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Should there be a new OT for From the Ashes Era

  • Yes, and I will participate.

    Votes: 19 55.9%
  • Yes, but I probably won't participate.

    Votes: 7 20.6%
  • No. Keep the conversation here.

    Votes: 4 11.8%
  • No. I have no interest in From the Ashes.

    Votes: 3 8.8%
  • Let's just talk about it on the Comics Era OT.

    Votes: 1 2.9%

  • Total voters
    34
  • This poll will close: .

PhoncipleBone

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,347
Kentucky, USA
Give him some Gambit husks!
1424236497605.jpg
Even more relevant today!


lol
 

CoolestSpot

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
17,325
Wait so Cerebo is a bit of technology

In a story where technology is an opposing force and also we're exploring it's own evolution?

Yeah this will be alright.
 

deimosmasque

Ugly, Queer, Gender-Fluid, Drive-In Mutant, yes?
Moderator
Apr 22, 2018
14,324
Tampa, Fl
She still had her powers, she just got shot in the head during the attack on the institute.

That's right! I forgot that the New Mutants Squad got out of M Day pretty good. Only Prodigy lost his powers and even then he technically got them back in a way. Well at least all the previously copied knowledge.
 
Oct 25, 2017
13,246
I can't wait to see how the usage of resurrection invariable goes wrong.

I don't trust Xavier one bit, and the entire thing feels really creepy.
 

OmniGamer

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,780
Wait so Cerebo is a bit of technology

In a story where technology is an opposing force and also we're exploring it's own evolution?

Yeah this will be alright.

By right, it should be Jean handling the downloading and transferring of consciousness...she's the only mutant telepath I know of to do so without mechanical or artificial means...Jean+The Five would be a true all-mutant resurrection process
 

Coiote

Member
Oct 25, 2017
237
I feel we are actually reading Moira's villain origin story. People going the obvious route thinking that Sinister will be the problem, but it might actually be Moira. I actually don't see this being Marvel-616, unless they want the X-men to dominate Marvel comics like they did in the 90's.
 

Sargerus

▲ Legend ▲
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
20,934
You know what, fuck it, i'm going with "Its actually Moira's soul in Xavier's body" theory.
 

CoolestSpot

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
17,325
By right, it should be Jean handling the downloading and transferring of consciousness...she's the only mutant telepath I know of to do so without mechanical or artificial means...Jean+The Five would be a true all-mutant resurrection process
Also Xavier could be fucking or altering with people "for the cause" too

Dude has like too many ways he could be fucking people over
 

unknownspectator

AVALANCHE
The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
2,200
you know, I wonder if they gradually get weaker when they are revived and i also wonder how many times it has happened before? I think mags hinted it happened to him at least once.
 

TheMadTitan

Member
Oct 27, 2017
27,373
By right, it should be Jean handling the downloading and transferring of consciousness...she's the only mutant telepath I know of to do so without mechanical or artificial means...Jean+The Five would be a true all-mutant resurrection process
She did it with the Phoenix though.

The Red Room telepath was able to do it to Natasha and Yelena (and others) before Nat put him out of his misery after she came back; but I'm not sure if he was a mutant. If so, he did it without tech since their consciousnesses were kept in his own mind, so Xavier could revive him, and then set him up to do all of this without Cerebro.

But Chuck is clearly doing some shit.
 

Sou Da

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
16,738
By right, it should be Jean handling the downloading and transferring of consciousness...she's the only mutant telepath I know of to do so without mechanical or artificial means...Jean+The Five would be a true all-mutant resurrection process
Nah, Throw Pixie in there for some necromancy and confirmation that their actual soul is coming back and you'd get rid of the "it's just cloning" debate.
 

TaleSpun

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,449
Also Xavier could be fucking or altering with people "for the cause" too

Dude has like too many ways he could be fucking people over

Honestly, everything being done is so elaborate, I doubt mind C'control ever factors in. Like, it locates mutants and records consciousness backups. There's not gonna be a third function to Cerebro and X couldn't brainwash an entire nation without assistance. Even if he had help, it's still be a boring, uninventive twist.
 

