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Edward850

Software & Netcode Engineer at Nightdive Studios
Verified
Apr 5, 2019
990
New Zealand
which is why I'm going with what is by far the most likely explanation.
Not from what we typically see (just FYI our business is dealing with old games). It's usually licensing or hardware limitations/differences when it comes to specific asset changes. "we just felt like replacing all the sounds" is frankly something of an obscurity.
 
Nov 8, 2017
3,532
Not from what we typically see (just FYI our business is dealing with old games). It's usually licensing or hardware limitations/differences when it comes to specific asset changes. "we just felt like replacing all the sounds" is frankly something of an obscurity.
I already argued against "we just felt like replacing all the sounds" on the basis of being a pointless effort. My argument was for "we improved the game to make it a better experience", which is entirely plausible, as happens all the time these days with remakes and remasters.
 
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Edward850

Software & Netcode Engineer at Nightdive Studios
Verified
Apr 5, 2019
990
New Zealand
I already argued against "we just felt like replacing all the sounds" on the basis of being a pointless effort. My argument was for "we improved the game to make it a better experience", which is entirely plausible, as happens all the time these days with remakes and remasters.
I understand that you want to believe that's why they changed it, however that's just not we see from games in that era, I'm sorry. After all PSX Doom was a typical 1995 console port, not a remaster like we have now, and console ports changing things was almost always technical or legal.

The PSX sounds and music were also used in Doom64, so there's always the upcoming port to look forward to.
 
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Nov 8, 2017
3,532
I understand that you want to believe that's why they changed it, however that's just not we see from games in that era, I'm sorry. There's nothing further I'm able to add, it seems.
PS1 version also had coloured sectors, which means that someone went through the entire game to apply various different colours to the sectors throughout each map. That's not down to a licensing issue or hardware limitation. That's an improvement to the game that required additional effort to implement. So the evidence is there that they wanted to improve the game.
 
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Edward850

Software & Netcode Engineer at Nightdive Studios
Verified
Apr 5, 2019
990
New Zealand
PS1 version also had coloured sectors, which means that someone went through the entire game to apply various different colours to the sectors throughout each map. That's not down to a licensing issue or hardware limitation. That's an improvement to the game that required additional effort to implement. So the evidence is there that they wanted to improve the game.
It's still not immediately compatible with the original engine. You are very passionate about PSX doom, I'll give you that much, but it's just not the version of Doom that's been ported, nor the version compatible with all the addons. Either of us could argue the semantics of why these changes were made until we are ue in the face, but it doesn't change the technical problems and incompatibilities. There's no reverb, no way to support the lighting, the music format isn't fully known, there's very likely no source code either.
 
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Nov 8, 2017
13,086
Yea I was just reading up on that. That makes things a lot more complicated. Seems like half of the graphics (UI) also was made for 4:3 stretching and some of it (like the enemies) are not. Wow.

Reminds me of the SNES. Pixel perfect outputs at true native res look sharp but while art was authored at 8:7, it was displayed at 4:3 or similar on everyone's TVs, so a stretched output is more authentic.
 

Dussck

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,136
The Netherlands
Wouldn't it be best to scale it up without filtering to 4x, then you have a 1280x800 resolution. Crop 40 pixels from the bottom and top to get to a 1280x720 16:9 aspect, then rerender the UI on top without stretching (add more pixels on the left and right side to complete the bar)?
 

Pargon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,988
...Or you can just use Doomsday and render the games in native display resolution without any rescaling.
I just checked, and it has your typical improper scaling of the game sprites. They don't even have the default FOV set correctly if you output 16:9 (which it does by default).


Wouldn't it be best to scale it up without filtering to 4x, then you have a 1280x800 resolution. Crop 40 pixels from the bottom and top to get to a 1280x720 16:9 aspect, then rerender the UI on top without stretching (add more pixels on the left and right side to complete the bar)?
That only works to fill the display if you don't care about the aspect ratio.


Yea I was just reading up on that. That makes things a lot more complicated. Seems like half of the graphics (UI) also was made for 4:3 stretching and some of it (like the enemies) are not. Wow.
It was a non-issue on CRTs, since they didn't have to rescale the image like modern fixed-pixel displays do. They just drew it to fit the display (which was 4:3).

I already argued against "we just felt like replacing all the sounds" on the basis of being a pointless effort. My argument was for "we improved the game to make it a better experience", which is entirely plausible, as happens all the time these days with remakes and remasters.
You're going to have to accept that PSX DOOM is a different game from DOOM and not what the majority of people played.
Perhaps it wouldn't be difficult to port over the audio changes, but the lighting/engine changes are not going to be trivial since it's a unique version of the game rather than the DOOM everyone knows and loves.
That's not to say it shouldn't be brought to a modern DOOM collection, but I certainly wouldn't expect that to be the default anywhere.

