This is the reason I have gone ps5 as my main platform, unnoticeable graphical differences will not matter I just want to get into the game quicker.
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John (Digital Foundry) on PS5: ''Just talking to developers...I think people will be surprised in a good way about the PS5''
- Thread starter Uzupedro
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This was my line of thinking too.
I think right now, is the time to put expectations in check about the biggest differences between the two consoles.
I don't think we should assume that, MS had already released the die shot and architecture papers that include cache sizes, so unless they skipped on mentioning a big L3 cache for the GPU and obscured it in their die shot somehow then i'd guess it does not feature the infinity cache.
As for the PS5, honestly i dont know, but if the series x doesn"t feature IC, then it is likely that PS5 does not feature it either, but at the same time, in the Road to PS5 video, Cerny has mentioned that one of the focuses that AMD had with RDNA2 is getting the data closer to where its needed (the closer it is, the less GPU stalling time is wasted), and the Infinity Cache would be the most fitting explanation for that (could argue that its about SSD access but the drive is still the furthest point that data can be in, so more cache is more sensible). Still, until Sony or AMD states otherwise, I would assume that the PS5 does not feature it either (could be that IC is only for AMD's big Navi GPU).
Well its not like Xbox has a HDD. I doubt load times will be an issue on either.
I think when Sonys studios has had time to optimise their engines around this fast IO as a baseline, that's when we see the true benefit of their SSD advantage.
Not just first party either, I think UE5 might very well do certain tasks better on PS5.
Why would it not be threadworthy? If it wasn't surely there would be no posts and it would drop off the front page?
Returning to the topic, I'm sure people will be surprised how close these two consoles are to each other in actual performance.
It'll be interesting to see the face offs, can't wait to see people try to pick the bones out of "Dynamic 4k" does the res change each frame? Are they utilising VRS? Temporal Injection? Checkerboard?
Both consoles will be fantastic.
Imagine if they did 1440p TV instead, best solution in term of res and performance. 4K Is A Waste.
That might be true for the beginning of the generation with cross gen games and early gen games but the difference will show at the middle and the end of the generation like the One X and the pro
Apologies if this is a stupid question, but is there a chance the PS5's SSD speed can be used to actually help performance?
Like, say in one area of a game on Xbox/PC, it normally loads 5 room at once, the PS5 only loads 3 since it can load additional ones so fast, meaning the game can render a lot less content at once?
Like, say in one area of a game on Xbox/PC, it normally loads 5 room at once, the PS5 only loads 3 since it can load additional ones so fast, meaning the game can render a lot less content at once?
The gap between the One X and the PS4Pro is much bigger than the gap between the XsX and the PS5. That said, there will be some differences on a case by case basis.
If a vague statement like "you will be surprised" is fueling console wars, I don't think that's on DF. He didn't bring up Xbox whatsoever.
I think that's the general idea down the line, once developers get more familiar with the console. The SSD is still considerably slower than the RAM but certain background tasks could be offloaded to the SSD.
User Warned: Platform Waring
Golden eyes. I have a 77" and I can't tell.
The loading times will always be faster on PS5. By a rather large margin. Closer to 2:1 ratio than parity.
PS5 is the superior machine because the difference between 5 seconds load time and 10 seconds load time are much, much, MUCH more noticeable than any drop in 1440p+ resolutions. Rez drops are the least painful downgrade once you get to 1440p and beyond.
Add the dual sense to it and the PS5 is clearly the better machine for those who don't care about gamepass.
No wonder devs are all gushing about it and not the more terafloppy SX.
PSVR2 and Dual Sense alone make the decision a no-brainer for me. I am against Human Interface stagnation in consoles. Microsoft really disappointed me there.
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There is a ~25% difference in bandwidth along with the ~45% difference in CUs
Honestly at this point I think Microsoft is intentionally refusing to adopt new interface features as a response to the Kinect failure. They seem proud to not have features that are dirt cheap nowadays like basic gyro/accelerometers.
OP
OP
The PS4 and x1 showed differences on day 1.
So if there's a small gap on day 1, that's unlikely to change.
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I didn't write what I did because it isn't obvious, I've done the test myself a long time ago. Doesn't mean stuff because unplayable, but people coming around saying it's not noticeable and that it's stupid to push for native res have no idea what they are talking about imo
And because of this, instead of gyro being as much of a standard as analog sticks, it is only present on Nintendo and Sony hardware and devs have less incentive to work on it than if it were universal.
I'm ok with skipping the DS4 touch pad. Yes it gives you like 4 swipes in one button but we already have lots of buttons. I don't object to it being called a gimmick. Possibly tacked because of smartphone games using touch controls?
Gyro aiming is factually better. There is no excuse. Microsoft just dragging everybody down with their inability to comprehend that.
Honestly not sure how much of a difference it would make, considering not even first-party PlayStation games use gyro aiming and "hardcore gamers" freak out about having even the option of using motion controls in "serious games".
I don't think so. Because all those cross-gen games are probably only using <10GB of memory (CPU + GPU). The real next-gen games will use up to 13.5GB on XSX so the CPU will have to work on the slower pool of memory (notably in open world games). This will inevitably create some additionnal memory contention (on top of the usual memory contention) and reduce the total available ram bandwidth.
This won't be the case on PS5.
It's been patched into TLOU and Days Gone. And with the emphasis on DualSense I think it's going to become the standard for PS5 exclusives.
The "hardcore gamers" are going to freak out even more when they get their asses handed to them by gyro users online. And it might become a problem for cross play games because Playstation players will have an advantage over Xbox players.
I was a naysayer and doubter. I started playing Splatoon 2. I disabled motion and used analogue sticks only. I got ABSOLUTELY destroyed. I was forced to learn to use gyro. I saw the light. I now will use it in any game that gives me the option.
