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Principate

Member
Oct 31, 2017
11,186
Bruh. I don't love Finn's arc but thats mad reductive. Finn start's TFA as essentially a new born baby. He gets a name, imprints on the first two people he sees and ends TFA's that way. Finn only knows that he likes Rey, fancy jackets and is tired of fighting a war on either side. He just wants to be free and be happy. His arc on TLJ gives him empathy and perspective. I don't want to go over it point by point because folks don't care but its on the screen. There's enough stuff to critque in the film without having to just erase whole arcs to prove a point lol.
The problem with the arc is that it's so stupid and hamfisted is that it makes Finn's character come off worse than when he started the film. He's taught surface level empathy and perspective that falls apart upon any sort of scrutiny (I mean that horse is obvious going to get caught captured and tortured as a result of the escape, the heroes don't care).

It's all an uninspired waste. There was a interesting arc right there to follow with the character that was simply ignored. The dude broke his programming a rare occurrence that seemingly never happened before. It wouldn't have been hard to explore and explain why that happened and link that into the current resistance struggle.
 
Oct 28, 2017
13,691
Clearly I didn't see him that way. Yeah, there were comedic elements to his character, especially comparative to Rey, but he's not a fucking joke like he becomes in the sequel.
He seems rather consistent in characterization to me. He has his moments of heroism and looking like a goofball. He has arguably more scenes of being a goof or being dunked on in TFA. I think a lot of you guys who liked his character or wanted something grander for him are really not seeing his character accurately.
 

MagicHobo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,600
To the first point, the problem is that Poe largely gets most of the meaty character development, and gets the completion of his arc, whereas Finn's arc is basically a hard reset at the start, and seems to be aiming in a specific direction, only for Rose to "subvert those expectations" as was often said by taking away the logical closure point of that arc for some meaningless bullshit speech she gives him.
I disagree with this. I don't think Rose undercutting the end point in any way undoes his development. The development isn't fulfilled by him dying due to sacrfice, a death isn't what defines a hero, it is the decision to risk his life for others in the first place. And I think people tend to reduce Rose's actions as undercutting Finn's development, but that ignores that Rose is allowed to have agency too. Finn is a hero because he chooses to sacrifice himself, not because he dies. Rose comes around to see Finn as a hero because of his decisions and saves him because she believes it's right. Finn gets the development and the ability to carry that through for real in the next film.

I also don't think his arc was a hard reset because I think you are giving an overly generous interpretation of TFA to be addressed further below:

As for the latter point, I think to me it was largely about the role the character has in TFA. He takes on a leadership role with his know-how in the climax of that film, whereas Poe is basically just "cool hero soldier" and nothing more. Finn is the one who knows how to save the day and stop Starkiller Base, and risks everything to lead Han and Chewie there. One could argue that his primary motivation is to save his friend, but that's neither here nor there, and just speaks to what an innate good person he is. He grew as a character to go from being someone who runs away from a fight, to someone who does what needs to be done to save those he cares about. To me, that was enough to show that the plan was for him to become a leader in the Resistance throughout the films, at least until TLJ degrades him to actual comedic relief and resets his arc.
You say Finn takes on a leadership role with know-how and say that his primary motivation to save his friend is "neither here nor there", but that kind of glosses over this explicit dialogue:

Han Solo : Sanitation? Then how do you know how to disable the shields?
Finn : I don't. I'm just here to get Rey.

He does NOT know how to stop Starkiller base in any sort of substantive way. He is still demonstrating heroism because he goes to save his friend though. That is solid development. You are right that he goes from running away, to running toward the fight to save his friend.

I think it would have been reasonable to continue this story without distinguishing between loyalty to his friend and allegiance to the resistance as separate things, as you advocate. The development could have worked for both and it wouldn't have been that clunky for the sequel to take it from there.

However I think the decision to make the distinction between loyalty to friend and to a cause is also a valid one, and provides an avenue to explore the conflict from the ground with a more nuanced perspective. It doesn't reset his development. He isn't running away at the beginning of TLJ for just himself. He is doing it for his friend. He thinks if he stays that will doom her. I think in a very basic cost benefit analysis, it makes sense that he thinks it would be the best course of action. What could he offer by sticking around? This way he is at least helping his friend. No other option is laid out before him.

Crucially, I think it is worth noting that after Rose stops him and mentions the tracking, an option presents itself that could save the resistance. He now sees something that he COULD do, something that only he can offer. He can actually contribute and he fully embraces that opportunity. The stuff that follows is just a further exploration on finding and embracing purpose. Could it be shorter or presented differently? Probably, but Rian wanted to explore themes of failure and use his adventure to show another angle on the universe and I think that is valid as well.

