The Krakoa Era of X-Men |OT| Mutant Massacre (Open Spoilers after issues drop)

[Palette Swap]

I re-read all of Hoxpox and I'm still even more puzzled that we haven't seen Moira at all since.

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In that long podcast interview I posted a few pages back, Hickman basically says he had to use her to set everything up and put her back in the toy box for now, as she'll be used in the long run.
I guess it wouldn't hurt to see her every now and then, except if her absence itself is supposed to be meaningful.
My best guess would be that the fact she's a mutant and that everything hinges on her is a secret in-universe. Hell, now that I think about it, only Charles and Mags explicitly know about her. I assume the council should too, but I don't think that's ever been stated. This, in turn, adds more weight to the threat of Mystique knowing about her.

 

[TaleSpun]

I'm increasingly convinced she was just a MacGuffin to set up the series and now she's been benched for the foreseeable future, except to show up occasionally to give warnings from previous lives and complain about precogs.

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I highly doubt that honestly. Hickman wrote F4 for years, than he got Avengers and did the same, and when he finally got to Secret Wars after that, it turned out that the whole story was always about the clash of egos and ideals of Reed and Doom, right down to the very last page.

I'm 100% confident he's writing about Moira here, even if that isn't so obvious right now.

 

[The Namekian]

The Precog ban still feels more like Moira having trauma from her earlier life. Like all those failures and did she never reach out to precogs for help? Wouldn't their powers be essential for this attempt at a perfect run?

I still think there is a endgame here that is "evil" and Moira is trying to hide it from everyone.

 

[Kanhir]

The Precog ban still feels more like Moira having trauma from her earlier life. Like all those failures and did she never reach out to precogs for help? Wouldn't their powers be essential for this attempt at a perfect run?

I still think there is a endgame here that is "evil" and Moira is trying to hide it from everyone.

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I think at this point she sees this life as her last chance to succeed, so she doesn't want a precog coming in like "nah, actually you're doomed to failure, soz".

 

[Mistouze]

I think the ban of precogs is a mix of her ensuring she's not discovered (because she could be killed, thus resetting the timeline) and probably something we are not aware of yet and that will make us shit bricks when it's revealed.

 

[Huncho]

This week chapter with the mighty hero Magneto was puuurfect !

 

[Memento Mori]

I guess corona changed the contents of Dawn of X #7 as it's no longer being assembled in release date order of the issues. Every site is claiming there are only four issues in Volume 7 but my copy has six - two of which are Excalibur and there isn't any X-Force.

 

[blast0rama]

Also, I think that's only part of Wolverine #1 in there.

Either way, I really loved the issues of New Mutants and X-Men in there.

 

[Memento Mori]

Even Marvel.com doesn't know what's in Dawn of X Volume 7.

 

[Digital Dinosaur]

A theory I've read relating to the precog ban goes that Moira isn't just trying to avoid events of past timelines; she's trying to bonsai prune the current one by picking specific events she thinks are valuable and allowing them to happen. (Like mutant hybrids being developed - up to a certain stage.)

Precogs could fuck that up; as they are also pruning the tree of possibilities without even realizing they're interfering with Moira's efforts.

 

[AquaRegia]

I'm six months behind on MU, but I kinda want Mystique to start the collapse simply by going up to Cyclops and asking "Hey whatever happened to that Blindfold girl?"

 

[TaleSpun]

A theory I've read relating to the precog ban goes that Moira isn't just trying to avoid events of past timelines; she's trying to bonsai prune the current one by picking specific events she thinks are valuable and allowing them to happen. (Like mutant hybrids being developed - up to a certain stage.)

Precogs could fuck that up; as they are also pruning the tree of possibilities without even realizing they're interfering with Moira's efforts.

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Right, that's the whole thing with meddling with the future. Precog mutants preventing something "bad" could and would end up locking the species out of important steps for growth and security. And Moira has perfect recall, so she knows exactly what's worth sacrificing for/putting up with to hit those pivotal points.

