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Should there be a new OT for From the Ashes Era

  • Yes, and I will participate.

    Votes: 11 47.8%
  • Yes, but I probably won't participate.

    Votes: 6 26.1%
  • No. Keep the conversation here.

    Votes: 3 13.0%
  • No. I have no interest in From the Ashes.

    Votes: 2 8.7%
  • Let's just talk about it on the Comics Era OT.

    Votes: 1 4.3%

  • Total voters
    23
  • This poll will close: .

Kanhir

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,888
Well maybe not huge to the overall plot I was a little annoyed at missing both
Xavier's death and resurrection
I read up to X-Men #7 and it felt very disjointed.
X-Men isn't an ongoing, it's essentially a series of setups/pitches for future plotlines. It's unfortunate that they named it after the historical main series because it really isn't a series.

The plot you're referencing takes place in the first few chapters of X-Force, if you're interested.
 

Mistouze

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,430
I'd say that for the early "Dawn of X" stories, the most relevant books are X-Force and Marauders. While Excalibur seems to be doing its own thing it does the set up for the X of Swords event.
 

Kanhir

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,888
Is Wolverine: BWB actually good? I've been avoiding it because Wolverine comics tend to be painfully edgy, but I'm getting slight FOMO now that the miniseries is ending this week.
 

deimosmasque

Ugly, Queer, Gender-Fluid, Drive-In Mutant, yes?
Moderator
Apr 22, 2018
14,159
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I do wonder if that was the original plan of having nearly an enitre extra year made them come up with some changes.
 

Manmademan

Election Thread Watcher
Member
Aug 6, 2018
15,985
Children of the Atom: So we all agree that they're human, right?

I don't think so.

There was a whole lot of "nothing" here for a red issue. I'm inclined to think that there isn't "nothing" happening but some significant things that might not be obvious.

regarding the gate- it's not exactly clear to me what happened, but it looked like either they or the gate "freaked out" when they touched it. Humans just pass right through the gates without incident, so I don't think these kids are human.

We see also that Cerebro can't detect these kids at all...which is very strange. Speculation is that one of them is a TP and might be shielding them from cerebro, but "marvel guy" doesn't appear to be anywhere near powerful enough to do that, let alone experienced enough to shield himself that way from tech he knows nothing about.

And finally- these mutant kids all seem to have powers of mutants that are already established. Not a single one seems to be an original concept...and one of them seems to have more than one ability, which isn't typical.

"Cherub" has wings that look a LOT like Warren Worthington when he was in his "death" phase when they're active, but appears to have sonic powers like Banshee on top of that.

"Gimmick" is charging and exploding things like Gambit does.

"Marvel Guy" is a telepath obviously meant to be a callback to Jean.

"Cyclops Lass" has cyclops' optic blasts, but controllable and at a lower power level.

"Daycrawler" can teleport like nightcrawler does, and has his toes and tail....sometimes?

I...can't think of the last time I saw a team of people pop up that were ALL obvious rip offs of established heroes without a single original concept between them. Mutation especially should be random. These also don't appear to be super-wealthy or super-genius kids that could replicate those powers via technology either. At best Gimmick is good at sewing together costumes.

Best explanation that comes to me here that satisfies the above is that these aren't natural born mutants. Sinister made these. There was an earlier issue where he was complaining about being "banned" from making clones by Xavier, but intended to use a loophole to make "something new" that didn't fit that criteria.

Sinister has everybody's genetic material, so making new mutants with powers similar (but not exactly the same) as the original would fit that criteria. We know that in Life 9 he ends up making several different generations of Chimeras doing exactly this- these kids could be "proto-chimeras" or generation 1 chimeras that would be the first step in that. IF Sinister was making new mutants that way to get around his cloning loophole, he wouldn't be doing it on Krakoa, that's the easiest way to get caught. He'd establish a lab "somewhere else" and monitor them remotely.

This would explain why they don't show up via cerebro- Sinister is a powerful TP in his own right and well aware of what Cerebro is and wouldn't want Charles and company coming across his experiments before he was done with them. Designing these kids so that Cerebro doesn't detect them wouldn't be that hard.

These kids being "artificial" mutants might be what is causing the gates to freak out. The gates may be reading them as "something odd" that's neither mutant nor human and causing a reaction. Sinister might also not want them running through gates either for the same reason he wouldn't want them to be detectable via cerebro.
 
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Deleted member 4461

User Requested Account Deletion
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,010
Could be a lot of things, honestly. Could be human, could be fake mutants as y'all have said...

But I was thinking they could also be yet another evolution.

But then, I also don't know if it's at all related to Kate's issue. When she couldn't get into the gates, she slammed right into them. These kids pass through.
 

Mr. Poolman

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
6,974
Or they could be depowered mutants.

But they aren't mutants NOW, the lack of Cerebro spikes is enough evidence.
 

