JOKER |OT| We live in a society |NO SPOILERS|

subpar spatula · Oct 3, 2019

More_Badass said:
Okay? That being on the mind of US critics and influencing how they perceive and examine the themes and plot doesn't make their reviews bad

It kind of does. It means the critics don't fully understand the situation. If a critic is gonna say it will inspire copycats then you have to address the gun issue more than the movie. There are more cogs than a film regarding shooters, so to use this as a critique against the film is short sighted. It would be like if I reviewed a car for being bad cause it gets into accidents when my country has no laws against driving wherever the fuck you want.

Zelas · Oct 3, 2019

Liked it for sure. Definitely glad it sets itself apart from the formulaic superhero movies we're drowning in but a lot of the movie was still pretty stereotypical. The execution was still worthwhile.

People definitely overstated how messed up the movie was supposed to be though.

ZeroX · Oct 3, 2019

Yeah this movie isn't that transgressive, nor is it incel bait, it's just a depressing tale of mental illness and abuse.

I didn't really find it that emotional affecting other than when he checked the mail box and there wasn't any mail. I feel that. I want my parcels to arrive.

MortosDer said:
People laughing at some of the worst parts of the film was fucked up.

but he says it himself, it's a comedy!

the guy who couldn't reach the door knob was pretty damn funny but extremely dark. Like that is a wild moment to put that joke.

FluxWaveZ · Oct 3, 2019

I really enjoy unreliable narrators, and I think this movie did it well. What I didn't like, though, was how

when it's revealed that he never actually had a relationship with that woman in his appartment complex, they had to pull a flashback scene of all the scenes where they were together to show he was actually alone. I'm not stupid. It devalued the twist.

OtherWorldly · Oct 3, 2019

FluxWaveZ said:
I really enjoy unreliable narrators, and I think this movie did it well. What I didn't like, though, was how

when it's revealed that he never actually had a relationship with that woman in his appartment complex, they had to pull a flashback scene of all the scenes where they were together to show he was actually alone. I'm not stupid. It devalued the twist.

people like to be handheld . When I was getting out of my first screening a lady was asking

so the girlfriend wasn't real ?

VideogameVices · Oct 3, 2019

OtherWorldly said:
people like to be handheld . When I was getting out of my first screening a lady was asking

so the girlfriend wasn't real ?

Seems a fair question tbh.

FluxWaveZ said:
I really enjoy unreliable narrators, and I think this movie did it well. What I didn't like, though, was how

when it's revealed that he never actually had a relationship with that woman in his appartment complex, they had to pull a flashback scene of all the scenes where they were together to show he was actually alone. I'm not stupid. It devalued the twist.

movie might have been better IF

the relationship was real and he killed her anyway

Dabanton · Oct 3, 2019

Seeing this in 50 mins. Excited.

FluxWaveZ · Oct 3, 2019

VideogameVices said:
movie might have been better IF

the relationship was real and he killed her anyway

Nah,

I appreciated it because the moment she expresses that she cares about him after he creepily stalks her, like she was some Manic Pixie Dream Girl, I was going "huh?" She's on his wavelength the entire time, even during that godawful standup routine, which isn't natural knowing what we know of Arthur. So showing that it was another of his delusions made all too much sense.

Deleted member 42055 · Oct 3, 2019

Well that was something... I wish the musical choices were more creative. The rest... yea need to think on it. The people who love this will adore it, the people who hate it will loathe it. Im somewhere in the middle leaning towards that it could have done more with its premise.

Deleted member 42055 · Oct 3, 2019

ZeroX said:
Yeah this movie isn't that transgressive, nor is it incel bait, it's just a depressing tale of mental illness and abuse.

I didn't really find it that emotional affecting other than when he checked the mail box and there wasn't any mail. I feel that. I want my parcels to arrive.

but he says it himself, it's a comedy!

the guy who couldn't reach the door knob was pretty damn funny but extremely dark. Like that is a wild moment to put that joke.

For the current atmosphere around it though, this^ there is zero glorification here, it's all shown as just dark, sad, and a waste of life

Dennis8K · Oct 3, 2019

I thought that the movie was a very powerful critique of American society and the way it can create a monster.

And Arthur/Joker is most definitely a monster at the end. I think the movie makes that very clear.

The movie didn't feel like incel bait to me at all. Seems like a lot of people just can't handle the critique of a cold and heartless society that the movie presents.

FluxWaveZ · Oct 3, 2019

Yep, the movie makes it very apparent that all the sentiment around it was extremely overblown. No surprise, though, that's what happens nowadays before people even educate themselves on what they're ranting about.

