is this worth finishing?
I stopped reading after
Leviathan attacked
Not for any particular reason, just got busy.
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John C. McCrae's Worm Webserial
- Thread starter Deleted member 52442
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is this worth finishing?
I stopped reading after
Not for any particular reason, just got busy.
For people who are unfamiliar but curious:
It's absolutely worth finishing. The whole thing is great, but the story just gets better and better.
And you can find a Kindle version if you look hard enough.
Edit: And by look hard enough, I mean literally just Google "Wildbow worm Kindle" and choose the top result lol
And you can find a Kindle version if you look hard enough.
Edit: And by look hard enough, I mean literally just Google "Wildbow worm Kindle" and choose the top result lol
It is absolutely, 100% worth finishing. One of my favorite books. The point you stopped at is definitely one of the standout moments, but there is so much more of that. The story really goes places. Further, the sequel is probably a week from finishing, so there's plenty for you to read. I definitely recommend it.
It absolutely is worth it.
You can also just listen to the Audiobook: http://audioworm.rein-online.org/
Or you can read along with the Worm podcast, a look and discussion of every Volume of Worm from someone who finished Worm and someone who reads it fresh. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLCW6KR4MVOXaGS2KlDJzWITG0RzAJ9NLo
One of my favorite Web serials.
You can also just listen to the Audiobook: http://audioworm.rein-online.org/
Or you can read along with the Worm podcast, a look and discussion of every Volume of Worm from someone who finished Worm and someone who reads it fresh. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLCW6KR4MVOXaGS2KlDJzWITG0RzAJ9NLo
One of my favorite Web serials.
It's an interesting read, but quite grimdark (the trigger warnings are there for a reason) and Taylor's penchant for being the smartest person in the world does get a bit tiresome after awhile, particularly considering how long it is. However, having said that, I don't regret reading it, and it was definitely memorable. I give it a conditioned recommendation because for everywhere it misses, it hits very well in other places.
Yeah that's pretty much where I ran out of steam too.
There's basically never a break, and shit just gets worse and worse and worse, seemingly. It becomes exhausting to read.
That said, if you love superpowers and fight scenes, this writer does some damn solid ones.
I honestly think its the best piece of super hero fiction of the last decade. Its not perfect as I think the pacing can drag at times and the author maybe focuses on some side characters a little more than he needs to but its just an incredible read. I'd compare it to Game of Thrones in the scale, the thoughtfulness to both the character development and world building and not being afraid to go some dark places while pulling no punches. Not too mention I also think its quite possibly one of the most well realized super hero universes and once you finally understand the full breadth of what's going on in the universe its amazing to see how all the pieces fall together.
Oh and its got like a dozen amazing villains from The Slaughter House 5 who are a fucking incredible villain group to the apocalyptic End Bringers. That and of course a lot of the heroes and the powers in general are great as well as they all get very well developed and have a lot of nuance. The main character is also really well done and goes through one helluva crazy arc.
I never took her for the smartest person in the room, that would be Tattletale, but she was often the most brutally pragmatic person around and often lamented people wouldn't just do what they "needed" to. Taylor actually makes a ton of really stupid mistakes but she is ruthless in getting the job done which of course leads to some even bigger problems than the ones she solves.
Oh and its got like a dozen amazing villains from The Slaughter House 5 who are a fucking incredible villain group to the apocalyptic End Bringers. That and of course a lot of the heroes and the powers in general are great as well as they all get very well developed and have a lot of nuance. The main character is also really well done and goes through one helluva crazy arc.
I never took her for the smartest person in the room, that would be Tattletale, but she was often the most brutally pragmatic person around and often lamented people wouldn't just do what they "needed" to. Taylor actually makes a ton of really stupid mistakes but she is ruthless in getting the job done which of course leads to some even bigger problems than the ones she solves.
Had to double check that this wasn't by the singer from Cake. Turns out there's more than one John McCrae.
I did joke at one point that it feels like turning the series into proper physical novels has become his version of writing The Winds of Winter. That said its kind of insane to see how much content Wildbow was pushing out sometimes several times a week. He pushed out a series with hundreds of thousands of words in a matter of like 2 years time. Its nearly as long as all the currently released Game of Thrones books!
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did he get any money from this? surprised i havent ever heard about movie/tv rights etc.
I have no clue to be honest. This was nearly a decade ago before the likes of Patreon and even kickstarter. I know Wildbow has talked about being approached by various publishers and stuff but I don't think he ever committed to anything.