I'm six months behind on MU, but I kinda want Mystique to start the collapse simply by going up to Cyclops and asking "Hey whatever happened to that Blindfold girl?"

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Heh. Honestly, they have the perfect cover as is. Resurrections are hugely backed up, combat operatives take priority, precognition isn't even a common mutation, and Mystique has no proof of any foul play and a terrible reputation besides. For now her only option at all is to play ball.

 

[TheBlackMarvel]

A theory I've read relating to the precog ban goes that Moira isn't just trying to avoid events of past timelines; she's trying to bonsai prune the current one by picking specific events she thinks are valuable and allowing them to happen. (Like mutant hybrids being developed - up to a certain stage.)

Precogs could fuck that up; as they are also pruning the tree of possibilities without even realizing they're interfering with Moira's efforts.

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The precog ban isn't to avoid events of past timelines though. It's partly to protect Moira, as she's Krakoa's greatest weak point and partly to obscure the truth that only she, Charles and Eric know. They always lose.

 

[Jinfash]

What was the consensus on Avengers vs. X-Men? For some reason I was under the impression that every "X-Men crossover event for the past 10 years was terrible until HoX/PoX." Mainly because "Marvel didn't want to invest in elevating the mutant's profiles while they're a Fox property."

Anyhow, I recently got collected edition and I can't remember the last time I've burned through a comic this fast. It's so entertaining and has some decent turns and twists.

What my initial assumption about the consensus incorrect? Was it overall favored or is it just me?

 

[bawjaws]

For some reason I was under the impression that every "X-Men crossover event for the past 10 years was terrible until HoX/PoX."

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10 years is being generous there.

 

[Manmademan]

What was the consensus on Avengers vs. X-Men? For some reason I was under the impression that every "X-Men crossover event for the past 10 years was terrible until HoX/PoX." Mainly because "Marvel didn't want to invest in elevating the mutant's profiles while they're a Fox property."

Anyhow, I recently got collected edition and I can't remember the last time I've burned through a comic this fast. It's so entertaining and has some decent turns and twists.

What my initial assumption about the consensus incorrect? Was it overall favored or is it just me?

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AVX was fine, and the assertion that marvel wouldnt do anything with mutants in print was demonstrably false.

The Bendis run on Uncanny which followed it up is also a very good read.

 

[deimosmasque]

AVX was fine, and the assertion that marvel wouldnt do anything with mutants in print was demonstably false.

The Bendis run on Uncanny which followed it up is also a very good read.

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Honestly his run is what made me take a break from reading comics after 30 years of consistent readership, I even made it though the dark ages.

But Bendis mis characterized nearly every character in his book and seemed to have a personal vendetta again Emma Frost.

As for AvX it was... Okay. It was a good idea with a flawed execution that kept it from being amazing.

 

[Jinfash]

AVX was fine, and the assertion that marvel wouldnt do anything with mutants in print was demonstrably false.

The Bendis run on Uncanny which followed it up is also a very good read.

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At this rate I'll finish the event this afternoon, and reading more good X-Men stories sounds like a good follow-up. I'll add that to my reading list.

Honestly his run is what made me take a break from reading comics after 30 years of consistent readership, I even made it though the dark ages.

But Bendis mis characterized nearly every character in his book and seemed to have a personal vendetta again Emma Frost.

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Or perhaps not lol.

 

[deimosmasque]

It's a polarizing run. Some people love it and others like me hate it.

I will say I starts really good but after the Battle of the Atom crossover event I think it got progressively worse and sometime even mean spirited to the fans of the X-Men books.

 

[Jinfash]

I'll admit that part of the reason I'm enjoying is because it's a classic, easy-to-follow, focused romp. The kind that my younger self would obsess over. I haven't critically thought about characterizations or dialog. And since I'm not familiar with what comes after, I have no idea if it changed the status quo or not.