Not to say this was the most entertaining, satisfying, or efficient avenue, but I think there is more to appreciate than people reacting would allow themselves to critically evaluate.
 
Last edited:

Enduin

You look 40
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,485
New York
Canto Bight was pointless and Rose teaching Finn a lesson about the horrors of the conflict was kind of insulting. Dude was a child slave soldier. His relative arc was fine but the execution was terrible. They should have focused entirely on infiltrating the Supremacy and having Finn face the FO and his past head on. With them utilizing Rose to show and instill in Finn that other people are worth fighting for and that the Resistance is worth his trust and support.

It's fine if they wanted to double down on his single mindedness to save Rey during it all, but examine more why he's like that and why he wants to run away by showing us more of the FO. Have him teach Rose a lesson on how terrible the FO is and why he's so desperate to get away from them. But then have her do something selfless to show him there are people out there willing to save others no matter the cost and that taking a stand and fighting is a worthy cause. Which would actually be a decent setup and justification for his suicide run at the end.
 

Pooh

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,849
The Hundred Acre Wood
You are of course correct. Finn's arc is curious - it's never completed in TFA so TLJ has to get him to a point where he is the dedicated Rebel he will be in TROS.

I guess people's problem with Finn's arc in TLJ is that it doesn't immediately feel that different in both films, despite obviously being so. In TFA, he is a good hearted guy who fights not only his superior Phasma but the emblem of the First Order himself, Kylo Ren. In terms of accomplishments he's sort of peaked. Those fights also seem like the actions of a rebel, even if his intentions are selfish. In TLJ he learns to care more about the Resistance cause, but it's not an entirely out of left field development.

It could have been something like:

TFA: Traumatised soldier, aloof, confused about what's right and wrong, is forced into a partnership with Rey and defends her at the end.

TLJ: Softens and grows further, loosens up, becomes more "human"

TROS: Takes the fight to the First Order as a fully fledged rebel.

Yeah, I think you can sort of see the issues from TFA coming out of a lack of organic character development and more planning around scenes and how to get there. "We need to have our characters do a cool lightsaber fight in the snowy woods, how do we get them there?" as opposed to the characters actually developing naturally.
 

JDSN

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,129
Just think about the first day on set, being told you gonna wear that diaper thing and have your role in the film explained.
 

Metallix87

User Requested Self-Ban
Banned
Nov 1, 2017
10,533
I disagree with this. I don't think Rose undercutting the end point in any way undoes his development. The development isn't fulfilled by him dying due to sacrfice, a death isn't what defines a hero, it is the decision to risk his life for others in the first place. And I think people tend to reduce Rose's actions as undercutting Finn's development, but that ignores that Rose is allowed to have agency too. Finn is a hero because he chooses to sacrifice himself, not because he dies. Rose comes around to see Finn as a hero because of his decisions and saves him because she believes it's right. Finn gets the development and the ability to carry that through for real in the next film.

I also don't think his arc was a hard reset because I think you are giving an overly generous interpretation of TFA to be addressed further below:

You say Finn takes on a leadership role with know how and say that his primary motivation is to save his friend, but that kind of glosses over this explicit dialogue:

Han Solo : Sanitation? Then how do you know how to disable the shields?
Finn : I don't. I'm just here to get Rey.

He does NOT know how to stop Starkiller base in any sort of explicit way. He is still demonstrating heroism because he goes to save his friend though. That is solid development. You are right that he goes from running away, to running toward the fight to save his friend.
I don't think one has to die to be a hero, but that was the direction his arc was developing in the film until Rose said otherwise. I would attribute this to RJ largely mismanaging his arc and completely mismanaging everything about Rose's character. I think neither lands well because of the weird gymnastics set up for both of them.

As far as Finn's motivations and know-how, yeah, he was involved in Sanitation and doesn't know how to actually disable the shields, but he is the one who is largely aware of the weakness in Starkiller Base's armor, and is also the one with the in-depth know-how of the schematics of the base. He is the one who comes up with the idea of using Phasma to shut off the shields, and leads Han and Chewie to her. I think you're really under-selling his actions in that part of the film.

With regards to the loyalty distinction, I do think it's a valid choice, but I dislike how TLJ handles that. That said, I also dislike the entire setup of TLJ from the get-go. I think all three primary characters (Rey, Poe, and Finn) are done a disservice by the beginning of that film, and to my mind, only Rey's story ever fully recovers.
 

