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Gold Arsene

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
30,757
This was so aggressively underwhelming. The writing was so cornball, Phoenix seemed to be operating at 25% power and Todd Phillips proved that he wasn't the guy for the job. It's fine, but we went through this entire kerfuffle all for the third best live action Joker performance and one of the most maudlin and pretentious superhero movies to date? It's a 6/10 at best.

Also, got a massive fucking chuckle at the exposition card he handed out to explain the laugh.
Aren't there cards like that in real life to explain medical conditions?
 

Deleted member 42105

User requested account closure
Banned
Apr 13, 2018
7,994
One thing that was bothering me is the apparent age difference suggested between Arthur and Bruce. Unless Batman's fighting a completely different Joker (in which case, what's the point of this as an origin story), motherfucker's gotta be going on 60 years old before Batman encounters him.

Come up with your own canon my dude, we're in fanfiction territory here.
 
Oct 2, 2018
3,902
The movie was limited to its adherence to the comics IMO. If it was its own thing, not called Joker and had no Bruce, it would have been more cohesive. The Bruce segments felt tacked on to remind the audience that this is a DC movie.

I get it though, the IP sells.

but you walk in and you already know its a DCEU type movie. A lot of people have issues with the bruce stuff. I thought the alley scene wasn't done well. If it was excised - it wouldn't have been missed.
 

Deleted member 11637

Oct 27, 2017
18,204
Consider the corporate culture at Wayne Enterprises where three raging douchebags fit right in as executives, and upon their deaths the CEO goes on TV to whitewash their reputations and exploit the incident to shill for his mayoral campaign.

Thomas Wayne ain't shit.
 

Moppeh

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,538
Wow... I thought that was pretty vile to be honest. Well shot and acted but I thought the script was horrendous. What a pessimistic, depressing film. It obviously takes a lot from Taxi Driver and King of Comedy but it is so much more darker and twisted. Unsubtle and frankly, uncompelling.

I'm not one of those people that thinks this is going to inspire shootings or whatever. It's just so completely unpleasant in a way I can't really enjoy or appreciate. I usually like darker material too. With a better screenplay, I think I would have absolutely adored this movie. I definitely understand some of the criticism for it now.
 
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Cpt-GargameL

Cpt-GargameL

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,024
Whatever happens, I want Hildur Guðnadóttir in more movies. She is fucking brilliant as a composer. That score throughout the movie was so eerie, I loved it.

Looking through her list of projects and it all makes sense, just wow. She's done some of my favorite movies.

 

Deleted member 11637

Oct 27, 2017
18,204
Whatever happens, I want Hildur Guðnadóttir in more movies. She is fucking brilliant as a composer. That score throughout the movie was so eerie, I loved it.

Looking through her list of projects and it all makes sense, just wow. She's done some of my favorite movies.


She also scored HBO's Chernobyl, she's great at composing eerie soundscapes.
 

Deleted member 42105

User requested account closure
Banned
Apr 13, 2018
7,994
I need to re-watch King of Comedy. Jerry Lewis in the beach house scene is a big fucking mood in regards to this movie's final act.
 

cj_iwakura

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,195
Coral Springs, FL
This I do agree with. Shame it's there. Totally unnecessary.
I knew it was coming from the moment they were in a theater, I think the first one was there just to make you think he was going to do it.


Honestly I'm not sure the film wants you to think Joker's sympathetic. Consider that DeNiro's character was being perfectly rational and reasonable(and is a firm liberal in reality), and got his head blown off for trying.
 

Einchy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
42,659
Seeing him in this and You Were Never Really Here is crazy, dude's body couldn't look anymore different.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,092
One thing that was bothering me is the apparent age difference suggested between Arthur and Bruce. Unless Batman's fighting a completely different Joker (in which case, what's the point of this as an origin story), motherfucker's gotta be going on 60 years old before Batman encounters him.

The new Batman movie Bruce will be in his 20s so the age difference would not be as big as you say
 

HardRojo

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,100
Peru
Absolutely loved it. Enjoyed the movie throwing curveballs here and there and the ambiguity of it. Phoenix made the role his own and I'm glad we got to enjoy another great Joker in a very different style from what we've seen before.
 

Ogodei

One Winged Slayer
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,256
Coruscant
Remember that this isn't meant to be connected to the DCEU at all. The Joker's still there in Birds of Prey, though I forget if they're keeping Leto specifically around or not.

This is an Elseworlds one-shot.

