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Should there be a new OT for From the Ashes Era

  • Yes, and I will participate.

    Votes: 11 47.8%
  • Yes, but I probably won't participate.

    Votes: 6 26.1%
  • No. Keep the conversation here.

    Votes: 3 13.0%
  • No. I have no interest in From the Ashes.

    Votes: 2 8.7%
  • Let's just talk about it on the Comics Era OT.

    Votes: 1 4.3%

  • Total voters
    23
  • This poll will close: .

VeePs

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,359
I believe I asked this when Powers of X and etc were going on, but any idea what's up with Cable and the TO Virus?

If he's not infected shouldn't he be more powerful?

If he is infected isn't it best to let him "die" and bring him back free of the TO virus.
 
Oct 26, 2017
3,327
I believe I asked this when Powers of X and etc were going on, but any idea what's up with Cable and the TO Virus?

If he's not infected shouldn't he be more powerful?

If he is infected isn't it best to let him "die" and bring him back free of the TO virus.

He usually can't maintain his power unrestrained. Ideally, he'd have control over the virus to allow bursts of massive power.
 

Manmademan

Election Thread Watcher
Member
Aug 6, 2018
15,993
I believe I asked this when Powers of X and etc were going on, but any idea what's up with Cable and the TO Virus?

If he's not infected shouldn't he be more powerful?

If he is infected isn't it best to let him "die" and bring him back free of the TO virus.

He's still infected. Kid Cable hasn't died yet and his pre- Hox/Pox series made it VERY clear he still has a crazy aggressive infection that his powers hold in check.

As for "let him die and bring him back" there's three complications I can see.

1.) When Omega Red was killed by Beast (did you ever think you'd see that sentence? I didn't) there was a data page on simply "undoing" the damage to his body that caused it to required the carbonadium synthesizer, but it remained a moral issue. Krakoa is currently undecided how to approach things like that and isn't currently touching them.

2.) Every Nate Grey in every reality eventually has his body burn out because it can't handle the power going through it. Cable is different because the T/O infection tempers that- prevents it from happening. Remove the virus and he ends up the same way X-man did, in theory.

3.) The paradox argument. This is still the same Cable, just younger in his timeline. If you remove the infection he will either just have to reinfect himself at some point anyway to avoid screwing up past events, or risk wrecking the timeline as was the case with the O5 Xmen.
 

VeePs

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,359
2.) Every Nate Grey in every reality eventually has his body burn out because it can't handle the power going through it. Cable is different because the T/O infection tempers that- prevents it from happening. Remove the virus and he ends up the same way X-man did, in theory.

3.) The paradox argument. This is still the same Cable, just younger in his timeline. If you remove the infection he will either just have to reinfect himself at some point anyway to avoid screwing up past events, or risk wrecking the timeline as was the case with the O5 Xmen.

Both good points.
 

Naphu

Member
Apr 6, 2018
729
2.) Every Nate Grey in every reality eventually has his body burn out because it can't handle the power going through it. Cable is different because the T/O infection tempers that- prevents it from happening. Remove the virus and he ends up the same way X-man did, in theory.

3.) The paradox argument. This is still the same Cable, just younger in his timeline. If you remove the infection he will either just have to reinfect himself at some point anyway to avoid screwing up past events, or risk wrecking the timeline as was the case with the O5 Xmen.

2. Isn't that exactly what happens to Proteus? Just keep making him new bodies lol.

3. Is he planning on going back to his time and retracing his old life? Kind of seems like he plans on just living with his family and that that ship has sailed. Is this really a similar situation to the O5 X-Men and the Watcher is gonna pop out soon and scold Cyclops for raising him and ruining time like Beast?
 

deimosmasque

Ugly, Queer, Gender-Fluid, Drive-In Mutant, yes?
Moderator
Apr 22, 2018
14,177
Tampa, Fl
2. Isn't that exactly what happens to Proteus? Just keep making him new bodies lol.

3. Is he planning on going back to his time and retracing his old life? Kind of seems like he plans on just living with his family and that that ship has sailed. Is this really a similar situation to the O5 X-Men and the Watcher is gonna pop out soon and scold Cyclops for raising him and ruining time like Beast?
2. I understand but it's undermined by 3.

