John Kasich, former Republican gov. of Ohio, expected to speak at Democratic National Convention

[PHOENIXZERO]

Biden doesn't just need to beat Trump, he needs to do it in a landslide and the closer it gets to that the better. Anywhere it's even remotely close is going to lead to Trump and the Trumpers of the GOP fighting tooth and nail to try and undermine the election whether it's through the courts or their media, which okay they're going to do anyway no matter the vote totals.

 

[TorianElecdra]

What, are people suddenly not going to vote for Biden once they learn Kasich is speaking at the DNC lol?

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He is irrelevant. It's the message of yet again Dems trying to decide these mythical moderate GOP voters yet again. I don't think it has ever worked outside of Bill Clinton?

 

[RussTC3]

Nifty.

Side note, I wish Howard Stern would've gone through w/ his initial plan for speaking at the RNC in 2016

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That was never his plan. Where did you hear that? Trump asked him and Stern said no, that he couldn't vote for him because he didn't agree with anything he was spewing. And that he supported and was going to vote for Clinton.

 

[davepoobond]

technically im not against republicans speaking at the DNC if they want to

but John Kasich is such a huge weirdo, i'm not sure how this is really going to benefit once he's actually talking for more than 1 minute

 

[infamous5445]

He is irrelevant. It's the message of yet again Dems trying to decide these mythical moderate GOP voters yet again. I don't think it has ever worked outside of Bill Clinton?

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Who's saying he's going to be irrelevant in Ohio? Polls show a close race right now.

 

[sangreal]

there will be tons of speakers. If one doesn't interest you, just skip it. Even easier since it'll be virtual

Bloomberg spoke in 2016 and I couldn't tell you a single word that he said

 

[PHOENIXZERO]

Biden doesn't just need to beat Trump, he needs to do it in a landslide and the closer it gets to that the better. Anywhere it's even remotely close is going to lead to Trump and the Trumpers arguing/fighting tooth and nail to undermine and invalidate the election whether it's through the courts or their media, which okay they're going to do anyway no matter the vote totals like they did in 2016 and still do even though Trump won but lost the popular vote.

 

[shinobi602]

Whatever it fucking takes.

 

[Poodlestrike]

TBH it's kind of cheesy in a Sorkinesque way but I don't mind it that much. Don't give them an ounce of power, but hey, if they're willing to put in some work, let 'em put in some work.

 

[game-biz]

This is good. Great even. The more the better.

 

[Sordid Plebeian]

Trump can't just lose, his ideology has to as well. Whatever it takes.

 

[Watershed]

This happens every 4 years at every DNC and RNC. It's pure political tokenizing on both sides. Does anyone here remember Artur Davis? David Clarke? Jim Leach? Zell Miller? These from-the-other-party convention speakers have no impact on the platform whatsoever. They're about as influential as Clint Eastwood talking to an empty chair. It's just political clockwork.

 

[TooBusyLookinGud]

Whatever it fucking takes.

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.

 

[The Albatross]

This happens every 4 years at every DNC and RNC. It's pure political tokenizing on both sides. Does anyone here remember Artur Davis? David Clarke? Jim Leach? Zell Miller? These from-the-other-party convention speakers have no impact on the platform whatsoever. They're about as influential as Clint Eastwood talking to an empty chair. It's just political clockwork.

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I don't think it'll have any affect on the platform (eg like... Kasich isn't going to suddenly be crafting the democratic party platform or something) but Kasich is a much bigger get than any of those people. He was a top candidate for the GOP ticket in 2016, one of the most popular republican governors, and someone who is still popular in a critical swing state.

I think the closest approximation is Colin Powell endorsing Obama in 2008. Powell didn't speak at the convention tho iirc

Biden is getting a lot of apostates tho. More defections than any other president that I can remember.

 

[Ecotic]

It's not just Ohio, this will play well across the whole Midwest swing states. Which is good, because I really don't think Ohio will go for Biden, it's just moved too far to the right. The race will tighten by about 4 points nationally as we get closer to election day, and what will be in contention will be only Michigan, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Florida, Arizona, and maybe North Carolina.

 

[Statik]

Why are "swing" voters always framed as disaffected Republicans that can be converted to Democrats? What about the many progressives who will probably sit out this election if Biden doesn't make a strong enough appeal to the left? I just think we have a lot more to gain by making this platform the most progressive in our lifetime instead of courting assistance from the likes of John Kasich, whose tenure as governor of Ohio included policy that any progressive would find abhorrent. This just strikes me more tone deaf decision making by the DNC. Like, read the room.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

I find the Rogan deflection disingenuous. Having one opponent endorse you at your convention of 200 speakers, is not the same as going to appear on an opponent's platform for a friendly one on one. It's not even a clear 'one is better than the other'. They're two very different situations, with two very different messages.

