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The Krakoa Era of X-Men |OT| Mutant Massacre (Open Spoilers after issues drop)

Should there be a new OT for From the Ashes Era

  • Yes, and I will participate.

    Votes: 11 47.8%

  • Yes, but I probably won't participate.

    Votes: 6 26.1%

  • No. Keep the conversation here.

    Votes: 3 13.0%

  • No. I have no interest in From the Ashes.

    Votes: 2 8.7%

  • Let's just talk about it on the Comics Era OT.

    Votes: 1 4.3%
  • Total voters
    23
  • This poll will close: .
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deimosmasque

deimosmasque

Ugly, Queer, Gender-Fluid, Drive-In Mutant, yes?
Moderator
Apr 22, 2018
14,165
Tampa, Fl
Jinfash said:
I just finished reading X-Force. I've only been reading X-comics since HoX/PoX, then went back and read some arcs from the last 20 years, but for the life of me I still don't understand what's going on with Beast. What the fuck is going on with him? When did this start? I always thought he's the genius good guy who would inadvertently cause people around him harm, in a FF Reed kind of way. But the he's acting is more akin to alternate reality Reeds. What's even more jarring is how no one is questioning or standing up to him. At all. I guess until Wolverine's punch.

When writers don't bother explaining a character's morality or evolution of morality, they stop being fun to read. The notes they added aren't enough. I still don't understand his leaps.
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During Bendis's run he became obsessed with showing Cyclops how wrong he was. So he basically broke the timeline by bringing the original five X-Men to the present so they could see how bad Cyclops is now.

He did this why all of reality was starting to fall apart because of things like... People time traveling frivolous.

He then refused to send them back.

And that was the beginning of his fall. He was so upset that his lifelong friend had done things he didn't approve of that he began to lose his own morals trying to show Cyclops how wrong he was.
 
Jinfash

Jinfash

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,093
deimosmasque said:
During Bendis's run he became obsessed with showing Cyclops how wrong he was. So he basically broke the timeline by bringing the original five X-Men to the present so they could see how bad Cyclops is now.

He did this why all of reality was starting to fall apart because of things like... People time traveling frivolous.

He then refused to send them back.

And that was the beginning of his fall. He was so upset that his lifelong friend had done things he didn't approve of that he began to lose his own morals trying to show Cyclops how wrong he was.
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Wow. That's really shitty. I'm starting to understand why people were poo pooing the Bendis run of X-Men. I mean, it doesn't make sense. Was Bendis trying to evoke irony or was he earnestly trying to get the readers to empathize with Beast?
 
deimosmasque

deimosmasque

Ugly, Queer, Gender-Fluid, Drive-In Mutant, yes?
Moderator
Apr 22, 2018
14,165
Tampa, Fl
Jinfash said:
Wow. That's really shitty. I'm starting to understand why people were poo pooing the Bendis run of X-Men. I mean, it doesn't make sense. Was Bendis trying to evoke irony or was he earnestly trying to get the readers to empathize with Beast?
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It's late career Bendis. His methods are mysterious, his goals unknowable.
 
TheMadTitan

TheMadTitan

Member
Oct 27, 2017
27,208
Jinfash said:
Wow. That's really shitty. I'm starting to understand why people were poo pooing the Bendis run of X-Men. I mean, it doesn't make sense. Was Bendis trying to evoke irony or was he earnestly trying to get the readers to empathize with Beast?
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I's not just Bendis. Beast has had a downslide in morality since House Of M. Bendis just took what he saw and ran with it.


edit: So House of M was too far back lol, but it was definitely before Bendis.
 
deimosmasque

deimosmasque

Ugly, Queer, Gender-Fluid, Drive-In Mutant, yes?
Moderator
Apr 22, 2018
14,165
Tampa, Fl
TheMadTitan said:
I's not just Bendis. Beast has had a downslide in morality since House Of M. Bendis just took what he saw and ran with it.


edit: So House of M was too far back lol, but it was definitely before Bendis.
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Actually Bendis was the start. Before that Beast had actually left the team because of X-Force and other decisions Scott had made while on Utopia.

He was actually being portrayed as a man who had such moral integrity that he would compromise for nothing. Even during Endangered Species he worked with Dark Beast and realized what a bad idea it was to compromise for the greater good.

Bendis was the beginning of the end of moral Hank.
 
