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John Wick: Chapter 3 – Parabellum |OT| Si vis pacem, parabellum (Use Spoiler Tags)
- Thread starter SweetNicole
- Start date
I can't see Berry not being in the sequel after she let loose and only didn't kill the guy because Wick stopped her. She clearly is not ok with the Council but has to abide because of her daughter - it would be in her best interest to get out.
Enjoyed it as usual.
Lots more focus on hand to hand combat and knives then guns this time. Also alot more 1 on 1 or 2 fights. I loved Halle Berry her character. Expected a bigger role tho. Wouldnt mind a spin off with her character down the the line. She and those dogs were awesome.
That or the NBA guy who played the dude in the library who tries to kill him pre-Excommunicado, but then I don't really follow the sport at all.
2 > 1 > 3
Sad to say that I found this to be the weakest of the three. "Weakest of the three" means it's still an absolutely fantastic movie with some of the most brutal, intense, and funny set-pieces around, but man, the plot and pacing brought the film down for me. I'd say it peaked in the first act, with only a chunk of the finale reaching those heights again.
Sad to say that I found this to be the weakest of the three. "Weakest of the three" means it's still an absolutely fantastic movie with some of the most brutal, intense, and funny set-pieces around, but man, the plot and pacing brought the film down for me. I'd say it peaked in the first act, with only a chunk of the finale reaching those heights again.
- The first 30+ minutes, from the opening credits to Wick getting out of the city, was absolutely A+++ amazing. All the intensity and promise of JW2's ending carries through, and the action is just insane. The Good Bad Ugly homage was awesome, and the knife fight was easily one of the best set-pieces in the series. Learning more about Wick's past was intriguing as well. It's everything I wanted from this third movie
- But all the momentum of 2's ending and 3's beginning just takes a nosedive once he reaches Casablanca and the Adjudicator plot begins, and doesn't recover until the Continental attack starts. In the second movie, the Rome segment felt like a natural extension of the plot and pushed the overall action forward. The stakes and motivations were clear. The whole Casablanca section just felt meandering, the stuff with Bronn's character and the "Elder" was contrived and messy, the Adjudicator was an interesting idea but her role in the story felt tangential and her character was more annoying than intimidating.
- Berry's Sofia was a fantastic addition to the universe, but that whole shootout felt like its only purpose was to add another action scene. It was a great action scene for sure, especially with how the dogs were implemented, but it didn't have the sense of escalation and intensity as Wick in the catacombs during Chapter 2. It felt gratuitous in a way that none of the other action scenes in any of the three movies have.
- Wick, Winston, and the Continental against the High Table forces finally felt the movie getting back on track. That entire shootout against the squad, including the rearm and shotgun obliteration, was just insane. I loved it. The armored enemies were a cool wrinkle, and the underwater gunfight was just ingenious. Coming full circle and having the finale be an assault on the Continental was great.
- But then the finale being the extended melee battle through Dacascos' students and then the man himself was surprisingly disappointing. The fight with the Raid guys was the best part of that sequence; it was funny, well-paced, and like someone mentioned earlier, felt like a respectful nod between the two series. But overall that whole brawl through the Winston's glass office just went on and on and on, and the final fight with Dacascos was not as intense or exciting as I was hoping. Honestly, outside of the fight with the Raid stars, the brawls between Cassian in 2 were better IMO.
- I loved the world building in 1 and 2, but 3 was where it felt like too much. The Adjudicator as a concept, Sofia, and learning more about John's history was great, but everything else seemed too forced or too contrived, pushing the limits of even this heightened reality. Like the silencer shootout in 2 was a funny sequence, but the way in this movie that people get killed in crowded public places and no one reacts strained my suspension of disbelief.
- And then the ending. Winston shooting Wick to save him, which he clearly does rather than it being a legit betrayal, was fine. But Wick's fall was just so over-the-top that his survival was just ridiculous and that final scene with the Bowery King was such a terrible cliffhanger, like something shot at the last minute because they realized that they wanted to make more movies. It didn't feel natural at all, compared to 2's ending.
- But all the momentum of 2's ending and 3's beginning just takes a nosedive once he reaches Casablanca and the Adjudicator plot begins, and doesn't recover until the Continental attack starts. In the second movie, the Rome segment felt like a natural extension of the plot and pushed the overall action forward. The stakes and motivations were clear. The whole Casablanca section just felt meandering, the stuff with Bronn's character and the "Elder" was contrived and messy, the Adjudicator was an interesting idea but her role in the story felt tangential and her character was more annoying than intimidating.