The message of the former is very clearly "even people we don't normally agree with us want us to win." The latter's message is "let's reach out to people who don't like us and sway them." Whether you have a problem with one is not indicative of you having a problem with the other. And neither is a fcking concession of your political stances or morals. I wish progressives and moderates alike would understand this fallacy, and stop trying to pull dumb "gotcha!" moments.

Both are a clear attempts at pushing shit left.

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Amen.

 

[Captain of Outer Space]

As an Ohioan:

 

[skeezx]

What about the many progressives who will probably sit out this election if Biden doesn't make a strong enough appeal to the left?

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that's like 1/8th of the democrat/'potential biden voter' base, if that

not that that's a 'good' thing but is what it is

 

[oofouchugh]

Just reinforces to me that there needs to be a separate progressive party if anything is ever going to change in this country.

 

[rokkerkory]

Just reinforces to me that there needs to be a separate progressive party if anything is ever going to change in this country.

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Yes but one step at a time.

 

[Futureman]

Why are "swing" voters always framed as disaffected Republicans that can be converted to Democrats? What about the many progressives who will probably sit out this election if Biden doesn't make a strong enough appeal to the left? I just think we have a lot more to gain by making this platform the most progressive in our lifetime instead of courting assistance from the likes of John Kasich, whose tenure as governor of Ohio included policy that any progressive would find abhorrent. This just strikes me more tone deaf decision making by the DNC. Like, read the room.

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Biden is more of a moderate so it makes sense. Some of the stuff he's doing with Bernie looks good though, climate plan was well received, black female SC Justice, female VP is appealing to people who lean more left. He's probably going to keep trying to appeal to both groups so don't be surprised.

 

[Rran]

That was never his plan. Where did you hear that? Trump asked him and Stern said no, that he couldn't vote for him because he didn't agree with anything he was spewing. And that he supported and was going to vote for Clinton.

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From Howard Stern lol

He said he contemplated speaking at the RNC to tell everyone they should vote for Clinton

 

[The Albatross]

Thought this was a good article:

What Kasich Gives Biden

The Republican ex-governor amplifies the Democratic candidate’s remarkably simple message to voters.

www.theatlantic.com

But, every now and then, a partisan defector perfectly amplifies the message his endorsee is trying to send. Joe Biden is running against an incumbent who appears largely unperturbed by the death of 140,000 of his fellow Americans, except to the extent that it hurts his reelection prospects. The former vice president's core message is that, unlike Donald Trump, he will put country above party and human compassion over political self-interest. The simplicity, even corniness, of this message wins Biden few points for cleverness among pundits. But polls suggest that it resonates with voters. And Kasich, because of his own political and personal journey, underscores that message in a unique way.

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That's the way Kasich speaks too. Like Biden, Kasich hails from blue-collar Pennsylvania. Like Biden, he's a former Washington dealmaker. But, most important, Kasich has in recent years made empathy central to his political identity. As he declared during a 2016 GOP debate, "people have accused me of, at times, having too big a heart."

Like Biden, Kasich speaks about public policy in strikingly personal ways. In 2013, he defied Republican orthodoxy by accepting the money offered by the Affordable Care Act to expand Medicaid in Ohio. He justified that position by imagining an encounter with his Maker. "When you die and get to the meeting with Saint Peter, he's probably not going to ask you much about what you did about keeping government small," Kasich declared. "But he is going to ask you what you did for the poor."

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For progressives angry that the Biden campaign is giving Kasich a platform, the former governor's hostility to abortion and labor rights belies this benevolent rhetoric. But cross-party appeals couched in the language of human decency fit the message of Biden's campaign. In 2016, Trump used rage to try to prove to Americans (especially white ones) that he identified with their hardships. Now, as COVID-19 surges in state after state and the unemployment rate remains in the double digits, Biden is trying to take the same approach using his personal suffering. He's offering his own wounded resilience as a model for the nation as a whole.

That's not likely to impress the left, which is less concerned with whether Biden can feel America's pain than whether he has a transformational agenda to address it. But for some current and former Republicans—skeptical of socialism but disgusted by Trump's pitiless narcissism—a message of bipartisan, ideologically flexible compassion has deep appeal. By asking Kasich to speak at the Democratic convention, Biden is making him his emissary to those voters. He couldn't have made a better choice.

