There's no stopping this train. People will have to deal with those kinds of feelings for at least another decade.
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John Woo fears Marvel movies ‘will make young audiences get lost when it comes to knowledge about film’
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There's no stopping this train. People will have to deal with those kinds of feelings for at least another decade.
Another director vs. MCU.
Okay who is it?
John Woo.
Wake me up when it's PTA.
John woo popularized (and helped create) a subgenre that fueled an entire country cinema industry for two decades and became a staples in composing film action worldwide. His impact on movie cinema in the last 30 years is as big as one could hope to have as a contemporary director.
When your brand gets insulted, shit gets personal thread of the week nr.: 3582667
Reporters have long since learned that questions like this will generate traffic. And like clockwork it goes on and on.
Reporters have long since learned that questions like this will generate traffic. And like clockwork it goes on and on.
Says the person not letting people enjoy what they want.
Meh, most Marvel movies and Disney films will all premiere on Disney+ and just leave "event" films like Avengers in Cinemas by 2028 I reckon, so you might get more room for other films soon.
I love his movies but, I mean, cmon. It's not like he was out there creating works of art that challenged viewers. Maybe why someone would wear that pin striped suit in The Killer would be the only question any of his films posed.....
OP
OP
Woo made The Killer in 1989 and Hard Boiled in 1992. At their time, they were great. Neither one holds up well. Since that time, he has made nothing but schlock and shit. The list of movies he directed look like late night sci fi channel garbage. They can be fun for what they are, but it sure is funny seeing him try and defend "cinema" when he is basically the Roger Corman of action movies.
Your anecdotal experience does not correlate with what's happening in broader term. People are going less and less to movie theaters and when they do, it's most often than not for a Disney or a Marvel movie.
That's more to do with the market then Disney or Marvel. Movies are expensive, dvd's are released much earlier now and streaming sites changed everything.
Maybe but none of it is helping independent and small scale movie to prosper.
Those people have always existed. This is not a new thing.
Calling someone "Roger Corman of action movies" sound like a huge compliment. There are few people that have had such a big influence on American cinema as Corman. He is also a very talented director. There is a reason why he was given an honorary Oscar.
Also, John Woo's Hong Kong work has aged like fine wine. The Killer is one of the greatest action films ever made.
Where does the sentiment come from that directors who are critizising marvel movies are jealous of their success? Those directors are or were very successful. I don't think they sit at dinnertable with all their awards in the background and think "oh man, I wish I was as good as those capeflics". Sorry, but for me this argument is totally unbelievable.
It's also not like they are trying to get Marvel movies abolished, they are expressing their opinions on a perceived shift (from their perspective) in the movie industry. Differantiation and genrefication was and will be always part of how we talk about art and media.
If you can't live with different opinions on a matter and only have to say ad hominem attacks like "ok, boomer" than you are not interested in an open and democratic discourse and - to be honest - I don't see why you are even responding.
It's also not like they are trying to get Marvel movies abolished, they are expressing their opinions on a perceived shift (from their perspective) in the movie industry. Differantiation and genrefication was and will be always part of how we talk about art and media.
If you can't live with different opinions on a matter and only have to say ad hominem attacks like "ok, boomer" than you are not interested in an open and democratic discourse and - to be honest - I don't see why you are even responding.
Felt like I read I different OP. Quote felt pretty benign and respectful of superhero movies if his recollection of speaking with Stan Lee is true.
Although I still don't get the emphasis on "real cinema". I do however think people should watch a variety of movies if that is what they are implying.
Although I still don't get the emphasis on "real cinema". I do however think people should watch a variety of movies if that is what they are implying.
People are going less and less to the movies because it's at least $20 a ticket. I was one of those people who only went to see blockbuster movies and waited until everything else released on blu-ray or Netflix. Since I subbed to AMC A-List in March, I've seen 46 movies in theaters. Even assuming every ticket is $20 (it's not) that is a little less than $1000.
Who has that kind of money?
I agree with you, but that means that instead of being a gateway to smaller movies, Marvel and Disney's movies are actually a direct competition to them. That was the point I was arguing at the start.
Your post reads like criticism until you get to the end and compare him to one of cinema's greatest and most prolific directors
Paycheck was boring but even his standard fare had more style and personality than 90% of his action contemporaries. He also correctly cast John Travolta twice in a row
Roger Corman is a legend due to his tenacity, business style, and his time in a very specific period of movie history, most definitely *not* for the quality of his pictures.
