I included some choice quotes, but please read the whole thing for full context. The accounts and documentation are posted under the References section.
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Journal published backed by 117 doctors pleads to end documented torture of Assange
- Thread starter Deleted member 227
- Start date
I included some choice quotes, but please read the whole thing for full context. The accounts and documentation are posted under the References section.
He literally put himself in his situation. It's hard to care one way or another.
Edit: Let me rephrase... I don't condone torture at all. I'm not saying he deserves torture. Because of course, he doesn't. My point was I just don't care about Assange. I have many things to worry about. Assange is not one of them.
The guy was flinging shit at the wall of the Ecuadorian Embassy. That was literally the situation he put himself in. He could have walked out.
Edit: Let me rephrase... I don't condone torture at all. I'm not saying he deserves torture. Because of course, he doesn't. My point was I just don't care about Assange. I have many things to worry about. Assange is not one of them.
The guy was flinging shit at the wall of the Ecuadorian Embassy. That was literally the situation he put himself in. He could have walked out.
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I have as little sympathy for Assange as the next guy (and also how do 100+ doctors know what's up), but how on earth does a whistleblower (even a plant) put himself in a situation where torture is logical?
Only if you care about the needs of military over human decency.
Wasn't he already losing his mind while holed up in the embassy?
Terrifying if he's actually being tortured since he is so high profile, so out in the open. Still happens a lot that's for sure. I don't really doubt it in this case.
Terrifying if he's actually being tortured since he is so high profile, so out in the open. Still happens a lot that's for sure. I don't really doubt it in this case.
Just to clarify, the torture being referred to here is the 24/7 surveillance he was under at the embassy and the denial of adequate medical care at the embassy and now in prison.
While I agree he should have access to proper medical treatment, as should everyone held in custody, the noted psychological torture happened prior to him being placed in custody. His mental and physical state deteriorated over the 7 years of being restricted to the confines of the embassy.
Having said that, he should be able to access the same level of medical care that all other prisoners have access to, there is no reason to deny him that
While I agree he should have access to proper medical treatment, as should everyone held in custody, the noted psychological torture happened prior to him being placed in custody. His mental and physical state deteriorated over the 7 years of being restricted to the confines of the embassy.
Having said that, he should be able to access the same level of medical care that all other prisoners have access to, there is no reason to deny him that
You're forgetting the mandatory solitary confinement for no justifiable reason whatsoever
Only referring to the embassy situation makes this even more suspect. There was a valid arrest warrant vetted by multiple courts in the UK for serious alleged crimes. Doctors not wanting to enter the embassy under the conditions he created and him being afraid to leave the embassy because he'd actually be held accountable does not equal forced confinement. The fugitive holed up in a motel doesn't get to yell "no fair" when the SWAT team doesn't go home.
Third author: Jill Stein...
I decided to look up the the other 117 doctors and found this:
Dr Victoria Abdelnur MD Specialist in Integrative Trauma Therapy (https://victoriaabdelnur.com/#about)
It says she teaches "Teal Swan's Completion Process" which is some bullshit created by a YouTube spiritual advisor that apparently some people consider a cult (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teal_Swan).
At first I thought that whole list was going to be bullshit, but it turns out she was just the first one in the list ordered by last name, which is extremely unfortunate. I saw enough legitimate doctors that I stopped looking up their history after a while. There might be a few other duds in the list, though.
Anyway, my position on this is that I don't condone torture, but I also despise Assange with a burning passion. He went full blown Russian stooge in 2016, which is unforgivable to me.
While his 24/7 surveillance is unfortunate, it's also unrealistic to expect an embassy to not be surveilled 24/7. The claims about denial of access to medical care seem a little suspect too. The UK government wouldn't give him safe access to a hospital because he was an obvious flight risk. They allowed doctors to go into the embassy, but the article states that there was apparently a "climate of fear surrounding the provision of health care in the Embassy." I find that a little hard to believe. I also don't really find how Assange could possibly claim either of those things as constituting torture on him since his hiding out in the embassay is the reason why those conditions existed in the first place.
Also, the reports of Assange's physical health at his latest hearing in Oct. 2019 are cited as coming from Craig Murray, who apparently is a close associate with Assange and was involved in the DNC leaks of 2016 (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...-interfered-to-help-trump-win-election-report ctrl+f for "Craig Murray"), and the other eye witness cited is John Pilger, who is a huge stan for Assange. So not exactly unbiased sources, there.
