Moira, Krakoa, The Five, resurrection. These things are going to be solidly in play for a few years and certainly longer if reception is positive. This whole book is table setting.
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Moira, Krakoa, The Five, resurrection. These things are going to be solidly in play for a few years and certainly longer if reception is positive. This whole book is table setting.
Well saves me money then. I won't be shitting on it anymore.
AvX was the Avengers vs. a couple dozen mutants.
Xavier currently has 100,000 and is adding 1000 more per day. There's no way to win that fight.
It's not really possible. there's too many unanswered questions that no one is sure how to approach, and we aren't entirely sure even WHEN large chunks of the plot are happening.
*sigh*....the reason Emma had no TP in Iceman's body is because....ICEMAN IS NOT A TELEPATH....the same reason in the Emma/Storm mind switch, Storm had telepathy and Emma had Storm's powers.
Conflating Ice form with Diamond form? If anyone's pulling from one's ass, it's you...especially since it's never shown if Emma ever returned to human form while in Bobby's mind...not shown...at all.
What is shown, is Xavier helping with the transfer of Jean's mind back to her own body...Xavier makes it a point that a mind not in sync with the body it occupies is less than ideal. The process is extremely delicate and requires Xavier's utmost skill and focus...eventually towards the end of it, the combining of Jean and Xavier's mind was enough to overload Forge's monitoring equipment and blow it up.
last time I'm addressing this, because it bores me and I'm onto other things.
you cannot use unrelated feats for characters that are decades out of date to make your argument, yet you keep doing so. The Emma/Storm mind switch isn't applicable because it's well over 30 years ago and Emma is demonstrably much, MUCH stronger than she was.
As for "Emma has no TP in iceman's body because Iceman isn't a telepath!" Well...Fantomex wasn't a telepath either, didn't seem to matter to Xavier. Sapphire Styx wasn't a telepath, didn't matter to Psylocke. Clearly that's not the barrier.
*we don't know* why emma's TP wasn't working properly, but her TP is the only way her mind could have possibly gotten transferred to bob in the first place. Why you keep ignoring this is a mystery, but you can't ignore it. "it was accidental" isn't relevant, clearly its in her powerset to do so, and the current emma is DEMONSTRABLY stronger than when she took over Iceman's body, as well as far stronger than when the Emma/Storm mind switch occurred.
You want to use professor X's limitations from 1982 to argue what he can and can't do in 2019? That would be an insane argument, yet it's essentially what you're doing here.
As I said, we don't know how she got back- but we CAN say how she got there, and that was on her own without mechanical assistance, even if it was panicked and accidental. There's no debating this point.
Once again, this is DECADES out of date. None of this is applicable to the current versions of either. We're in a continuity where Red Skull was able to simply stitch PIECES of Xavier's brain to himself and become the world's most powerful telepath overnight! Everything Xavier is saying in those panels is demonstrably inaccurate, since a completely untrained Red Skull was able to do virtually anything he wanted, with a planetary range. You want to talk about a mind "not being in sync" with the body it occupies, that's the biggest discrepancy you can point to- and yes, per Axis Xavier's mind was in there since "white Skull" reverted to Xavier when inverted.
Edit: an even more recent Example- Thanos simply mentally hijacking the body of Starfox upon his death until his own body could be restored. Thanos is known to be a powerful telepath, but he's not in Emma's class at all, let alone Xavier. You want to talk about Starfox and Thanos "needing to be in sync"? That argument will go BADLY. Especially since Thanos claimed it didn't need to be Starfox at all- he could have used literally anyone, anywhere- but chose an eternal out of personal pride. An eternal it should be noted- that is not a telepath.
This conversation is finished, pal.
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Well, the only "evidence" that those horrible futures are inevitable if not following Xavier comes from Xavier himself. I can see a lot of mutants disagreeing and trying their own stuff.
The problem here is:
1.) Xavier isn't known to be a flagrant liar on THAT level.
2.) There are a lot of very powerful TP's that would be able to determine falsehood even if he WAS. You might be able to pull the wool over the eyes of Wolverine or Toad, but mentally tricking Apocalypse? Selene? Mr. Sinister? Exodus? Even emma with the cuckoos backing her would see through it.
edit: and they could always read Moira's mind, if doubt still remained. Both of them passing that test would be next to impossible to fake.