3. He is a younger version of Nathan Christopher Summers. He has time traveled to the Age of Marvels and killed his older self (supposedly)

Time Travel in the Marvel Universe used to work on multiverse theory with a few exceptions.

Now the multiverse theory is gone and we are working on the logic that you can erase your possible future.

So Cable, Prestige and Bishop need to tread lightly they could be accidently erased.

Cable specially had a lot of years left where he becomes the old man. He's been hiding alot for a long time, he needs to be careful
 

Manmademan

Election Thread Watcher
Member
Aug 6, 2018
15,993
2. Isn't that exactly what happens to Proteus? Just keep making him new bodies lol.

3. Is he planning on going back to his time and retracing his old life? Kind of seems like he plans on just living with his family and that that ship has sailed. Is this really a similar situation to the O5 X-Men and the Watcher is gonna pop out soon and scold Cyclops for raising him and ruining time like Beast?

2. No. Proteus doesn't have his "own" body, his powers cause him to body hop between host bodies, which he inevitably will burn out (with one exception). The X men just keep making host bodies for proteus to use. Nate Grey/Cable can't use host bodies that way and would eventually hit a state where his body just wasn't viable to bring back. There's also the possibility he goes unstable and kills everybody like Nate Grey did in Age of X-man.

3. Yes, this is exactly what he plans to do and has to do. Remember, Cable was *introduced* as an grizzled veteran that appeared to be in his 50s or 60s but had been time traveling so long his memories had broken down and degraded. Nobody knew how old he actually was, even him.

The current plan is just to integrate this current time period into his backstory. He will "eventually" become the Cable we know.
 

Naphu

Member
Apr 6, 2018
729
'Nathan would hit a state where his body just wouldn't be viable to bring back?' So if his body burns out due to his powers, resurrection protocols wouldn't work on him? Why? Does his mind not die or something and just transcend dimensions? If insanity is a foregone conclusion, I get that argument. Then he'd have to resort to suiciding/resetting, and that has some moral reservations.

I think I get what your saying about Cable's new time traveling backstory though. So the recon is that the old Cable we've seen since the character's introduction always grew up on Krakoa with Scott and Jean raising him and hanging out with Apocalypse, then at some undisclosed time left and went back to the future to battle Apocalypse who, despite hanging out with Nathan and having cool character development, still wages war 2000 years in the future raising Stryfe and all that? He just chose not to acknowledge any of that, or his memories degraded due to time traveling too much and forgot he had a pretty good childhood?

So Nathan has to avoid any big changes like getting a cool robot leg to match his arm or getting rid of the virus. Kind of sucks but I got to accept the time travel bullshit that comes with the territory I guess.
 
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Manmademan

Election Thread Watcher
Member
Aug 6, 2018
15,993
'Nathan would hit a state where his body just wouldn't be viable to bring back?' So if his body burns out due to his powers, resurrection protocols wouldn't work on him? Why? Does his mind not die or something and just transcend dimensions? If insanity is a foregone conclusion, I get that argument. Then he'd have to resort to suiciding/resetting, and that has some moral reservations.

I think I get what your saying about Cable's new time traveling backstory though. So the recon is that the old Cable we've seen since the character's introduction always grew up on Krakoa with Scott and Jean raising him and hanging out with Apocalypse, then at some undisclosed time left and went back to the future to battle Apocalypse who, despite hanging out with Nathan and having cool character development, still wages war 2000 years in the future raising Stryfe and all that? He just chose not to acknowledge any of that, or his memories degraded due to time traveling too much and forgot he had a pretty good childhood?

So Nathan has to avoid any big changes like getting a cool robot leg to match his arm or getting rid of the virus. Kind of sucks but I got to accept the time travel bullshit that comes with the territory I guess.

The current backstory with Nate Grey/Cable is that every Nate Grey throughout the multiverse will eventually hit a point where his powers grow past the ability of his body to handle it, and the body burns out/dies/self destructs and kills him. This isn't new, that was established a long time ago.

Resurrection protocols are useless in that case because you'd be bringing back a body on the verge of death every time you did it. NO host body would be able to handle his mind/powers once they got to that point. There's no way around that without removing his powers or nerfing them (which is what the virus does).