DIE BART DIE

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,847
There were some odd decisions regarding deleted scenes in TLJ. The one of Luke crying upon hearing about Han absolutely should have been included, and it really wouldn't have hurt Finn to keep this one (or something like it):

 

Azuran

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,563
The Last Jedi did a diservice to everything Star Wars. I day Finn got off easy compared to the other character assasinations that took place in that film.
 

Mr. Pointy

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,141
Yeah, I think you can sort of see the issues from TFA coming out of a lack of organic character development and more planning around scenes and how to get there. "We need to have our characters do a cool lightsaber fight in the snowy woods, how do we get them there?" as opposed to the characters actually developing naturally.
TROS is going to have the same problems. It's a JJ Abrams staple.

I've seen TFA 3 times and it suffers from the same issues of rushing from scene A-to-B-to-C-to-D-etc that Star Trek Into Darkness has.
 

The Unsent

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,438
I respect his thoughts, but I only really had a problem with Poe's arc, because it treated his mutiny as him just being cheeky. I know people felt Finn's arc was pointless because he got captured, but the film was about failure and I enjoyed his chemistry with DJ and Rose. I like the visuals of Canto Blights as well and it really reminds of the shady planets of the original trilogy.
 

Garlador

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
14,131
i dont want to derail but i didnt think that was the case?

googling black panther and china shows the racist response but its possible media just showing the side they want us to see
Black Panther made over $105 million in China, its highest-grossing international market actually. Nearly 1/6th of all its foreign box office came from China.

A black lead in Star Wars wouldn't doom it in China.
 

Mars People

Comics Council 2020
Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,192
Star Wars really is a goddamn mess from top to bottom.
From the prequels to these new movies it's all so freaking mismanaged.
Why can't they just write decent movies?
 

Betty

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
17,604
It would've been better if he'd sacrificed himself, he'd be remembered very fondly I think.

Also because it was a great moment where I felt something which is rare in the sequel trilogy.
 

MagicHobo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,600
There were some odd decisions regarding deleted scenes in TLJ. The one of Luke crying upon hearing about Han absolutely should have been included, and it really wouldn't have hurt Finn to keep this one (or something like it):
This one in particular is a very rich scene. It delivers a genuine payoff to Finn's former role as a stormtrooper, something that is only minimally revisted in TFA or TLJ (only as technical insight into the FO, never in how it actually reflects on him as a character), and also provides some much needed characterization for Phasma as a selfish survivor. This kind of scene is such a rich payoff to Finn that I would hope it is actually reserved as a payoff in some capacity in TRoS. It seems like the perfect third act that would give Finn something real and relevant to do.
 

Gustaf

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
14,926
It would've been better if he'd sacrificed himself, he'd be remembered very fondly I think.

Also because it was a great moment where I felt something which is rare in the sequel trilogy.

honestly i know people that would be happy "the black" had died :s

also people had accused rian of being racist, can you imagine if he had killed finn?!
 

Deleted member 7777

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
681
I liked TFA when it came out but it made me nervous Episode 8 would just be an empire rehash. I adored TLJ for completely surprising me and taking the franchise is some bold, different directions.

Turns out the simple minded plebs just wanted an empire rehash. Enjoy the RotJ 2.0 in a few weeks I guess.
🤢🤷‍♂️
 

Future Gazer

▲ Legend ▲
The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
4,273
I liked TFA when it came out but it made me nervous Episode 8 would just be an empire rehash. I adored TLJ for completely surprising me and taking the franchise is some bold, different directions.

Turns out the simple minded plebs just wanted an empire rehash. Enjoy the RotJ 2.0 in a few weeks I guess.
🤢🤷‍♂️

Bold, different directions = empire vs rebels 2.0? Okay.
 

FlashbladeERA

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,259
He seems rather consistent in characterization to me. He has his moments of heroism and looking like a goofball. He has arguably more scenes of being a goof or being dunked on in TFA. I think a lot of you guys who liked his character or wanted something grander for him are really not seeing his character accurately.
[Most of] The humor directed at Finn was better delivered and charming in the TFA where it felt more forced in TLJ.

Plus, Finn is the spark that kicks off the entire story of TFA where in TLJ he is just "there", makes it easy for people to love him more in the first movie.
Especially with the potential the character showed in not only his ties with the first order but possibly being a force user himself.
 