Sagroth

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,826
I don't think so.

There was a whole lot of "nothing" here for a red issue. I'm inclined to think that there isn't "nothing" happening but some significant things that might not be obvious.

regarding the gate- it's not exactly clear to me what happened, but it looked like either they or the gate "freaked out" when they touched it. Humans just pass right through the gates without incident, so I don't think these kids are human.

We see also that Cerebro can't detect these kids at all...which is very strange. Speculation is that one of them is a TP and might be shielding them from cerebro, but "marvel guy" doesn't appear to be anywhere near powerful enough to do that, let alone experienced enough to shield himself that way from tech he knows nothing about.

And finally- these mutant kids all seem to have powers of mutants that are already established. Not a single one seems to be an original concept...and one of them seems to have more than one ability, which isn't typical.

"Cherub" has wings that look a LOT like Warren Worthington when he was in his "death" phase when they're active, but appears to have sonic powers like Banshee on top of that.

"Gimmick" is charging and exploding things like Gambit does.

"Marvel Guy" is a telepath obviously meant to be a callback to Jean.

"Cyclops Lass" has cyclops' optic blasts, but controllable and at a lower power level.

"Daycrawler" can teleport like nightcrawler does, and has his toes and tail....sometimes?

I...can't think of the last time I saw a team of people pop up that were ALL obvious rip offs of established heroes without a single original concept between them. Mutation especially should be random. These also don't appear to be super-wealthy or super-genius kids that could replicate those powers via technology either. At best Gimmick is good at sewing together costumes.

Best explanation that comes to me here that satisfies the above is that these aren't natural born mutants. Sinister made these. There was an earlier issue where he was complaining about being "banned" from making clones by Xavier, but intended to use a loophole to make "something new" that didn't fit that criteria.

Sinister has everybody's genetic material, so making new mutants with powers similar (but not exactly the same) as the original would fit that criteria. We know that in Life 9 he ends up making several different generations of Chimeras doing exactly this- these kids could be "proto-chimeras" or generation 1 chimeras that would be the first step in that. IF Sinister was making new mutants that way to get around his cloning loophole, he wouldn't be doing it on Krakoa, that's the easiest way to get caught. He'd establish a lab "somewhere else" and monitor them remotely.

This would explain why they don't show up via cerebro- Sinister is a powerful TP in his own right and well aware of what Cerebro is and wouldn't want Charles and company coming across his experiments before he was done with them. Designing these kids so that Cerebro doesn't detect them wouldn't be that hard.

These kids being "artificial" mutants might be what is causing the gates to freak out. The gates may be reading them as "something odd" that's neither mutant nor human and causing a reaction. Sinister might also not want them running through gates either for the same reason he wouldn't want them to be detectable via cerebro.

Them being proto-Chimeras is a theory I proposed a little while back as well. I think it still holds up in light of the first issue's events.
 

Deleted member 4461

User Requested Account Deletion
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Oct 25, 2017
8,010
Also, names in order from least imaginative to most imaginative:

- Cyclops Lass (you just added lass)
- Marvel Guy (you changed girl to guy)
- Daycrawler (night to day)
- Cherub (okay, this is fun, an angel)
- Gimmick (this is cool - a trick vs a risk)

But - this could also be related to the experiments of that group whose name I forget. The one that successfully transferred Domino's powers.
 

Manmademan

Election Thread Watcher
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Aug 6, 2018
15,985
Could be a lot of things, honestly. Could be human, could be fake mutants as y'all have said...

But I was thinking they could also be yet another evolution.

But then, I also don't know if it's at all related to Kate's issue. When she couldn't get into the gates, she slammed right into them. These kids pass through.

they didn't pass through. "Something" happened when they made the attempt, but they never actually got as far as going through the gate. The end of the book has them still on the pier (not in Krakoa) and turning home to try again another day.


Also, names in order from least imaginative to most imaginative:

- Cyclops Lass (you just added lass)
- Marvel Guy (you changed girl to guy)
- Daycrawler (night to day)
- Cherub (okay, this is fun, an angel)
- Gimmick (this is cool - a trick vs a risk)

But - this could also be related to the experiments of that group whose name I forget. The one that successfully transferred Domino's powers.

Nah. That group literally took pieces of Domino and grafted them onto humans surgically. There's no evidence the kids went through anything that horrific, and the group would have needed the bodies of Cyclops, Jean, Nightcrawler, etc to accomplish this in the first place.

There IS evidence they have done something similar with the dead body of Quentin Quire though, and that story is playing out in X-force right now.

Them being proto-Chimeras is a theory I proposed a little while back as well. I think it still holds up in light of the first issue's events.

That's the train I'm on. Again, this is a "red issue" so is supposed to be extremely significant. None of the other explanations would really fall into that category.
 

