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Should there be a new OT for From the Ashes Era

  • Yes, and I will participate.

    Votes: 11 47.8%
  • Yes, but I probably won't participate.

    Votes: 6 26.1%
  • No. Keep the conversation here.

    Votes: 3 13.0%
  • No. I have no interest in From the Ashes.

    Votes: 2 8.7%
  • Let's just talk about it on the Comics Era OT.

    Votes: 1 4.3%

  • Total voters
    23
  • This poll will close: .

Manmademan

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Aug 6, 2018
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The last page of each of the X titles should have a reading list with the correct order and what to read next. Something like:

X-Men 4
Marauders 4
>>>> X-Force 4
New Mutants 5
Hellions 2

As long as you follow those reading orders you should be fine, and feel free to skip any title you don't care for. If you don't like New Mutants, don't bother. You may miss some nuances here and there but it's not like you'll be completely lost.

Great point.

Also note that there are occasional "red issues" where the title of the book in the last page of the upcoming reading list will be in red typeface instead of black.

These indicate issues that should not be skipped as important events occur, though in some cases (children of the atom #1 comes to mind) it may not be immediately obvious what the event is.
 

DarthMasta

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Feb 17, 2018
3,907
I'm reading on Marvel Unlimited and for the moment just reading as they were released has been working fine.
 

Manmademan

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Aug 6, 2018
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Wow X-Men was amazing! I loved every second of it.

And X-Men Legends was fun and we finally get the full Summers Family tree.

My only confusion is since when is Hope considered a blood relative of the Summers line, she's Cable's adopted daughter.

Hope has a purple line indicating she's adopted.

Though the bigger issue is that Adam X is really in his own category as he doesn't have any "summers" DNA at all, since he's katherine's son but not Corsair's.

The "summers family bloodline" that Sinister was obsessed with goes back to oscar stamp and danny edge in 1859 and appears to be paternal in nature. Katherine's DNA by itself shouldn't be relevant.
 

Pluto

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,417
The "summers family bloodline" that Sinister was obsessed with goes back to oscar stamp and danny edge in 1859 and appears to be paternal in nature. Katherine's DNA by itself shouldn't be relevant.
Unless the only part Sinister is interested in is the Y chromosome going by the male line only doesn't make sense and the Y chromosome is pretty lame, its only job is to make the baby male.
 

Manmademan

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Aug 6, 2018
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Unless the only part Sinister is interested in is the Y chromosome going by the male line only doesn't make sense and the Y chromosome is pretty lame, its only job is to make the baby male.

You and I both know that trying to bring real world science into comics doesn't work.

All we know is that sinister noticed something in the DNA of Danny (and his descendants, who were all male that we know of) and spent centuries tracing that bloodline and trying to combine it with others to create the ultimate mutant.

Katherine's has never been relevant at all.

Also: LOL at elevating Adam-X to near Omega Mutant status with this then having him *forget* holy shit. I can't think of the last time marvel made a character THIS busted. Death Battles will have a field day.
 
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Pluto

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,417
You and I both know that trying to bring real world science into comics doesn't work.
Usually I'd agree but X-Men specifically has genetics and the X-gene as part of its premise so I would have hoped that they at least recognized that the male line being more important doesn't make sense when it comes to DNA in most cases.

It would be more interesting if Sinister was interested in the female line because of the mitochondrial DNA which everyone gets from their mother. That could easily disappear from the gene pool when there are no female descendants and Scott only having brothers could explain Sinister's running out of time. Of course then it wouldn't be "Summers" DNA as it came from Katherine and none of the previous Summers generations would have had it but it would make Scott, Alex and Adam equally important for Sinister's plans.
 
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Dalek

Dalek

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Oct 25, 2017
38,901
X-Men was absolutely incredible today. My favorite issue probably all year.

So -stupid question- only Everette remembers what happened? Laura was restored to a backup from before she entered the vault?

