used to have so many new games coming out all the time back then. Just look Square-Enix output over the period:
1997: Final Fantasy 7
1998: Final Fantasy Tactics
1999: Final Fantasy 8
2000: Final Fantasy 9
2001: Final Fantasy 10
2002: Final Fantasy 11 and Kingdom Hearts
2003: Final Fantasy X-2 and Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles
2004: Dragon Quest VIII
2005: Kingdom Hearts 2
2006: Final Fantasy 12
That's not a comprehensive list, just some standouts that came to mind, and not counting handheld output. We just can't get this sort of constant barrage of games anymore.
1997: Final Fantasy 7
1998: Final Fantasy Tactics
1999: Final Fantasy 8
2000: Final Fantasy 9
2001: Final Fantasy 10
2002: Final Fantasy 11 and Kingdom Hearts
2003: Final Fantasy X-2 and Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles
2004: Dragon Quest VIII
2005: Kingdom Hearts 2
2006: Final Fantasy 12
That's not a comprehensive list, just some standouts that came to mind, and not counting handheld output. We just can't get this sort of constant barrage of games anymore.
Games are definitely padded for length more than they use to.
I use to crush the average jrpg in 30-40 and usually felt like an appropriate length. Now it feels like a lot are pushing into the 60+ range (if not more) but can't really justify it.
I use to crush the average jrpg in 30-40 and usually felt like an appropriate length. Now it feels like a lot are pushing into the 60+ range (if not more) but can't really justify it.
The speed of delivery and diversity of game worlds.
I'd take FFVII -> VIII -> IX quality and scope games on that timeline over five to ten years development cycles.
I'd take FFVII -> VIII -> IX quality and scope games on that timeline over five to ten years development cycles.
Turn-based combat, abundant text with no VO to support it, pre-rendered backgrounds, absence of dating/friendship mechanics.
Of all genres, I feel the least conflicted saying that JRPGs were better "then" than they are now.
Of all genres, I feel the least conflicted saying that JRPGs were better "then" than they are now.
OP
OP
Of course there's lots of bad JRPGs from the 90s and 00s, but there's a reason why this period also has most of the acclaimed games in the genre. And even besides the classic stuff, do we have modern equivalents of Parasite Eve or Shadow Hearts? I can't think of any.
There're still good games being made of course, but the lack of mid budget stuff definitely impacts variety of output.
Yeah it is a shame that Square aren't willing to have both the long development 3-D entries and another branch of entries in the classic style but with 4k backgrounds and modern character models. Instead we get Tokyo RPG factory...
Another vote for art style.
For me, one of the big turn-offs for the genre has been the really boring art styles (due to there being fewer JRPGs, so the spread is less). It's a lot of otaku bait, school settings, or m'lady-fantasy. I find those aesthetics super uninspired.
I miss being able to find multiple JRPGs with really funky settings that had no sense of time era, and occupied a world not analogous with ours. I don't think we'll ever get a time like that again, so I'm just happy I got to be around for the "golden age"
For me, one of the big turn-offs for the genre has been the really boring art styles (due to there being fewer JRPGs, so the spread is less). It's a lot of otaku bait, school settings, or m'lady-fantasy. I find those aesthetics super uninspired.
I miss being able to find multiple JRPGs with really funky settings that had no sense of time era, and occupied a world not analogous with ours. I don't think we'll ever get a time like that again, so I'm just happy I got to be around for the "golden age"
Not really, they were great for that time period but I wouldn't want any of that. Evolution is welcome.
I think for example I loved Lunar the Silver Star because it was the first time getting good cut scenes. I wouldn't be able to sit through them today but back then I was amazed. Sega CD, loved that thing.
I think for example I loved Lunar the Silver Star because it was the first time getting good cut scenes. I wouldn't be able to sit through them today but back then I was amazed. Sega CD, loved that thing.
It really does seem like money left on the table. And a way to let a whole bunch of talent quickly develop at a smaller scale.
I was talking specifically in regards to Fire Emblem (I didn't even post the most egregious examples), but even if what you're saying is true, mobile games didn't exist back then. There are gacha games now that have characters specifically designed to sell.
Look at Granblue Fantasy, Fate/Grand Order, Azur Lane, Brave Exvius, Dragalia Lost, Fire Emblem Heroes etc. Every so often, characters are designed to wear seasonal costumes like swimsuits, bunny outfits, winter costumes with cleavage.
Sexualization is more pronounced than before ever since game companies have found a business model to literally sell sexualized characters.
I dunno, there's still lots of "retro-inspired" JRPGs being released often, the games may not have the best budgets (that go to the modern JRPGs) but some of them are pretty good. And tbh the Xenoblade series has a better adventure feeling than any SNES/PSX JRPG, even the amazing Chrono Trigger feels pretty linear and limited today, and as you said Nihon Falcom games have a good mix of QoL features but a classic JRPG structure.
If something now we have lots of options, including retro games of course, and I prefer the variety we have today compared to the "trends" we had a few years before (generic fantasy setting, industrial-magical world setting...), as much as JRPG fans complain about Persona-inspired games, the reality is that most JRPGs don't use the highschool setting or the calendar system.
If something now we have lots of options, including retro games of course, and I prefer the variety we have today compared to the "trends" we had a few years before (generic fantasy setting, industrial-magical world setting...), as much as JRPG fans complain about Persona-inspired games, the reality is that most JRPGs don't use the highschool setting or the calendar system.
Turn-based combat. The news that the Trails series is moving away from it hit me hard, since it's a factor in why those are my favorite JRPGs.
