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JOKER |OT| We live in a society |NO SPOILERS|

Dennis8K

Dennis8K

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
20,161
I don't understand how people can state the movie has nothing to say.

Maybe you don't agree with what it has to say. Or maybe you think it is executed poorly. Fine.

But how you can pretend it doesn't have an obvious "Eat the rich" message I can't wrap my head around...
 
carlosrox

carlosrox

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,270
Vancouver BC
Dennis8K said:
But how you can pretend it doesn't have an obvious "Eat the rich" message I can't wrap my head around...
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I think they mean it has nothing beyond that message, like it's obvious but doesn't go any deeper.

Though I'm sure some are claiming there is no message.

Either way, I haven't seen it yet, just my interpretation on some of the posts here.
 
roflwaffles

roflwaffles

Member
Oct 30, 2017
4,138
I found any reference or allusion to the source material outside of the Joker himself to be groan-inducing and cheap. The movie would have been better without them.
 
subpar spatula

subpar spatula

Refuses to Wash his Ass
Member
Oct 26, 2017
22,082
carlosrox said:
I think they mean it has nothing beyond that message, like it's obvious but doesn't go any deeper.

Though I'm sure some are claiming there is no message.

Either way, I haven't seen it yet, just my interpretation on some of the posts here.
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Then they are absolute idiots if they frame a critique around nothing to say... past something it is saying. This movie broke a lot of critics and it's quite hilarious.
 
Chuck Noblet

Chuck Noblet

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,090
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Lashes.541

Lashes.541

Member
Dec 18, 2017
1,752
Roseburg Oregon
So I went to the 2:15 showing in my town, don't know if it was because it's Friday. But there was three other people in the theater lol. Every other comic based film is normally packed at all times.
 
-Peabody-

-Peabody-

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,594
I know some people think the message is obvious and others are idiots for feeling that the movie is aimless but the movie is rather inconsistent at times. It forces the idea down the audience's throats that the 1% are evil but then frames their comeuppance as some sort graphic act of brutality that wasn't warranted. The film frames the clown as some sort of vigilante that is for the common man but then everything ends up more broken than before. The movie is very heavy-handed one moment and unclear with what it wants to say the next.
 
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woman

woman

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,532
Atlanta
What happened to the critic scores for this? They were very high in the wake of Venice but fell really low in the run up to the release. Was it just PR?
 
WarMacheen

WarMacheen

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
3,540
Loved it, the slow decent into acceptance of madness was well done. This version of the Joker is more unsettling to me than Ledger's because the character actually looks and feels like someone with serious mental issues.
 
The Watcher

The Watcher

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,349
taahahmed said:
Seriously. I'll probably watch it again at some point but this was one of the hardest movies to watch for me. Like damn.

Idk how people could be laughing during this movie.Yeah there are some moments but a ton of people were laughing at the most inappropriate parts.
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My sister cackled at one particular scene and I sort of gave her a look like "wtf". To be fair tho, it was an awkward situation.
 
Goodstyle

Goodstyle

Banned
Nov 1, 2017
1,661
The "nothing to say" criticism feels like posturing. Critics trying to seem above it all by not engaging with the film really because they think the hype cycle behind it was annoying (there's a reason next to no one was saying this at Venice). If anything though, the film pushes a very consistent message, extremely loudly and very frequently. Saying the film's message is obvious and hamfisted feels more like a legit criticism of it than what a lot of critics are saying right now.
 
Ignatz Mouse

Ignatz Mouse

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,741
StreaksFox said:
I know some people think the message is obvious and others are idiots for feeling that the movie is aimless but the movie is rather inconsistent at times. It forces the idea down the audience's throats that the 1% are evil but then frames their comeuppance as some sort graphic act of brutality that wasn't warranted. The film frames the clown as some sort of vigilante that is for the common man but then everything ends up more broken than before. The movie is very heavy-handed one moment and unclear with what it wants to say the next.
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Solid take.

I thought the movie spent a lot of time with just how pathetic Arthur was, but then in the last 5 minutes glorifies him. Kinda expected a King of Comedy ending there but it kinda blew it for the "cool" ending.

Phoenix was incredible throughout though.
 
Javier

Javier

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,623
Chile
Watched the film about an hour ago. I fucking loved it and Phoenix deserves all the praise for his outstanding work.
 
denx

denx

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,321
Just saw it. Still have to wrap my head around it, but first impressions are good. It is a disturbing movie indeed, but I'm itching to see it again.
 
travisbickle

travisbickle

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,953
Chuck Noblet said:
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Replace "undercover cop" with "person with a twitter feed".

I understand that big institutions have failed at providing us with guiding principles of how to act (religions, institutions, political ideologies) but individuals trying to police others behaviour by posting things they find out of the ordinary on the internet is not the way to go.
 
subpar spatula

subpar spatula

Refuses to Wash his Ass
Member
Oct 26, 2017
22,082
taahahmed said:
Seriously. I'll probably watch it again at some point but this was one of the hardest movies to watch for me. Like damn.