Krakoa is so screwed if all of the Children now have Darwin's powers. Time to make some Chimeras.
 

Manmademan

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Aug 6, 2018
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Usually I'd agree but X-Men specifically has genetics and the X-gene as part of its premise

You undermine your own argument here. Note that the "x-gene" is not the "x-chromosome."

Where is the X-gene found in real world terms? What does it look like? Why does it (usually) only turn on at puberty? Why can it not be found through a simple blood test, but only via mutant hunting sentinels?

Trying to explain away the X-men using real world rationalizations on DNA and genes breaks down immediately.

It would be more interesting if Sinister was interested in the female line because of the mitochondrial DNA which everyone gets from their mother. That could easily disappear from the gene pool when there are no female descendants and Scott only having brothers could explain Sinister's running out of time. Of course then it wouldn't be "Summers" DNA as it came from Katherine and none of the previous Summers generations would have had it but it would make Scott, Alex and Adam equally important for Sinister's plans.

Unfortunately marvel did not do this, and established the "summers bloodline" ran through a paternal line going back 200 years instead.

And while scott only has brothers, there are two female "summers children" descendants- Ruby Summers and Rachel Grey so whatever the X-gene is, isn't a sex linked trait, its something else.

(though notably the ultimate mutant sinister was attempting to create is male in both timelines we've seen him do it.)

If Sinister is interested in "summers DNA" as he has consistently been since inception, Adam X shouldn't be on his radar- because he doesn't have any.
 
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Manmademan

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Aug 6, 2018
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X-Men was absolutely incredible today. My favorite issue probably all year.

So -stupid question- only Everette remembers what happened? Laura was restored to a backup from before she entered the vault?

Yes. Synch was the only one who made it out. The other two don't have their vault memories.

Krakoa is so screwed if all of the Children now have Darwin's powers. Time to make some Chimeras.

I didn't read it this way. I read it as the City didn't have the ability to evolve the children of the Vault to the 4th generation.

The City when it got ahold of Darwin used his body's ability to rapidly adapt its evolution to facilitate the process that would allow the children of the vault to evolve from 3rd generation to 4th by atomizing it and spreading his material throughout the vault.

They aren't a bunch of Darwins, but they are more powerful and evolved versions than the third generation children that Synch/Darwin/Laura fought for 100 years.
 

deimosmasque

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Apr 22, 2018
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Hope has a purple line indicating she's adopted.

Though the bigger issue is that Adam X is really in his own category as he doesn't have any "summers" DNA at all, since he's katherine's son but not Corsair's.

The "summers family bloodline" that Sinister was obsessed with goes back to oscar stamp and danny edge in 1859 and appears to be paternal in nature. Katherine's DNA by itself shouldn't be relevant.
Lol. How did I miss that.
 
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Dalek

Dalek

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Oct 25, 2017
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First references to Ruby Summers, Hyperstorm and Genesis that I've seen in forever.
 

Manmademan

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First references to Ruby Summers, Hyperstorm and Genesis that I've seen in forever.

Ruby showed up for a significant role during Secret Wars (2015) but the other two are definitely banished to some obscure comic hell and won't be seen again for a while.

edit: nobody seems to remember Havok's daughter with Wasp either- that one is fairly egregious since she was a product of 616.
 

The Adder

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,086
This is a really easy No-Prize:

Adam is powerful because he is a mutant and Shiar, independent of his specific bloodline. But the reason Alex, Scott, Gabe, and Adam can't hurt one another with their powers is due to their mother's genetics, not the Summers' blood.
 

Manmademan

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Aug 6, 2018
15,988
This is a really easy No-Prize:

not as easy as you might think:

Adam is powerful because he is a mutant and Shiar, independent of his specific bloodline.

Yes, but this issue puts him squarely in the "omega mutant" category even if they never use that particular phrasing. Adam claims that if you have so much as a papercut he can kill you from the other side of the galaxy and there is no limit to the amount of people he can affect at once. If that's anywhere remotely close to true Adam could knock out half the life in the galaxy i.e. Thanos without breaking a sweat.