OtherWorldly · Oct 3, 2019

Dennis8K said:
I thought that the movie was a very powerful critique of American society and the way it can create a monster.

And Arthur/Joker is most definitely a monster at the end. I think the movie makes that very clear.

The movie didn't feel like incel bait to me at all. Seems like a lot of people just can't handle the critique of a cold and heartless society that the movie presents.

I want to know which scene people like David Ehlrich thought this was incel bait.

Deleted member 4260 · Oct 3, 2019

I thought this movie was very good.

boontobias · Oct 3, 2019

This movie was good for the most part. Great in the last 30 minutes.

Despite framing this as a sheer departure from the comics, this felt like one of the most realized Batman worlds ever put to screen. It actually makes sense for Bruce Wayne to dress up like a bat to fight this shit. That said I felt background parts of the narrative were rushed when they could've been bolstered to deliver a more powerful conclusion to Arthur's character which was my biggest overall issue.

Deleted member 32822 · Oct 3, 2019

Just left the theater. Great movie, stellar performances, cinematography, soundtrack.

Yes he's evil by the end of it but the movie absolutely wants you to sympathize with him and I completely understand the reading of it as an incel call-to-action.

Beyond that, my main critique is that this Joker is just...this guys too, I dunno, dumb? to go toe-to-toe with Batman. There's no way he could outwit him.

jack_package_200 · Oct 3, 2019

Hated it.

It's neither edgy or transgressive. It's a dull slog.

The monologue where Fleck spells it out including how comedy is subjective got a groan from me.

We get it Todd, you think comedy is dead cuz of PC Cancel Culture.

I found Joaquin to be very one note.

Deleted member 32822 · Oct 3, 2019

I just wanna know who thought this movie was too violent. Like...even Deadpool is far worse.

OtherWorldly · Oct 3, 2019

Sega Dreamcast said:
Just left the theater. Great movie, stellar performances, cinematography, soundtrack.

Yes he's evil by the end of it but the movie absolutely wants you to sympathize with him and I completely understand the reading of it as an incel call-to-action.

Beyond that, my main critique is that this Joker is just...this guys too, I dunno, dumb? to go toe-to-toe with Batman. There's no way he could outwit him.

incels are hatred towards women though. This was a joker who hated his life and snapped . Very different from being an incel

chairhome · Oct 3, 2019

I may be in the minority, but I didn't like it that much. I thought it was just okay, while the performances were great (mostly Joaquin), but the other stuff bothered me (personally, others may like it).
What I didn't like

The liberties of making Joker what caused the Waynes to die, the "twist" that I saw coming as soon as she knocked on his door, trying to tie the politics of today with the story (i.e. "resist", etc) in light of the directors comments on "woke culture"

Also, plus one for some people laughing at inappropriate parts. There was a dude right next to me who cracked up

when Murray was shot

cj_iwakura · Oct 3, 2019

This is one wild film, and he might have shot past Heath Ledger. it's a terrifying performance, even though some shots are literally straight out of The Dark Knight(the police car ride).

My favorite, most chilling shot:

When he's standing in the neighbor's doorway in shadow. Yeeeeesh.

I felt it could have worked as a standalone film, but I always enjoy seeing Gotham as a playground, so I have no objection.

So uh...

Did it say what happened to the 'girlfriend' and her daughter? The ambulance sirens afterward sounded like bad things.

But again, unreliable narration, which this film did very well. Kind of Perfect Blue-ish.

gnarlyxcharlie · Oct 3, 2019

This was great. Definitely get the Taxi Driver vibes some of the reviews mentioned and have absolutely no fucking idea what the controversy was about.
Yes it was dark and uncomfortable and violent. No it didn't glorify any of it. Joaquin is so good in the role it was repulsive and downright depressing at times.

mnemonicj · Oct 3, 2019

I saw this yesterday and it was good, but not much more.

jack_package_200 · Oct 3, 2019

chairhome said:
I may be in the minority, but I didn't like it that much. I thought it was just okay, while the performances were great (mostly Joaquin), but the other stuff bothered me (personally, others may like it).
What I didn't like

The liberties of making Joker what caused the Waynes to die, the "twist" that I saw coming as soon as she knocked on his door, trying to tie the politics of today with the story (i.e. "resist", etc) in light of the directors comments on "woke culture"

Also, plus one for some people laughing at inappropriate parts. There was a dude right next to me who cracked up

when Murray was shot

My crowd applauded at that scene which was fucking weird.

chairhome · Oct 3, 2019

jack_package_200 said:
My crowd applauded at that scene which was fucking weird.

yeah, that's not a scene that I would clap for. weird.

