So excited to see what the Moon Studios will bring to the table next-gen! You're such a talented team with a fresh vision of what games could be.
-
Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
Jonathan Cooper (ex ND) says studios MS acquired aren't at the same level as Sony 1P "will only get there with long-term hiring and financial support"
- Thread starter lunanto
- Start date
- Status
How so? Obsidian are literally my favourite developer, and they're responsible for a disproportionately large share of my favourite games of all time. Heck, without Obsidian, there's a decent chance I'd never have gotten into video games as a major hobby at all.
Saying that Sony's first party output can't match one of my favourite developer's best games isn't the same as saying I only have a 'minuscule' amount of appreciation for those studios.
I know they did starwars old republic sith lords, but a lot of what they have done are licensed games. With pillars of eternity being their big original title that did very well.
A lot of their library consists of licensed titles from Never winter sequels/expansions, dungeon siege 3, south park stick of truth. Though a original title, it's a licensed brand.
The other worlds and Pillars I would say is their show case in doing original content. Alpha protocol was jank, tyranny was good. I mean lately they have kind of come into their own this past gen.
Hopefully that gets expanded.
I don't think any of those studios would be offended by what Jonathan said, it's reasonable and common sense. Naughty Dog has consistently gotten prime support by Sony because Sony understood how valuable they were to them selling consoles, so Naughty delivered again and again and kept improving. Win/Win for both parties. The sort of represent the ideal of what can happen when a developer and a publisher join forces, when a publisher recognizes and supports talent and when the goal is that a developer gets the resources they need to create greatness in order to support the publisher. They got the time and resources to get to that point and that's great.
He even made it very clear that those other studios could get there with time, but that's what it'll take: Time.
That was the point?
MS was looking at smaller scale studio able to work o a tight schedule even if it meant smaller scale games.
There's nothing controversial about this IMO.
MS was looking at smaller scale studio able to work o a tight schedule even if it meant smaller scale games.
There's nothing controversial about this IMO.
Insomniac Games. Polyphony Digital (on par with Turn10 now actually).
Correct. Terrible generation for MS's first party, and the first gen that I had no interest in any of their games. I hope it doesn't take two gens to get a better first party slate.
This is so true. Playground games is actually the only MS studio Microsoft currently has that can critically and commercially compete with the best of Sony's studio's. The sad thing is racing is seen as a niche so "it doesn't count".
Flamebait title on what was a pretty harmless tweet. You should have focused on the " long-term hiring and financial support" part. Dude's right.
I personally don't think Insomniac and Polyphony are any better than 343i, Turn 10, Playground, or The Coalition.
Um, yea.
Sucker Punch
Media MOLECULE is like the rival to RARE. Gran Turismo team, Guerrilla Games, and seeing Sony Bend make a game like days gone from not making a AAA game in over a decade was kind of a big deal.
Were not even including recently purchased Insomniac which their history kind of speaks for itself.
Have you been asleep this whole generation or what? This guy is stating the absolute obvious.
Obsidian/inXile is black isle studios. They've created many classics.
I prefer the xbox eco system, but i always buy a playstation at some point in the generation for a handful of exclusives, while the more somber, "the last of us" inspired games like god of war or days gone dont appeal to me much, nor do the cinematic narrative adventure games of quantic dream, i love insomniacs out put, japan studio's games, and the beavy of japanese exclusives. And while both flawed, i actually enjoyed horizon zero dawn and death stranding. But ms has done a good job of cultivating worthwhile exclusives this generation, and i will always adore halo and forza, both motorsport and horizon
Polyphony will forever hold a special place in my heart, but ok, let's just say that they are on the same level now as the above mentioned studios. I think Sony (mostly) has been more patient and led the studios take their time with the games.
You trying to argue something of subjective against a developer opinion which expresses a common sentiment about such studios. Of course you don't agree with him but I think he tried to be more objective and realistic possible.
Last edited:
Cold hard facts. Ninja theory seem like the studio to be able step up to the plate, with some hiring and budget, support etc.
They already have playground so let's see their fable game.
Coalition nailed it with gears 5, they are close...so so close.
It's on these studios to prove themselves. Sony studios have done it time after time though.