Deleted member 52442

User requested account closure
Banned
Jan 24, 2019
10,774
Black Panther made over $105 million in China, its highest-grossing international market actually. Nearly 1/6th of all its foreign box office came from China.

A black lead in Star Wars wouldn't doom it in China.

i mean, i dont think it would either. but someone obviously does if they removed finn from posters
 

Shoreu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,010
I honestly hate Finn as a character, what a let down . I was so hyped to have a serious Black character in Star Wars again that looked to be featured in such an upfront role... and instead we got the embodiment of the butt monkey trope. I can't remember who did that breakdown on the poor writing of his character but it was spot on
 

CurseVox

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,356
Massachusetts (USA)
I don't really disagree with him to be honest. This was something that REALLY bothered me in TLJ. The Force Awakens may have been playing it safe, but it set up a solid foundation for the rest of the trilogy IMO. The new characters were all fantastic. The dynamics between Finn, Rey and Poe for example made them likeable. The tension between Kylo and Rey was palpable. I was fully invested. I cared about the characters and was super excited to see where the story went next. What new ground was covered.... I didn't care as much about the older characters after seeing TFA. I was fully invested in this new generation of Star Wars. Then, TLJ happened and totally killed all of the great chemistry built up to that point. At least for me it did. That is the primary reason I strongly disliked TLJ. Above everything else..
 

LBsquared

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Nov 22, 2019
1,603
In a film where no one was handled well, he isn't wrong. Just overall a terrible SW movie.
 

SlumberingGiant

alt account
Banned
Jul 2, 2019
1,389
I liked TFA when it came out but it made me nervous Episode 8 would just be an empire rehash. I adored TLJ for completely surprising me and taking the franchise is some bold, different directions.

Turns out the simple minded plebs just wanted an empire rehash. Enjoy the RotJ 2.0 in a few weeks I guess.
🤢🤷‍♂️
Are you calling Jonh Boeyga a simple minded pleb?
 

Helot_Azure

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
1,521
There were some odd decisions regarding deleted scenes in TLJ. The one of Luke crying upon hearing about Han absolutely should have been included, and it really wouldn't have hurt Finn to keep this one (or something like it):



Yeah, that scene would have definitely helped.

TLJ dropped the ball on just about all the characters.
 

DIE BART DIE

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,847
This one in particular is a very rich scene. It delivers a genuine payoff to Finn's former role as a stormtrooper, something that is only minimally revisted in TFA or TLJ (only as technical insight into the FO, never in how it actually reflects on him as a character), and also provides some much needed characterization for Phasma as a selfish survivor. This kind of scene is such a rich payoff to Finn that I would hope it is actually reserved as a payoff in some capacity in TRoS. It seems like the perfect third act that would give Finn something real and relevant to do.

Yup. It also calls back to the trash compactor from TFA, providing continuity and retroactively making that scene feel like less of a silly gag and more of a plot point.

I have a feeling we will finally see some substantial rumination on his former life in TROS.
 

Jmdajr

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,534
I don't hate Last Jedi, but everything involving Finn and Casino side quest was just so fucking weird.

At that point in the movie I was like, "ok what are we doing here?"

Then shit got crazy and got interesting again.

But yeah. Don't Know.
 
Dec 22, 2017
7,099
He wasn't "willing to sacrifice the whole resistance", he was helping them even while his true motive was to save Rey.

Finn put his own ass on the line to save his friend after spending the entire film only looking to run away to save himself.

The last thing Finn does in TFA is fight Kylo, not lie to the resistance.

EXACTLY. Finn's arc in TFA was learning to face his problems and not run away. Which is accomplished when he ignites the saber against Kylo Ren. This is AFTER the "I'm just here to save Rey" line, when Han explains how the galaxy is counting on them. It's implicit that he learned something from that exchange. Seeing Han get killed and Rey getting knocked out, he realizes he has no choice but to be brave and try to take care of things himself.

Some of these takes feel like there is an underlying implication of the "black man was only motivated by his lust for the white woman". I find it really off putting. Why does this one character need to have a ton of screen time devoted to making him a good person? There was nothing in TFA that made me think he wouldn't be a hero, front and center, in the rest of the movies.
 

MagicHobo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,600
Plus, Finn is the spark that kicks off the entire story of TFA where in TLJ he is just "there", makes it easy for people to love him more in the first movie.
I think this is an interesting and flawed description. You say he is merely "there" in TLJ whereas I would argue he has a greater and more immediate impact to the ultimate outcome in TLJ than he does in TFA.