Also, most changes included in "remasters" of games these days are considered to be worse than the original release - as was the case with PSX DOOM.
 

bmfrosty

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,894
SF Bay Area
No, people frequently picked 1280x1024 on CRTs but it was the wrong aspect ratio. Proper 4:3 is 1280x960 which the CRT normally supports just fine.

I think 1280x1024 (5:4...which is not equal to 4:3) was only around because of early TFT LCD screens that used it.
I never ran that on a LCD. Always a CRT and it was common. Never remember 1280*960 offered on those monitors.
 

JustinH

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,389
...Or you can just use Doomsday and render the games in native display resolution without any rescaling.
Interesting. I'd never heard of Doomsday so I downloaded it and played a couple levels (M01 and M02 from Doom 2 and E1M1-E1M4b including the secret level).
Ehh... I think I'll stick with Zandronum and Chocolate Doom. I don't know if I'm doing something wrong, but the "objects" (enemies, doors, buttons, barrels) look blurry as hell, and it has some dumb looking "new explosions" in it.
 
Nov 8, 2017
13,086
They did. You made a mistake and selected the wrong resolution.

I actually had issues running Doom 2016 at that resolution on a CRT monitor I've been playing around with. The game acknowledges it but the screen just won't work on it.

I'm sure it worked on some monitors, but at least on mine it doesn't, and I had to go either 1024x768 or 1280x1024.
 

Pargon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,988
I actually had issues running Doom 2016 at that resolution on a CRT monitor I've been playing around with. The game acknowledges it but the screen just won't work on it.

I'm sure it worked on some monitors, but at least on mine it doesn't, and I had to go either 1024x768 or 1280x1024.
Multi-Sync CRT monitors don't care what resolution you send them if it's within the scan rate limits. That's how people are using resolutions like 3840x240 for emulation.
Back in the day monitors would come with a .inf file (driver) that would tell Windows the supported resolutions and refresh rates - so perhaps that's why it may not have worked out of the box on a more modern system.
Without an INF file installed, perhaps the refresh rate was set too high for 1280x960 but it dropped lower at 1280x1024 for example. I guarantee that if it'll do 1280x1024 it can also do 1280x960.
 

GreenMonkey

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,861
Michigan
Multi-Sync CRT monitors don't care what resolution you send them if it's within the scan rate limits. That's how people are using resolutions like 3840x240 for emulation.
Back in the day monitors would come with a .inf file (driver) that would tell Windows the supported resolutions and refresh rates - so perhaps that's why it may not have worked out of the box on a more modern system.
Without an INF file installed, perhaps the refresh rate was set too high for 1280x960 but it dropped lower at 1280x1024 for example. I guarantee that if it'll do 1280x1024 it can also do 1280x960.
Never saw a CRT that didn't support 1280x960. And I used a ton of different cheap CRTs working in IT in the 2000s.

Some games didn't have it though. I don't think you needed an INF for game resolutions for Win95/98 but I could be wrong, it has been a long time.

Most people just (wrongly) picked 1280x1024.
 

Pargon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,988
Never saw a CRT that didn't support 1280x960. And I used a ton of different cheap CRTs working in IT in the 2000s.
Some games didn't have it though. I don't think you needed an INF for game resolutions for Win95/98 but I could be wrong, it has been a long time.
Most people just (wrongly) picked 1280x1024.
As I said, I can see a scenario where Windows or the GPU maybe thought it could do something like 1280x960 at 80Hz and 1280x1024 at 75Hz , but actually the monitor could only do 75Hz for both - so 1280x1024 would work in a game (which tends to select the highest refresh rate) but 1280x960 would not.
And that is more likely if someone hooked it up to a modern computer without installing a "driver" (INF file) for it. Who would think to install a driver for a monitor these days?

But any CRT which can do 1280x1024 will also be able to display 1280x960 - after all, that would be the correct resolution for the monitor, since it's 4:3.
 

dgrdsv

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,833
Interesting. I'd never heard of Doomsday so I downloaded it and played a couple levels (M01 and M02 from Doom 2 and E1M1-E1M4b including the secret level).
Ehh... I think I'll stick with Zandronum and Chocolate Doom. I don't know if I'm doing something wrong, but the "objects" (enemies, doors, buttons, barrels) look blurry as hell, and it has some dumb looking "new explosions" in it.
You can turn off pretty much everything which is added over classic rendering in Doomsday. I remember trying Chocolate Doom some years ago and it wasn't to my taste. I always prefer visual upgrades which are true to original style over "preservation of these large pixels I remember from my youth days".