Anth0ny

Member
Oct 25, 2017
47,443
hoooooly fucking shit what an issue. these red issues... bruh.

GOLDBALLS IS THE KEY TO ALL THIS
 
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Alice

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
5,867
This storyline is so much more nuts than any other series start Hickman has done. This is crazy.
 

MistaTwo

SNK Gaming Division Studio 1
Verified
Oct 24, 2017
2,456
This storyline is so much more nuts than any other series start Hickman has done. This is crazy.

Yeah, that is what I am loving this time. I honestly kind of expected a slightly more gradual buildup similar to his Avengers run, but
this time it really is just pedal to the floor insanity from the start.
 

Alice

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
5,867
Yeah, that is what I am loving this time. I honestly kind of expected a slightly more gradual buildup similar to his Avengers run, but
this time it really is just pedal to the floor insanity from the start.

Yeaaah, he went into Avengers pretty slowly. I think it's because he had both Avengers titles under his helm and had more control overall. This time he needs to set a clear paradigm so the entire X-Team with 6 or 7 (how many was it?) books can work with his plot, leading into the next event he has planned for them all.
 

TaleSpun

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,449
Yeaaah, he went into Avengers pretty slowly. I think it's because he had both Avengers titles under his helm and had more control overall. This time he needs to set a clear paradigm so the entire X-Team with 6 or 7 (how many was it?) books can work with his plot, leading into the next event he has planned for them all.

More than that since there's gonna be a second wave of books in 2020.
 

Chasing

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
10,860
I feel we are actually reading Moira's villain origin story. People going the obvious route thinking that Sinister will be the problem, but it might actually be Moira. I actually don't see this being Marvel-616, unless they want the X-men to dominate Marvel comics like they did in the 90's.

Gotta start laying the foundation for those incoming MCU movies, lol.
 

NeonZ

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 28, 2017
9,396
I feel we are actually reading Moira's villain origin story. People going the obvious route thinking that Sinister will be the problem, but it might actually be Moira. I actually don't see this being Marvel-616, unless they want the X-men to dominate Marvel comics like they did in the 90's.
This series is meant to set up the relaunch of the entire X-Men line, it'd make no sense if it was just meant to be Moira's backstory.
 

Manmademan

Election Thread Watcher
Member
Aug 6, 2018
16,185
By right, it should be Jean handling the downloading and transferring of consciousness...she's the only mutant telepath I know of to do so without mechanical or artificial means...Jean+The Five would be a true all-mutant resurrection process

On the contrary, it's been done several times.

Emma just took Iceman's body back in the 90s and stuck her mind in it like it was NBD then went wild with his powers. No tech involved.

Xavier (with permission) transferred his mind into the body of fantomex, stuck fantomex's mind on the astral plane, then molecularly restructured that body into a younger copy of his own without any tech. Psylocke more-or-less copied this technique to build herself a new body out of what remained of Sapphire Styx, though she needed to "borrow" additional psychic power to do it.

Jean has some unique talents, but Xavier has always been the world's strongest telepath- especially if you consider the Onslaught and Red Onslaught business. Jean isn't there yet.

I feel we are actually reading Moira's villain origin story. People going the obvious route thinking that Sinister will be the problem, but it might actually be Moira. I actually don't see this being Marvel-616, unless they want the X-men to dominate Marvel comics like they did in the 90's.

This is an odd take. We know Moira can't be a villain in any sense that opposes the mutant cause, because Destiny would have predicted this and killed her. That's what the entire discussion of life 3/4 (I forget which, at this point) was about. If she doesn't dedicate her existence to helping mutantkind, or at the very least remain neutral then she dies a miserable death she never sees coming.

We also know for certain this IS Marvel 616, because the "Krakoa situation" got referenced in Invaders this week.
 