He shouldn't be anywhere near that strong, he's the most busted mutant in a very long time.

But the reason Alex, Scott, Gabe, and Adam can't hurt one another with their powers is due to their mother's genetics, not the Summers' blood.

Gabe can easily hurt the other three. Alex and Scott aren't immune from his powers.
 

deimosmasque

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Ruby showed up for a significant role during Secret Wars (2015) but the other two are definitely banished to some obscure comic hell and won't be seen again for a while.

edit: nobody seems to remember Havok's daughter with Wasp either- that one is fairly egregious since she was a product of 616.

Wasn't her entire timeline erased though?
 

The Adder

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Oct 25, 2017
18,086
Yes, but this issue puts him squarely in the "omega mutant" category even if they never use that particular phrasing. Adam claims that if you have so much as a papercut he can kill you from the other side of the galaxy and there is no limit to the amount of people he can affect at once. If that's anywhere remotely close to true Adam could knock out half the life in the galaxy without an infinity gauntlet without breaking a swea
That's not really relevant to what I'm mo prizing. Power levels and potential in comics don't really interest me. I'm talking genetic relevance of their having the same mother.
Gabe can easily hurt the other three. Alex and Scott aren't immune from his powers.
Oh yeah, that's right. And Alex's powers work on him. Sounds like a perfect situation to square this circle by finding out Corsair's his dad, but he's got a different mom.
 

Manmademan

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Wasn't her entire timeline erased though?

Not really. her timeline is/was 616.

Havok and Wasp just ended up time traveling back several years earlier and preventing Exitar from blowing up the planet. Her timeline isn't "erased" though because Immortus gave Havok and Wasp the exact time they could conceive her if they wanted to bring her back. Not someone "like" her, the exact same kid.

We don't know when that is, because Havok and Wasp were away for "years." They could still have time.
 

Manmademan

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That's not really relevant to what I'm mo prizing. Power levels and potential in comics don't really interest me. I'm talking genetic relevance of their having the same mother.

well, let me put it another way. It would be *very weird* to have the most powerful summers brother (yes, this would put him past vulcan) have no summers DNA whatsoever and just be katherine's child.

It's just very, very strange.
 

sven

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Oct 31, 2017
2,544
I'm finally about to restart HoX/PoX after finishing my 2004-15 X-Men read-thru. That was fun. Now I have 149 issues (and counting) of the Krakoa-era to catch up on on MU. So I should be caught up to three months behind in five or six months.
 

The Adder

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Oct 25, 2017
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well, let me put it another way. It would be *very weird* to have the most powerful summers brother (yes, this would put him past vulcan) have no summers DNA whatsoever and just be katherine's child.

It's just very, very strange.
It's really not. He's ludicrously powerful (and it's not really that powerful, he's got an absolutely insane range on a power that is lethal, but not actually that impressive) because he was genetically engineered to be ludicrously powerful and is both a mutant human and a member of the most powerful bloodline of a powerful alien species.
 

Manmademan

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It's really not. He's ludicrously powerful (and it's not really that powerful, he's got an absolutely insane range on a power that is lethal, but not actually that impressive)

He claims the range is "the entire galaxy" so uh...I would put that in the "impressive" column. Yeah, you need to have blood exposed to air somehow but most people end up with minor cuts and abrasions they don't really think about on a daily basis.

because he was genetically engineered to be ludicrously powerful and is both a mutant human and a member of the most powerful bloodline of a powerful alien species.