 

[fiendcode]

Bendis was rough. Everyone basically having the same voice, indecipherable motivations, glacial progression, I would definitely not recommend it. Hickman termed this era the lost decade for a reason.

It was especially aggravating as Gillen was pretty much pushed out to make way for him too and doing a lot more interesting stuff with most of the same characters.

 

[deimosmasque]

Bendis was rough. Everyone basically having the same voice, indecipherable motivations, glacial progression, I would definitely not recommend it. Hickman termed this era the lost decade for a reason.

It was especially aggravating as Gillen was pretty much pushed out to make way for him too and doing a lot more interesting stuff with most of the same characters.

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Gillen's run has some rough spots too. But he did very much understand the characters and motivations giving everyone a unique voice.

 

[Dalek]

The Bendis run is weird. I agree no one has a distinct voice-it's all "Bendisspeak". It seems like it's going places and it all just kind of peters out.

He created Goldballs and Eva and all those other new X-Men that were admittedly pretty good. But it just seemed to go on forever when nothing happened.

 

[TheBlackMarvel]

Bendis had some good bits but also some AWFUL characterisation. To this day, I still don't understand *why* Eva was so mad at Cyclops after her time jump.

Also AvX was bad for the same reason all of these "hero vs hero" crossovers are bad, they try to make both sides have a point and fumble the execution every single time.

 

[Jinfash]

What was the most successful "Hero vs Hero" event in everyone's opinion?

 

[blanton]

Bendis had some good bits but also some AWFUL characterisation. To this day, I still don't understand *why* Eva was so mad at Cyclops after her time jump.

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The Bendis run was abominable. I feel like he stopped caring very early into the run, so much that he couldn't finish a single story arc by the time two crossover events had happened (Original Sin and then Axis). So many horrible executions of ideas:

• The broken powers
• Cyclops and crew as enemies of the state
• Eva's time travel
• The future X-men
• Xavier's unexplained marriage
• Iceman's forced outing
• Beast is an awful person because...?

The only decently executed idea was bringing the O5 to the present but it seemed to go nowhere fast and Bendis was basically mocked for it by Hickman in his Avengers run when he brought fake versions of the original Avengers to the "present."

 

[The Silver]

The endgame of Cyclops mutant revolution turning out to be a giant troll was hilarious. Oh Bendis.

 

[Jinfash]

So aside from the X-Men, which teams fared very well in the last decade? I want to continue catching up.

 

[Dalek]

So aside from the X-Men, which teams fared very well in the last decade? I want to continue catching up.

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Coincidentally-Hickman's Fantastic Four and Hickman's Avengers.

 

[TheBlackMarvel]

So aside from the X-Men, which teams fared very well in the last decade? I want to continue catching up.

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The Power Rangers. Seriously.

 

[OrigamiPirate]

Coincidentally-Hickman's Fantastic Four and Hickman's Avengers.

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I strongly second this suggestion. There is some amount of connective tissue between all of his Marvel work, including the X-Books, so you'll be more prepared for the X-Books' future as well, I suspect.

 

[Jinfash]

Hickman's Fantastic Four sounds like a good plan. I started reading it until the FF relaunch. As for the Avengers, I *think* I read his entire run after reading Secret Wars. I couldn't resist working my way backwards to understand the incursions.

 

[Mazzo]

I wonder if the mutants that appeared in the Legion tv show will ever appear in the comics (I know Legion and Farouk are old characters). I liked that show a lot.

 

[TheChuggernaut]

I haven't read the Bendis run of X-Men, but I've read every X-Men thing post-Secret Wars. Is it better or worse than the Uncanny X-Men run right before HoX/DoX. Because holy shit that run was terrible

 

[Astro Cat]

AvX is great. The Bendis run is awful aside from Battle of the Atom and Eva Bell.

its still waaay better then what came right before Hox/DoX though.