He is the most successful amateur writer in the (western) world in the last years based on Patreon funding. (Piratebae with her Wandering Inn 7+ mio words epic has recently beaten him)
He got 5 to 8k dollar in the last year per month on Patreon, Paypal donations not included.
a movie is completely out of scope. A TV series would also need something like 20 to 30 years to faithfully adept the content.
if he ever could sell the movie/TV rights, I would bet on a "based on the universe "Worm" type of deal. Either completely doing away with the storyline and just using the superpowers, lore, and setting (which has potential enough) or loosely telling Taylor's story condensed in a TV series with a 5-year outline.
I feel like wildbow has commented on tv speculation, but nothing in any way promising or to suggest it would ever actually happen lol.
Has anyone read the sequel series, I started it at one point but wanted to reread Worm and that... that just might not be realistic lol.
I think a TV series totally doable. They're not gonna adapt it scene for scene, word for word and I've never expect them to. It could go for something like 8 or 9 seasons over a decade for sure but 20 to 30 years? Come on now, this isn't One Piece. If anything the budget would be the issue considering how insane stuff like the Leviathan event was.
From what I've heard, Wildbow has been approached a couple times from people with talks of tv/movie writes. The conversations eventually died off, though. Same with the idea of publishing a proper physical version. One reason that an edited, published version has never been done is because Wildbow wouldn't be able to keep writing while he did that, and writing these serials is is main source of income.
Personally, I would kill for a tv show to be made from Worm, though I think it would have to animated to really work.
I've been reading Ward week to week, yeah. It's just about to end, actually.
It's definitely different from Worm. There's a large contingent of Worm fans don't like Ward. The focus is entirely different from Worm, but what is unambiguously better is the quality of the writing. He's become a much better writer over the years, and Ward has some absolutely incredible character work, and some of the best single chapters I've read. The problem is that the overarching plot doesn't fit together as well as Worm. I always saw Worm as a story that was somehow better than the sum of it's parts. Ward is like the opposite. Some of the best parts of any of his works, but the pieces just don't cohere into a single work as well.
But I also know reading week to week tends to give a different perspective, so I'm wondering if my views on Ward will change once I re-read it.
Personally, I would kill for a tv show to be made from Worm, though I think it would have to animated to really work.
I've been reading Ward week to week, yeah. It's just about to end, actually.
It's definitely different from Worm. There's a large contingent of Worm fans don't like Ward. The focus is entirely different from Worm, but what is unambiguously better is the quality of the writing. He's become a much better writer over the years, and Ward has some absolutely incredible character work, and some of the best single chapters I've read. The problem is that the overarching plot doesn't fit together as well as Worm. I always saw Worm as a story that was somehow better than the sum of it's parts. Ward is like the opposite. Some of the best parts of any of his works, but the pieces just don't cohere into a single work as well.
But I also know reading week to week tends to give a different perspective, so I'm wondering if my views on Ward will change once I re-read it.
spoilers for the sequel
I've read until Arc 8 or 9 and dropped it until it is finished, maybe.
The truth is, I don't really feel Ward, the new cast isn't interesting or cohesive like Worm.
And what really infuriates me, is the morale and the societal stupidity we find ourselves in Ward. The people in charge are morons, the post-apocalyptic society is completely unbelievable. You have villains openly recruit people into slavery and the higher-ups do nothing because of the PAST amnesty.
This shit and incompetence just gets my blood boiling
The truth is, I don't really feel Ward, the new cast isn't interesting or cohesive like Worm.
And what really infuriates me, is the morale and the societal stupidity we find ourselves in Ward. The people in charge are morons, the post-apocalyptic society is completely unbelievable. You have villains openly recruit people into slavery and the higher-ups do nothing because of the PAST amnesty.
This shit and incompetence just gets my blood boiling
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ive heard about this chapter but i have no idea what those 4 words could have been.
i need to decide if im going to restart or try to pick up from where i left off
well deserved, The Wandering Inn is a great read and if anyone here doesnt know about it, please try it. Kinda rocky/generic start, but becomes better than Worm eventually (which is great). Comedy, tragedy, epic fights, its all there. Its massive in scope and very addictive.
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How do these webserials even get started
blows my mind pumping out that much content constantly in one single world
I absolutely adore Worm, though I do think the entire thing needs to be cut down by 20 to 30 percent pretty badly. The nature of releasing a serial to readers live is that you can't go back and tighten up your structure effectively.