I am not saying that Xavier is lying, or that he could fool Apocalypse and the other powerful telepaths, but I can see some other mutants (not telepaths) disagreeing that is the only way, even if backed up by Apocalypse/Sinester/etc.
I can't comprehend anyone being dumb enough to do this, honestly.
"Yes, I heard what Xavier said about multiple timelines all ending in disaster for the mutant race. And I heard every single telepath that read his mind agree he's telling the truth. And Yes, Apocalypse, Sinister, and Magneto have put aside a decade of emnity and decided to work together because of this. And yes, I know Xavier used his knowledge of the future to eliminate a mother mold no one had any idea was orbiting around the sun. And yes, Xavier is restoring to life 1,000 mutants a week and has granted total amnesty to 100,000 mutants on earth, even the evil and insane ones. And yes, by agreeing with him I am now immortal and can never be permanently killed if I don't want to be. But you know what? I'm going to call bullshit on it anyway. They can't tell Maggott what to do! I'm a lone wolf!"
There should still be people doing this. Just look at our reality and anti-vaxxers.
if you could telepathically insert information into the mind of an anti-vaxxer there wouldn't be any anti-vaxxers.
edit:
The resurrection stuff is DEFINITELY carrying through into the post HoXPoX books.
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You keep bringing up decades this and decades that....i'm not talking about 1991 to 2019...I'm comparing two incidences of mind transfer (Jean>Emma...Emma>Bobby) that happened in CLOSE PROXIMITY TO EACH OTHER (a few months in-universe), combined with Xavier's description of the delicacy of the process...to REASONABLY INFER to you are wrong about Emma transferring her own mind back in her body, by herself when by all that was shown, that was not the case.
No response neccessary
Two questions for you to think about:
1.) how did jean end up in emma's body in the first place? was it a delicate transfer? or did jean just hop into a body she assumed (incorrectly) was comatose, screwing up?
2.) how did emma end up in bobby's body? was it a "delicate transfer" or did emma simply jump in bob's body in a panic, hijacking it exactly as jean did to her?
I'm not even sure you know what you're arguing about anymore. Emma moved her mind into another body and took it over on her own. Maybe it's accidental, maybe not. But Xavier wasn't involved, machines weren't involved. That's all that needs to be established. "was it an accident" doesn't matter, "how did she undo it" doesn't matter, all that matters is the ability to move into a body that is not her own under her own power, which was done here.
That it took xavier a lot of effort to forcibly separate the minds of two comatose telepaths after jean screwed up doesn't matter. That's an entirely separate issue from that telepath moving out of the body of their own volition. And none of what he's saying is valid anymore since subsequent events have proved what he's saying is entirely false. Xavier was pulling off feats as onslaught and Red Skull as Red Onslaught that entirely trivialize everything he did up to that point. Xavier was either lying about how strong he was, or was afraid to explore it.
He had also been drastically retarding Jean's development intentionally to keep her from becoming too strong, too quickly. Teenage Jean became massively more powerful than 90s jean within a matter of DAYS of being separated from Xavier's influence. He's on panel claiming it's incredible for jean to have done what she did, when subsequent storylines showed definitively that such a feat should have been EXTREMELY easy for her!
No response necessary. I've moved on from the topic.
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Is this is truly the foundation and tone going forward, Hickman has just won Marvel a hardcore new X-men reader. I haven't been this enthralled by a run since preteen me read Death of Superman. I love how the concept of resurrection changes the type of stories that can be told. It was one of my favorite aspects of both the BSG reboot and of Altered Carbon. Can't wait to see where Hickman takes this.
Yes, but what is the point to point a gun towards a recently resurrected mutant?
When they said before release this would set up the next three decades of X books, we thought they were just taking the piss
Now we are getting changes and every week someone is guessing they'll be undone by the end of this series. NO! LOL
All of the December solicits are out. And yeah, anyone who was expecting everything Hickman has been introducing to be undone in the next three issues is going to be surprised.