I thought it was brilliant. Uncomfortable, sure, but to me the discomfort came off as guided, deliberate, and impactful. It's a really great take on the Joker, too, a man who is at once completely monstrous and yet a victim of circumstance, like the most compelling of the Bat-villains, a truly tragic figure who could not have turned out any other way (albeit driven there by Diablos Ex Machina, like many of the Rogues Gallery, such as with his social worker getting cut off and thus cutting access to his anti-psychotics).

I really enjoyed the questionable reality of all of it, particularly the question of his paternity. A theory my friend and I came up with on leaving was that the "deal" that Thomas Wayne struck was to get Arthur back in Penny's custody, in exchange for forging papers of his adoption. And the cool thing is that could be true, or not! It doesn't matter and is just a fractal bouncing through the corridor of Joker's mind.
 

jviggy43

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,184
I enjoyed it. The apartment scene with his clown coworkers was my favorite part of the movie. Pheonix did a good job but I'd probably have him ranked almost last for joker movie standings. He wasn't threatening and its hard to imagine this version ever becoming a real match for batman. Ledger> Nicholson> Hamill> Pheonix

but you walk in and you already know its a DCEU type movie. A lot of people have issues with the bruce stuff. I thought the alley scene wasn't done well. If it was excised - it wouldn't have been missed.
I felt having the clown watch them walk into the alley would have been enough to get the point accross without having to show us the death for the 100th time, let alone the fact that this was just a plain jane version of it that wasn't special.
 

TheModestGun

Banned
Dec 5, 2017
3,781
Isn't it kinda weird how the summaries never sound very good? Is this a movie that would totally suck if it weren't for the actors in it putting in way more effort than the script deserves?
I don't think so, most films when broken down to their core plot elements really don't sound that interesting. It's far more about execution than anything else.

For my money, I thought it was executed very well. I thought it was a pretty morally gray movie which I appreciated and made the film much more interesting. Although the movie had a surprising amount of anti-capitalist sentiment in it for a comic book movie.
 

cj_iwakura

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,195
Coral Springs, FL
I enjoyed it. The apartment scene with his clown coworkers was my favorite part of the movie. Pheonix did a good job but I'd probably have him ranked almost last for joker movie standings. He wasn't threatening and its hard to imagine this version ever becoming a real match for batman. Ledger> Nicholson> Hamill> Pheonix


I felt having the clown watch them walk into the alley would have been enough to get the point accross without having to show us the death for the 100th time, let alone the fact that this was just a plain jane version of it that wasn't special.
It did add one extra touch: "You get what you deserve."
 

Wingfan19

Layout Designer
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
9,752
Bothell WA
BTW, anyone else notice all the clocks (well the 3 that I noticed; in his social workers office, flash to the asylum, and the punch out machine) all were set to 11:11? Any significance?
 

orochi91

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,801
Canada
This was some harrowing shit.

I was constantly on the edge of my seat, as were many people in the audience.

The scene of him making a smile with his blood during the peak of his notoriety was insane.

Straight up iconic moment.

Wonderful ovation at the end from the crowd too~~~
 

Gold Arsene

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
30,757
I feel like seeing the Wayne's shot is ironically the closet thing to a hope spot the movie has. Like it's a completely bleak ending where chaos wins.

But you also know it's the spark that created Batman. So while I get being tired of seeing it so much I kinda get why it's there. I'll say I like the cut to Bruce in the alley by himself at the end.
 

Mr. Robot

Member
Oct 30, 2017
499
This was so aggressively underwhelming. The writing was so cornball, Phoenix seemed to be operating at 25% power and Todd Phillips proved that he wasn't the guy for the job. It's fine, but we went through this entire kerfuffle all for the third best live action Joker performance and one of the most maudlin and pretentious superhero movies to date? It's a 6/10 at best.

Also, got a massive fucking chuckle at the exposition card he handed out to explain the laugh.

Actually i found it clever, if you ever been given one on the street/bus by someone with an illness you get this mixed feeling of compasion, sadness, pity and awkwardness...
 

Datajoy

use of an alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
12,081
Angola / Zaire border region.
I liked the movie. Some of the musical choices didn't really fit the narrative. The central performance was great.

Don't really get the fury surrounding the movie, nor the rapturous praise.
 

Sleepyhead86

Member
Oct 27, 2017
494
Just got back.... and well, that was certainly something.

Haven't had an emotional response to a film like that in a while. Most of it had to do with the crowd I watched it with I think. Let's just say me and my brother just looked at each other during the final act and felt a bit weird with the amount of people laughing and cheering.

Some shots are going to stay with me for a bit, Phoenix looked creepy as hell at times, and the story of a man diving into madness was directed well enough, but judging by the reaction of the crowd it's got me wondering what reaction Phillips was going for. For a story about Joker I guess the emotional chaos fits.