I'm sorry, but this all seems like bullshit to me. Every source that Assange is being tortured is an Assange associate. I missed the Melzer thread, so I don't know his history, but one of the comments mentioned that his history apparently de-railed that thread too.
Again, while I don't condone torture, I'm sorry, but the sourcing on all these claims is way too biased for me to take it at face value.
I decided to look up the the other 117 doctors and found this:
Dr Victoria Abdelnur MD Specialist in Integrative Trauma Therapy (https://victoriaabdelnur.com/#about)
It says she teaches "Teal Swan's Completion Process" which is some bullshit created by a YouTube spiritual advisor that apparently some people consider a cult (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teal_Swan).
At first I thought that whole list was going to be bullshit, but it turns out she was just the first one in the list ordered by last name, which is extremely unfortunate. I saw enough legitimate doctors that I stopped looking up their history after a while. There might be a few other duds in the list, though.
Anyway, my position on this is that I don't condone torture, but I also despise Assange with a burning passion. He went full blown Russian stooge in 2016, which is unforgivable to me.
While his 24/7 surveillance is unfortunate, it's also unrealistic to expect an embassy to not be surveilled 24/7. The claims about denial of access to medical care seem a little suspect too. The UK government wouldn't give him safe access to a hospital because he was an obvious flight risk. They allowed doctors to go into the embassy, but the article states that there was apparently a "climate of fear surrounding the provision of health care in the Embassy." I find that a little hard to believe. I also don't really find how Assange could possibly claim either of those things as constituting torture on him since his hiding out in the embassay is the reason why those conditions existed in the first place.
Also, the reports of Assange's physical health at his latest hearing in Oct. 2019 are cited as coming from Craig Murray, who apparently is a close associate with Assange and was involved in the DNC leaks of 2016 (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...-interfered-to-help-trump-win-election-report ctrl+f for "Craig Murray"), and the other eye witness cited is John Pilger, who is a huge stan for Assange. So not exactly unbiased sources, there.
I'm sorry, but this all seems like bullshit to me. Every source that Assange is being tortured is an Assange associate. I missed the Melzer thread, so I don't know his history, but one of the comments mentioned that his history apparently de-railed that thread too.
Again, while I don't condone torture, I'm sorry, but the sourcing on all these claims is way too biased for me to take it at face value.
Most of this was Assange's own doing. His own decisions and him trying to escape the law brought him in that stressful environment. Sure, there was probably some kind of psychological "warfare" going on, but that it's probably common with most of the cases involving a fugitive.
This is actually a pretty muddled story as it's based on his October appearance and has been a escalating complaint since. But other sources say that he was removed from solitary confinement after the initial complaints and his health has greatly improved. With the obvious politics involved, it's hard to tell the truth of the current situation (though obviously his initial treatment was inhumane in both versions of the story...)
He was wanted for trial in Sweden. He was going to Sweden.
Assange relies on the gullibility of others when he spins these conspiracy theories to justify him literally running away from rape and sexual assault charges. Stop letting him get away with it.
Are you following the conversation the post you quoted is a part of?
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Unless im missing something, the medical report is solely regarding his condition while at the embassy.
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Page 4 (5 in the PDF) mentions he was in isolation for 23 hours a day in prison prior to the embassy, over 9 days.
Ok. I gotcha now. I thought we were talking about his current imprisonment
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Read Reference 7, the UN Human Rights investigator brought in two medical experts to conduct a medical examination and assessment, which the second choice quote is from. And as per Reference 8, the UK Government blocked further investigation and rejected further measures required by international law.
It's weird that so many are more or less saying Julian had it coming. Heck, seems like actual terrorist get more symphaty then Assange. I mean when CIA torture programs made headlines people were just against the programs, nobody said people tortured had it coming, even tho some of them were actual terrorists.
I struggle to find any redeeming features in this post. It's just malice.