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[The Albatross]

Kasich confirmed he'd be endorsing Biden in an OpEd in the Boston Globe this morning:

Enough is enough. There’s a better path forward for America - The Boston Globe

A nation that’s lost its way needs to reject the division and anger that have taken us down this sorry road.

www.bostonglobe.com

Also this article from NYMag about why partisans on the right and, more surprisingly, the left are upset that Kasich is endorsing Biden is a good take

Why Is the Left Angry at Republicans Working to Elect Joe Biden?

The strange backlash against the anti-Trump right.

nymag.com

Conservatives are always looking for converts, the old saying goes, while liberals are always looking for heretics.

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The purpose of both the Lincoln Project campaign and Kasich's speech is to highlight intraparty disaffection with Trump and create a permission structure for Republican voters to support Biden. Shephard dismisses this objective on the grounds that "there are few of the voters the Lincoln Project aims to win over to begin with. A New York Times analysis found that 86 percent of the president's 2016 voters are committed to voting for him again." That figure is apparently intended to sound imposing, but Trump's extraordinarily narrow margin of victory would make any slippage, even into the mid-90s, dangerous to his reelection.

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I also had no idea about this historically:

"Even when Herbert Hoover went from a 40-state landslide victory in 1928 to a six-state landslide defeat four years later, he retained almost three-quarters of his support. Losing a few percentage points of your vote is extremely significant."

This opinion piece makes several assertions, and I agree with all of them:

• The election isn't locked up. Biden is leading according to polls but nobody should take that for granted. I've long made this case about the "permission structure," especially when cultists are trying to be deprogrammed from their cult. A trusted person telling them, "This is okay" is often the first step people need to deprogram.
• The premise that groups like the Lincoln Project or individuals like Kasich are looking to influence the Democratic platform to be more conservative is ridiculous
• GRoups like TLP or Kasich very well may oppose policy Biden puts forward once he's president. THey may work against him if he can defeat Trump. This shouldn't surprise anybody and this is also a contradiction of the last bullet.
• The left flank of the Democratic party is justifiably upset that former conservatives are voting for and may join the Democratic party, as a large exodus of Republicans to Democrats could pull the party back towards the center where it has been drifting more to the left over the last 4-6 years.

Regarding that last point, I don't think it's a valid concern. The Democratic party could become a left flank party, but if they're outnumbered in congress, the white house, and the Supreme Court because the party lacks majority building, then none of those more left-leaning prescriptions will ever become policy.

 

[Soul Skater]

Forget it

 

[Deleted member 31923]

Kasich confirmed he'd be endorsing Biden in an OpEd in the Boston Globe this morning:

Enough is enough. There’s a better path forward for America - The Boston Globe

A nation that’s lost its way needs to reject the division and anger that have taken us down this sorry road.

www.bostonglobe.com

Also this article from NYMag about why partisans on the right and, more surprisingly, the left are upset that Kasich is endorsing Biden is a good take

Why Is the Left Angry at Republicans Working to Elect Joe Biden?

The strange backlash against the anti-Trump right.

nymag.com

I also had no idea about this historically:

"Even when Herbert Hoover went from a 40-state landslide victory in 1928 to a six-state landslide defeat four years later, he retained almost three-quarters of his support. Losing a few percentage points of your vote is extremely significant."

This opinion piece makes several assertions, and I agree with all of them:

• The election isn't locked up. Biden is leading according to polls but nobody should take that for granted. I've long made this case about the "permission structure," especially when cultists are trying to be deprogrammed from their cult. A trusted person telling them, "This is okay" is often the first step people need to deprogram.
• The premise that groups like the Lincoln Project or individuals like Kasich are looking to influence the Democratic platform to be more conservative is ridiculous
• GRoups like TLP or Kasich very well may oppose policy Biden puts forward once he's president. THey may work against him if he can defeat Trump. This shouldn't surprise anybody and this is also a contradiction of the last bullet.
• The left flank of the Democratic party is justifiably upset that former conservatives are voting for and may join the Democratic party, as a large exodus of Republicans to Democrats could pull the party back towards the center where it has been drifting more to the left over the last 4-6 years.

Regarding that last point, I don't think it's a valid concern. The Democratic party could become a left flank party, but if they're outnumbered in congress, the white house, and the Supreme Court because the party lacks majority building, then none of those more left-leaning prescriptions will ever become policy.