The Shi'ar have never shown the ability to create anything with THAT kind of power ever- neither have the Kree, the Skrulls, the Spartax, etc etc. Adam says flat out he could kill billions of people from orbit without ever actually touching a planet's surface. The existence of someone that insane (let alone the ability to make more of him via cloning and engineering) would end all war on a galactic level immediately. You can't fight against someone like that when half your population could fall down dead at a moment's notice.

edit: Thanos finger snapping away half the life in the universe was considered such a catastrophic event that the cosmic abstracts got involved. Adam could in theory do the same shit. It's totally absurd.

double edit: also absurd is that the Shi'ar are presumably well aware of just how strong he is, but their entire concern is that he might end up making a claim to sit on the Shi'ar throne, not that he is a ludicriously powerful bioengineered weapon that could devastate their entire species with a thought. They just mindwipe him and let him wander around the cornfields of iowa and consider the issue closed.
 
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The Adder

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Oct 25, 2017
18,086
He claims the range is "the entire galaxy" so uh...I would put that in the "impressive" column. Yeah, you need to have blood exposed to air somehow but most people end up with minor cuts and abrasions they don't really think about on a daily basis.
"Kill people" is not an impressive power. It's the range that makes him impressive, but unlike with most Omega level mutants he would get his ass kicked one on one with anyone with mild super strength and a healing factor.

Shit, he doesn't survive a fight with Wolverine if Logan really wants him dead. You can't say the same about Gabriel.
The Shi'ar have never shown the ability to create anything with THAT kind of power ever- neither have the Kree, the Skrulls, the Spartax, etc etc.
Yes, creating "that kind of power" is the piint of of contributing an x-gene to the already powerful Shiar. You remember that in x^100 the Shiar were harboring mutants because of their potential, right?
 

Manmademan

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"Kill people" is not an impressive power. It's the range that makes him impressive, but unlike with most Omega level mutants he would get his ass kicked one on one with anyone with mild super strength and a healing factor.

Adam has the ability to impose a range of power on an individual from "mild warming sensation" all the way up to Certain Death. "Mild Super strength and a healing factor" describes all of the shi'ar assassins he took out in today's issue, including Erik the Red.

marvel.fandom.com

Erik the Red (Earth-616)

17 appearance(s) of Erik the Red (Earth-616) 5 appearance(s) in handbook(s) of Erik the Red (Earth-616) 8 minor appearance(s) of Erik the Red (Earth-616) 7 mention(s) of Erik the Red (Earth-616) 1 mention(s) in handbook(s) of Erik the Red (Earth-616) 14 image(s) of Erik the Red (Earth-616)

Physical strength doesn't seem to matter- Adam one shot ETR and his entire crew right after erik tanked a combined hit from a scott and alex that weren't holding back. If he wants you dead, you are- which is what he was explaining to no one in particular. If we take adam at his word he could do the same thing to one trillion Erik The Reds from any point in the galaxy without taxing himself. Can vulcan pull that off? No. I'm not sure any of the current Omega Mutants are in that class, now that Franklin is out.

Shit, he doesn't survive a fight with Wolverine if Logan really wants him dead. You can't say the same about Gabriel.

this is a weird one. Wolverine is well below the power level of the people taken out this issue. No reason to assume he survives.

Yes, creating "that kind of power" is the piint of of contributing an x-gene to the already powerful Shiar. You remember that in x^100 the Shiar were harboring mutants because of their potential, right?

The shi'ar aren't particularly powerful as a species. The imperial guard are the top of the pile and most of those are from other species within the empire, not Shi'ar per se. Gladiator for instance is Strontian, not Shi'ar. Deathbird (remember her?) is an *unusually powerful* genetic throwback and she's only really around where wolverine is in terms of physical ability.

Lilandra is a more typical example, and she's "about" baseline human in terms of her abilities and potential- and she was the empress, not some random citizen.

The Shi'ar were harboring mutants in the future because the X-men have long established diplomatic ties with the shi'ar royal family AND it's an interstellar refuge where the machines couldn't go.
 
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deimosmasque

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Yeah the range on Adam-X's power is a bit character wanky and honestly the low point of the issue. The only argument I could make is that since it's told from his perspective it's just his massive ego getting to him.
 