TheMadTitan

TheMadTitan

Member
Oct 27, 2017
27,208
deimosmasque said:
Actually Bendis was the start. Before that Beast had actually left the team because of X-Force and other decisions Scott had made while on Utopia.

He was actually being portrayed as a man who had such moral integrity that he would compromise for nothing. Even during Endangered Species he worked with Dark Beast and realized what a bad idea it was to compromise for the greater good.

Bendis was the beginning of the end of moral Hank.
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My bad, I forgot Bendis took on X-Men in 2012; I kept thinking he hopped on in 2015 for some reason.
 
Kanhir

Kanhir

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,888
Kyonashi said:
Catching up on all the X books before Swords starts - where does FF/X-Men fit in the chronology?
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It's canon but it doesn't rely on or trigger any story threads in the ongoing series.

As long as you've read HoX/PoX and are familiar with the premise of Marauders, you're set.
 
Kyonashi

Kyonashi

Member
Oct 24, 2017
862
UK
Dalek said:
Eh. You can read it anytime I guess. It takes place anytime between Marauders 2 and 6.
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Kanhir said:
It's canon but it doesn't rely on or trigger any story threads in the ongoing series.

As long as you've read HoX/PoX and are familiar with the premise of Marauders, you're set.
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Thanks! That fits with where I was gonna read it. I'm aware the response wasn't stellar but i'm willing to give all the books a shot so far. Got caught up in other things and ended up unintentionally dropping everything after the #1s so it's been fun to go back and binge to catch up.

Would say Excalibur and Marauders have been my favourite so far, but I did have a flick back through my HoXPoX hardcover and not sure anything's been quite on that level yet - man what a series that was. Most interested for the Moira miniseries that still seems to be percolating.
 
OP
OP
Dalek

Dalek

Member
Oct 25, 2017
38,901
Kyonashi said:
Thanks! That fits with where I was gonna read it. I'm aware the response wasn't stellar but i'm willing to give all the books a shot so far. Got caught up in other things and ended up unintentionally dropping everything after the #1s so it's been fun to go back and binge to catch up.

Would say Excalibur and Marauders have been my favourite so far, but I did have a flick back through my HoXPoX hardcover and not sure anything's been quite on that level yet - man what a series that was. Most interested for the Moira miniseries that still seems to be percolating.
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On the contrary I thought Xv4 was a great series.
 

Deleted member 34949

Account closed at user request
Banned
Nov 30, 2017
19,101
I thought X-Men/F4 was pretty alright. I loved the callbacks the the OG crossover story and the ending was some baller shit (and one of the best uses of the data pages to date)
 
Kyonashi

Kyonashi

Member
Oct 24, 2017
862
UK
Oh good to know! That's exactly why I prefer to give a series a shot myself, sometimes you can just get an inaccurate picture of the quality of a series from scuttlebutt online.
 
Harpoon

Harpoon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,572
Vita Ayala is taking over New Mutants, with Rod Reis still on art!

NXt3VOQl.jpg
 
Blader

Blader

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,605
The thing about Beast's characterization in X-Force is that it doesn't even really gel with how he comes off in his other appearances now. At least Xavier is consistently sketchy across all the books right now; Beast's ends-justify-the-means behavior seems mainly an X-Force thing, while he's otherwise typical Beast elsewhere. Maybe that's just a case of Hickman setting the tone for Xavier and everyone drawing on that, whereas no such thing was set for Beast.

Unrelated to all this -- when the hell are we going to see Moira again!?
 
Mr. Poolman

Mr. Poolman

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
6,975
I know most people aren't into Heroclix, but there is a House of X set coming up on december, with many new faces and even a confirmed -A-
18eb573e-8ec9-4e32-abdb-96b9f40fcb89.jpg
 
Christian

Christian

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,636
Just popping in to say I have hype for Ayala's New Mutants? And that also explains why Ed Brisson was never in those X-Men-line Zoom meeting pictures that Jordan White and folks posted on Twitter all through the pandemic.
 
Sou Da

Sou Da

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
16,738
Aizō said:
Um, excuse me. Actually, her hero name is Scout.
Please ignore Tamaki's change and let her be Honey Badger again :(
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My theory for that change is that Tamaki didn't think a character's name being tied to a meme was a good idea but honestly the name works well on it's own regardless. Pops a lot more than 'Scout' too.
 