Deleted member 32822 · Oct 3, 2019

cj_iwakura said:
This is one wild film, and he might have shot past Heath Ledger. it's a terrifying performance, even though some shots are literally straight out of The Dark Knight(the police car ride).

My favorite, most chilling shot:

When he's standing in the neighbor's doorway in shadow. Yeeeeesh.

I felt it could have worked as a standalone film, but I always enjoy seeing Gotham as a playground, so I have no objection.

So uh...

Did it say what happened to the 'girlfriend' and her daughter? The ambulance sirens afterward sounded like bad things.

But again, unreliable narration, which this film did very well. Kind of Perfect Blue-ish.

If I remember correctly, in the leaked version of the script from a while back

he killed her. They probably removed it because of the women in fridges trope.

FusedAtoms · Oct 3, 2019

Yeah that was pretty good , Joaquin Phoenix is obviously incredible

anyone else find it weird how that dude just gave him a gun? I thought it was going to be like he was trying to get Arthur fired or in trouble but it seems like he just gave him a gun for protection even though they clearly all think hes pretty weird

chairhome · Oct 3, 2019

FusedAtoms said:
Yeah that was pretty good , Joaquin Phoenix is obviously incredible

anyone else find it weird how that dude just gave him a gun? I thought it was going to be like he was trying to get Arthur fired or in trouble but it seems like he just gave him a gun for protection even though they clearly all think hes pretty weird

I felt like there was some

connection there, especially when he was like "you're my boy", I felt like he may have abused him or had some kind of inappropriate relations with him, so I thought he was genuinely trying to protect him.

FluxWaveZ · Oct 3, 2019

FusedAtoms said:
Yeah that was pretty good , Joaquin Phoenix is obviously incredible

anyone else find it weird how that dude just gave him a gun? I thought it was going to be like he was trying to get Arthur fired or in trouble but it seems like he just gave him a gun for protection even though they clearly all think hes pretty weird

I think you missed a plot point.

The reason Arthur ends up killing him and is pissed off at him by snitching about the gun in the subsequent scene at his workplace, is that he learned that the guy who gave him the gun was talking to others about he was trying to buy a gun off of him. This was after he got fired from his hospital gig, where he's told about this by someone on the phone.

I'm not sure if there was more elaboration on this point, but I think the assumption is that he was trying to get rid of the gun for whatever reason and just threw it to Arthur. Same reason he goes to his apartment out of "concern" for him after his mother dies, when he's really only there to have him talk to the cops and take the heat off of himself.

Elliott · Oct 3, 2019

What a nothing film. Joaquin shouldered that like fucking atlas.

Music was breathtaking at least.

HotHamBoy · Oct 3, 2019

Sega Dreamcast said:
If I remember correctly, in the leaked version of the script from a while back

he killed her. They probably removed it because of the women in fridges trope.

I'm certain they cut that but not for that reason

it's because of incel violence

The entire character should have been cut from the film, it's pointless and adds nothing but thematic confusion and potential controversy. On the other hand, it's obvious why they didn't.

FluxWaveZ · Oct 3, 2019

HotHamBoy said:
I'm certain they cut that but not for that reason

it's because of incel violence

The entire character should have been cut from the film, it's pointless and adds nothing but thematic confusion and potential controversy. On the other hand, it's obvious why they didn't.

I did feel that the scene fell entirely flat when nothing ends up happening. It clearly felt like something was missing.

So that's why. It's not a good resolution.

Deleted member 32822 · Oct 3, 2019

I do agree with the criticism that Joaquin was rather one-note. The best part was when he was talking to the two detectives outside of the hospital. Now THAT attitude felt like the Joker.

HotHamBoy · Oct 3, 2019

FluxWaveZ said:
I did feel that the scene fell entirely flat when nothing ends up happening. It clearly felt like something was missing.

So that's why. It's not a good resolution.

I also don't think that was the only scene they cut from that plothread because the whole thing is a bunch of nothing as it stands in the film.

Charcoal · Oct 3, 2019

Would someone mind answering a question for me?

Is Batman in this movie in any way?

OtherWorldly · Oct 3, 2019

Charcoal said:
Would someone mind answering a question for me?

Is Batman in this movie in any way?

Not yet

Deleted member 32822 · Oct 3, 2019

Charcoal said:
Would someone mind answering a question for me?

Is Batman in this movie in any way?

Yes, technically

FusedAtoms · Oct 3, 2019

FluxWaveZ said:
I think you missed a plot point.