I know it makes me sound like a straight up prude, and I know it's just a movie, but man I still can't get over the vibe in the theater. Haven't felt that uncomfortable in a movie ever, and in a sense I suppose that's what a character like Joker should make you feel.

Would like to see at again and see how the experience changes.
 

ShutterMunster

Art Manager
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
2,450
This film was poorly constructed and plotted. Phoenix did better work in YOU WERE NEVER REALLY HERE.

I didn't expect much from Phillips, so I did not leave disappointed. The film was not deserving of the chatter surrounding it. Lousy work.

EDIT: At the risk of sounding extremely self-righteous (shit, maybe I am) this is the kind of film where when I'm confronted by people who like it, I question if I should find a different line of work.
 

Zekes

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,702
Joaquin did a great job but shit felt like it was written by 16 year old Hot Topic employee trying to be Scorsese. Awful
 
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Cpt-GargameL

Cpt-GargameL

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,024
This film was poorly constructed and plotted. Phoenix did better work in YOU WERE NEVER REALLY HERE.

I didn't expect much from Phillips, so I did not leave disappointed. The film was not deserving of the chatter surrounding it. Lousy work.

EDIT: At the risk of sounding extremely self-righteous (shit, maybe I am) this is the kind of film where when I'm confronted by people who like it, I question if I should find a different line of work.
17354.jpg
 
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Cpt-GargameL

Cpt-GargameL

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,024
I want these posters framed and hung

EGD6dGuVAAAZB0Y

EGEKFULU0AAcutX

EGEKGv0UcAE6Qby

EGEKH4uUUAABG8k

EGEKH6zU8AA928j


I've added a bunch to the OP under a spoiler tag if you guys want to check them out.
 

Deleted member 19218

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,323
I got three theories.

  1. He's thinking what he will do when he gets out.
  2. He's thinking of what he has done.
  3. He's thinking of what he'd like to do.
 

NotLiquid

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
34,755
This film was poorly constructed and plotted. Phoenix did better work in YOU WERE NEVER REALLY HERE.

I didn't expect much from Phillips, so I did not leave disappointed. The film was not deserving of the chatter surrounding it. Lousy work.

EDIT: At the risk of sounding extremely self-righteous (shit, maybe I am) this is the kind of film where when I'm confronted by people who like it, I question if I should find a different line of work.
You kinda sound like it but then again I've seen some posts railing against critics sounding equally as much so I guess it balances out.
 

Terranigma

Member
Oct 27, 2017
854
BTW, anyone else notice all the clocks (well the 3 that I noticed; in his social workers office, flash to the asylum, and the punch out machine) all were set to 11:11? Any significance?


Well, over here in the Netherlands, the 11th of the 11th month ( november 11) is the start of our Carnival season. Maybe related to Carnival? Where people put on carnivalesque/clownesque makeup?
 

Mr. Sam

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,031
I ultimately enjoyed it. I was surprised by just how heavily it borrowed from Taxi Driver and the King of Comedy and it felt very derivative at times. I also felt the film's arthouse trappings, wherein it was supposedly happy to be ethereal and for you to come to your own conclusions, were seriously undercut by the decision to do Fight Club flashbacks for the imaginary girlfriend reveal. I get it, he's delusional, you've been telegraphing this twist, you really don't have to take me by the hand.

This film was poorly constructed and plotted. Phoenix did better work in YOU WERE NEVER REALLY HERE.

I think of Phoenix's two recent odes to Taxi Driver, You Were Never Really Here is the better, but his best work was in Her and The Master.

Edit: For those not familar, Her is a film and The Master is a film. "Her and the Master", I realised, sounds like a film in its own right.
 

Ashtrax

Member
Oct 28, 2017
111
Melbourne, Australia
Absolutely loved this film, and thought it could have easily stood on its own without needing a major franchise to prop it up.

That aside, I felt it was just as much a film deconstructing Gotham City through the eyes of Arthur Fleck as it was an origin story of the Joker.
 

Yopis

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,767
East Coast
Best movie I have seen this year so far. Really impressed. Just curious though. Was the laugh he did due to the abuse? Or did he truly just find those things funny and accepted that by the end?
 

sophora

Member
Oct 29, 2017
328
Totally did not expect the choice of music for the stairway dancing scene, kinda killed the mood for me. Expected more classy old timey songs, not something you'd hear in a sports stadium. Thought the movie was okay, kind of left with a "so that was it?" feeling. Not worth the outrage but also the feels bland compared to the praise I see of it.