As for Cable, yes it's confusing. Best way to deal with this is to understand that while past events are currently fixed, future timelines are only "potential" futures and could be changed. As we've seen with HoX/PoX the future Cable was raised in currently doesn't come to pass- earth's mutants are wiped out by AI long before that. So "that" Apocalypse and the one that is/was on Krakoa aren't the same one. They have different histories.

Nate's ultimate mission as a time traveler is to prevent his future from coming to pass (it is a potential future, not a certain future.) if he does, those events don't happen and he ends up with the status of a "refugee" from a future that no longer exists, while his actions in the past of 616 remain canon. Rachel Grey, Bishop, and Spider-Man 2099 are all currently in this category to different degrees.

As for his memories it was established from his inception that his memories had degraded so badly he didn't remember entire decades of his life. The original concept for Cable after all was that he was Cannonball, not Nate Summers- but his memory was so unreliable from his age and time traveling that neither version of himself was aware of it. More on that here



Stryfe was a version of himself somewhere on the time line between those two points.
 
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Naphu

Member
Apr 6, 2018
729
Well if the future that kid Cable eventually returns to isn't the same one where he's training with the Askani to defeat Apocalypse, then don't we already have a time paradox causing Nathan to grow up in a completely different set of events becoming a completely different person than the one training all his life to defeat Apocalypse?

Also, why are you so sure that creating a brand new body just from genetic material, will create a body at the end of it's power's process already at it's limit instead of a body at the start of it's power's process far from it's limit? His mind is continuing where it left off but the body is new. Is his powers sending information to the catalogued DNA that's stored? If that were the case, If you cloned Nathan and had the clones live to different ages, once one of them burn out, will the other's bodies will receive a self-destruct order no matter how long they've actually lived/used their powers for? By that logic, hypothetically, if Cable got rid of the virus and his body eventually burnt out, at that exact time would Stryfe's body would burn out too. Why are you so sure of this?
 
For the moment I look at Cable like this, using Bishop as a comparison.

Bishop: he came from a potential future, and for the most part is living his life in a linear manner in the past. His future no longer exists, but the past knows no other version of him than the age he first returned as and then stayed as. His duty to preserve his own history is complete.

Cable: he came from a different potential future, and has visited various time periods at different ages. While his future is gone, the past knows him at different ages and in different personas. Therefore, he has a duty to time to eventually retrace those manifestations of himself in the past, in a form that doesn't significantly conflict with his past appearances.

He doesn't necessarily have to go through the same potential events of a potential future to square things. He could, frankly, show up in the past and lie about where he's been and what he's done. People who interacted with him in the past would never know the difference. Their actions wouldn't change as a result of Cable's altered history, and the timeline is preserved.

Technically, Kid Cable can do anything he wants from here on out including changing his cybernetics just so long as he runs an op at some point to fool the past into thinking nothing ever changed.
 

Manmademan

Election Thread Watcher
Member
Aug 6, 2018
15,993
For the moment I look at Cable like this, using Bishop as a comparison.

Bishop: he came from a potential future, and for the most part is living his life in a linear manner in the past. His future no longer exists, but the past knows no other version of him than the age he first returned as and then stayed as. His duty to preserve his own history is complete.

Cable: he came from a different potential future, and has visited various time periods at different ages. While his future is gone, the past knows him at different ages and in different personas. Therefore, he has a duty to time to eventually retrace those manifestations of himself in the past, in a form that doesn't significantly conflict with his past appearances.

He doesn't necessarily have to go through the same potential events of a potential future to square things. He could, frankly, show up in the past and lie about where he's been and what he's done. People who interacted with him in the past would never know the difference. Their actions wouldn't change as a result of Cable's altered history, and the timeline is preserved.

Technically, Kid Cable can do anything he wants from here on out including changing his cybernetics just so long as he runs an op at some point to fool the past into thinking nothing ever changed.

Lying wouldn't be necessary. Adult cable doesn't remember huge chunks of his past to begin with.

Getting rid of the infection is the problem, since without the infection he dies early as his powers burn out his body and kill him, and the infection itself is critical to past events where he interacted with the New Mutants and Xmen.

Nate doesn't really have cybernetics per se- by the time he's an adult the infection has converted most of his body to machine. We saw this when magneto dismantled him back in the day in Xforce #25 (1991).
 
