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Jonathan Cooper (ex ND) says studios MS acquired aren't at the same level as Sony 1P "will only get there with long-term hiring and financial support"
- Thread starter lunanto
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As opposed to the way the internet and even this form is? Especially when people talk in a way that they would never talk in public. So no, it's not exactly something that we all don't know either so him saying what many people think is just calling the sky blue.
It's not to say that studios don't get better and I sure hope they do but those are the facts for now.
And the same is true for the studios MS bought? Not sure I see your point.
Can we ensure that the fact it's just a tweet is stated in the title of the thread for these sorts of statements?
The working conditions and qol is a lot better at Microsoft and its subsidiaries, they don't crunch their employees to depression and early retirement like Naughty Dog does. I guess their games don't review 95, they get 85 instead but at least it is more sustainable long term.
Kind of a no-shit thing to say, as these were independent studios, some of whom struggled to get funding, so stands to reason that they're not at the level of Sony's in house studios. If we look at previous Xbox Studios like 343, TC, PG, Turn 10, then there's good reason to be optimistic from a quality perspective and with less pressure for those studios to release products quickly, there's scope for improvements in stories, available launch content, etc.
But none of that implies destroying a company's culture, that's you projecting your own belief onto his.
This is a highly debatable point, tbh. Definitely nowhere near certain.
Calling Killzone trash is far from the truth. Not to everyone's taste, sure, but hardly trash.
And Playground Games.
FH4 is the highest rated racing game on consoles and PC in like 15 years. FH3 sits at the same meta 92.
But I forgot, racing games don't count...
I honestly think Ninja Theory is up there as well, definitely industry-leading when it comes to motion capture acting and what they did with Senua's Sacrifice was crazy with a smaller budget and team, they should turn out great next gen.
Yeah, that's a good headline to get multiple pages of posts in 20 minutes.
Reasonable statement though. I'm sure Microsoft agrees with that take.
Reasonable statement though. I'm sure Microsoft agrees with that take.
Microsoft bought a bunch of studios that need to still be built up, just like Sony's did over a decade ago. Microsoft's future already looks immeasurably better than it has for the past six years.
I'll still take the best hits from Obsidian over anything Sony has ever made outside of Shadow of the Colossus.
I'll still take the best hits from Obsidian over anything Sony has ever made outside of Shadow of the Colossus.
He's not wrong and it would actually be weird if these MS studio's would somehow be immediately at the level WWS is at. Sony has been investing decades into them. These things take a lot of time and money, with time being the most important factor.
Don't be silly. They only made a few racing games. Sony's studio's have proven themselves capable of doing a lot more than just one genre (and the racing genre is for a fact also very limited in what you can do within the game).
Don't be silly. They only made a few racing games. Sony's studio's have proven themselves capable of doing a lot more than just one genre (and the racing genre is for a fact also very limited in what you can do within the game).
Yeah, there was some good content in there before he went full flag wave.
What is interesting though is his point about existing culture. We had people previously saying MS should be building from the ground-up rather than acquiring and attached loads of negative stuff to the purchases.
I think some of the studios have proved to be at the same level, but he's not wrong, Sony has been taking good care of his first party environment giving them the time and expertise needed to become what they are now.
I think that Playground or Ninja Theory are on that level with proper funding, but Turn 10 or Rare are not very far, I do hope that 343i takes to the next step with Halo Infinite and the coallition is also on a good level, not at the same but not very far, and also most of them are growing insanely fast and will take them time to fully adjust, but that can happen even on a senior studio like Naughty dog if they decide to grow and make a third developer group (maybe I'm wrong but I think they have the size for two big projects more or less now).
I think that Playground or Ninja Theory are on that level with proper funding, but Turn 10 or Rare are not very far, I do hope that 343i takes to the next step with Halo Infinite and the coallition is also on a good level, not at the same but not very far, and also most of them are growing insanely fast and will take them time to fully adjust, but that can happen even on a senior studio like Naughty dog if they decide to grow and make a third developer group (maybe I'm wrong but I think they have the size for two big projects more or less now).
I know, I'm not talking about acquisition, the acquisition is only a formality here like Sony buying Insomniac. The curation is in relation to the IP given to a studio alongwith budget and time. And it sure as hell takes both to make it top tier studio.
Naughty Dog also made Way of the Warrior, let's not forget about that. It takes some time for a creator to actually fully understand his craft and to then be able to deliver quality on a consistent basis.
I understood. But in his opinion such studios are not absolutely to the same level and I can't disagree with him. Aside Fallout New Vegas, Obsidian as the others, never send enough consistent higher standard in their releases as Sony studios. People now try to justify it as it's just because they haven't enough money but I doubt the problem was just that.
Obsidian started out by being the other fallout developer. ANd though i loved the outer worlds, it felt like a fallout game. When they try to do something original it doesn't always come out super great, but that could be because of budget more than talent?
Just saying a lot of sony's studios have a lot more legacy with multiple IP's brands that each studio has done throughout almost 20+ years.
Technically you can, Insomniac for example (I know they did past work with Sony).
Jonathan is on point here and keeps it real. Btw it was obvious for anyone who would try to compare Sony's and Microsoft's 1st-party output this gen. And also the fact that it is Microsoft who have to prove that they're capable of releasing a streak of universally positively received 1st-party titles from their different studios. I personally think that Hellblade 2 is a huge step in the right direction. Fable 4 and the Initiative's project should also show the progress.