Deleted member 4461

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8,010
they didn't pass through. "Something" happened when they made the attempt, but they never actually got as far as going through the gate. The end of the book has them still on the pier (not in Krakoa) and turning home to try again another day.




Nah. That group literally took pieces of Domino and grafted them onto humans surgically. There's no evidence the kids went through anything that horrific, and the group would have needed the bodies of Cyclops, Jean, Nightcrawler, etc to accomplish this in the first place.

There IS evidence they have done something similar with the dead body of Quentin Quire though, and that story is playing out in X-force right now.

For the first part - they did pass through somehow. The water is behind them when they're in front of the gate, and whatever happens to them when they try, they end up with the water behind the gate.

EDIT: That is, they pass through like a human would, so we're clear

For the second, yeah, I'm saying that it could have been done some other way - though I get that could be a stretch. I doubt they went through anything horrific for it to happen, but I figured something related.

I'm currently doubting Sinister, but - it could be. They're def somewhat related to chimeras regardless of the explanation, though. That I 100% agree on.
 

Manmademan

Election Thread Watcher
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Aug 6, 2018
15,985
For the first part - they did pass through somehow. The water is behind them when they're in front of the gate, and whatever happens to them when they try, they end up with the water behind the gate.

EDIT: That is, they pass through like a human would, so we're clear

maybe I should clarify- They attempted to pass the gate, there was a "reaction" but not one that would allow them transit to krakoa. I don't think that huge splash page of the fractured mirror with the reaction shots was meant to imply they all just "passed through" the gate.

I'm also thinking that this isn't the first time that's happened to them, which explains why they blew off the X-men's offer to go to Krakoa the first time.
 

Deleted member 4461

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maybe I should clarify- They attempted to pass the gate, there was a "reaction" but not one that would allow them transit to krakoa. I don't think that huge splash page of the fractured mirror with the reaction shots was meant to imply they all just "passed through" the gate.

I'm also thinking that this isn't the first time that's happened to them, which explains why they blew off the X-men's offer to go to Krakoa the first time.

I thiiinkk we're saying the same thing!

But yeah, def not the first time.

I'll say that - the worst part about this being a red issue is that we know we're not going to get the explanation for a bit. Maybe we get another red issue in a couple months, but I'm not confident.
 

Manmademan

Election Thread Watcher
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Aug 6, 2018
15,985
I thiiinkk we're saying the same thing!

Kinda. I'm rejecting the premise that they're "human" (or inhuman, deviant, whatever) because those just walk through the gates with no fanfare, no reaction.

These kids attempted to go through the gate- there was some strange reaction that was clearly not comfortable- but it didn't transport them to Krakoa. It's definitely not the first time this happened, the "well, that sucked" from Marvel Guy early in the issue seems to be pretty clear in context that they knew they wouldn't pass through the gate and hated having to lie to their heroes.

I think if there was "no reaction at all" They would have accepted they weren't mutants and simply embraced being inhumans or something. The strange reaction they're getting from the gates seems to be encouraging them to keep trying it instead.

I'll say that - the worst part about this being a red issue is that we know we're not going to get the explanation for a bit. Maybe we get another red issue in a couple months, but I'm not confident.

Agreed. This will likely play out over a longer period of time.

edit: reading the issue AGAIN I think it's pretty clear that "cole" on the basketball team has also been altered. He went from being bedridden in a hospital to coming back clearly with enhanced abilities and "not knowing his own strength." I wouldn't be surprised to find out the "doctor" in question that cleared him was Nathan Milbury.
 

deimosmasque

Ugly, Queer, Gender-Fluid, Drive-In Mutant, yes?
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Apr 22, 2018
14,159
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Wait. What if they are using those designer drugs Sublime made. The ones that gave you the powers of specific mutants but only for a limited time.
 

Manmademan

Election Thread Watcher
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Aug 6, 2018
15,985
Wait. What if they are using those designer drugs Sublime made. The ones that gave you the powers of specific mutants but only for a limited time.

With what money? the narrative makes it clear that this crew doesn't have any funds for that. They were haggling over the cost of concert tickets and their uniforms are home made.
 

TheMadTitan

Member
Oct 27, 2017
27,197
With what money? the narrative makes it clear that this crew doesn't have any funds for that. They were haggling over the cost of concert tickets and their uniforms are home made.
Mutant Growth Hormone is a street drug they sell on corners. Xperience was a designer drug they sold to rich people. If they are regular humans, they're using probably on MGH, not Xperience since it's cheap.

And given how SHIELD shit is all over the place right now, it wouldn't be improbable that some teenagers stumbled on to a defunct SHIELD storage facility that the government overlooked that had some MGH or Xperience lying around.
 