Manmademan

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Yeah the range on Adam-X's power is a bit character wanky and honestly the low point of the issue. The only argument I could make is that since it's told from his perspective it's just his massive ego getting to him.

It's stupidly broken and I hope it gets retconned as you describe. I want this Adam X back:

862178-adam_x_01.jpg


Extreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeme

While we're here- whose arm was that at the end of the issue watching Sinister? Couldn't place it.
 

The Adder

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Oct 25, 2017
18,086
Adam has the ability to impose a range of power on an individual from "mild warming sensation" all the way up to Certain Death. "Mild Super strength and a healing factor" describes all of the shi'ar assassins he took out in today's issue, including Erik the Red.

marvel.fandom.com

Erik the Red (Earth-616)

17 appearance(s) of Erik the Red (Earth-616) 5 appearance(s) in handbook(s) of Erik the Red (Earth-616) 8 minor appearance(s) of Erik the Red (Earth-616) 7 mention(s) of Erik the Red (Earth-616) 1 mention(s) in handbook(s) of Erik the Red (Earth-616) 14 image(s) of Erik the Red (Earth-616)

Physical strength doesn't seem to matter- Adam one shot ETR and his entire crew right after erik tanked a combined hit from a scott and alex that weren't holding back. If he wants you dead, you are- which is what he was explaining to no one in particular.



this is a weird one. Wolverine is well below the power level of the people taken out this issue. No reason to assume he survives.



The shi'ar aren't particularly powerful as a species. The imperial guard are the top of the pile and most of those are from other species within the empire, not Shi'ar per se. Gladiator for instance is Strontian, not Shi'ar. Deathbird (remember her?) is an *unusually powerful* genetic throwback and she's only really around where wolverine is in terms of physical ability.

The Shi'ar were harboring mutants in the future because the X-men have long established diplomatic ties with the shi'ar royal family AND it's an interstellar refuge where the machines couldn't go.
Firstly: Erik the Red doesn't have a healing factor. The entire point is that the power to kill isn't actually that powerful against people who don't die. Adam's range is impressive. His actual power isn't.

(Also, Erik didn't tank that blast, he got knocked down and the next time we see him he's being picked up by Adam).

Second: Shiar can lift a literal ton and Lilandra, at the very least (who Adam is the biological nephew of) just naturally had TP. They pretty damn powerful compared to humans.

Third: PoX 1 says that were keeping the 2,000 living on the Shiar Homeworld as warrior stock for the guard outright.
 

deimosmasque

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Apr 22, 2018
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Yeah looking at it a second time your right. When I first read it I just saw red bracer and assumed it was him.
 

Manmademan

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Aug 6, 2018
15,988
Firstly: Erik the Red doesn't have a healing factor. The entire point is that the power to kill isn't actually that powerful against people who don't die. Adam's range is impressive. His actual power isn't.

??? people with healing factors die all the time. Wolverine himself has already died this run and been brought back. Wild Child died at least once during Hellions, though it's hard to keep track of who dies when in that book because it happens so frequently.

(Also, Erik didn't tank that blast, he got knocked down and the next time we see him he's being picked up by Adam).

Erik took a combined shot from Cyclops and Havok that were "cutting loose" (per their words) and wasn't knocked out or down, just knocked back. Adam wasn't "picking him up" Adam was slashing him to draw blood like he was the rest of his assassins.

Second: Shiar can lift a literal ton

No they can't.

J8LX81K.png


Operation Galactic Storm. Wasp says so flat out, and that Shi'ar Member of the imperial guard can't overcome her physically without increasing her mass- which is a mutation, not a racial trait.

and Lilandra, at the very least (who Adam is the biological nephew of) just naturally had TP.

Which is a mutation, not a shi'ar racial trait. D'ken doesn't have TP and neither did Deathbird. Mutants exist among all species.

They pretty damn powerful compared to humans.