X-MEN #3 & #4
NEW MUTANTS #3
NEW MUTANTS #4
FALLEN ANGELS #3 & #4
X-FORCE #3 & #4
EXCALIBUR #3 & #4
MARAUDERS #3 & #4
X-MEN #3 & #4
- JONATHAN HICKMAN (W) • LEINIL FRANCIS YU (A/C)
- ISSUE# 3 – MARVELS 20TH VARIANT COVER BY ALEX ROSS
- ISSUE #3 – VENOM ISLAND VARIANT COVER BY MIKE MCKONE
- ISSUE #4 – VENOM ISLAND VARIANT COVER BY BELEN ORTEGA
- EARTH'S MOST POWERFUL! CYCLOPS STORMS THE SAVAGE LAND!
- The most powerful heroes of the dominant species on the planet, the X-Men rise to protect the world against any threat. From a new foe in the Savage Land to an old nemesis' surprising return…
- 32 PGS. (EACH)/Rated T+ …$3.99 (EACH)
NEW MUTANTS #3
- ED BRISSON (W) • Flaviano (A)
- Cover by ROD REIS
- THE FUTURE COMES KNOCKING!
- While the original New Mutants are off in space, the rest of the youth of Krakoa begin to make the future they want to live in. First up - Armor's outreach party, seeking young mutants who have chosen not to come to Krakoa.
- 32 PGS./Rated T+ …$3.99
NEW MUTANTS #4
- JONATHAN HICKMAN (W) • ROD REIS (A/C)
- THE EXPLOSIVE RETURN OF CANNONBALL!
- The team has reached the Shi'ar Galaxy only to find the empire in turmoil! Deathbird returns and she won't let Bobby and Sam get in the way of what she wants!
- 32 PGS./Rated T+ …$3.99
FALLEN ANGELS #3 & #4
- BRYAN HILL (W) • SZYMON KUDRANSKI (A)
- Issue #3 – Cover by ASHLEY WITTER
- Issue #4 – Cover by DAVID NAKAYAMA
- APOTH APPROACHES! PSYLOCKE'S PAST THREATENS HER NEW TEAM!
- Psylocke's past continues to haunt her as she molds her companions into a fighting force… But can they take on the children of Apoth?
- 32 PGS.(EACH) /Rated T+ …$3.99 (EACH)
X-FORCE #3 & #4
- BENJAMIN PERCY (W) • JOSHUA CASSARA (A)
- Cover by DUSTIN WEAVER
- THE BEST DEFENSE…
- TARGET: ALL ENEMIES OF MUTANTKIND!
- First, the new team strikes back against the humans who took one of their own. Then, with its orders established, the new X-Force hits the ground running, taking on deadly threats targeting mutantkind's rightful place in the world…
- 32 PGS. (EACH)/Parental Advisory …$3.99 (EACH)
EXCALIBUR #3 & #4
- TINI HOWARD (W) • MARCUS TO (A)
- Cover by MAHMUD ASRAR
- ISSUE #3 – VENOM ISLAND VARIANT COVER BY KOI PHAM
- ISSUE #4 – VENOM ISLAND VARIANT COVER BY KAEL NGU
- THE GREEN EARTH TREMBLES!
- THE HARD TRUTH OF THE CAPTAINS BRITAIN!
- Captain Britain must face the truth about her brother and choose her path forward as MI-13 and the agents of the crown become aware of her ascension. As the lighthouse grows, Apocalypse and Rictor must master the earth beneath their feet.
- 32 PGS. (EACH)/Rated T+ …$3.99 (EACH)
MARAUDERS #3 & #4
- GERRY DUGGAN (W) • ISSUE #3 – MICHELE BANDINI (A)
- ISSUE #4 – Lucas Werneck (A)
- Covers by RUSSELL DAUTERMAN
- ISSUE 3: VARIANT COVER BY JEEHYUNG LEE
- SALT WATER & HELLFIRE! THE NEW BLACK BISHOP OF THE HELLFIRE CLUB!
- Sebastian Shaw recruits a new Black Bishop continuing with his machinations against the two Queens of the Hellfire Club! Meanwhile, Captain Kate and her Marauders wreak havoc on the high seas from the Atlantic to the Pacific in the name of the mutant cause!
- 32 PGS. (EACH)/Rated T+ …$3.99 (EACH)
So what happens if someone is thought dead resurrected but then they are found out to be alive? Also what happens to the souls of the mutants killed? Like the more I think about this stuff the more I want Hickman or another writer to touch on the topic of it.
Easiest preorder ever.