Movies about giant ants and a scientist turning into a fly ruined the integrity of film in the 1950s! It never recovered.
/s
Same old shit, different era.
Woo is honestly one of the last people that needs to try dunking on comic book movies, as he collected a lot of paychecks making slo-mo 90s action movies with hamfisted symbolism constantly shoved in.
Stay in your lane, Woo.
/s
Same old shit, different era.
Woo is honestly one of the last people that needs to try dunking on comic book movies, as he collected a lot of paychecks making slo-mo 90s action movies with hamfisted symbolism constantly shoved in.
Stay in your lane, Woo.
More people should watch it, yeah. It's a better movie than Hard Boiled. Probably Woo's best movie.
I would say it's his best one and also it's very different to his other films.
So is this something used to dismiss any argument, as long as it fits some age requirements, and of course without regarding the base of said argument ?
All these grouchy old directors are just making me hope phase 4 of the MCU is fucking massive, and I enjoy a lot of Scorsese movies. Woo's films a little less so.
I just don't get why they care so much. There has always been "blockbuster action movies" coming out alongside other movies, they were just soulless. I would argue that comic book movies have, generally speaking, added soul to the blockbuster genre, which is a big reason why they are so successful.
My issue with the "cinema" distinction is I'm not really sure what can be classified as cinema. Wolf of Wall Street isn't any less of an "amusement park ride" than Winter Soldier is. These quotes come across as jealous that they can't make this much money. Film literacy is fine. Film students and movie buffs will always be pretentious. There's room for guardians of the galaxy and Face/Off ;)
I just don't get why they care so much. There has always been "blockbuster action movies" coming out alongside other movies, they were just soulless. I would argue that comic book movies have, generally speaking, added soul to the blockbuster genre, which is a big reason why they are so successful.
My issue with the "cinema" distinction is I'm not really sure what can be classified as cinema. Wolf of Wall Street isn't any less of an "amusement park ride" than Winter Soldier is. These quotes come across as jealous that they can't make this much money. Film literacy is fine. Film students and movie buffs will always be pretentious. There's room for guardians of the galaxy and Face/Off ;)
All the priviledge in the world to be paid millions of dollars to make movies and these salty old motherfuckers are still bothered that some people are going to see other movies. It's annoys me, so I choose not to take them seriously and be dismissive.
lol this is my take on the matter. If anything has reeked of "movie-making by a committee" it's a lot of Disney's output TBH. But they're also just so fucking good at it that they will make pretty good films most of the time (basically how spending money to make money works).
I think it's going to change eventually; so I don't blame them for making hay while the sun shines.
I know that, but c'mon, his Hollywood shit doesn't help his case, no matter how many Nic Cage faces make that movie.
Are they complaining about all movies other than the ones they've made, or a very specific set of movies?
As someone who's getting older and grew up kinda smack in the middle of the transition films are experiencing now, I can see both sides.
People like Woo, Coppola, and Scorcese are used to a certain type of craftsmanship being involved in filmmaking. Building sets, hiring practical artists, and generally having to do a lot if not most of their shit by hand. Look at Coppola's insistence on using nothing but practical effects in Dracula. Lots of that shit is still mind-blowing. Or hell, the original Blade Runner.
The industry has moved to an almost entirely green-screen, assembly line model that takes a lot of the films out of the director's hands and puts it in the hands of a team behind a computer, creating the scenes based on early storyboards and actors playing off of screen partners that sometimes aren't even there. For older filmmakers not exactly interested in that type of work, it's some bizarre Frankenstein-like process they find repulsive. I'm speaking almost entirely of the blockbuster market here, there are plenty of films released weekly that don't fit that mold, they're just kind of overshadowed entirely by the ride of the week.
But that's what the current audience wants! I kind of fell out of Marvel a couple years back mostly out of fatigue and disinterest in where the stories were going, but I'm not going to say they're not cinema, they're just an evolution that some people aren't prepared for. I do feel like there's a lack of personality in a lot of big budget stuff these days, but that's a side effect of moving from hand-crafted everything to mostly CGI.
People like Woo, Coppola, and Scorcese are used to a certain type of craftsmanship being involved in filmmaking. Building sets, hiring practical artists, and generally having to do a lot if not most of their shit by hand. Look at Coppola's insistence on using nothing but practical effects in Dracula. Lots of that shit is still mind-blowing. Or hell, the original Blade Runner.