His actions at the beginning of TFA weren't a spark, they didn't' cause a chain reaction that led to Rey finding BB-8, that all happened independently of him. She fended off the guys on her own, she didn't need his help escaping the first order or finding a ship or piloting the ship. She didn't need his help escaping from Kylo. He was along for the ride for almost the entire film.

Not to say he was just "there in TFA either" though. He absolutely helped Poe escape which ultimately led to the destruction of Starkiller base. However, he isn't "just there" in TLJ either. He helps identify the active tracking. He helps set off the events that lead to the resistance being cornered on Crait.
 

Crimsonskies

Alt account
Banned
Nov 1, 2019
700
There were some odd decisions regarding deleted scenes in TLJ. The one of Luke crying upon hearing about Han absolutely should have been included, and it really wouldn't have hurt Finn to keep this one (or something like it):



I can't for life of me understand why this scene was not the one that was kept, it was so much better than the Phasma scene we got.
 

Soupbones

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,278
Finn's storyline actually is the least "subverting expectations" part of the entire film. In fact it's probably the most straightforward bit of storytelling there is.
Agreed - it's too bad that instead of diving deeper into the more interesting parts of his story (former storm trooper, his potential love interest in Rey,), TLJ decided to ditch all of that for the sake of Rian Johnson's idea to subverting our expectations with a boring fetch quest and no connection to Rey and Poe for the entire film - which ultimately made the character lame.

And dont get me started on Captain Phasma lol.
 

carlosrox

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,270
Vancouver BC
While I did end up loving TLJ, I have been more than forthright that I have many a bone to pick with it, including some of what Boyega said.

TLJ went too far with the shock value.

The one moment I will really never forget is Luke tossing the lightsaber. What a stupid way to continue what was an emotional cliffhanger.

I can tolerate everything else, but not that.
 

FFNB

Associate Game Designer
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
6,118
Los Angeles, CA
I love The Last Jedi, but I agree. Johnson did a poor job exploiting Finn's story potential. I actually don't mind the Canto Bight subplot, but in terms of how he could have used it to expand on Finn's growth, it's frustrating. It did do a lot to get into Rose's head and motivations, which I really liked, but it really could have been a great moment to have Finn do more than just quietly react to what Rose was saying. If they had thrown Phasma in the mix as an ever-present pursuer and threat to Finn and Rose's mission, we could have gotten even more out of the Canto Bight subplot.

I love Finn, and enjoy seeing Boyega play the character, but Johnson did not know what to do with him, and probably should have gotten some outside perspective on Finn's arc. Maybe even discuss it with John and collaboratively shape the character.

With that said, I love the back end of Finn's story in TLJ. Him finally fighting for something larger than himself, and not just for Rey. In TFA, he was running away. In the TLJ, he just wanted to protect Rey from returning to danger. By the end of TLJ, he learns to not be so selfish and to embrace the bigger picture. It's how Johnson got him there that's hollow and full of wasted potential.

I'm very interested to see how TROS handles his character. I'm hoping JJ will do more with him. He did a great job with him in TFA, so I'm cautiously optimistic.
 

Seeya

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,984





He also suggests his decision to return to the character would be based on how well they keep to that classic feel:



This is also not the first time Boyega has criticizes Finn's storyline, but it's probably the most vocal he's been about it.

Anyone reasonable would take issue with getting the opportunity of a lifetime, getting the role of Finn, putting your all into it, and then having it turn out to be some almost racist hogwash where you're placed for jokes 24/7, and degraded from 'actual Stormtrooper' to 'Janitor'.
 

OutofMana

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,080
California
Rian said he had difficulty separating Finn and Poe from a writing standpoint and I think it translates over into the film in that he definitely didn't understand how to write Finn well.
They could have just had them both looking for the code breaker. It would have still made Poe the dude going against authority figures 🤷🏻‍♂️
 

kIdMuScLe

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,571
Los angeles
I liked TFA when it came out but it made me nervous Episode 8 would just be an empire rehash. I adored TLJ for completely surprising me and taking the franchise is some bold, different directions.

Turns out the simple minded plebs just wanted an empire rehash. Enjoy the RotJ 2.0 in a few weeks I guess.
🤢🤷‍♂️

lots of people say this but what bold and different direction it send the franchise to? Don't say that anyone can be a Jedi because we already know that anyone can be a Jedi from the PT
 

YolkFolk

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,212
The North, England
I don't think time will be too kind to TLJ.

It's failure to develop a strong antagonist has already impacted RoS and led to them bringing back Palpatine with zero build up.

