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Joel Schumacher’s Batman Forever - A Misunderstood Masterpiece

Pharaun

Pharaun

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,052
Some of the best advice I was ever given was "Don't be afraid to like bad things". So many people are afraid to admit that things they like are bad, but there's nothing wrong with finding enjoyment in something bad. You don't even have to like it ironically, you can just enjoy it for what it is.

In this particular case the movie was dumb fun, and that's fine.
 

Gunman

Member
Aug 19, 2020
1,670
Batman Forever is great. Let's not even pretend it isn't.

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The Real Abed

The Real Abed

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,723
Pennsylvania
It's a fun movie. I enjoy it whenever I watch it. But it's not a masterpiece. I would like to have seen one more Burton film instead. Possibly with the same characters. (But keep Billy Dee Williams as Two-Face like he would have been) I wonder how those two villains would have fit into Burton's darker setting.

They really wanted to make it campy and more comic-book-y which sucks because the whole point of the first two was to make something new and different and darker. Schumacher came in and decided everything needed to be colorful. The most colorful things in the first two films were the villains. But in the second two everything was colorful. Personally I just consider Burton's movies separate from Schumacher's because they're just completely different. They only share actors really but they could easily just be two different franchises.
 
darz1

darz1

Member
Dec 18, 2017
7,091
I thought it was pretty good. Kilmer was great as Bruce and Bats. Tommy Lee Jones was entertaining and Jim Carey gave the best performance of the Joker I have seen, despite being cast as the Riddler

And Seals song is a classic
 
Cup O' Tea?

Cup O' Tea?

Member
Nov 2, 2017
3,603
Why is the internet so obsessed with historical revisionism? First people were saying the prequels weren't that bad, now people are saying Batman Forever is a masterpiece. I don't think I want to live on this planet anymore.

lunarworks said:
The most memorable part of that movie, for me, was the soundtrack.
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It's not bad. I usually hate U2 but "Hold me, thrill me, kiss me, kill me" is a cool song.
 
modoversus

modoversus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,675
México
I have not seen it in decades at this point, but it is undeniable that production design is excellent, and as a sequel to the Burton films I felt it was fine and fun. I should give it a rewatch soon. And I liked a lot the U2 song back then:

 
emperor bohe

emperor bohe

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,544
Val Kilmer could've been great, but yeah this movie sucks

When I saw this as a kid my mom, sister and I left the theatre mid movie lol. I think I then went to rent Super Street Fighter II
 
Forkball

Forkball

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,941
The only good thing about this movie are those McDonald's glasses.

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I still don't get why they made Two Face a manic cartoon. You're supposed to have Riddler, Jim Carrey, be the wacky one with Tommy Lee Jones as the straight man. HOW DO YOU MESS THAT UP?
 
thecouncil

thecouncil

Member
Oct 29, 2017
12,340
I don't understand why Chase Meridian is absolutely obsessed with fucking a suited up Batman. It's her only goal.
 
Flavius

Flavius

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,318
Orlando, FL
It's weird how polarizing this film has become. Prior to release, the concern was how a director like Shumacher would steward the franchise post-Burton. When it released and wasn't a dumpster fire, it reviewed very well for the most part. It was the third movie of the franchise and the third best movie, but it wasn't shit. It was just...okay.

It's an okay Batman film. Not shit. Certainly not a masterpiece. Just okay.
 
Violence Jack

Violence Jack

Drive-in Mutant
Member
Oct 25, 2017
41,754
The movie was a mish mash of different tones. But it has the hottest damn Batman love interest of the entire series so far, one of the best soundtracks of the 90s, and the fight choreography was actually pretty spot on. However, Robin was useless (unless you have some clothes that needs to be wringed out), the camp from the guard at the beginning took me out of the film almost immediately, and the cheesy moments felt like they didn't belong in the movie at all.

That being said, it's still a guilty pleasure of mine camp and all. And I still thought Val Kilmer made for an awesome looking Batman.
 
ThereAreFourNaan

ThereAreFourNaan

Member
Nov 8, 2017
13,110
Forkball said:
The only good thing about this movie are those McDonald's glasses.

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I still don't get why they made Two Face a manic cartoon. You're supposed to have Riddler, Jim Carrey, be the wacky one with Tommy Lee Jones as the straight man. HOW DO YOU MESS THAT UP?
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Correct, I think I remember having the Batman one. Good mugs.

The movie sucks.
 
Ariakon44

Ariakon44

Prophet of Truth
Member
Nov 17, 2020
10,184
For some reason, I remember this movie being pretty well-received when it came out. I mean, I was a kid at the time, so I wasn't really perusing that many newspapers to see reviews, but I don't remember there being much Schumacher hate until Batman & Robin came out.

I thought it was fine as a kid, though I much preferred the Burton movies. Loved Batman Returns (still do, movie is bonkers and not a fantastic Batman movie, but it's a great Tim Burton movie). Hated Two face in Forever, remember liking Jim Carrey at the time.
 
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deimosmasque

deimosmasque

Ugly, Queer, Gender-Fluid, Drive-In Mutant, yes?
Moderator
Apr 22, 2018
14,207
Tampa, Fl
It's an okay movie but some big missteps. The casting of Robin was bad and Two Face should have been reigned in a bit.

I enjoy it when I watch it unlike Batman and Robin.
 
Ariakon44

Ariakon44

Prophet of Truth
Member
Nov 17, 2020
10,184
So in twenty years are we going to have videos on how "Secretly Genius" Suicide Squad was? Because, yeah, please count me out.

Not that I think Batman Forever is nearly as bad, but it isn't great, either, and it sure as hell isn't a masterpiece (I do love the soundtrack).
 