It's possible to contain multiple thoughts simultaneously in one human brain. We have to stop hagifying or villainizing people in the same way we have to stop deciding movies are either the best thing ever or the worst.
assange was kept in deplorable conditions while in prison
Assange is diplomatic hot potato who feels forced and cornered into his situation in the embassy
assange is a wretched person and credibly accused rapist
Wikipedia exposed serious malfeasance by the USA and uk governments and did a public good
assange targeted political enemies of his sponsors and buried and ignored negative stories about those sponsors
Assange should be offered legal protection or amnesty to end his situation but remain responsible for his alleged crimes and have his day in court - as should one of his accusers who still wishes his charges could be
Assange would be a terrible houseguest and he is not your friend
assange should be subject to the laws of wherever he ends up and shouldn't be illegally rendered or extradited without basis in law
assange and wikileaks are Russian cutouts and are not genuinely interested in your freedom and indeed support and protect a country with horrific human rights and democratic abuses
assange was kept in deplorable conditions while in prison
Assange is diplomatic hot potato who feels forced and cornered into his situation in the embassy
assange is a wretched person and credibly accused rapist
Wikipedia exposed serious malfeasance by the USA and uk governments and did a public good
assange targeted political enemies of his sponsors and buried and ignored negative stories about those sponsors
Assange should be offered legal protection or amnesty to end his situation but remain responsible for his alleged crimes and have his day in court - as should one of his accusers who still wishes his charges could be
Assange would be a terrible houseguest and he is not your friend
assange should be subject to the laws of wherever he ends up and shouldn't be illegally rendered or extradited without basis in law
assange and wikileaks are Russian cutouts and are not genuinely interested in your freedom and indeed support and protect a country with horrific human rights and democratic abuses
Honestly, after 2016 and how Assange and his organization Wikileaks selectively released info and held onto to and refused to release other info in order to shape and manipulate media headlines. I don't trust anything anyone of his friends' or associates' claims or what they say. I see it as nothing more than more media manipulation, which history shows they seem to be very good at doing.
I do hope the UK is treating him justly. And most of all I hope his rape victims get their day in court, and get justice.
I do hope the UK is treating him justly. And most of all I hope his rape victims get their day in court, and get justice.
This is despicable. No matter what this man may have done, solitary confinement is torture and goes against any principle of human dignity.
I didn't know we actually still psychologically tortured people to gain a confession. I mean.. do we?
He's probably got a lot of psychological damage acquired in the past few years in the high stress position he put himself in as lead of Wikileaks and the whole embassy episode. Reports coming from the embassy did already show signs of high stress, anxiety and psychological deterioration as well. Then he didn't bathe or take care of his favourite cat, which are signs of clinical depression as well.
So yeah his brain is not doing too hot.. I'm willing to bet most of it was already like that before he got into custody though.
He's probably got a lot of psychological damage acquired in the past few years in the high stress position he put himself in as lead of Wikileaks and the whole embassy episode. Reports coming from the embassy did already show signs of high stress, anxiety and psychological deterioration as well. Then he didn't bathe or take care of his favourite cat, which are signs of clinical depression as well.
So yeah his brain is not doing too hot.. I'm willing to bet most of it was already like that before he got into custody though.
Law enforcement trying to catch a fugitive is not torture, so anything related to his conditions in the Equadorian embassy is BS. The UN dude obviously has an agenda. If he is being maltreated in prison now it is obvious that that should be corrected to the better.
Do you mean the publication? The Lancet is the biggest or 2nd biggest clinical medical journal in the world.
the lancet is an extremely credible publication — but this isn't a medical conclusion it's editorial in nature- many of the doctors on that list are credible and many are not- the credible ones are making the assertion that nobody should be subjected to torture or emotional torture.
thr lancet editorially plainly supports that view in a vacuum, subject person aside and irrelevant.
there are however a few people on that list who would be rejected outright as scientific contributors were they submitting articles - and several were f course who're friends and acquaintances of assange and who's opinions on his ethical professional behavior prior to and since his confinement should be viewed as biased, meaningless or worse.
so - Lancet- extremely prestigious medical journal agrees that solitary confinement and the embassy situation should be considered inhumane medically- regardless of whether asange is a tool or not.
I give you that The Lancet is extremely prestigious but to say that they're extremely credible is debatable. Wakefield MMR-vaccine article comes to mind. Also the letter again tries to pin Assanges living conditions in the embassy on UK authorities which is nonsense since they did not force him to stay there. This letter is an insult to political prisoners and torture victims and The Lancet seems to be after the publicity which ought to be beneath them.
The guy asking was thinking like, Daily Mail. And I was careful to point out the issues with this being editorial and grouping fringe loons with serious doctors.