They're physically on par, with a potential for mutations and genetic throwbacks, exactly as humans have.

Third: PoX 1 says that were keeping the 2,000 living on the Shiar Homeworld as warrior stock for the guard outright.

Warrior stock for the guard means they're serving in the guard which is..where you'd expect them to be. Earth mutants are a lot stronger than your typical Shi'ar, as seen above.
 
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nitekrawler

Member
Oct 28, 2017
312
I mean, it's the only logical way I see it working. Darwin leveling up so much while being disentergrated he levels himself up past life makes more sense than simply being exploded.

They could have made a mistake. Thinking he was dead but finding him later. It would make a fun moral dilemma for their precious resurrection protocols. I can see how Synch's memories might have them think he's gone but the reality is closer to what you've described.
 

Manmademan

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Aug 6, 2018
15,988
They could have made a mistake. Thinking he was dead but finding him later.

I think this one is unlikely, if for no other reason than how time works within the vault. He'd have been in there a hundred thousand years by the time they tried it again, minimum. Whatever he would be by then would be unrecognizable, if he were still "alive."

It would make a fun moral dilemma for their precious resurrection protocols.

X-factor is exploring this with Prodigy, believe it or not. Doesn't look like he was actually "dead" when they put him through the resurrection protocols. This is playing out.
 

nitekrawler

Member
Oct 28, 2017
312
I think this one is unlikely, if for no other reason than how time works within the vault. He'd have been in there a hundred thousand years by the time they tried it again, minimum. Whatever he would be by then would be unrecognizable, if he were still "alive."



X-factor is exploring this with Prodigy, believe it or not. Doesn't look like he was actually "dead" when they put him through the resurrection protocols. This is playing out.

It's also hard to believe that he would just stay in the vault had he evolved beyond his physical body.

I totally forgot about Prodigy.
 

OrochiJR

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Oct 29, 2017
1,681
When getting into Hickman's X-Men run via the physical trade paperbacks (yes I am that old), what is the correct reading order after House/Powers of X? All of the Dawn of X trades and then X of Swords?
 

TheMadTitan

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Oct 27, 2017
27,202
When getting into Hickman's X-Men run via the physical trade paperbacks (yes I am that old), what is the correct reading order after House/Powers of X? All of the Dawn of X trades and then X of Swords?
Just follow the last page. Each book provides the reading order and highlights in red which issues are the most important.

If you end up reading Juggernaut, that takes place whenever.
 

Pluto

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,417
When getting into Hickman's X-Men run via the physical trade paperbacks (yes I am that old), what is the correct reading order after House/Powers of X? All of the Dawn of X trades and then X of Swords?
Yes, all of Dawn of X and then X of Swords which takes place after Dawn of X 16. I'm reading that way too.
 

sven

Member
Oct 31, 2017
2,544
I just wanted to say that following along with this thread while I catch up has really enhanced my re-read thus far.

I do have a question though. Are there any non-X-Men stories that deal with Krakoa that I should add to my reading list? I already have Marvel 1000 for the Apoc story and I know there was an issue of Deadpool that features Krakoa but Wades new title is already included in this reading list. So any others I should add?
 

Mr. Poolman

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
6,975
I just wanted to say that following along with this thread while I catch up has really enhanced my re-read thus far.

I do have a question though. Are there any non-X-Men stories that deal with Krakoa that I should add to my reading list? I already have Marvel 1000 for the Apoc story and I know there was an issue of Deadpool that features Krakoa but Wades new title is already included in this reading list. So any others I should add?
Have you read Gwenpool?
If you like that, she is currently appearing on MODOK: Head Games.
 

Mr. Poolman

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
6,975
BTW.

Today's Excalibur was nice, I've never felt anything regarding Malice, and now she is an interesting character. Good stuff.

Marauders was not my favorite, but liked the callbacks to Madripoor, the Princess Bar and those old school Morlocks.