Having read the spoilers, this is going to have major implications on how people see RotJ and not in a good way.

Separately, I hated how Finn and Poe were treated throughout the movie. It genuinely felt like RJ had no idea what to do with either of them.
 

Stoney Mason

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,920
Agree with him completely. He was my favorite character in the force awakens. He was completely wasted imo in the last jedi unfortunately.
 

Veelk

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,707
The thing that bugs me about the "Finn only wants to save Rey" argument is why the fuck is he so fixated on Rey.

In TFA, I assumed that it was because she was the only one who he saw as needing help at the time of his escape. And yeah, he also develops a bond with her and thinks that she's cute. But I really just imagined that he's the type to make bonds really easily with people he gets to know. Like, if he found out Poe was the one who was captured by the First Order, he'd go rescue him as well, because he's his friend and he rescued him before and he needs help, so he's gonna help him.

What throws me off about his "Fuck everyone else, I only care about Rey" attitude is that it's.....weird? It positions Rey as this super special person in his life, and, sure, she is special due to the events of TFA. But to the point that he reserves all his empathy and care for her and only her? That he is willing to let the rest of the galaxy just burn for his personal safety, but will risk life and limb for her alone? Why?

That's a weird characterization for someone he basically just met and became friends with. And while Star Wars is choke full of this schlocky shit (see Han abandoning his smuggler life because he likes Luke and Leia), the story doesn't position it against his disregard of everyone else.
 

Alienous

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,605
I blame the writers and director for TFA for starting something and not finishing it. What did they think would happen when you toss around a trilogy to different people and don't even have a real outline of what's going to happen.

Especially if you write that character into a coma before you pass the baton. It isn't surprising that Finn would have a reduced role.
 

Heid

Member
Jan 7, 2018
1,808
lots of people say this but what bold and different direction it send the franchise to? Don't say that anyone can be a Jedi because we already know that anyone can be a Jedi from the PT
Truth. I swear some tlj fans.... Apparently its a bold new direction to tease the two main characters switching sides or maybe teaming up but then saying lol sike back to the status quo!

TLJ is the opposite of taking SW somewhere new. It ends up back where the movie started :|
 

DiipuSurotu

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
53,148
I can't for life of me understand why this scene was not the one that was kept, it was so much better than the Phasma scene we got.
Maybe they just didn't have time to finish it. The sequel trilogy films were made under heavy time constraints due to the release schedule.

JJ wanted Snoke and Maz Kanada to be animatronics in TFA but he didn't have enough to do that so he made them CGI in the end.
 

Seeya

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,984
I liked TFA when it came out but it made me nervous Episode 8 would just be an empire rehash. I adored TLJ for completely surprising me and taking the franchise is some bold, different directions.

Turns out the simple minded plebs just wanted an empire rehash. Enjoy the RotJ 2.0 in a few weeks I guess.
🤢🤷‍♂️

That's exactly what TLJ leave you with though. Name me a bold different direction that actually flows as the sequel to TLJ and the capstone to the ST. Kylo has been undermined so much (and played as an idiot (along with Hux) in the scene following his claiming the thrown) that he wasn't going to be a viable ender. Luke was dead prematurely, Fisher passed away in real life, Han died. What bold new direction is there that actually makes sense and isn't random, unreletated, and is substantiative enough?

I mean heck they even litterally and metaphoricaly closed the door on there being complexity to Kylo/Rey.

Middle chapters tend to add planks to a story, not remove them.
 
Jan 3, 2018
3,405
i really dont understand how Finn lying his ass off to the resistance, and they pinning their hopes into him knowing how to deactivate the shields, flies off from people's face.

like seriously, he was ready to sacrifice the whole resistance for rey.

You would have lied to the resistance too if they didn't give a shit about saving your friend who helped you return a Resistance droid on a very important mission.

Doesn't mean him and Poe weren't friends.

the rebels/resistance are always on doomed ship.

what do you think is their job? collecting flowers?!

So cheeky
 

Deleted member 33120

User Requested Account Closure
Banned
Nov 15, 2017
970
He's completely right. TLJ made him into a total clown who had to go through the same character arc of the first movie and be lectured about the evils of the First Order by another character even though he should be well-versed in it.

In fact, the whole movie badly under-served its diverse cast. Even Rey was reduced to pining over the abusive villain.

Kylo was the only one who received the bulk of RJ's attention, which came across as almost misguided apologism for a school shooter.

The whole movie is problematic.