HOUSE OF X POWERS OF X HC
(W) Jonathan Hickman (A) Pepe Larraz, R. B. Silva (CA) Mark Brooks
Face the future – and fear the future – as superstar writer Jonathan Hickman (INFINITY, NEW AVENGERS, FANTASTIC FOUR) changes everything for the X-Men! In HOUSE OF X, Charles Xavier reveals his master plan for mutantkind – one that will bring mutants out of humankind's shadow and into the light once more! Meanwhile, POWERS OF X reveals mutantkind's secret history, changing the way you will look at every X-Men story before and after. But as Xavier sows the seeds of the past, the X-Men's future blossoms into trouble for all of mutantdom. Stories intertwine on an epic scale as Jonathan Hickman reshapes the X-Men's past, present and future! Collecting HOUSE OF X #1-6 and POWERS OF X #1-6.
Rated T+ In Shops: Dec 11, 2019 SRP: $60.00
All of the December solicits are out. And yeah, anyone who was expecting everything Hickman has been introducing to be undone in the next three issues is going to be surprised.
X-MEN #3 & #4
- JONATHAN HICKMAN (W) • LEINIL FRANCIS YU (A/C)
- ISSUE# 3 – MARVELS 20TH VARIANT COVER BY ALEX ROSS
- ISSUE #3 – VENOM ISLAND VARIANT COVER BY MIKE MCKONE
- ISSUE #4 – VENOM ISLAND VARIANT COVER BY BELEN ORTEGA
- EARTH'S MOST POWERFUL! CYCLOPS STORMS THE SAVAGE LAND!
- The most powerful heroes of the dominant species on the planet, the X-Men rise to protect the world against any threat. From a new foe in the Savage Land to an old nemesis' surprising return…
- 32 PGS. (EACH)/Rated T+ …$3.99 (EACH)
NEW MUTANTS #3
- ED BRISSON (W) • Flaviano (A)
- Cover by ROD REIS
- THE FUTURE COMES KNOCKING!
- While the original New Mutants are off in space, the rest of the youth of Krakoa begin to make the future they want to live in. First up - Armor's outreach party, seeking young mutants who have chosen not to come to Krakoa.
- 32 PGS./Rated T+ …$3.99
NEW MUTANTS #4
- JONATHAN HICKMAN (W) • ROD REIS (A/C)
- THE EXPLOSIVE RETURN OF CANNONBALL!
- The team has reached the Shi'ar Galaxy only to find the empire in turmoil! Deathbird returns and she won't let Bobby and Sam get in the way of what she wants!
- 32 PGS./Rated T+ …$3.99
FALLEN ANGELS #3 & #4
- BRYAN HILL (W) • SZYMON KUDRANSKI (A)
- Issue #3 – Cover by ASHLEY WITTER
- Issue #4 – Cover by DAVID NAKAYAMA
- APOTH APPROACHES! PSYLOCKE'S PAST THREATENS HER NEW TEAM!
- Psylocke's past continues to haunt her as she molds her companions into a fighting force… But can they take on the children of Apoth?
- 32 PGS.(EACH) /Rated T+ …$3.99 (EACH)
X-FORCE #3 & #4
- BENJAMIN PERCY (W) • JOSHUA CASSARA (A)
- Cover by DUSTIN WEAVER
- THE BEST DEFENSE…
- TARGET: ALL ENEMIES OF MUTANTKIND!
- First, the new team strikes back against the humans who took one of their own. Then, with its orders established, the new X-Force hits the ground running, taking on deadly threats targeting mutantkind's rightful place in the world…
- 32 PGS. (EACH)/Parental Advisory …$3.99 (EACH)
EXCALIBUR #3 & #4
- TINI HOWARD (W) • MARCUS TO (A)
- Cover by MAHMUD ASRAR
- ISSUE #3 – VENOM ISLAND VARIANT COVER BY KOI PHAM
- ISSUE #4 – VENOM ISLAND VARIANT COVER BY KAEL NGU
- THE GREEN EARTH TREMBLES!
- THE HARD TRUTH OF THE CAPTAINS BRITAIN!
- Captain Britain must face the truth about her brother and choose her path forward as MI-13 and the agents of the crown become aware of her ascension. As the lighthouse grows, Apocalypse and Rictor must master the earth beneath their feet.