- Berry's Sofia was a fantastic addition to the universe, but that whole shootout felt like its only purpose was to add another action scene. It was a great action scene for sure, especially with how the dogs were implemented, but it didn't have the sense of escalation and intensity as Wick in the catacombs during Chapter 2. It felt gratuitous in a way that none of the other action scenes in any of the three movies have.
- Wick, Winston, and the Continental against the High Table forces finally felt the movie getting back on track. That entire shootout against the squad, including the rearm and shotgun obliteration, was just insane. I loved it. The armored enemies were a cool wrinkle, and the underwater gunfight was just ingenious. Coming full circle and having the finale be an assault on the Continental was great.
- But then the finale being the extended melee battle through Dacascos' students and then the man himself was surprisingly disappointing. The fight with the Raid guys was the best part of that sequence; it was funny, well-paced, and like someone mentioned earlier, felt like a respectful nod between the two series. But overall that whole brawl through the Winston's glass office just went on and on and on, and the final fight with Dacascos was not as intense or exciting as I was hoping. Honestly, outside of the fight with the Raid stars, the brawls between Cassian in 2 were better IMO.
- I loved the world building in 1 and 2, but 3 was where it felt like too much. The Adjudicator as a concept, Sofia, and learning more about John's history was great, but everything else seemed too forced or too contrived, pushing the limits of even this heightened reality. Like the silencer shootout in 2 was a funny sequence, but the way in this movie that people get killed in crowded public places and no one reacts strained my suspension of disbelief.
- And then the ending. Winston shooting Wick to save him, which he clearly does rather than it being a legit betrayal, was fine. But Wick's fall was just so over-the-top that his survival was just ridiculous and that final scene with the Bowery King was such a terrible cliffhanger, like something shot at the last minute because they realized that they wanted to make more movies. It didn't feel natural at all, compared to 2's ending.
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Definitely better than 2, but 1 may still be my favorite. Still a little conflicted about the execution of the ending.
Winston got off his consequences rather easily...I was expecting him to either die for sure by the end of the movie or just go in hiding somehow. I heard Ian Mcshane wasn't going to be in the Continental tv series, so I thought that is how they were going to write off his character.
Hard to say where my ranking stand. It will become clearer on a second rewatch of the trilogy. But currently, I'd say:
1 > 2 > 3
1 was just sublime. A nice build up and pure power fantasy. John Wick was really the boogeyman.
2 was great. The first half he continued his meticulously well played assassinations with a nice taste of the assassin underworld. The later half he starts struggling, but it's a nice change of pace.
3 had the most brutal scenes of the trilogy. And while fantastic, I think it was just a bit too much of a struggle for me. The halfway stretch of the movie also felt a bit...meaningless. A few moments fell a little cheap/lucky:
Still, damn good movie. That first fight scene in the library ended in an absolutely amazing fashion. The entire cinema laughed their heads off.
1 > 2 > 3
1 was just sublime. A nice build up and pure power fantasy. John Wick was really the boogeyman.
2 was great. The first half he continued his meticulously well played assassinations with a nice taste of the assassin underworld. The later half he starts struggling, but it's a nice change of pace.
3 had the most brutal scenes of the trilogy. And while fantastic, I think it was just a bit too much of a struggle for me. The halfway stretch of the movie also felt a bit...meaningless. A few moments fell a little cheap/lucky:
John and his enemy both being out of bullets. It was hilarious, but John may have been beaten and he should have been counting his rounds. Also, the Japanese guys refusing to kill John on 2 occasions where he was beaten.
Still, damn good movie. That first fight scene in the library ended in an absolutely amazing fashion. The entire cinema laughed their heads off.
Heavy disagree. Everything was laid out by the characters before happening/appearing or are decent logical extrapolations of what we already knew.
For me, everything with Bronn's character, the Elder/boss above the table, the "I am of service"/"swearing fealty" stuff felt forced with how they were introduced, didn't feel like it flowed naturally as part of the narrative
Haven't seen the movie yet so I'm only posting this for a friend and not reading anything here.
He hasn't seen 1 or 2 and his wife bought tickets for them which start in about an hour. I told him he REALLY should know what happens at least at the end of 2 going into 3. For those who have seen it, is that the case or do they spend some time explaining that? If not, what would be a good thing for him to quickly read/watch in the next hour to get caught up?