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OmniGamer

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,780
She did it with the Phoenix though.

I'm talking about Uncanny X-men #281....when Fitzroy's future Sentinels attack the Hellfire Club, put Emma in a coma and kill a number of her Hellions...Jean is attacked and before they can finish the job, she's able to purposefully telepathically transfer her consciousness into Emma's body
 

Manmademan

Election Thread Watcher
Member
Aug 6, 2018
16,185
I'm talking about Uncanny X-men #281....when Fitzroy's future Sentinels attack the Hellfire Club, put Emma in a coma and kill a number of her Hellions...Jean is attacked and before they can finish the job, she's able to purposefully telepathically transfer her consciousness into Emma's body

That was the same storyline where emma took iceman's body, iirc. Since we know Emma isn't the most powerful telepath there is (jean, rachel, chuck, and even psylocke are probably better at this point) you kind of have to assume they can all do it.
 

OmniGamer

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,780
On the contrary, it's been done several times.

Emma just took Iceman's body back in the 90s and stuck her mind in it like it was NBD then went wild with his powers. No tech involved.

Xavier (with permission) transferred his mind into the body of fantomex, stuck fantomex's mind on the astral plane, then molecularly restructured that body into a younger copy of his own without any tech. Psylocke more-or-less copied this technique to build herself a new body out of what remained of Sapphire Styx, though she needed to "borrow" additional psychic power to do it.

Jean has some unique talents, but Xavier has always been the world's strongest telepath- especially if you consider the Onslaught and Red Onslaught business. Jean isn't there yet.

Emma was not her doing....it was by complete accident, caused by a Shi'ar energy power surge when Sabertooth was rampaging through the mansion and Bishop tried to stop him, and Iceman happened to be watching over her comatose body at the time

Psylocke required Styxx's "soul energy" to do the job, not just pure telepathy
 

OmniGamer

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,780
That was the same storyline where emma took iceman's body, iirc. Since we know Emma isn't the most powerful telepath there is (jean, rachel, chuck, and even psylocke are probably better at this point) you kind of have to assume they can all do it.

Naw....Emma/Iceman was UXM 314...also, emma needed a power swap device to switch with Storm back in Uncanny after Dark Phoenix story
 

Manmademan

Election Thread Watcher
Member
Aug 6, 2018
16,185
Emma was not her doing....it was by complete accident, caused by a Shi'ar energy power surge when Sabertooth was rampaging through the mansion and Bishop tried to stop him, and Iceman happened to be watching over her comatose body at the time

Psylocke required Styxx's "soul energy" to do the job, not just pure telepathy

Emma panicked, but that was definitely her ability. Otherwise she wouldn't have been able to transfer herself back.

Psylocke required additional power to get the job done, but it's still identical to the technique X used on fantomex. Betsy was present for that and is one of the only people aware of what happened.

Naw....Emma/Iceman was UXM 314...also, emma needed a power swap device to switch with Storm back in Uncanny after Dark Phoenix story

same story arc, not the "same issue." Emma put herself into a psychic coma to survive the attack on the hellfire club that killed the hellions. Jean and the gold team were present for that same attack, jean is considered "dead" but her mind was just placed in emma's body temporarily.

Emma remains comatose until the mansion has a power breakdown (due to an attack), wakes up disoriented and places her mind in bob's body. She went looking for the hellions (who were killed way back in UXM 281 when emma went comatose) but when finding out they'd all been killed, willingly gives up iceman's body.

It's the same arc.

The dark phoenix arc is SO OLD that none of the feats and limitations are valid anymore. Everyone is drastically stronger than they were in the 80s due to power creep.
 
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BebopCola

Member
Jul 17, 2019
2,085
With the oddly noble/heroic bend that Hickman has been giving Apocalypse (which I totally love since I've been an Apoc stan since the X-Men cartoon), I wonder what kind of contrition or penance Apocalypse will have to pay for the transgressions he has committed against a lot of the mutants there? Will him, Sinister, Selene, etc have to make public statements to apologize for what they've done? Some kind of community service (which could explain Apocalypse, Captain Britain, and Jubilee kicking ass together in Excalibur)?
 

