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Should there be a new OT for From the Ashes Era

  • Yes, and I will participate.

    Votes: 11 47.8%
  • Yes, but I probably won't participate.

    Votes: 6 26.1%
  • No. Keep the conversation here.

    Votes: 3 13.0%
  • No. I have no interest in From the Ashes.

    Votes: 2 8.7%
  • Let's just talk about it on the Comics Era OT.

    Votes: 1 4.3%

  • Total voters
    23
  • This poll will close: .

mjc

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
5,879
I think is pretty obvious it is Moira in a cloned Xavier body. The art style makes him too feminine:

house-5-900x900.jpg


I believe they are going to reset the timeline once more at the end with Moira having all of the memories from this last life as the impersonating Prof. X. Setting the stage for a drastic change in character for the newer series after this is finished.

That's an interesting theory, I can see where you're coming from.
 

OmniGamer

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,754
Actually the whole memory/essence collection, storage, part of the process reminds me of the Shi'ar holempathic crystal...but instead of an inorganic crystal, it's imprinted into a genetically identical husk
 

MrMegaPhoenix

Member
Oct 27, 2017
366
It's my understanding that memories are constantly being stored, it's just the backups are done weekly. I'm still skeptical of this "Xavier"...there's too much opportunity to edit/manipulate/fabricate memories to shape to "his" ideal vision.
yeah that might be right. It doesn't say explicitly, just "a backup of every mutant mind on the planet exists. Once a week, Charles Xavier copies the "latest version" of every mutant mind to multiple cradles... and so on". It would make me wonder why he has to have the helmet on 24 hours a day though, as opposed to just once a week.

But yeah, another thing, what's the deal with Xavier saying "No More" as some huge powerful thing. Assuming the timeline presented has been right so far, then the cuckoos at least were already resurrected before the mission (as they were present during the ambassador tour). So "no more" can't mean "no more death" since they already resurrected people. I think it does make sense if it was the first time a resurrection was done, but it just doesn't appear that's the case. Otherwise, what could "no more" be referencing?

Honestly, the whole paragraph reads that it could actually be Omega Sentinel or an AI saying it. The reference to "they" could be the mutants blowing stuff up, the "funerals of our children" could be seen as the destruction of robots at the base, the part of "they have murdered so many of us" could easily be seen as mutants destroying sentinels. While "this is just...how things are for....those people. for mutants" can be easily taken as "mutants are violent and they will destroy robots".

So could this mean that "no more" and the appearance of a breakdown not actually be related to Xavier or moira (and not either of them saying it), but rather Omega Sentinel becoming Nimrod? The information from Moira is that Nimrod came online then, but what if not because of the Mother Mold, but because Omega Sentinel evolved to a Nimrod state? the Mother Mold came online for a few seconds and that might have been enough to merge its AI with OS to become nimrod? It would make sense that the AI have a stance of "no more" against the mutants, though if its Charles saying it....I'm not sure what he's referring to here?
 

nitekrawler

Member
Oct 28, 2017
312
Moira in a Bastion suit is too big not to be upcoming and important. When we're over being shocked that she joined up with Magneto, Sinister, Apocalypse, Moira plus Sentinels should just be expected.

I keep thinking her in the Bastion suit might explain the genocide at Faraway. The other dashed section of the timeline we have yet to see. The timeline has her injured during a sentinel attack then comatose for a year before the genocide at Faraway. I mean why else would the Genocide not occur during the sentinel attack but a year later? She had a dormancy period after being infected in a sentinel attack and activated killing them all a year later is my guess.

I am astounded to see so many subscribing to an idyllic Classic Xavier. Even Classic Xavier is a perverted, arrogant, hypocritical jerk. Well before the retcons that would later make him even worse.
 

TaleSpun

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,449
There's also the part at the back of every issue with the reading order.

"Two stories that are one."