They already have playground so let's see their fable game.
Coalition nailed it with gears 5, they are close...so so close.
It's on these studios to prove themselves. Sony studios have done it time after time though.
Of course, he's right. Thread title misrepresenting quote. I'm happy for these devs being acquired by MS, the current leaders seems to know what they're doing. It's way more promising than a non platform holder big publisher picking them up. Can't wait to see how the new competition between MS and Sony pans out over the next 6 years or so.
It's not his fault someone on here decided to turn his tweet in to a full blown thread.
Sadly, it feels like every little tweet or soundbite from an interview gets taken out of context and blown in to something out of nothing these days. Especially where console warring can be expected (not at all aimed at you btw).
Playground and "arguably" Obsidian are the studios that I would even put in the same sentence as Sonys 1st party studios.
So hes not wrong?
Just look at staff count and history of the studios.
Though we do have to remember what Naughty Dog and Guerilla were before Sonys acquisition.
Guerilla Games made Shellshock:Nam....a super middling game it got reviewed horribly but it wasnt that bad(I was young when I played it)...I think I still have a copy of it somewhere in my storeroom.
Naughty Dog made Way of the Warrior....and while we all love Crash Bandicoot, you wouldnt believe the studio would end up going to be Uncharted and The Last of US.
Even the smaller acquisitions with time and care will all be AAA level studios.
So hes not wrong?
Just look at staff count and history of the studios.
Though we do have to remember what Naughty Dog and Guerilla were before Sonys acquisition.
Guerilla Games made Shellshock:Nam....a super middling game it got reviewed horribly but it wasnt that bad(I was young when I played it)...I think I still have a copy of it somewhere in my storeroom.
Naughty Dog made Way of the Warrior....and while we all love Crash Bandicoot, you wouldnt believe the studio would end up going to be Uncharted and The Last of US.
Even the smaller acquisitions with time and care will all be AAA level studios.
Sucker Punch haven't proven themselves any better than The Coalition tho.
GT now has a worthy and often superior competitor in Turn 10 and PG.
And I love Insomniac dearly, but their pedigree isn't 90+ metacritic games. I'd argue critically and commercially, they sit in the same tier as 343i.
Outside of Sony's heavy-weights, I really don't think there's this enormous gulf that some perceive there to be.
He's probably talking about the studio behind State of Decay and the one behind The Happy Few which are, let's say, below average studios. The new studio in Santa Monica also have everything to prove.
We all agree that Playground, Turn 10, Coalition and 343 all produce good games (great even for Playground), but so far ALL of them have been forced to do the same single IP for 10+ years. Playground is rumored to do something else so I'm excited to see their talent in a new genre. But Jesus so much talent wasted in the three other studios making the same games every two years. I wonder when Microsoft will have the freaking balls to let them do something else. Stop Gears and Halo goddamn.
We all agree that Playground, Turn 10, Coalition and 343 all produce good games (great even for Playground), but so far ALL of them have been forced to do the same single IP for 10+ years. Playground is rumored to do something else so I'm excited to see their talent in a new genre. But Jesus so much talent wasted in the three other studios making the same games every two years. I wonder when Microsoft will have the freaking balls to let them do something else. Stop Gears and Halo goddamn.
I'm specifically talking about Obsidians solo adventures as a studio isn't inxile a different studio owned by Microsoft now?
Obsidian has had a decent track record, but only a few original titles. And now their games have to appeal to console as well. So it's going to be a tall order now to get creative for games on xbox. With it being more of a pc, maybe they continue with titles like pillars on xbox?
Not sure.
Pretty funny because both had a massive stretch of not releasing any games.
I can't tell if this is sarcasm or not...
GT Sport is the best racer this gen by a long mile (ha!).
Insomniac made fantastic Ratchet and Clank and GOTY material freaking Spider Man
We haven't seen much from Sucker Punch lately so I won't comment on that one.
You take that back! Killzone 2 was brilliant, especially the MP.
Even in the case that you didn't like the game, calling it trash comes across as insincere.
Insomniac has one of the biggest variety in IP's for a studio, and their track record with how many titles they have produced is pretty nutts.
They didn't just make racing games for 20 years. So their value as a developer is perceived by many a little higher than a developer who makes amazing racing titles.