- 32 PGS. (EACH)/Rated T+ …$3.99 (EACH)
MARAUDERS #3 & #4
- GERRY DUGGAN (W) • ISSUE #3 – MICHELE BANDINI (A)
- ISSUE #4 – Lucas Werneck (A)
- Covers by RUSSELL DAUTERMAN
- ISSUE 3: VARIANT COVER BY JEEHYUNG LEE
- SALT WATER & HELLFIRE! THE NEW BLACK BISHOP OF THE HELLFIRE CLUB!
- Sebastian Shaw recruits a new Black Bishop continuing with his machinations against the two Queens of the Hellfire Club! Meanwhile, Captain Kate and her Marauders wreak havoc on the high seas from the Atlantic to the Pacific in the name of the mutant cause!
- 32 PGS. (EACH)/Rated T+ …$3.99 (EACH)
Only thing I don't like about this is the Marauders solicit seems to confirm that Emma is no longer the Black King of the Hellfire Club.
Wait, what? How the hell was that incorrect? Emma was felled in the first wave of the Sentinel attack, and yes, comatose
Jean's situation was literally life or death...urgency, desperate times/desperate measures, mother lifting a car to save a baby, etc. Plus her mind was in her own body to do the initial transfer....to go back, the circumstances are not the same...Jean's psyche is not in her own body, she's not under attack, and while the body she occupies is telepathic, Emma's mind is completely shut down, and (because this makes the most sense to me), Jean's own telepathy was temporarily expended after such a feat as whole consciousness transfer in mere seconds. Thus, Xavier needed to help bring Jean back
Furthermore, Storm wonders if such a thing could be a reflex for powerful telepaths like Jean and Emma....but at least in Jean's case,we know both from the actual moment, and Jean's retelling of it, that she made a deliberate decision and effort to do it
Despite their worries, we know that Emma did not transfer her consciousness to anyone else, reflexively or otherwise...it remained dormant in her own body, until the power surge
If you want to equate Jean's purposeful action
to that of a freak accident involving an exotic alien energy power surge while she was still in a coma...
be my guest...for me, it's not
Incredible, trying to frame Jean using her own power to save herself as a screw up...furthermore, Jean was not comatose, she is prepped for the transfer process...Xavier tells for he is certain the psyche that reaches out to him(present tense) is Jean's. Her mind is active.
But anyway, I needn't even use a past example a as it is PROVEN ON PANEL, in UXM 316, that Xavier did indeed put Emma's consciousness back in her body.....but I was pulling stuff from my ass right?
No response neccessary
Jean's wearing Cerebro in that X-Force cover...so either it comes off once in a while, or there's going to be another one made.
We really should have a poll on whether the helmet comes off Xavier by the end of this HoxPox arc even if just for a scene.
We really should have a poll on whether the helmet comes off Xavier by the end of this HoxPox arc even if just for a scene.
The most dominant species on the planet? What? Some strong implications there.
Aw man hell yeah, New Mutants is going to be dope. The duo back together with Hickman writing again.
Just finished reading this issue and once again it was fantastic.
All this confirmation of future issues not rolling back HoXPoX ideas has pretty much convinced me to subscribe to a bunch of X-titles for the first time since the early 90s. I'll give them all 6 months to see how they all run with these ideas.
Was originally only going to give Hickman's ongoing a shot, but they got me.
All this confirmation of future issues not rolling back HoXPoX ideas has pretty much convinced me to subscribe to a bunch of X-titles for the first time since the early 90s. I'll give them all 6 months to see how they all run with these ideas.
Was originally only going to give Hickman's ongoing a shot, but they got me.
I feel like I know way more about what's going on now, like a few of my ideas have been right, others have been wrong, but in the end I still have no idea at all where this is heading :D
Bless you, Jonathan Hickman, for bringing be back into X-Men. I didn't think this would be possible.
Bless you, Jonathan Hickman, for bringing be back into X-Men. I didn't think this would be possible.