What if the "two stories" being referenced are not literally the two books, but the two perspectives of "X" in X1/Life 10 and Moira in X2/Life 9?
 

Bufbaf

Don't F5!
Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,642
Hamburg, Germany
I kinda want Hickman to do a big Spidey story to bring together all the clone stuff, Morlun/Other shenanigans, Spideys transformations, deaths and mutations and everything to set up a final definitive canon for all this crap :)

Actually I want Hickman to be head of Marvel stories at this point.
 

TaleSpun

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,449
I'm thinking there's a possibility Jean is a save-scummed revival from like pre-Dark Phoenix era. That would fit how she's being written, but it would also give new context to certain very small scenes. Like her interaction with Brocolli kid: Is she making amends? or is that history just lost on her entirely? The line she repeats to Storm: Is she actually repeating it? Or is it, as far as she knows, the first time she's said it? Storm laughs, but Storm could be in on what's really up as she's obviously respected as a priestess of a sort.

I was thinking about this last night in relation to how people keep saying the character writing is "off" because if you look over every issue so far... that's largely just not the case. The obvious standouts have been Magneto, Emma, and Sinister - big surprise, Hickman considers all three favorites - but Scott, Logan, Kurt, Mystique, Apocalypse, etc.? The guy's written like five lines for M, but he clearly gets her voice. There's obviously more to X and my Jean theory is above, but yeah, I pretty vehemently disagree that the dialogue is off. Most of these characters don't sound any better or worse than do under anyone else's pen. I think Hickman is just portraying them in the new status quo being set up as finally being empowered to see the world as it is and, rather than assimilate, make their own way within it.
 

MrMegaPhoenix

Member
Oct 27, 2017
366
I keep thinking her in the Bastion suit might explain the genocide at Faraway. The other dashed section of the timeline we have yet to see. The timeline has her injured during a sentinel attack then comatose for a year before the genocide at Faraway. I mean why else would the Genocide not occur during the sentinel attack but a year later? She had a dormancy period after being infected in a sentinel attack and activated killing them all a year later is my guess.

I am astounded to see so many subscribing to an idyllic Classic Xavier. Even Classic Xavier is a perverted, arrogant, hypocritical jerk. Well before the retcons that would later make him even worse.
I definitely think this is a possibility, especially with the description of how someone becomes an omega sentinel too (and bastion was involved in Karima becoming OS too)

it shows us the sentinels coming for the mutants, but then makes it clear that attack happened a year before her death. It also makes it clear there were survivors of that sentinel attack since "whoever" did the genocide had to kill a massive amount of the same race (which indicates mutants here). The area was shielded, so either it was someone inside Faraway or just the sentinels came back to finish the job

The only knock against this theory I think is that it makes it clear that it requires a "human host". I think its noteworthy that Moira apparently doesn't show up on scanners (or at least Destiny couldn't see her), but does this mean she really could be infected to become an OS? If yes, it might explain the genocide since she wasn't in control, but what would that mean for a 6th life? Would her mind become free of programming? or could that all explain the 1000 year timeline too since it would suggest ascendancy with a technological hivemind would fit into that mindset? Then perhaps like the baby nimrod thing said (not designed to last that long), maybe her 6th life "machine mind" degraded to the point where she was back to being a mutant in the 7th life and understandably was mad as hell towards any potential sentinel creators?
 

nitekrawler

Member
Oct 28, 2017
312
The only knock against this theory I think is that it makes it clear that it requires a "human host". I think its noteworthy that Moira apparently doesn't show up on scanners (or at least Destiny couldn't see her), but does this mean she really could be infected to become an OS? If yes, it might explain the genocide since she wasn't in control, but what would that mean for a 6th life? Would her mind become free of programming? or could that all explain the 1000 year timeline too since it would suggest ascendancy with a technological hivemind would fit into that mindset? Then perhaps like the baby nimrod thing said (not designed to last that long), maybe her 6th life "machine mind" degraded to the point where she was back to being a mutant in the 7th life and understandably was mad as hell towards any potential sentinel creators?