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Naphu

Member
Apr 6, 2018
729
For the moment I look at Cable like this, using Bishop as a comparison.

Bishop: he came from a potential future, and for the most part is living his life in a linear manner in the past. His future no longer exists, but the past knows no other version of him than the age he first returned as and then stayed as. His duty to preserve his own history is complete.

Cable: he came from a different potential future, and has visited various time periods at different ages. While his future is gone, the past knows him at different ages and in different personas. Therefore, he has a duty to time to eventually retrace those manifestations of himself in the past, in a form that doesn't significantly conflict with his past appearances.

He doesn't necessarily have to go through the same potential events of a potential future to square things. He could, frankly, show up in the past and lie about where he's been and what he's done. People who interacted with him in the past would never know the difference. Their actions wouldn't change as a result of Cable's altered history, and the timeline is preserved.

Technically, Kid Cable can do anything he wants from here on out including changing his cybernetics just so long as he runs an op at some point to fool the past into thinking nothing ever changed.
Yeah, I guess I like that answer better. That Cable can grow and change however he wants without causing a time paradox, as long as he runs missions to fool the past into progressing however it would have gone.
 

Manmademan

Election Thread Watcher
Member
Aug 6, 2018
15,993
Yeah, I guess I like that answer better. That Cable can grow and change however he wants without causing a time paradox, as long as he runs missions to fool the past into progressing however it would have gone.

As mentioned this is technically true, but remaining infected is critical to doing that.
 

deimosmasque

Ugly, Queer, Gender-Fluid, Drive-In Mutant, yes?
Moderator
Apr 22, 2018
14,177
Tampa, Fl
Yeah X-Factor books are always a zag to X-Men's zig. At least when they start.

Original book was the O5 pretending to be mutant hunters to rescue mutants from oppressors.

Next run was a government sponsored mutant response team

Then the Maddox Detective Agency

Then Corporate investigation team

Now CSI and Missing Persons.
 

Kanhir

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,889
I was complaining about X of Swords taking over the line early into the run of a few new comics, but the new SWORD takes the cake by having a direct tie-in to the Knull event in only the second issue!

This event goes back to the start of the current Venom run and through Absolute Carnage into the present, right? Is it worth catching up on it?
 

The Adder

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,093
I fucking love Marauders. My two favorite things to read: rock solid character work and superhero real politick
 

Mr. Poolman

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
6,977
Marauders was amazing, and Callisto has never looked more amazing!
Her asking Storm to take her to the Crucible was poetic!
 

Manmademan

Election Thread Watcher
Member
Aug 6, 2018
15,993
I was complaining about X of Swords taking over the line early into the run of a few new comics, but the new SWORD takes the cake by having a direct tie-in to the Knull event in only the second issue!

This event goes back to the start of the current Venom run and through Absolute Carnage into the present, right? Is it worth catching up on it?

I'm a pretty big fan of most of the marvel stuff and read nearly everything.

I really, REALLY hate this Knull shit.

Edit: Marauders is worth it for the Masque/Fenris panel alone
 

Harpoon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,573
The King in Black tie-in actually isn't bothering me too much, since it's basically just another alien invasion that serves as a way for SWORD to show their stuff.

I was kind of hoping Mentallo would be the resident leader of the telepath division, and I'm loving how Ewing's writing him. Might be my new favourite character on the team.
 

Manmademan

Election Thread Watcher
Member
Aug 6, 2018
15,993
The King in Black tie-in actually isn't bothering me too much, since it's basically just another alien invasion that serves as a way for SWORD to show their stuff.

I was kind of hoping Mentallo would be the resident leader of the telepath division, and I'm loving how Ewing's writing him. Might be my new favourite character on the team.

Mentallo has always been sort of a scrub tier telepath though. You couldn't throw a brick on Krakoa without hitting a dozen TPs better than he is.

I like the explanation as to why/how brand is using him. It makes perfect sense in-universe here.
 

holtz

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
1,060
Sword is just a beautiful comic. Great writing and amazing visuals. The Knull shit didn't even bother me, it's that good.
 

Manmademan

Election Thread Watcher
Member
Aug 6, 2018
15,993
Sword is just a beautiful comic. Great writing and amazing visuals. The Knull shit didn't even bother me, it's that good.