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Interesting stuff. Here's a new poll from Rasmussen, yes Rasmussen showing Biden up four in Ohio. So add a few points to account for Rasmussen's bias and that's one of Biden's better polls in Ohio. I also note that nowhere on Rasmussen's site can you find this poll that I saw, same with the poll showing Biden up 10 nationally. But they highlighted a second poll showing Biden up only 3 nationally. So not only are they biased in their polling, but they try to hide/downplay any polls that are more favorable to Biden. Nate Silver was mentioning Gravis doing the same thing. They released polls under their name and OAN that were more favorable to Trump, but released polls that were favorable to Biden on their own. Very shady.

RealClearPolitics - Election 2020 - Ohio: Trump vs. Biden

RealClearPolitics - Election 2020 - Ohio: Trump vs. Biden

www.realclearpolitics.com

 

[BringBackSonics]

That's a really good article by the Atlantic

 

[beansontoast]

He is irrelevant. It's the message of yet again Dems trying to decide these mythical moderate GOP voters yet again. I don't think it has ever worked outside of Bill Clinton?

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'Mythical moderate GOP voters', that implies you don't think broadly republican aligned swing voters exist? I mean they clearly do? People who are considering voting for Trump clearly come in various shades of enthusiasm, just like they do for Biden. And similarly to Biden there are many who recognise that Trump has flaws (to put it mildly) and don't like those aspects of his presidency, but on balance think he is better than the alternative. People like Kasich might be able to help change the perception of the tipping point of that balance for many of those soft republican voters. If they want to win convincingly, the Democrats need to convince the wavering Trump voters out there that his tax/small government agenda or whatever is not worth supporting at the expense of their misgivings about his racism, corruption and manifest unsuitability for the presidency. Obviously we'd all like a world where people don't need to be convinced that no putting a racist idiot in the Oval office is not worth a tax cut, but it is what it is.

 

[Cipherr]

its always shocking to me that liberals are able to flip from "you need to vote so that we stop this religious zealot from taking over the country" to "hell yeah lets have him on stage and on the cabinet! #E3Moments" in less than a decade

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Wait what? Im genuinely asking here... Who is asking for Kasich to be on Bidens Cabinet?

Why are "swing" voters always framed as disaffected Republicans that can be converted to Democrats? What about the many progressives who will probably sit out this election if Biden doesn't make a strong enough appeal to the left? I just think we have a lot more to gain by making this platform the most progressive in our lifetime instead of courting assistance from the likes of John Kasich, whose tenure as governor of Ohio included policy that any progressive would find abhorrent. This just strikes me more tone deaf decision making by the DNC. Like, read the room.

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Reading the room tells you the people you are speaking of won't and don't vote even when they have a shot at getting the candidate that best represents them into the general, and that THESE people this bit of political theatre are targeting... do.

They ARE reading the room.

Write a better story next time. And I mean that in the kindest way possible.

 

[Statik]

Reading the room tells you the people you are speaking of won't and don't vote even when they have a shot at getting the candidate that best represents them into the general, and that THESE people this bit of political theatre are targeting... do.

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I'm not even the biggest fan of Bernie, but voter turnout across the board was down during this primary. Additionally, black support for Bernie was low, not simply because of older black voters leaning towards Biden , or Warren peeling away some of his support, but because of Bernie's own missteps with regards to policy targeting systemic racism. There were also less caucuses than there were in 2016. Much of the low turnout can also be attributed to the pandemic, so that deserves a mention, but Bernie and choices he made certainly shoulders much of the blame.

However, we're discussing the general election, and Democrats have struggled with motivating them to come out and vote for decades, with the exception of 2008, in which a black man ran what seemed to be a transformative campaign of the change progressives have pined for. Obviously, it didn't turn out how we expected, but that's neither here nor there.
Biden, on the cusp of the most important election in modern American history (maybe all of American history? I'm sure some could make an argument, given the threat to the world a second Trump presidency poses, that it is), can appeal to the progressive wing of the party, along with the black youth who are now filling the streets of America in what can only be called an uprising to overturn the unlawful institution of policing as we know it. The moderates are already going to vote for him. So, having someone like Kasich doesn't aid his cause. Most Republicans are not going to vote for Biden. They just aren't. But, millions of progressives/leftists who've tired of the equivocating stance of the DNC and the candidates it backs are ripe for the picking, just waiting to be given a reason to pull the lever for this reconstructed Democrat with a history of racism. Putting Kasich on the stage just tells them that the DNC still doesn't get it and that they do not read the room.