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I really hope MS can nurture a raft of studios to the level that Sony has expertly seem to have done (how much pot luck is involved with just having the right talent at the right time is anyone's guess as well). I want a good reason to consider buying an Xbox or at least getting in on Xcloud when it gets into its stride and having games I want to play. I was a huge original Xbox and 360 fan back in the day precisely because they had exciting games back then that were fresh and just frankly brilliant, Halo especially. They rested on their laurels too much and kept pumping out the same franchises over and over. Ironically I didn't feel the PS3 had much going for it but then we got Journey and TLOU (at exactly the same time as 360 totally dried up for MS) and after that I was all aboard the Sony train. I hope MS bring it back. Hardware looks exciting and solid and there shouldn't be TVTVTV gimmicks this time either. I wish them well but it will take time.
In the topdown CRPG sector Obsidian is pretty much the best at the moment. Both Pillars 1+2 are almost as good as Baldur's Gate 2. And their 3D games are mostly great, too. They lacked budget and dev-time, both things may change under MS.
But he isn't wrong about the other studios. That doesn't mean that they can't get better.
But he isn't wrong about the other studios. That doesn't mean that they can't get better.
I don't even think New Vegas is Obsidian's best game, to be honest, and I'd still take it over any Sony first party release. (Of which, again, I like a great many.)
was that early ps2 days? ANd who owned way of the warrior?
Actually no, Obsidian started out being the other "BioWare developer", they touched Fallout years after releasing their first games.
And if you look at Obsidian story, they made some of the best and well regarded RPGs despite being fucked by publishers several times, they lacked resources for 15 years and even when they had very few bucks they managed to release excellent RPGs.
Their highest reviewed game was an original propriety so lol
Really? I mean the first Hellblade was a good game, but both criticly and commercially nowhere on the level of multiple games made by Naughty Dog. ND is a behemoth in the industry. Ninja Theory is just finally getting a chance to show what they can do when given a budget (and aside from an "in-engine" trailer and a multiplayer game that to me seemed like a way to provide themselves with a steady cashflow) have not shown anything out of the ordinary yet.
lol
What a disrespectful statement
Diminishing Playground Games, Double Fine, Ninja Theory, Obsidian, etc.
What a disrespectful statement
Diminishing Playground Games, Double Fine, Ninja Theory, Obsidian, etc.
I think the word "yet" added to the title would more accurately reflect the quote.
But yeah, Sony's put a ton of focus on building up their first parties in the last decade and change in order to try to make PS3 relevant in its early days when it wasn't doing so hot. That much attention and resources over a long period of time continues to pay off in the form of games that most Western 3rd-parties would never have greenlit without stuffing with microtransactions and other bullshit.
Microsoft, on the other hand, neglected their first-party output starting in the late 360 era and generally made poor long-term decisions in regards to cultivating and maintaining their first parties (focusing on multiplayer shooters and driving games which were not in short supply on the system, turning Rare into an avatar factory, making studios factories to pump out games in series whose popularity was already flagging). It's nice to see signs of them finally trying to turn things around, especially now that we can play all the games on PC.
But yeah, Sony's put a ton of focus on building up their first parties in the last decade and change in order to try to make PS3 relevant in its early days when it wasn't doing so hot. That much attention and resources over a long period of time continues to pay off in the form of games that most Western 3rd-parties would never have greenlit without stuffing with microtransactions and other bullshit.
Microsoft, on the other hand, neglected their first-party output starting in the late 360 era and generally made poor long-term decisions in regards to cultivating and maintaining their first parties (focusing on multiplayer shooters and driving games which were not in short supply on the system, turning Rare into an avatar factory, making studios factories to pump out games in series whose popularity was already flagging). It's nice to see signs of them finally trying to turn things around, especially now that we can play all the games on PC.
With the exception of Playground I don't think he's necessarily wrong, but it's not like Naughty Dog were worth a damn before they partnered with Sony, for example, so every great studio has to start somewhere. Xbox have shown they are committed for the long-haul and most of their acquisitions have been really smart.
I don't agree. Of course naughty dog is better than an obsidian, playground or Ninja theory but I'd hardly say Bens or Sucker Punch are
Pretty much all studios MS bought showed promise but lacked funding to really get there. And except Compulsion they have a fanbase, a legacy. So yeah I dont see the point you are making.
And yeah The Outer Worlds feels like a Fallout game because the Fallout creators developed it.
Which just shows how minuscule is your appreciation for the Sony first parties release. I mean say even an Obsidian game which is not their best, it's better than anything released by Sony studios until now, doesn't seems the best appreciation possible.
It might be harsh, sure.
To be slightly more charitable, Killzone 1, 3 and Shadowfall are middling at best. And Sony acquired this company after they had made that Vietnam game. Don't tell me that's an underrated classic.
Wrong people in leading positions. Phil taking over was a blessing for the XB brand.
No, I agree that Guerilla really proved themselves with HZD. KZ2 has a special place in my heart but the two games after that isn't as good at all.
I agree, though outside of Naughty Dog and now Sony Santa Monica, are the other Sony studios really a cut above MS's best?
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