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KingM

KingM

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,480
It's a fun two hours that drags in or is frustrating inna few spots. Nothing wrong with watching some junk for a couple hours and not having to pretend it's a masterpiece. Most art isn't going to be done timeless classic, and that's fine as long as the people watching it enjoy it.
 
Hero_of_the_Day

Hero_of_the_Day

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
17,346
Ehh. Seemed like a pointless video. It starts off by pointing out that the movie had a lot of thought put into it. Like, yeah, even bad movies are backed by purposeful decisions.

Then he just kinda talks about what happens in the movie, even pointing out himself that he realizes he is building up the themes more than the movie actually presents and does anything with them. He doesn't seem to actually be making a case for the movie being of quality, rather just talking about the movie.

And then it talks about the "director's cut". Which, would be cool to see. But, as is, Forever is a trash ass movie. And with Schumacher gone, I doubt we ever see an extended cut.
 
thecouncil

thecouncil

Member
Oct 29, 2017
12,340
I liked the part where Chase and Alfred said "Happy Halloween" to each other. I think that was about it.

Also this scene is nuts and Robin has two right feet:

 
Fathead

Fathead

Member
Oct 31, 2017
777
sushimonster85 said:
Does anyone else find it odd that Drew Barrymore is just sort of barely in this?? Like she was a famous name, and yet she plays a totally minor side character.
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In 1995 Drew Barrymore was still famous, but hadn't had any major movie roles in a while. She had a bit part in Wayne's World 2 and a bit part in this, a couple of tv movies and some other things. She really only broke out as an adult after Scream.
 

Deleted member 24079

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
3,287
It's interesting that the script went through revisions and that Batman had more arc to the story. I would've wanted that but the movie as it is is super long and too zany. Reminds me of cat and the hat with mike meijer.
 
rycisko

rycisko

Banned
Nov 1, 2017
489
Well obviously "masterpiece" is the perfect headline to get clicks and shitty discourse going from people who take their taste in movies way too seriously. It's a very underrated Batman movie, and quite enjoyable, and I do think it's actually aged quite well. A HELL of a lot better than B&R.

Casting was great. Kilmer played a great Batman/Bruce combo coming off Keatons rendition which was a tall task. While both the Riddler & Two Face were way over the top (like much of the movie) they are acted GREAT by Carrey but especially Tommy Lee Jones.

I mean, TLJ didn't give a fuck about the film and especially about Jim Carrey (there are all time quotes about the feud between the two), but the fact that he performed his ass off for this role is actually pretty admirable & enjoyable.

The worst part about the rest of the cast to me honestly was Nicole Kidman. Beautiful, acted well, but we didn't need another Vicky Vale type which was essentially all she was. Even Chris O'Donnell, the worst actor of the bunch, managed to entertain me more which was a bummer.

Sadly, as much as I like Schumachers attempt at making the Batman Film/Universe more campy & comic like, that lead to a lame story, lots of shitty editing & shit dialogue, which ruins it all quite a bit. Batman & Robin amplified this even more, and it turned out so much worse which isn't really a shocker.

But yes, this is far from an awful or terrible movie, and if you truly believe that you haven't watched enough films. Masterpiece is laughable, obviously, but ill settle for 6th best live action Batman for me, and good for a rewatch every few years 👍
 
Blader

Blader

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,620
sushimonster85 said:
Does anyone else find it odd that Drew Barrymore is just sort of barely in this?? Like she was a famous name, and yet she plays a totally minor side character.
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I think her and Debi Mazar in this movie was like one of my first sexual awareness moments as a kid. I remember watching their bits with a special attention that I couldn't understand at the time lol
 
Dark Ninja

Dark Ninja

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,071
This actually looks great in 4K HDR

I really like the theme and it's obvious the whole thing is homage to the TV show than the Burton movies. I guess people needed mustache joker to show up to get it. Jim Carrey acts his ass off for no reason in this movie. I love the knowledge that Tommy Lee Jones couldn't stand working with him.
 

Deleted member 6173

User-requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,088
I think the biggest problem was the fact that it was coming off the Burton films. The movie was an explicitly tonal shift in the depiction of Batman and Gotham City. I think it was have been better received if it was marketed more as a soft reboot. But then again this was 1995. I remember seeing the movie in grade 6 as an end of the year thing. Great way to start the summer.
 
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The Adder

The Adder

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,111
fairyd said:
I think the biggest problem was the fact that it was coming off the Burton films. The movie was an explicitly tonal shift in the depiction of Batman and Gotham City. I think it was have been better received if it was marketed more as a soft reboot.
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The thing is, it wasn't really a reboot. That scene I posted on the first page? That's Kilmer explaining how he got from where he was in Batman 1989 to where he is in Forever. He did kill the person who killed his parents and it did nothing for him because Batman did end up killing Joker. He ran back out looking for another face and got worse and more violent about it until by the end of Returns, that last conversation with Catwoman makes him realize that his life is just about revenge and he doesn't know how he got there.
 
excelsiorlef

excelsiorlef

Bad Praxis
Member
Oct 25, 2017
73,325
DragonSJG said:
This movie blows and gave us Bat Nipples and Bat assess
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Counterpoint Schumacher rules

Schumacher added that "I wanted a very sexy, very sensual, very body-hugging suit. It's my Gotham City, and if I want Batman to have nipples, he's going to have nipples!"
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www.denofgeek.com

Batman Forever: Why the Batsuit Had Nipples

Apparently, Batman creator Bob Kane walked around the Batman Forever set going "whoever heard of nipples on the Batsuit?"....
www.denofgeek.com www.denofgeek.com
 
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