He hasn't seen 1 or 2 and his wife bought tickets for them which start in about an hour. I told him he REALLY should know what happens at least at the end of 2 going into 3. For those who have seen it, is that the case or do they spend some time explaining that? If not, what would be a good thing for him to quickly read/watch in the next hour to get caught up?
I thought this was a sensational follow-up to the previous two films. Exactly the right mix of novelty, familiarity, self-referential bits, and subversion. The world building was choice, the twists and turns were well conceived and executed, and that Adjudicator lady was a super cool new ingredient in the mix with her awesome style and presence, and her interesting place in the lore.
However, and this is more than just quibble for me: the series' new fascination with gross-out gore is seriously off-putting. This was never part of the formula before.
In John Wick 3 we have:
- a graphically impaled eyeball
- a ripped off toenail
- a severed finger and cauterized stump
And more.
This adds nothing to John Wick's signature ballet of violence. It's lingering on nastiness for its own sake, which I think is just plain vulgar.
Anyway, great movie. The better sequel for sure, and John Wick 2 is smashing. What a shame I have to think twice about whether I want to own #3, just because I'm not keen to revisit the body horror.
However, and this is more than just quibble for me: the series' new fascination with gross-out gore is seriously off-putting. This was never part of the formula before.
In John Wick 3 we have:
- a graphically impaled eyeball
- a ripped off toenail
- a severed finger and cauterized stump
And more.
This adds nothing to John Wick's signature ballet of violence. It's lingering on nastiness for its own sake, which I think is just plain vulgar.
Anyway, great movie. The better sequel for sure, and John Wick 2 is smashing. What a shame I have to think twice about whether I want to own #3, just because I'm not keen to revisit the body horror.
I don't see how Bronn was more forced than any of the previous "higher ups".
Elder may be a bit fantastic, sure, but it's kinda the point with the whole desert motif and going to hell to reach heaven theme. Not only that, but it's a direct reference to the idea of assassins being the cult of Hassan, that the movie explains to you in case you are not familiar with.
Not sure how swearing fealty is any more absurd or forced than random people knowing about the assassin's underworld (like the cop in the first movie), recognizing the gold coins, the entire relationship of the Continental and its guests/staff, the baba yaga myth established early in the original and every piece of dialogue/setting with the russian mafia there, etc
Elder may be a bit fantastic, sure, but it's kinda the point with the whole desert motif and going to hell to reach heaven theme. Not only that, but it's a direct reference to the idea of assassins being the cult of Hassan, that the movie explains to you in case you are not familiar with.
Not sure how swearing fealty is any more absurd or forced than random people knowing about the assassin's underworld (like the cop in the first movie), recognizing the gold coins, the entire relationship of the Continental and its guests/staff, the baba yaga myth established early in the original and every piece of dialogue/setting with the russian mafia there, etc
Everything is bigger, more cryptic, more encompassing, but also perfectly fitting with previously established mythos.
Movie starts like 30min after the second and there's no explanation, you get thrown in chases and fights immediately.
Watch this:
It helps to know his relationships with the recurring characters. This movie builds off the previous two in smart and subtle ways.
Thanks, just forwarded that to him. I can't imagine going into the 3rd without seeing the first 2. I have to imagine you'd be quite lost...
Also, JW3 is such an organic extension of the other two movies that starting with it would be like starting a book with the third act. Why would you do that? You'd be missing so much context.
Also disagree with this lol
Every "ugliness" shown was made to reinforce a point in the overall text of the movie. The toenail is the perfect example.
We see the perfect ballet feet and this overall formal and refined setting starts to form - and then it's broken by the girl falling and showing the back tattoo. We now know what the place is, if we remember John's tattoo from the first movie.
She immediately has to rise and keep going, and in doing so, we can see how hurt her leg is.
There is no beauty here, there is suffering. Those people live in a very specific way to survive.
The point is explicitely said by the russian boss - art is pain, living is suffering. The traditionally beautiful and feminine ballet dressing room is once again broken by the toenail and how unflinched the dancer is in ripping it off.
The movie drives the point of living in an awful way but dressing up as something big, educated, important and polite multiple times. The assassins only exist and seem okay because of their strict rules. But they still are animals in a jungle, just lying to themselves. The rules are just a mask.
Thus, every scene building up expectations in a certain way and then breaking that with something nasty.
She immediately has to rise and keep going, and in doing so, we can see how hurt her leg is.
There is no beauty here, there is suffering. Those people live in a very specific way to survive.
The point is explicitely said by the russian boss - art is pain, living is suffering. The traditionally beautiful and feminine ballet dressing room is once again broken by the toenail and how unflinched the dancer is in ripping it off.