 

[Cipherr]

I'm not even the biggest fan of Bernie, but voter turnout across the board was down during this primary. Additionally, black support for Bernie was low, not simply because of older black voters leaning towards Biden , or Warren peeling away some of his support, but because of Bernie's own missteps with regards to policy targeting systemic racism. There were also less caucuses than there were in 2016. Much of the low turnout can also be attributed to the pandemic, so that deserves a mention, but Bernie and choices he made certainly shoulders much of the blame.

However, we're discussing the general election, and Democrats have struggled with motivating them to come out and vote for decades, with the exception of 2008, in which a black man ran what seemed to be a transformative campaign of the change progressives have pined for. Obviously, it didn't turn out how we expected, but that's neither here nor there.
Biden, on the cusp of the most important election in modern American history (maybe all of American history? I'm sure some could make an argument, given the threat to the world a second Trump presidency poses, that it is), can appeal to the progressive wing of the party, along with the black youth who are now filling the streets of America in what can only be called an uprising to overturn the unlawful institution of policing as we know it. The moderates are already going to vote for him. So, having someone like Kasich doesn't aid his cause. Most Republicans are not going to vote for Biden. They just aren't. But, millions of progressives/leftists who've tired of the equivocating stance of the DNC and the candidates it backs are ripe for the picking, just waiting to be given a reason to pull the lever for this reconstructed Democrat with a history of racism. Putting Kasich on the stage just tells them that the DNC still doesn't get it and that they do not read the room.

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Honestly man, its interesting that you lay it out this way... Because its playing out the exact opposite way according to data:

Who's behind Trump's big polling deficit? Two key groups defecting to Biden.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/who-s-behind-trump-s-big-polling-deficit-two-key-n1234605 Die for the economy if old.

www.resetera.com

Who's behind Trump's big polling deficit? Two key groups defecting to Biden

Seniors and college-educated whites are fueling a surge in Joe Biden's numbers.

www.nbcnews.com

Much in the same way, the 2020 election is currently on track to see mass defections of the remaining white professional members of the Republican coalition to Biden — a trend disproportionately playing out in the suburbs, where those voters tend to live.

In an average of nine live-interview national surveys conducted since the start of June, Biden is clobbering Trump 58 percent to 37 percent among whites with college degrees, more than double Clinton's 51 percent to 42 percent lead among that group in 2016, according to the Cooperative Congressional Election Study, a nationally representative sample of 64,600 adults.

Biden has also modestly cut Trump's lead among whites without degrees. Trump now leads Biden 55 percent to 37 percent in that group; in 2016, Trump led Clinton 59 percent to 35 percent among the same group.

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Even more dramatically, Biden has reversed Trump's 2016 lead among voters age 65 and older. In 2016, Trump carried seniors 56 percent to 41 percent, according to the CCES data. But Biden, who carried seniors overwhelmingly in the Democratic primaries, leads Trump 50 percent to 45 percent among the oldest voters in the average of current polls.

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Trump's erosion among college-educated white voters helps explain why Biden is polling so competitively in Texas and Georgia, traditionally GOP states with vast numbers of suburban white professionals who supported Trump in 2016. It also tracks with congressional district-level polling showing Trump's numbers weighing down Republican candidates in traditionally GOP-leaning suburbs near cities like Indianapolis, St. Louis, Cincinnati and Omaha.

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I think you are wrong, on both counts. And the data backs it. From what I'm seeing, a lot of borderline previously Republican voters that aren't deep deep hardline red voters are actually open to flipping to Biden.

And that the far left that never wanted Biden to win the nomination ALREADY thinks and feels the DNC "doesn't get it". So Kasich getting on stage to denounce Trump doesn't move the needle for them at all. It was never going to move that needle. Their minds are made up and have been forever. But this other sect of typically Republican voting College Educated white voters are literally ripe for the picking.


Like I said, they literally are reading the room. It just doesn't say what you think it does according to any data out there.

We will see soon enough though. Ohio will be one to watch.... The entry polls and the actuals should give us more info. Hillary lost because she ignore certain spaces, places and didn't attempt to close every window and every door. Bidens campaign seems hell bent on not letting that happen.

 

[Imperfected]

Finally getting that Overton window rebound?

 

[Josh5890]

That is a good endorsement for Biden. Even if Ohio goes to Trump, keeping the state competitive will force Trump's campaign to spend more money in that state.