Also, I just COULD NOT get into Ward, no matter how hard I tried. Not sure what it was, exactly.
Still, Worm rules and you should definitely read it.
Also, I just COULD NOT get into Ward, no matter how hard I tried. Not sure what it was, exactly.
Still, Worm rules and you should definitely read it.
From reading Wildbow's commentary it sounds like he's been creating the world of Worm in his head since he was a kid. He talked about coming up with the idea of the Endbringers a long time ago and how he's had ideas for characters like the Siberian in his head for a long time but just had to figure out how to make it all work.
It is a great series, BUT! I was skipping POV's more often as the books progressed. The scope got too broad and too many POV's. Anything Hero's/Company/Seven is an instant skip.
Also, the blind Emperor got stupid doing stupid and out of character things for the sake of the plot. That's the point where I put the series on hold.
Been a long time since I read it, and honestly didn't expect to ever see a thread about it here.
At the time it was one of the best things I've ever read. It might still be, but I really like Stormlight Archive, so I'm not sure.
Definitely worth finishing. The author only gets better at writing. Haven't finished any of his other series', but got quite far into Twig (I think that's what it was?)
At the time it was one of the best things I've ever read. It might still be, but I really like Stormlight Archive, so I'm not sure.
Definitely worth finishing. The author only gets better at writing. Haven't finished any of his other series', but got quite far into Twig (I think that's what it was?)
I've followed John McCrae/Wildbow's works for a while, and I've read all of them with the sole exception of Twig, so it's funny to see it pop up here. I made a thread for Ward back when it first began, but it did not take off at all.
Worm was something I really enjoyed while reading in a giant binge, getting on to it towards the last few arcs. The ending was and still is incredibly hype, and there's a lot of great moments in the story. As others have said, it does suffer by nature of being a serial novel, meaning the pacing is screwed up in a lot of places, but the huge cast of characters and interesting+inventive powers keep it powering through even when it can drag on.
Looking back on it through a myriad of discussions I've had over the years, there are serious problems with the worldbuilding and setting around the story, and I've grown more and more disenfranchised with Taylor's perspective as I get older. It's such a teenager "I'm the only one right, everyone else is getting in my way, and I'm gonna make it happen my way no matter what" mindset that is then continuously reinforced by the story to the point of other characters being frustratingly stupid or incompetent. At the same time, Taylor just became an unlikable character to me at a certain point because of her constant downward trajectory of morals combined with her stubbornness and a story that kept creating scenarios to justify it rather than pushing back against it at all.
However, I recognize that Worm was a story built on being a slightly more ostensibly "grounded" superhero power fantasy, about teenagers rebelling against authority, and it works for what it's trying to accomplish for the most part, even if the execution could be improved.
Ward (the sequel to Worm) is finishing up now, and I will say that story has a lot more problems structurally than Worm, even though I think Wildbow's writing has generally improved a lot.
The core cast in Ward is sooooo good, and they all bounce off of each other well but with a different dynamic than Undersiders. Undersiders will give you funner snark, but Breakthrough feels like people genuinely trying to help each other be better (they started off as a therapy group, after all), which combined with them being heroes made everyone feel likable and sympathetic to me even when they had their screw-ups. Wildbow has gotten way better at relationship dynamics and I just loved seeing people interact, like Antares and Swansong's dynamic.
Nowadays, I don't know that I would recommend either Worm or Ward. If you're into comic books or looking for interesting powers and teenage power fantasy, Worm can work for you. If all you're looking for is a great core cast of characters, Ward can work for you.
Worm was something I really enjoyed while reading in a giant binge, getting on to it towards the last few arcs. The ending was and still is incredibly hype, and there's a lot of great moments in the story. As others have said, it does suffer by nature of being a serial novel, meaning the pacing is screwed up in a lot of places, but the huge cast of characters and interesting+inventive powers keep it powering through even when it can drag on.
Looking back on it through a myriad of discussions I've had over the years, there are serious problems with the worldbuilding and setting around the story, and I've grown more and more disenfranchised with Taylor's perspective as I get older. It's such a teenager "I'm the only one right, everyone else is getting in my way, and I'm gonna make it happen my way no matter what" mindset that is then continuously reinforced by the story to the point of other characters being frustratingly stupid or incompetent. At the same time, Taylor just became an unlikable character to me at a certain point because of her constant downward trajectory of morals combined with her stubbornness and a story that kept creating scenarios to justify it rather than pushing back against it at all.