Pretty much agreed with this, as someone who actually loves the high school/calendar system it's basically nowhere else besides Persona, Tokyo Xanadu, and a single Trails entry. Even Tokyo Mirage Sessions which features high schoolers doesn't really even focus too much on it, from what I've played of it at least.
While it's easy to fixate on the big name players moving away from what you love (though I'd argue Square Enix still covers the '90s-00s bases with Dragon Quest, FFXIV, and Bravely) there's still plenty out there that scratches the same itch.
I will admit the sexualization is way too common though, altho it's something I feel would have been around earlier had there not been the technical limitations and censorship of the era.
Let's wait and see what they finally do. I mean, as much as I like the Kiseki combat systems, they need to shake up the formula big time, Cold Steel has lasted 5 games (Hajimari plays and feels like a Cold Steel game for better or worse) and they have only added more and more elements instead of re-thinking the base of the combat systems.
I miss when keeping up with the expected production values didn't mean sacrificing environment variety. I would gladly, GLADLY take PS2 (or lower) graphics again if it meant going on a grandiose journey visiting wildly different places that didn't immediately look like cleverly repurposed high definition assets.
God of War 2018 gave me that feeling again for a while, but then you start visiting the other realms and it's all the same stuff but with different colors.
This is the number one thing I'd love to see but will never expect from Final Fantasy XVI. It would be incredible to be proven wrong, but it's still a AAA game.
God of War 2018 gave me that feeling again for a while, but then you start visiting the other realms and it's all the same stuff but with different colors.
This is the number one thing I'd love to see but will never expect from Final Fantasy XVI. It would be incredible to be proven wrong, but it's still a AAA game.
Similar to a lot of others, I miss world maps and airships, turn-based combat and controlling parties, epic globe-trotting adventures.
In general, RPGs of today need to remember why games of the past utilized abstraction. It's a key tool that's often all but forgotten now.
This assumption that people frequently throw out with regard to Fire Emblem's popularity increase with Awakening conveniently ignores all the way more important factors (radically increased marketing, quality of life, the massive appeal of Casual Mode, etc.).
In fact, Fates upped the fanservice from Awakening, and sold less, while Three Houses dramatically toned it down, and sold the most of any entry to-date.
In general, RPGs of today need to remember why games of the past utilized abstraction. It's a key tool that's often all but forgotten now.
This assumption that people frequently throw out with regard to Fire Emblem's popularity increase with Awakening conveniently ignores all the way more important factors (radically increased marketing, quality of life, the massive appeal of Casual Mode, etc.).
In fact, Fates upped the fanservice from Awakening, and sold less, while Three Houses dramatically toned it down, and sold the most of any entry to-date.
Yep, TMS#FE has more classic SMT elements (combat system for example) than Persona elements. No calendar system, no social links, no free day exploration... even the dungeons are traditional JRPG dungeons (Persona 3-4 had the random dungeons, and TMS precedes P5).
I feel this, there was a lot more abstraction in how things were in older JRPGs. Most things were a representation of something bigger, so even though it was a video game I always felt like 90s era JRPGs in particular required a bit of "theater of the mind", either in how a town actually looked, how characters actually looked, or a bunch of other things. It was nice and the genre felt a bit more connected to its DnD roots.
Also JRPGs back in the 90s felt more idk, i don't wanna use the word western but if you take FF7 for example even though it has distinctly has anime inspired artwork all over it, the game lacked a lot of traditional anime humor or big anime tropes which made the game feel like its own thing rather than anime adjacent stuff, which is how a lot of more modern JRPGs usually tend to feel. Compared to the remake which at times feels VERY anime.
I remember I had to quit Bravely Default because there's an hour long section where a pedophile press gangs the 14-year-old female lead into participating in a "sexy contest" that of course involved dressing up in bikinis and wedding dresses.
And this is a Nintendo-published game. If Nintendo's censorship won't even cut that, there's no hope for the genre.
Sorry. It's been several years, and I got the the dungeon crawling and the COMBAT perspective mixed up. I really didn't like SMT4's story or characters at all, and I only played Apocalypse for a few hours before I got bored because it was almost the same exact game visually and mechanically, aside from not wasting the first ten hours in Sky Japan. And the combat just being first person menus against almost totally static enemy sprites meant combat wasn't visually engaging to me in any way.
Like as someone who really likes Nocturne, I'm not sure what I was supposed to find so incredible about two games that do basically everything worse than their predecessor.
Scope and ambition. Feels like the PS1 era was the perfect time when you could have massive globe-trotting JRPGs with dozens of towns packed with unique assets, massive sweeping stories, and experimental combat systems without it costing 200 million dollars or being chopped into a multi-part release.
You can see this today with FF7R. Remaking a PS1 RPG with modern design sensibilities is a huge undertaking because of how massive those games were.
Also, no voice acting.
You can see this today with FF7R. Remaking a PS1 RPG with modern design sensibilities is a huge undertaking because of how massive those games were.
Also, no voice acting.
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It's a weird one. I love games pushing visual boundaries, but with JRPGs, I'm really missing the aesthetics of the 16-32 bit period. I dunno how much nostalgia is involved, but I love that there's so much (mostly indie) output the last few years building upon that style. But most of those games are platformers, metroidvanias or other genres, and seldomly (J)RPGs. I'm kinda hoping for more like Cosmic Star Heroine, which was a lovely and fun example of a modern take on the style and vibe. Eastward is another title that kinda seems to head in that direction, though it's visually waaay more advanced then what was possible back then. I'd pay silly money for someone going for the FFVI/CT/Star Ocean/Bahamut Lagoon/SD3 aesthetics in a 'classic' modern JRPG.