Manmademan

Election Thread Watcher
Member
Aug 6, 2018
16,185
With the oddly noble/heroic bend that Hickman has been giving Apocalypse (which I totally love since I've been an Apoc stan since the X-Men cartoon), I wonder what kind of contrition or penance Apocalypse will have to pay for the transgressions he has committed against a lot of the mutants there? Will him, Sinister, Selene, etc have to make public statements to apologize for what they've done? Some kind of community service (which could explain Apocalypse, Captain Britain, and Jubilee kicking ass together in Excalibur)?

Apocalypse got an extremely confusing redemption story during Age of X-man which likely explains all of the above. I don't recommend reading it though.

Why they would do that was definitely inexplicable until PoX/HoX, and the reveal that Apocalypse would be on Excalibur.
 

OmniGamer

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,780
Emma panicked, but that was definitely her ability. Otherwise she wouldn't have been able to transfer herself back.

Emma ending up in Iceman's body was none of her own doing...freak accident meets closest body present at the time....furthermore we don't know how she got back in her own body....the issue ends with Xavier convincing Emma to not give into grief and despair, and Banshee carrying her out, with her still in Iceman's body....also, she was running on pure instinct, and despite the tricks she pulled off, she couldn't do the simplest thing, which was go to human form...when she tried, she caused herself great pain as her bones reformed as ice

In Xavier/Fantomex's cause, I believe X was a pure astral being at that time? As such, what he did should have been easier without his physical body acting as an anchor....it's why he asked Voight to use her transubstantiation aspect of her teleportation power to dissolve his body to try to psychically pierce the psychic static caused by Exodus and holocaust fighting on Asteroid M
 

Manmademan

Election Thread Watcher
Member
Aug 6, 2018
16,185
Emma ending up in Iceman's body was none of her own doing...freak accident meets closest body present at the time....furthermore we don't know how she got back in her own body....the issue ends with Xavier convincing Emma to not give into grief and despair, and Banshee carrying her out, with her still in Iceman's body....also, she was running on pure instinct, and despite the tricks she pulled off, she couldn't do the simplest thing, which was go to human form...when she tried, she caused herself great pain as her bones reformed as ice

this is needless nitpicking. There was no additional power or boost available during the "freak accident." Emma panicked, seized the closest body that would bust her out of the X-mansion and that happened to be bobby. We don't see the switch back, but without an explanation the most likely solution is emma simply went back of her own volition. There has never been any information that would lead us to believe otherwise.

Also, "going to human form" isn't the "Simplest thing" since it took bob YEARS of practice before he was able to convert his body to organic ice at all! Originally he simply surrounded a human body with snow/ice armor. Expecting Emma to "get" immediately what it took bob a VERY long time to figure out isn't reasonable.

In Xavier/Fantomex's cause, I believe X was a pure astral being at that time? As such, what he did should have been easier without his physical body acting as an anchor....it's why he asked Voight to use her transubstantiation aspect of her teleportation power to dissolve his body to try to psychically pierce the psychic static caused by Exodus and holocaust fighting on Asteroid M

You're confusing feats and limitations years if not decades apart, which as discussed you *can't do*.

Quite a bit has happened to Xavier in the interim to increase his power significantly, and that aside, seizing a body and molecularly restructuring it isn't "easy" at all from the astral plane, otherwise Shadow King would have done it during the decades he was stuck there instead of the mind control bit he's known for.

That feat has been accomplished exactly zero times by any telepath before X did it. edit: and note that unless we include the Onslaught feats, X doesn't have any telekinesis. Nate Grey was able to affect things on the molecular level, but had to use telekinesis to do it. X's feat was purely telepathic and almost completely inexplicable.
 
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