Sucker punch released second son 3 years after Infamous 2, and 2 years after the DLC? They then did first light like a year later. Their next big game comes out next year.
So 2 titles in a shorter gen that are both extremely different. MEDIA MOLECULE released tearaway in 2012 then remastered it for PS4 released it in 2014 I believe, dreams i will say has been a pain for them. But seeing how the community seems to like it I FEEL it's been worth the wait.
A lot of the reasons are they had late PS3 games they put out. Which is why for Santa monica you only saw god of war in 2018.
Obsidian >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sony's first party. But if your benchmark for high quality is cinematic action-adventure and one quirky Japanese game once in a decade then I can see the point.
That's a good way to start a console war. That's for sure.
Fair enough, I agree that was not the best way to go about it, not the right etiquette but so is calling out your contemporaries capabilities just because it does not adhere to their own sensibility of what is good vs bad.
I agree with your point on developers branching out to new genres outside their comfort zones and underachieving but on the flip side, cheapening current/prior achievements, especially on the basis of the type of game/genre it represents is a bit infuriating. It might be a personal pet peeve as it something I often feel about my work and the recognition it get in the mobile industry vs outside it in the "AAA" industry, especially considering how the same industry goes about borrowing so many concepts from their mobile peers.
KZ2 is an exception, that's why I said mostly. :PYou take that back! Killzone 2 was brilliant, especially the MP.
Even in the case that you didn't like the game, calling it trash comes across as insincere.
I enjoyed it back in 2009. Not sure I'd ever revisit it again though. Man, it's literally been ten years since.
Well that's only bad if you take out the rest of his statements, which you did.
He's not wrong, but at the same time, that doesn't mean Microsoft can't work to turn those studios into much higher quality ones in future. Then again, given Microsoft's history with past acquired studios, I'm not sure how confident I am about Microsoft being able to do that. I guess we'll see.
lol that's bait, you just wanted those sweet notifications
Sony's studios had the chance to evolve and grow. Take Sucker Punch with Ghost of Tsushima and Guerilla Games with Horizon. This is really double standards to demand from Microsoft when they have just been acquired, had prior commitments to fulfill. Typical game development cycle last 3-5 years.
Last edited:
So you liking something better, makes the dev automatically at the same level? Do you realise how weird that sounds?
Based on what do you think the new Senua is going to be amazing? I mean, the first entry was shorter and more linear than the average Call of Duty with very repetitive and shallow gameplay and even worse combat. Sure, they nailed the audio and graphics to a certain degree (without those 2 there would'n be a lot left), but I have absolutely no clue how the next game will turn out. If I have the first game to go on, I would rather expect it to disappoint.
If you think it was more enjoyable than Uncharted 4, then that's okay (because taste). But U4 is on a whole other level with a lot more systems going on. The comparison alone is silly. It will take probably decades and a lot of MS funding for Ninja Theory to get on that kind of level. I like Grindstone on Apple Arcade more than Senua. So with your reasoning Capybara Games Inc. is at the same level as Ninja Theory?
He's correct. I hope MS puts in the time and money that their studios need - with both, those studios will do great things.
Well, recent Microsoft studio acquisitions like Obsidian and Ninja Theory were pretty big news, but Sony acquiring Insomniac was BIG news. To me it felt like Sony had a drop the mic moment there, especially after how much fuss Microsoft had made about its acquisitions before, and Sony dropping this out of the blue in a tweet, crashing the Gamescom opening show.
The upcoming gen will show what all these studios are able to deliver. Microsoft and its studio do have the potential to catch up.
The upcoming gen will show what all these studios are able to deliver. Microsoft and its studio do have the potential to catch up.
Not really, Killzone 3 is solid too (84 on meta). And Shadow Fall has very competent multiplayer despite its SP letting things down.
Of course he did.
Obsidian and Double Fine are top-tier system. They never had a single chance like those Naughty Dog have had in the last 25 years.
Obsidian and Double Fine are top-tier system. They never had a single chance like those Naughty Dog have had in the last 25 years.
Uncharted 1 wasn't even the best "Uncharted" of its own year of release. Tomb Raider Underworld was better.
- Status