The reason Arthur ends up killing him and is pissed off at him by snitching about the gun in the subsequent scene at his workplace, is that he learned that the guy who gave him the gun was talking to others about he was trying to buy a gun off of him. This was after he got fired from his hospital gig, where he's told about this by someone on the phone.

I'm not sure if there was more elaboration on this point, but I think the assumption is that he was trying to get rid of the gun for whatever reason and just threw it to Arthur. Same reason he goes to his apartment out of "concern" for him after his mother dies, when he's really only there to have him talk to the cops and take the heat off of himself.

Yeah okay that's what I thought ,I caught all that I guess I just thought they'd explain his reason for dumping it on him like that but I guess it doesnt really matter

cj_iwakura · Oct 3, 2019

FluxWaveZ said:
I did feel that the scene fell entirely flat when nothing ends up happening. It clearly felt like something was missing.

So that's why. It's not a good resolution.

I disagree,

it adds an element of tension and unease to the scene after, leaving you wondering what happened, even with the sirens.

cj_iwakura · Oct 3, 2019

Sega Dreamcast said:
I do agree with the criticism that Joaquin was rather one-note. The best part was when he was talking to the two detectives outside of the hospital. Now THAT attitude felt like the Joker.

Yeah, he was great in that scene, but he's great in every scene.

D.Dragoon · Oct 3, 2019

I thought it was ok. I didn't find it amazing and definitely didn't find it as offensive as some articles made it out to be.

The Argus · Oct 3, 2019

Just got back from the Alamo Drafthouse. Wonderful film. Exactly what I wanted it to be. Unreliable narrator story telling really sold it. Great film. This is what should have started the DCU.

jett · Oct 3, 2019

spx54 said:
I won't be surprised if this movie is super on the nose given how much of an insufferable tool Todd Phillips seems to be

the moral panic over this movie is beyond dumb but phillips whining about woke culture was just ridiculous

It's incredibly on the nose. Often it literally spells out what it's trying to say. It's not intelligently or cleverly written. I don't really understand why Joaquin decided to participate on this project.

Bubukill · Oct 3, 2019

Yeah, I just saw it.. and loved it. However, I did sympathize with Arthur, at least during the first 45 minutes.

You realized the guy is mentally lost from the beginning, but hell, I felt "poor guy" during some situations.

I was really rooting for him when he killed at least the first two wall streets guys in the subway when he was being beaten, but then he fucking killed the third one who was trying to escape, and there is where I had to accept the dude is a psychopath and complete murderer.

Although, the dude was really looking forward to stop laughing in order to not get into trouble; it seemed like an accidental kill or in defense, but it ended up being a total cold blood cowardly act.

sleepnaught · Oct 3, 2019

Fantastic film, loved it. Cinematography was on point. If I had to gripe about something, I felt Arthur was a bit dumb. Joker usually is portrayed as a pretty witty foe, this guy not so much. Just plain nuts. But, I understand they were going in a different direction with him.

I loved how they handled Wayne and his family. It would incredible to see a sequel to this film with Batman versus the Joker and his legion of fanatics. They made Gotham looks so damn dark and gritty, would be a shame to pass that up.

Jarmel · Oct 3, 2019

Yea I thought this was pretty great. It dodged a lot of the pitfalls I expected it to fall into. The tension level in some of the scenes near the end was through the roof.

Rackham · Oct 3, 2019

Just saw it. I was hyped for it but it wasn't that great. It was ok. Definitely a few society and rise up moments.

And nothing surprising happened. I guessed at everything from the trailers.

Deleted member 32822 · Oct 3, 2019

sleepnaught said:
Fantastic film, loved it. Cinematography was on point. If I had to gripe about something, I felt Arthur was a bit dumb. Joker usually is portrayed as a pretty witty for, this guy not so much. Just plain nuts. But, I understand they were going a different direction with him.

I loved how they handled Wayne and his family. It would incredible to see sequel to this film with Batman versus the Joker and his legion of fanatics. They made Gotham looks so damn dark and gritty, would be a shame to pass that up.

I think they were really trying to establish Joker being 30 years old in this film. Let's say Bruce is like...12, max. He most often debuts as Batman when he's 25, so that would make Joker 45.

I much prefer Bat and Joker being closer in age so that Joker can keep up.

Handicapped Duck · Oct 3, 2019

About to see a 10:00 O'Clock showing, have one cop car stationed with a cop patrolling the inside and outside area. Expecting the film to be good-to-great.

Gold Arsene · Oct 3, 2019

So for people who've seen it(I'm hoping to catch it this weekend) how would you rate Phoenix next to previous Joker's?

JOKER |OT| We live in a society |NO SPOILERS|

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