The industry has moved to an almost entirely green-screen, assembly line model that takes a lot of the films out of the director's hands and puts it in the hands of a team behind a computer, creating the scenes based on early storyboards and actors playing off of screen partners that sometimes aren't even there. For older filmmakers not exactly interested in that type of work, it's some bizarre Frankenstein-like process they find repulsive. I'm speaking almost entirely of the blockbuster market here, there are plenty of films released weekly that don't fit that mold, they're just kind of overshadowed entirely by the ride of the week.
But that's what the current audience wants! I kind of fell out of Marvel a couple years back mostly out of fatigue and disinterest in where the stories were going, but I'm not going to say they're not cinema, they're just an evolution that some people aren't prepared for. I do feel like there's a lack of personality in a lot of big budget stuff these days, but that's a side effect of moving from hand-crafted everything to mostly CGI.
I have nothing against Marvel or Disney films etc, I often go to the cinema to see them, but my one gripe is that they are effectively all that is shown at my local. There have been some pretty big films released over the years that havn't been shown, or relegated to the shit 2nd screen where I'm better of watching the film at home.
That was never the case. I'd be certain that the latest Cohen Brothers or Tarantino film would be shown, these days not so much. This isn't just a marvel vs art house argument for me, it's marvel vs all films. As for art house stuff I have to travel afar to see them. A shame. So I understand where Woo is coming from.
I would love to own a cinema. Would happily show marvel films (I enjoy them!) but I be damn sure I would try and cultivate an audience for lesser known films and classics
These guys are too old to have seen the cartoons/anime/comics people have grown up with. They really just have no clue there is an audience out there who loves expansive continuity and filling out a universe over hours and hours instead of trying to fit it all in 90 minutes.
I do feel like since the MCU happened, blockbuster franchise films have reached a new level in their size and dominance of the industry. Shit like Avengers, Endgame, and even the Fast & Furious franchise feel gargantuan even compared to the biggest blockbuster action movies of the 90's and 00's. The only things from decades before that really compare in terms of their dominance of the conversation are the Star Wars prequels. Maybe Lord of the Rings.
I guess you could put part of this on the theaters choosing to show big blockbusters on all their screens at the expense of smaller movies, but I don't know enough about the business to talk about that. I definitely agree streaming has changed the cost-benefit calculus in the eyes of the average consumer. Some people just need to recognize that consumer confidence these days hasn't risen in-step with production costs, the same thing is plaguing video games. People these days are more likely than in years past to go for what's cheaper and more accessible.
I'm not even sure how true that is though. I don't know how many people out there in the world back in the pre-Netflix days never saw certain movies until they made it to cable, or the home video bargain bin. On that note, the internet discourse has definitely given new light and weight to the opinions of people who were never film buffs and never really had a taste for much beyond action movies and comedies.
That brings up another question: where can you even stream Woo's HK movies?
If anything this makes him more worthy of critiquing what are basically just the latest wave of action movies.
I guess you could put part of this on the theaters choosing to show big blockbusters on all their screens at the expense of smaller movies, but I don't know enough about the business to talk about that. I definitely agree streaming has changed the cost-benefit calculus in the eyes of the average consumer. Some people just need to recognize that consumer confidence these days hasn't risen in-step with production costs, the same thing is plaguing video games. People these days are more likely than in years past to go for what's cheaper and more accessible.
I'm not even sure how true that is though. I don't know how many people out there in the world back in the pre-Netflix days never saw certain movies until they made it to cable, or the home video bargain bin. On that note, the internet discourse has definitely given new light and weight to the opinions of people who were never film buffs and never really had a taste for much beyond action movies and comedies.
That brings up another question: where can you even stream Woo's HK movies?
If anything this makes him more worthy of critiquing what are basically just the latest wave of action movies.
As long as Hollywood is happy making milquetoast films that satisfy Chinese investors, these big films will be fine for at least as long as we're willing to accept the truth of that relationship.
Imagine trying to dunk on woo, when all his action movies still have better presented and choreographed action than what Marvel has done over the course of a decade.
Nothing wrong with that though.
Instead of having badly explained discussions with yahoo friends. We know have English, Science, and Philosophy majors breaking down movies into a more tangible analysis and info you may have missed.
It makes a curious viewer into fans and allows everyone to become more knowledgable about what their watching.