However, I recognize that Worm was a story built on being a slightly more ostensibly "grounded" superhero power fantasy, about teenagers rebelling against authority, and it works for what it's trying to accomplish for the most part, even if the execution could be improved.
Ward (the sequel to Worm) is finishing up now, and I will say that story has a lot more problems structurally than Worm, even though I think Wildbow's writing has generally improved a lot.
- How the antagonists are handled and written in Ward are very lackluster, and I think suffer for trying to live up to the scale and sensation of the inhuman threats of Worm like the Endbringers and Slaughterhouse Nine but while still just being normal parahumans, so they're written with absurd capabilities or resources but then are unclimactically written off because there's not reasonable ways to defeat them.
- The problems with everyone being incompetent outside of the protagonists also carries through, but there's no the same catharsis to it without Taylor being an overconfident teenager who takes over it all and does it better because she's so great.
- There is not a clear story thrust or throughline in Ward basically... ever. There's a much greater disconnect between arcs because there's not the same overarching plot as "Taylor is trying to be a hero > Taylor is trying to protect the city > Taylor is trying to stop the end of the world" in Worm.
- The ending also fell pretty flat for me, as there's also some storytelling decisions that seem to weigh on artificial drama by holding back information from the reader in weirdly obtuse ways, which I think could have been handled better, and without the overarching story thrust, the final conflicts don't have as much weight as they should.
The core cast in Ward is sooooo good, and they all bounce off of each other well but with a different dynamic than Undersiders. Undersiders will give you funner snark, but Breakthrough feels like people genuinely trying to help each other be better (they started off as a therapy group, after all), which combined with them being heroes made everyone feel likable and sympathetic to me even when they had their screw-ups. Wildbow has gotten way better at relationship dynamics and I just loved seeing people interact, like Antares and Swansong's dynamic.
Nowadays, I don't know that I would recommend either Worm or Ward. If you're into comic books or looking for interesting powers and teenage power fantasy, Worm can work for you. If all you're looking for is a great core cast of characters, Ward can work for you.
I couldn't get into the cast. Especially because there was no main character that provided a counterbalance to the character stupidity of the rest of the multiverse.
The society is non-sensical, the heroes are morons, and the villains are just Slaughterhouse 9 wannabee's that can do whatever they want because of plot reasons.
(I also drop any novel that has Slaughterhouse 9 equivalents now, when there is no obvious reasons those people are still roaming free when there are immensely powerful "good guys")
I don't think Wildbow has learned the right lessons why Worm is and was successful. His escalate mantra worked for Worm because it also established the world and you got to know the characters and especially Taylor.
His next work, Pact, was a disaster in pacing, you never felt grounded, you never got to know the cast, there was no "training montage" or anything to take a breath between the escalations. I still finished it, coming directly from Worm, but I would give it a 4/10 to the 10/10 to Worm.
I tried Twig three times and couldn't get further than Arc 3. It started great and I thought we would get into the cast in the boarding school setting, but that was done in the same arc and I gave up after reading through the Pact fiasco.
I wanted to love Ward, but After 9 or 10 arcs (the dimension bombing, and the attack on the religious nuts, don't know which came after what) I quit.
At least there are some very good Worm fanfics.
Worm's a great little story if you can tolerate darkness I think.
Up to a point. There's a timeskip that happens in the latter half and after that I felt like I completely lost a grasp on characters and motivations and things escalate to create an insane situation which is great for spectacle, fight scenes, and emotional heaviness but personally I felt like it never slowed down after that until the end in a way that also contributed to losing the character of the earlier moments.
Amazing combat though, best power usage in superhero stuff I've ever encountered, and some real grounded character stuff before that period.
Also I can agree with StormBrute's post; the story wants you to root for Taylor's ruthlessness, but after a while it stops giving the best exploration of it. It's just what has to be done bc of big stakes, like a WH40K Inquisitor.
Up to a point. There's a timeskip that happens in the latter half and after that I felt like I completely lost a grasp on characters and motivations and things escalate to create an insane situation which is great for spectacle, fight scenes, and emotional heaviness but personally I felt like it never slowed down after that until the end in a way that also contributed to losing the character of the earlier moments.
Amazing combat though, best power usage in superhero stuff I've ever encountered, and some real grounded character stuff before that period.
Also I can agree with StormBrute's post; the story wants you to root for Taylor's ruthlessness, but after a while it stops giving the best exploration of it. It's just what has to be done bc of big stakes, like a WH40K Inquisitor.