 

[Mr. Poolman]

Bendis run was so goddamn out of character for everybody. Nobody acted the way they should, heck compare it to Mike Carey's Age of X, that is an alternate universe, and yet, the characters are true to themselves.

 

[Harpoon]

I've been continuing to enjoy Hellions a lot, and I think it really is my favourite thing to come out of the Hickman era. Greycrow's been the surprise breakout character for me, and I'm actually excited to learn more about Nanny and Orphan-Maker's past.

 

[Jinfash]

Marauders, X-Factor, and Hellions are my favorites so far. New Mutants started strong with the space arc, but fizzled after that for me.

 

[fiendcode]

Apparently New Mutants is ending with #13.

If I had to rank the team books so far:

1. Hellions
2. Marauders
3. X-Men
4. X-Factor
5. X-Force
6. New Mutants
7. Excalibur
8. Fallen Angels

 

[TaleSpun]

I'm surprised y'all are so down on Excalibur. That book has so many ideas and the cast is good. I feel like X of Swords probably won't work for a lot of people lol

 

[OrigamiPirate]

I'm surprised y'all are so down on Excalibur. That book has so many ideas and the cast is good. I feel like X of Swords probably won't work for a lot of people lol

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Seconded. My husband and I get excited every Wednesday that includes a new Excalibur.

 

[fiendcode]

I'm surprised y'all are so down on Excalibur. That book has so many ideas and the cast is good. I feel like X of Swords probably won't work for a lot of people lol

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It just feels a bit all over so far. It's not bad though, I feel like the characterization is solid (even if Betsy's kinda boring now), the art's good, cast is fun, concepts are interesting. It's a good book, just not great. I do have some continuity issues with it but those could be handwaved if it was a stronger book honestly.

I'd say the only actual bad DOX book was Fallen Angels. And that started promising at least.

 

[Jinfash]

I have nothing very bad to say about Excalibur aside from my unfamiliarity with lore and characters of Otherworld. Everything feels foreign to me, and switching between it and other books can feel jarring at times.

 

[RecRoulette]

I'm surprised y'all are so down on Excalibur. That book has so many ideas and the cast is good. I feel like X of Swords probably won't work for a lot of people lol

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I need to catch up on it, I read the first volume (up to 6?) and thought it was fine, just never got around to picking it back up

 

[AquaRegia]

Speaking of the Bendis run, did they ever explain why the Cuckoos reverted personalities so quickly? One second they all have hair dye, they next they're pale and attacking Honeybadger. Did I miss something, or did editorial decide their individualism never happened?

 

[TaleSpun]

I have nothing very bad to say about Excalibur aside from my unfamiliarity with lore and characters of Otherworld. Everything feels foreign to me, and switching between it and other books can feel jarring at times.

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The foreign-ness of it is the strongest part for me. Otherworld and magic in the Marvel U obviously aren't new at all, but the book is exploring and mapping out how deeply that stuff is tied to mutants and that's really fresh.

 

[deimosmasque]

Speaking of the Bendis run, did they ever explain why the Cuckoos reverted personalities so quickly? One second they all have hair dye, they next they're pale and attacking Honeybadger. Did I miss something, or did editorial decide their individualism never happened?

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My guess is Sophie and Esme. They said in New X-Men that Sophie and then later Esme dominated the Hive Mind. With them back the budding personalities of the other three have been surpressed.

 

[TaleSpun]

It's OK, they're better as a hive anyway. Enjoying how much Hickman is using them.

It's also pretty ironic that Bendis of all people would try to make characters like that more unique lol

 

[Sou Da]

Beast is an awful person because...?

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That's just consistent writing at this point.

 

[blanton]

That's just consistent writing at this point.

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I mean, yes, but Bendis didn't really make it clear why The Watcher should show up and shame Hank.

Beast has been a fairweather ally and morally compromised since post-House of M but other than bringing the O5 to the present, what abominable thing did he do in Bendis' run?