I'm still working under the assumption that Moira's 6th life is somehow linked to the librarian and their attempt at ascension though it's difficult to discern how she could still be alive at that period. I would imagine she would have memories of the experience of being programmed but no longer be subject to said programming in subsequent lives.

Though I've read some interesting theories that describe each of Moira's lives as a ring of hell. Which would mean the 6th life should contain some heresy. Siding with the machines in some aspect would certainly qualify. I'm just not sure how she could do that and not be killed by Destiny.
 

MrMegaPhoenix

Member
Oct 27, 2017
366
I'm still working under the assumption that Moira's 6th life is somehow linked to the librarian and their attempt at ascension though it's difficult to discern how she could still be alive at that period. I would imagine she would have memories of the experience of being programmed but no longer be subject to said programming in subsequent lives.

Though I've read some interesting theories that describe each of Moira's lives as a ring of hell. Which would mean the 6th life should contain some heresy. Siding with the machines in some aspect would certainly qualify. I'm just not sure how she could do that and not be killed by Destiny.

yeah i agree. I think if she's alive, it could be something related to her being part machine. The Librarian (who is neither the elder nor the female blue person) is using the helmet with a mostly X shaped visor and mentions about "theres too much machinery floating around inside there - and not enough soul to save, let alone copy". That sounds super related to the current era with the holographic mutant DNA database and the helmet being related to cerebro.

we also know that there was a "human - machine - mutant war" and we know the humans lost while we also know the blue people are "friends" with Nimrod. If we assume the blue people are mutants fused with machines, that could explain it. Maybe Moira joined up with AI in her 6th life and found a way to merge with the AI (since if all mutants were part machine...the machines wouldn't hunt them, right?). This could explain why the female blue person "isn't celebrating" because she learned the phalanx aren't going to absorb mutants and also why she mentions finding a way around the problem, since it sounds like what a researcher would say.

tied into earlier, if moira became an OS during the faraway genocide event, that may be enough to push her to research AI in the next life, attempt that life as the "can mutants be saved if they were AI" type of life and it can lead her to learning more about the soul/DNA collection stuff in life 10 while also leading to her being super mad at realizing teaming up with AI is a failure so she tries to murder all the trasks?
 

BebopCola

Member
Jul 17, 2019
2,048
Back in the early 90's I remember they always explained away the X-Men vehicles and Danger Room and tech as Xavier hiring contractors/corps, and then erasing/altering their memories so as not to trace it all back to him. And this was when Xavier was held up as the angelic figure in the wheelchair. Even young, stupid me went "well, if he did it then, I bet he does it all the time."

And regarding Moria, what would happen if she were to be cloned? Would it become a race between them to see who could reach 13 and die first to get the reincarnation?

What happens if she gets absorbed by the Phalanx? Or the Brood? Does her power transfer to the big hive mind? What if Rogue does her thing?

It is all a fascinating thought study. Hickman is a genius that has made me start buying individual comics regularly again.
 

Harpoon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,573
Kind of surprised he hasn't shown up already considering what happened in the first issue.

Granted there is still sometime but I assumed he would play a bigger role.

If I had to guess he will be the big mutant (in terms of power) still standing with Humans?

He's an F4 character and currently doesn't have his powers. I don't think it's that surprising he's not a major player here.
 