Khanimus

Khanimus

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
40,161
Greater Vancouver
Jinfash said:
I just finished reading X-Force. I've only been reading X-comics since HoX/PoX, then went back and read some arcs from the last 20 years, but for the life of me I still don't understand what's going on with Beast. What the fuck is going on with him? When did this start? I always thought he's the genius good guy who would inadvertently cause people around him harm, in a FF Reed kind of way. But the he's acting is more akin to alternate reality Reeds. What's even more jarring is how no one is questioning or standing up to him. At all. I guess until Wolverine's punch.

When writers don't bother explaining a character's morality or evolution of morality, they stop being fun to read. The notes they added aren't enough. I still don't understand his leaps.
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Which X-Force? Doesn't Uncanny X-Force deal with the shitty Dark Beast from Age of Apocalypse?
 
Pendragon_1095

Pendragon_1095

Member
May 9, 2019
850
Jinfash said:
I just finished reading X-Force. I've only been reading X-comics since HoX/PoX, then went back and read some arcs from the last 20 years, but for the life of me I still don't understand what's going on with Beast. What the fuck is going on with him? When did this start? I always thought he's the genius good guy who would inadvertently cause people around him harm, in a FF Reed kind of way. But the he's acting is more akin to alternate reality Reeds. What's even more jarring is how no one is questioning or standing up to him. At all. I guess until Wolverine's punch.

When writers don't bother explaining a character's morality or evolution of morality, they stop being fun to read. The notes they added aren't enough. I still don't understand his leaps.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Beast has been acting like this arguably since Morrison's run or since the introduction of Dark Beast. Morrison didn't really write him like how he is now but many would point fingers at that run. And it just kept getting worse and worse. I hate it honestly. Writers are going too much out their way to make him "evil" or troublesome. Bendis was the main factor and other writers were no better. I believe he also destroyed alternate Earths or something like that.
 
Memento Mori

Memento Mori

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,863
Pendragon_1095 said:
Beast has been acting like this arguably since Morrison's run or since the introduction of Dark Beast. Morrison didn't really write him like how he is now but many would point fingers at that run. And it just kept getting worse and worse. I hate it honestly. Writers are going too much out their way to make him "evil" or troublesome. Bendis was the main factor and other writers were no better. I believe he also destroyed alternate Earths or something like that.
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It wasn't Bendis, Bendis is just responsible for the hilarious panel of the Watcher shaming him. It started with Ellis' Astonishing run where Beast destroys an entire parallel Earth. He gets PTSD not long after when he's tortured by Osborn and this begins his descent.
 
blanton

blanton

alt account
Banned
Jul 28, 2020
1,576
All of the backstory with Arakko is a bit of a slog. I hope X of Swords moves at a better pace.

Now we have another character named Genesis? I feel like that could have been thought out more.
 
Mr. Poolman

Mr. Poolman

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
6,975
Today's reads:

Excalibur #12: Ohhh someone remembered the Externals (is Cannonball still one? I don't remember). This was very very interesting! Candra was never a favorite of mine, but her with Gambit is something that has a history, and I like that. I expected an ending with a cliffhanger, but alas, it was not. I guess Sword of X will stand on its own.

X-Men #12: Rockslide revelation was rather cool. Ohhhh that is tight editorial work, and yes, Excalibur MUST be read before this issue. Also, this is Hickman's weirdness at its best. LOVED this issue. Finally we know why "survival of the fittest" means so much to Apocalypse.

Still haven't read Big Size Storm.
 
holtz

holtz

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
1,060
I loved X-Men 12 today. So much lore building and all of it suspicious because Summoner seems completely untrustworthy.
 
BebopCola

BebopCola

Member
Jul 17, 2019
2,044
Summoner definitely threw some playful digs in at Apocalypse. That 300 year old kid has some stones to try and banter with his grandpa like that.
 
deimosmasque

deimosmasque

Ugly, Queer, Gender-Fluid, Drive-In Mutant, yes?
Moderator
Apr 22, 2018
14,165
Tampa, Fl
Loved Excalibur this week. Love the Externals. Do think it's interesting they are saying that those sacrifice can't even be brought back with the resurrection protocols.

That does imply that there is more than cloning going on when it comes to said protocols.
 
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