The movie drives the point of living in an awful way but dressing up as something big, educated, important and polite multiple times. The assassins only exist and seem okay because of their strict rules. But they still are animals in a jungle, just lying to themselves. The rules are just a mask.
Thus, every scene building up expectations in a certain way and then breaking that with something nasty.
Check the video in my previous post.
Loved it but man that third act was both good and long to the tooth, felt like a third act of a video game up to the final boss.
But man Winston just fucking over Wick is bullshit, felt like they needed to extend the series to one more movie and how the fuck did the Bowery King survive his cuts? Also, Wick's origin story is basically Black Widow's LOL.
I'll need to re-watch the first two, but it felt like the kill count was a bit too high to the point of absurdity. First one seemed the most grounded while this feels like it was ripped out of a comic book. Something akin to Wanted. I still liked it.
That could have been done in ways that ring true to the tone of the previous two movies.
Even having the exact same situations without the most graphic bits would have gotten the point across perfectly well. I'm sorry but gore in itself is not a necessary storytelling device for conveying ugliness. The specific shots that were used are not essential.
Sure, they could've told it in another way. But that's not a criticism, you can say that about anything. Personally I don't think it's too gory or nasty at all, specially when compared to other literature or cinema that explore such topics in depth.
I really, really disliked the story. Every time the main villain was offscreen I assume
There were some great action scenes though so it was a fun time.
My favorite reference:
she was sitting in a room alone with perfect posture smelling her own farts. What a dumb, unrealistic character with awful dialogue.
There were some great action scenes though so it was a fun time.
My favorite reference:
I thought it was good. Nothing really blew me away. Berry was good and the doggo stuff was good. Not a fan of the ending.
It surely is a criticism. I'm stating that the movie would have been better and more consistent with the rest of the series' treatment of violence without the distracting gore shots.
They are not to my taste and they add nothing to the movie that couldn't have been achieved with different angles or lighting. As a viewer it's perfectly valid for me to make this kind of aesthetic judgment. You need only look at the other two movies to see that the third overindulges in graphic suffering by the series' own standard.
I'm bringing this up because the gore made my experience noticeably worse. Every other aspect was great.
Saw it last night. Think I like 2 more, but I preffer 3 over 1. Felt 3 had a weaker plot and pacing but the action scenes were better and more varied in this film than any other.
The knife throwing fight was my favorite of the film, and while the final boss guy kinda came out of nowhere and was only ok as a fight, I liked that he was a total fanboy. Feels very fitting in the cultural environment we now live in.
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I totally agree. I thought the story went to some ridiculous places this time around (even more so than normal) and I enjoyed 2 the most out of the three, but the action sequences definitely upped the ante this time. The knife fight and the Raid fight were by far my favorites.
I really enjoyed it, but I did have a slight bit of disappointment. Still, I'm excited for Chapter 4.
I would love to go see it again when I don't have a couple sitting next to me talking through the whole goddamn movie though.
This was my rating for the same reasons. 2 > 3 > 1.
While 1s action scenes were cool at the time (still is) it just can't compete with 2, and especially 3 now. But it still has the strongest story while 3 is the best action with the weakest pacing and plot.
2 was the best balance imo.
I thought it was fucking great. My only gripe, really, is the plot:
They have John Wick running all the way to Casablanca and into the desert to find the Elder and...pledge his loyalty. Fucking cut off a finger and everything. Then he can just go back to the hotel and decide if he'll actually honor that loyalty. It makes no sense. Like, Winston just lets him in.
Seriously, though, the first movie's plot was so refreshingly simple compared to this one.
Seriously, though, the first movie's plot was so refreshingly simple compared to this one.
So, if you seen it and you're like me, loved the first movie, enjoyed the second one, how would you compare it to the other two?
I hope you guys don't really think
Winston betrayed John, the fact that he acted nonchalantly about the fact that he still lived. The fact that Charon said "well played sir". Its obvious that Winston is playing the long game, a war against the high table. Of course he will unleash the greatest assassin against them
Now is Jonathan Russian or Belarusian, his origin?. Because I believe i saw a reference to "Belarus" but he was in a Russian Church when he talked about his origin?
confused a bit
confused a bit
Felt a bit out of left field for John to entertain the thought of killing Winston. And didn't the second movie end with the idea of Winston starting a war with high table(who turns out to be a single person out in the desert?) And yet I feel the third movie still ending with the same idea but with Morpheus now
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