MrMegaPhoenix

Member
Oct 27, 2017
366
im not sure if was mentioned pages ago, but whats the deal with some of these?:

we know about Rasputin and cardinal (and I assume the spoiler image for the latter is "looks like nightcrawler"), but what of the others?

the 3 headed robot says: "this is perfect. fans wont realize ???? until ????" and theres also the female helper. Whoever it referes to, the female knows Cylobel and when unmasked, she just looks like a green haired woman with face markings (theres a guy with the same face markings with her later too). Both only appear in POX1 with the former dying and the latter not being shown again. The character name is spoiled too, even though it appears to be Tri-Sentinel​
Cylobel we know, but only know she was a black brain telepath and a mutant hound, but is it as simple as "how powers will work" or something more important?​
Nimrod (the Greater?) has a big spoiler about "DO NOT ?????" , but do not what? is it "do not change diamond shape" because its supposed to be something related to Sinister?​
The librarian also has a spoiler about making sure "we never show that ???? ????" with that face tattoo and mask being important to the design. no idea of this except never showing whats under the cloak? The name is also spoilered but it clearly isn't ending in an N. or an X for that matter, but it could be just a random squiggle. Probably more important, but the color scheme is black and gold under the cloak (current x-men scheme) while its absolutely cerebro there and is highly suggestive of this being a mutant that is "friends" with nimrod.​


No idea what to think here, since none of those appear to have been answered with only a few issues left.
 
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FlexMentallo

The Fallen
Oct 29, 2017
990
Los Angeles
PoX 5 is up on comixology. Bit of an info dump on the krakoa nation plan in X^0 and it's structure in X^1. And some more crazy galactic Civ stuff. Dominions only fear Galactus and Phoenix. Heh.

More stuff that seems like future possible conflict points in how the whole backup/restore works - can see fights over the storage locations and over the big backup that Xavier does.Did Moira's No-Place get mentioned before? I feel like maybe it did.

Wonder who the other council members are?
 

Kanhir

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,889
This week's issue is fully Backstory Central. No idea who Hickman was selling as the one we all wanted to see, though. Forge?

I said it last week, but I really enjoy how they're taking common IT concepts (full vs incremental backups, redundant global storage) and explaining them in as un-techy a way as possible.

So Xavier has replaced his mind twice. It follows that this is how he "forgets" all of the Moira revelations, then "remembers" everything later when it comes time to set up House of X.
So he wipes people's memories (Magneto, Sinister, Moira?), backs himself up and wipes his own memories, everyone lives the 616 timeline we know, then at some point Xavier gets an automatic past-self restoration and then he puts the others' memories back. It's all very neat.
I was wondering why go through all this and not just go ahead with Krakoa from day one, but it makes sense that they need mutants to truly experience the human persecution before they can be convinced of the Krakoa solution.

Only one PoX issue left and still no Moira VI, no present-day Moira X and no closure on X1000.
I guess we have to assume X1000 is Moira VI, and PoX #6 (as a red issue) will have some dramatic revelation about how it affects her and her subsequent lives (e.g. Moira VII-X has the mind of the Phalanx, and that's why she embraces "necessary evil"). I can't see any other way of wrapping up these plot threads in one issue, but I'm sure Hickman is cackling away at his desk about how wrong I am.
 

thetrin

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,631
Atlanta, GA
PoX 5 is up on comixology. Bit of an info dump on the krakoa nation plan in X^0 and it's structure in X^1. And some more crazy galactic Civ stuff. Dominions only fear Galactus and Phoenix. Heh.

More stuff that seems like future possible conflict points in how the whole backup/restore works - can see fights over the storage locations and over the big backup that Xavier does.Did Moira's No-Place get mentioned before? I feel like maybe it did.

Wonder who the other council members are?
No-Place was mentioned in the very first issue of HOX (I believe) in the infographic about Krakoa. It's described as a part of Krakoa, apart from Krakoa.
 

TaleSpun

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,449
This one felt like the issue with the most teases for the ongoing and the other new books. I have a feeling that when they do actually see Namor again, it won't be to forge an alliance.

No-Place was mentioned in the very first issue of HOX (I believe) in the infographic about Krakoa. It's described as a part of Krakoa, apart from Krakoa.

The Moira mention is new and certainly a tease.
 

Fubar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,723
I honestly did not like this one very much. it just seemed like too much of an info-dump.

Namor was cool though.