It's objectively faster and more accurate than using sticks. But not only that it's more fun, you feel like you're actually aiming. It's a win win.
Even if gamers don't recognize it's superior for shooting, it remains great for casuals. I've seen humans play mariokart instinctively using (non-existing) gyros since super nintendo days.
It just makes too much sense not to include it. There are also games out there on smartphones that use their gyros that could be ported.
They should've spent the goddamn extra $1.
Yep, in 2013:
- COD: 1080p vs 720p (125% higher res)
- BF4: 900p vs 720p (56% higher res)
- AC4: 1080p vs 900p (44% higher res)
Later Tomb Raider DE: ~60fps vs ~30fps (PS4 usually having 20fps advantage in framerate so about 80% higher framerate).
I actually disagree. On my LG oled I find 1080 looks great, particularly with hdr, let alone 1440. Standard PS4 games like re2 look amazing.
A big part of the reason why I didn't like Horizon Zero Dawn was because I tried playing it right after BotW and the lack of gyro aiming was jarring. Nice to hear it was patched into TLoU(2?). I'll check it out.
Ah for sure I wish they would include it. But I have the impression it would be underused like it is on PlayStation, unfortunately.
Just for fun:
During 5 or 10 seconds I have the opportunity to drink a little bit of water and I won't even "notice" how long such a loading screen was, no matter the platform.
If you think about it 10 seconds is a more comfortable time to drink water, your not even rushing it.
But in general most people can tell the difference between 5s and 10s easier than 720 and 1080. Whether or not they find it important is a different question.
The TF number comes from a combination of CUs and clockspeed. The PS5 might have less CUs but it partly makes up for that difference by having much higher clockspeeds. It also needs less bandwith and has the advantage of it being a large pool of same speed memory bandwith while the XsX has 10Gb worth of fast ram while also having 6Gb of lower speed ram. So Yeah the XsX has higher bandwith but the difference probably wont be too significant.
Again the difference between the One X and Ps4pro was much much larger than the difference between the XsX and the PS5. This has been known for a while now and it's not a controversial statement.
I think the difference in computing power between the One X and the PS4Pro was around 40% while the difference between the XsX and PS5 is around 18% with each console having their respective advantages in different area's.
There's probably abother GPU hidden in the PSU.
More likely is that the PS5 is using a less effecient PSU compared to the XsX.
Power supplies are rated by their output, not their input. Efficiency has no impact on their rated power.
Efficiency has impact on how much power is drawn from the socket in order to reach the wattage listed.
I'm saying that they probably went with a less effecient but higher rated PSU so they needed to spend less.
Edit: another possibility is simply that the PS5 is more powerhungry because of the high clockspeeds which impact powerdraw exponentially. And perhaps their I/O solution is powerhungry too.
And actually watching this this morning, earlier someone said this was about the heat. No, the context was about the capabilities of the console.
I'm just curious what these surprises will be.
I'm in for the quality of life, suspend/resume improvements, UI improvements. Everything else is whatever. The games will be there.
We don't know how much is drawn from the socket, we only know their rated wattages, which again is output. There is absolutely no indication that either one is more efficient than the other in terms of the PSU.
Your second point is valid though that the PS5 may actually draw more power due to the clockspeeds and drastically faster IO.
So, slower loading speeds = better hydration = better health + nicer skin. So technically, The SX will make you stronger, more beautiful and you will likely also live longer.
PS5 pre-order cancelled.
Why do I not work in politics or marketing is beyond me. The BS flows so easily from my mouth.
I know we don't know what either systems draws from the socket yet. Just saying that there might be a possibility that their powerdraw from the socket could be very similar and that the difference in the amount of Watts the PSUs deliver could have to do with stuff like headroom or stuff like efficiency and cost.
But i guess my second point might be more likely.
The gap between Pro and X was A LOT bigger with 0 advantages for the Pro from a hardware point of view.
The Series X has the most powerful hardware, but in some cases PS5 has the advantage (higher clockspeeds, only 1 pool of memory) and of course the SSD. But it will take years to see what can really be done with that SSD.
Congrats Rich, John & the crew. I always have DF on during the day while I'm coding and it's really helped me get through the last few months of crunch time. Absolutely adore those folks.
Edit: D'oh! I thought I was in the 1m thread, but w/e, my point still stands. I love these folks and I'm excited for next gen!
Edit: D'oh! I thought I was in the 1m thread, but w/e, my point still stands. I love these folks and I'm excited for next gen!
Inclined to agree, based on all we know.
I appreciate the broad strokes of innovation happening around PS5, and I think we're going to hear a lot of shared sentiment around this once the NDAs drop and we get more games announced.
It's going to be more of a case of the feeling of near-instantaneous loading vs. whatever the average ends up being on Xbox which will be more noticable because it's not near-instantaneous. Once your brain starts expecting to just pick up where you left off within 2 seconds, loads beyond that will become increasingly more noticable.
About bandwidth, you are forgetting that ps4pro targeted about half -or lower- the resolutions that xbone x did.
This time both are targeting the same resolution.
When you put this into perspective, then you can estimate again how significant will the differences be
The PS4Pro had 8 gigs of ram while the X had 12. The Pro had a 4.2TF gpu while the One X has a 6TF Gpu. The One X also had a faster CPU.
Really i'm telling you that the PS5 and XsX are in no way comparible to the One X and PS4Pro.
As for resolutions, i'm pretty sure that this gen will mostly be dealing with dynamic resolutions rather than native resolutions.
The difference is much much smaller between the PS5 and the XsX like many have pointed out plenty of times.
Anyone expecting there to be differences on the level of the PS4Pro vs One X are misinformed.
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