Wiz Kid just casually dismissing the Knull Dragon with a ship mounted cannon and nobody else even acknowledging they were present kind of seemed like a wink-and-a-nod to readers that the threat (and the event, by proxy) was kind of bullshit given the firepower that SHOULD have been brought to bear against Knull and crew immediately.

Agree that SWORD is putting in that work though. Everything i want to see in a comic right now, none of the stuff (sans Knull) that I don't.
 
Oct 25, 2017
20,209
Simon Spurrier and Bob Quinn are doing the mutant religion book: Way of X! Sounds like the team is Nightcrawler, Blink, Pixie, Loa, DJ, and Dr. Nemesis.

FDTIiG4.jpg


Z4Xj4a4.jpg

XOV6MWd.jpg

This looks great
 

Harpoon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,573
They're actually (partially) doing it! Fans get to vote for the last member of the new X-Men team starting tomorrow!

www.marvel.com

X-Men Vote | Elections | Krakoa | Marvel

Join the citizens of Krakoa in the annual election of the X-Men! Marvel's fan vote will be 100% responsible for determining the final member of this team, so choose wisely, as your choice will have an everlasting effect on the future of the X-Men and the world at large.

Esqzc7kXUAEkp8C


I'm currently leaning towards Marrow, Forge, or Tempo myself.
 

JDazzle

Member
Nov 6, 2017
598
Marrow has always been the most conflicted character, imo. I'd love to see how she's changed, I'd it all... She has my vote
 

jon bones

Member
Oct 25, 2017
25,998
NYC
yeah, cannonball should not be an x-man! he's a space dad and space dads should stay in space being dads.

i think banshee is my pick, but i would love to see marrow again
 

JDazzle

Member
Nov 6, 2017
598
Please consider that EVERYONE else on that list has already been given a spotlight since HoXPoX EXCEPT Marrow.

Give Marrow a chance!
 

Deleted member 4461

User Requested Account Deletion
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,010
They're actually (partially) doing it! Fans get to vote for the last member of the new X-Men team starting tomorrow!

www.marvel.com

X-Men Vote | Elections | Krakoa | Marvel

Join the citizens of Krakoa in the annual election of the X-Men! Marvel's fan vote will be 100% responsible for determining the final member of this team, so choose wisely, as your choice will have an everlasting effect on the future of the X-Men and the world at large.

Esqzc7kXUAEkp8C


I'm currently leaning towards Marrow, Forge, or Tempo myself.

Hm. Polaris for me; I like seeing her relationship with Mags explored.

And X-Factor is already meh for me
 

Manmademan

Election Thread Watcher
Member
Aug 6, 2018
15,993
Tempo is the one that makes the most sense. Has the most interesting powerset of those present, makes a great support character for whoever the rest of the team is, and most importantly is sort of a blank slate so the writer has a lot of flexibility in how she'll interact with the team.

Everyone else here is VERY well defined in comparison, may not be a good thing. The less I have to be reminded of the time Strong Guy went to hell or Cannonball's baby the happier I am.
 

SilkySm00th

Member
Oct 31, 2017
4,801
When did Forge stop being an Xman? Or was he always just like a friend of theirs or what not?

That's mah boy, right there. Guy could be a madman if he wanted to.
 

Manmademan

Election Thread Watcher
Member
Aug 6, 2018
15,993
When did Forge stop being an Xman? Or was he always just like a friend of theirs or what not?

That's mah boy, right there. Guy could be a madman if he wanted to.

He was working for the government or something prior to House of X but has been a consistent staple of X-force since that book's debut.

There's not really a reason to have him here. Polaris is in the same boat, she's a core member of X-factor and shows up every issue of.

Cannonball and Sunspot are a weird call also- you wouldn't really want one without the other, and Sam has a wife on the Imperial Guard and kid in Shi'ar space he's kind of attached to. Feels like his X-men days are behind him.
 

Mazzo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,419
Brazil
I wish they milked some campaign stories/content from this, maybe call in some youtubers to do bios of each candidate...

Anyway I think I like Polaris the most. I like to see Armor's power in action tho...
 

Sou Da

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
16,738
Williams said that Polaris won't be on Xfactor if she wins the vote here, please fucking don't vote for her. It's dumb as shit that she's even an option