Fun fact. That's the very first X Men issue I read. It was 1994 and I was in Saudi Arabia. An Egyptian friend lent me his Arabic translated copy at school. I had no fucking idea what was going but I didn't care. Jim Lee ♥️Wait, what? How the hell was that incorrect? Emma was felled in the first wave of the Sentinel attack, and yes, comatose
Jean's situation was literally life or death...urgency, desperate times/desperate measures, mother lifting a car to save a baby, etc. Plus her mind was in her own body to do the initial transfer....to go back, the circumstances are not the same...Jean's psyche is not in her own body, she's not under attack, and while the body she occupies is telepathic, Emma's mind is completely shut down, and (because this makes the most sense to me), Jean's own telepathy was temporarily expended after such a feat as whole consciousness transfer in mere seconds. Thus, Xavier needed to help bring Jean back
Furthermore, Storm wonders if such a thing could be a reflex for powerful telepaths like Jean and Emma....but at least in Jean's case,we know both from the actual moment, and Jean's retelling of it, that she made a deliberate decision and effort to do it
Despite their worries, we know that Emma did not transfer her consciousness to anyone else, reflexively or otherwise...it remained dormant in her own body, until the power surge
If you want to equate Jean's purposeful action
to that of a freak accident involving an exotic alien energy power surge while she was still in a coma...
be my guest...for me, it's not
The Avengers are small time in this scenario. They're not gonna stop a unified species with their own nation and government and everything that entails. Certainly not with a dozen omega level mutants on hand, which may as well be living nukes.
Still. The new X-men are brainwashing government officials and making allies with villains. I can hardly call them heroes anymore.
It's not that heroes are all squeaky clean but this is a step too far.
Im loving this type of resurrection. It brings everyone that was dead into play yet doesn't bring them back to life till they need to due to how many people they are bringing them back.
It's like the Schrodinger's cat of resurrection. Till explicitly stated all mutants are alive and dead for whatever plot device future writers want.
It's like the Schrodinger's cat of resurrection. Till explicitly stated all mutants are alive and dead for whatever plot device future writers want.
Hickman's Avengers were destroying alternate Earths. He just seems to like taking heroes in a dark direction.
That's what happens when you see that 10 alternate futures always end with the extinction of the mutant race. I'd stop giving a fuck about coddling humans, too.
I just get the feeling this is going to blow up in their faces very badly.
Like in trying so hard to stop that future they will ensure it.
Considering all the stuff the x-men have had to put up with in the last few years I am more than okay with them doing what it takes.
I think this will very much be a case of trying so hard to prevent your own destruction that you ultimately create the very scenario for it to happen again.
I don't agree, I think it's going in another way because for the last however long it's basically mutants are dead but now they are back. It might go bad but ideally it won't and will make for some great stories.
I mentioned this before but I think Hickman is intentionally trying to make the readers' opinions of the mutants match the humans' in the story so that when the humans do something really heinous, we feel bad about it. Or something along those lines.
We've never even seen a future that works out for mutants. lol
Yeah what Hickman is doing is fascinating and has tons of story potential, but he's also fundamentally changing how many of the X-Men interact with the world and has them doing some morally questionable things so they're harder to root for. It's less "I'm rooting for these people" and more "this situation is really cool and I want to see how it goes".
Which is why my most hoped for book is one about mutants that went to Krakoa, saw what was going on and were like nah I'm good. I'm expecting X-Factor to be this given that teams history, unless they become the Krokoan detective agency (which would also be cool). Maybe Fallen Angels will be about questioning this new world order as someone on Reddit speculated.
I mean this is all going to blow up in their face over time, it's inevitable. Storm might not be a cult leader but you just know that some mutant supremacist factions will rise up. Eventually the regular humans will discover that mutants are essentially immortal. Sinister's keikaku is still in play despite Moira's foresight to avoid it. Selene will try to sacrifice the Krakoan populace to become a goddess. Etc.
Which is why my most hoped for book is one about mutants that went to Krakoa, saw what was going on and were like nah I'm good. I'm expecting X-Factor to be this given that teams history, unless they become the Krokoan detective agency (which would also be cool). Maybe Fallen Angels will be about questioning this new world order as someone on Reddit speculated.
I mean this is all going to blow up in their face over time, it's inevitable. Storm might not be a cult leader but you just know that some mutant supremacist factions will rise up. Eventually the regular humans will discover that mutants are essentially immortal. Sinister's keikaku is still in play despite Moira's foresight to avoid it. Selene will try to sacrifice the Krakoan populace to become a goddess. Etc.