Idk how people could be laughing during this movie.Yeah there are some moments but a ton of people were laughing at the most inappropriate parts.
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Uneasy things are hard to digest. This probably isn't by design by the director or anyone involved, but people do laugh at weird, extreme, or even scary circumstances. It helps them cope and feel better.
 
OP
OP
Aurc

Aurc

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,890
Well, I got out of the showing a couple hours ago. The verdict? Fantastic movie.

Perhaps what it did best, in my estimation, is the way it balanced humor, morbidity, and darkness. You find yourself greatly disturbed by the Joker's actions in one moment, and inexplicably laughing at the next. You feel bad for laughing, in a way, because a lot of what's happening onscreen isn't funny, but twisted, or just strange.

A quality like that in a movie about the Joker is perfection, because it makes the audience akin to him. We're laughing in situations we shouldn't be, just like the Joker does.
 
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Dysun

Dysun

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,975
Miami
Excellent movie, and a terrific performance by Joaquin. I can see why its not for everyone, but now that I've seen it some of the critiques feel hollow
 
Strings

Strings

Member
Oct 27, 2017
31,380
Kind of what I expected unfortunately... Mostly good, but shallow. Could have done without the Zazie Beetz character - she was given absolutely nothing to work with.

The Murray appearance was electric.
roflwaffles said:
I found any reference or allusion to the source material outside of the Joker himself to be groan-inducing and cheap. The movie would have been better without them.
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Yeah lol.
 
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Glenn

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,291
So.. was this the same as a script? If so what was with the over the top reaction.

I agree that the movie may be shallow and not have much to say, but I don't get that initial reaction.
 
Queen Calanthe

Queen Calanthe

Banned
Aug 16, 2019
844
UK
TheGreatDirector said:
The movie was historically inaccurate and they didn't even consult the family of the man Ali was playing to get a more accurate account.
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The family that has been proved wrong? The family contested many things and we have recordings of Don Shirley talking about his relationship with his chauffeur as depicted in the movie and stated in Tony Lip diary.

The family was mainly against a movie depicting the brother in a bad way and, probably, because of their non-envolvement.

I am sure somethings in the movie were made up or modified, but certainly not the things contested by the family.

The brother even fucking lied saying he used to call Don every week when we know that is not true.

ZeoVGM said:
Uh, hate for the Green Book is absolutely warranted if you spend even the smallest amount of time researching the film.
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I did

I thought it was because of the "white savior" accusation that you hated it, so then for what? Because the family that treated Don like shit all his life said they did not approve of the movie?

I did my research, I am a fan of Don and I watched the movie. 3 things you are not and you did not do.

I was proud to see a black man struggling between his roots and his "being to white" in the mainstream without being made fun of.
 
Kaswa101

Kaswa101

Member
Oct 28, 2017
17,742
I'm still reeling from this movie, it was fantastic. Joaquin was insanely good and that score was absolutely haunting. I also love how so much of it is left open to interpretation, and it poses a lot of interesting questions to the audience. I can see why critics are so divided though lol - it's definitely not for everyone. And I love it for that.

Also this movie wasn't worth all the controversy. The violence wasn't even as graphic as John Wick 3, which just came out a few months ago lmao
 
headspawn

headspawn

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,605
I can't believe people actually doubted the man, amazing movie, still digesting. All the hub-bub trying to pan the movie before it even came is and was misplaced.
 

Deleted member 19218

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,323
Dennis8K said:
I don't understand how people can state the movie has nothing to say.

Maybe you don't agree with what it has to say. Or maybe you think it is executed poorly. Fine.

But how you can pretend it doesn't have an obvious "Eat the rich" message I can't wrap my head around...
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Click to shrink...

I saw it kind of like that. If we look at the "#MeToo" movement, people have always been asking how were people able to get away with sexual abuse hidden for so long or in some cases how were they able to move on and recover their careers. In this movie we see the successful people in wall street, the political leaders like Mr Wayne and celebs like De Niro's character were all bad people either being a nuisance, exhibiting sexual harassment, using others to further their own successes etc.

Even now, I know there are multiple universes but I don't think I will look at
Thomas Wayne
so innocently ever again.
 
Kaswa101

Kaswa101

Member
Oct 28, 2017
17,742
My favourite film of the year tbh. Shout-out to Hildur for the amazing music in both this and Chernobyl.
 
Border

Border

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,859
I thought there were definitely some crazy giant rats in the background of some shots. Did anyone else seem them?
 
RedEther

RedEther

Member
Jan 7, 2018
2,472
Movie was amazing seeing Arthur Flecks descent to madness was something else.

9/10

I wish we had more scenes with Phoenix's Joker. That talk show segment towards the end was incredible stuff .
 
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