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deimosmasque

Ugly, Queer, Gender-Fluid, Drive-In Mutant, yes?
Moderator
Apr 22, 2018
14,159
Tampa, Fl
There is just something that screams to me their powers are artificial. The way Cyclops Lass talks about "knowing" she belongs with them. And the fact that they are basically making costumes and identities based off other mutants makes them come off like megafans.
 

Deleted member 4461

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Kinda. I'm rejecting the premise that they're "human" (or inhuman, deviant, whatever) because those just walk through the gates with no fanfare, no reaction.

These kids attempted to go through the gate- there was some strange reaction that was clearly not comfortable- but it didn't transport them to Krakoa. It's definitely not the first time this happened, the "well, that sucked" from Marvel Guy early in the issue seems to be pretty clear in context that they knew they wouldn't pass through the gate and hated having to lie to their heroes.

I think if there was "no reaction at all" They would have accepted they weren't mutants and simply embraced being inhumans or something. The strange reaction they're getting from the gates seems to be encouraging them to keep trying it instead.



Agreed. This will likely play out over a longer period of time.

edit: reading the issue AGAIN I think it's pretty clear that "cole" on the basketball team has also been altered. He went from being bedridden in a hospital to coming back clearly with enhanced abilities and "not knowing his own strength." I wouldn't be surprised to find out the "doctor" in question that cleared him was Nathan Milbury.

This makes sense!
 

Manmademan

Election Thread Watcher
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Aug 6, 2018
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Mutant Growth Hormone is a street drug they sell on corners. Xperience was a designer drug they sold to rich people. If they are regular humans, they're using probably on MGH, not Xperience since it's cheap.

And given how SHIELD shit is all over the place right now, it wouldn't be improbable that some teenagers stumbled on to a defunct SHIELD storage facility that the government overlooked that had some MGH or Xperience lying around.

The response to that I have here is- if these kids are just random teenagers who have been eating MGH or Xperience to give themselves powers as fake mutants- which we have seen before and is well established- then what here establishes itself as a "red issue?"
 

TheMadTitan

Member
Oct 27, 2017
27,197
The response to that I have here is- if these kids are just random teenagers who have been eating MGH or Xperience to give themselves powers as fake mutants- which we have seen before and is well established- then what here establishes itself as a "red issue?"
I don't know!

Someone a few pages ago brought up Mothervine; maybe they used that with an MGH primer to potentially start getting permanent powers rather than temporary boosts.

But it could also be as simple as mutants being invisible to Krakoan detection; that could be something weaponized against them in the future, especially if the reverse happens.
 

calder

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,635
So, is this mostly done now? I have not opened my Marvel Unlimited in months, may check this out. Hopefully Marvel has improved their playlists for multi-title storylines in the past couple of years
 

TheMadTitan

Member
Oct 27, 2017
27,197
So, is this mostly done now? I have not opened my Marvel Unlimited in months, may check this out. Hopefully Marvel has improved their playlists for multi-title storylines in the past couple of years
What do you mean mostly done?

It's not just a single storyline contained to a book or two; it's a linewide tonal shift with the intent on this being the status quo and the backbone of storyarcs for 10+ individual comic books.

We're probably not even 1% into the intent; we're almost two years into a move that's supposed to last ten years or longer.
 

ajido

Unshakable Resolve
Member
Dec 7, 2018
1,194
Maggot showed up and he had LINES! Eeeeeee! I hope he gets a permanent role in a book soon! (am I hoping for too much?)

Northstar sassing Charles had me cackling.
 

calder

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,635
What do you mean mostly done?

It's not just a single storyline contained to a book or two; it's a linewide tonal shift with the intent on this being the status quo and the backbone of storyarcs for 10+ individual comic books.

We're probably not even 1% into the intent; we're almost two years into a move that's supposed to last ten years or longer.

Well, not done yet lol.

I guess it sounds like it's well underway at least, which is as good a place as any to get started.
 

FloBoJo

Member
Nov 5, 2017
214
I'd say that for the early "Dawn of X" stories, the most relevant books are X-Force and Marauders. While Excalibur seems to be doing its own thing it does the set up for the X of Swords event.
Thanks for the feedback all. Hope to catch up soon.

Have they tied back into the far off future timelines much? Aside from the whole Krakoa setup that was the most intriguing part of the beginning (especially that Moira issue).
 
OP
OP
Dalek

Dalek

Member
Oct 25, 2017
38,899
I dropped X-Factor a few months ago so I can't weigh in. When they get a new artist I'll check it out again.
 

Sou Da

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
16,738
Nah. Not for me. But I'm glad others love it.
cmon maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan

EwJrGK9XIAMOT7J
 

Nakenorm

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
22,268
cmon maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan

EwJrGK9XIAMOT7J
Yeah love the art! Really don't get the complaints. Fell in love with the artist when he was working with Gail on Domino.
Just not that into the new outfits. Too baggy. Looks like something straight out of a music video from 2002. And Polaris halo thingy is stupid.