Joe Biden's new ad is problematic when it comes to how it talks about China [See Staff Post]

[Deleted member 5359]

Another problem with Biden's as is that it's not really accurate, in that it omits a critical fact that points back to Trump rather than China. Trump didn't confirm a US representative to the WHO for over three years. He created a vacuum and the CCP filled it.

Trump Is Scapegoating the WHO — But Failed to Confirm a U.S. Representative for 3 Years

Trump and the Senate GOP ignored the World Health Organization. Then came the new coronavirus pandemic.

www.vice.com

 

[Eidan]

I think it does matter, because that's exactly the strategy that Trump is trying to use to deflect blame.

White House Pushes U.S. Officials to Criticize China For Coronavirus ‘Cover-Up’

A State Department cable obtained by The Daily Beast says the U.S. and the American people are the “greatest humanitarians the world has ever known.”

www.thedailybeast.com

I think making it about China will only help Trump and the GOP here, this is literally what they are trying to achieve.
It's also bullshit on the merits and will further hurt Asian Americans in the US, but even from a pure realpolitik perspective, I don't think this is an effective way to attack Trump on his horrific handling of this pandemic.

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I think Trump should be attacked on all fronts with regards to his response. China is just one angle, and I'd only be upset about it being mentioned if it was the only angle being worked, which is already not the case.

Beyond the ad, Biden is running for the US presidency. If he didn't mention China, its role in the pandemic, US policy towards it, and Trump's policies in particular with regards to China, that would be weird, and the media would call him out on it.

 

[Deepwater]

I think it does matter, because that's exactly the strategy that Trump is trying to use to deflect blame.

White House Pushes U.S. Officials to Criticize China For Coronavirus ‘Cover-Up’

A State Department cable obtained by The Daily Beast says the U.S. and the American people are the “greatest humanitarians the world has ever known.”

www.thedailybeast.com

I think making it about China will only help Trump and the GOP here, this is literally what they are trying to achieve.
It's also bullshit on the merits and will further hurt Asian Americans in the US, but even from a pure realpolitik perspective, I don't think this is an effective way to attack Trump on his horrific handling of this pandemic.

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Being a China hawk seems to be a net-positive here, when all the criticism can just be painted out as CCP apologism. Too many people in the democratic base (as evidenced by this and many other threads) are very invested in dem politicians being China hawks. Even in a time where our predicament is largely rooted in domestic policy.

of course, Asian and Asian American citizens and residents are collateral damage here. I think the realpolitik of Biden being a China hawk will be effective, because if both sides are shaping the narrative as such, then enough of the country will fall in line. People want revenge.

of course, I'm not sure who's Going to be convinced by this ad that wasn't already for Biden. If "Beijing Biden" was effective with undecided voters, then the situation is more dire than most would admit.

 

[Breqesk]

I think Trump should be attacked on all fronts with regards to his response. China is just one angle, and I'd only be upset about it being mentioned if it was the only angle being worked, which is already not the case.

Beyond the ad, Biden is running for the US presidency. If he didn't mention China, its role in the pandemic, US policy towards it, and Trump's policies in particular with regards to China, that would be weird, and the media would call him out on it.

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You're treating this like a game. It isn't. This kind of rhetoric and imagery gets people harassed at best, killed at worst.

 

[Finalrush]

The ad seems to imply that the issue with the travel ban is that it wasn't strict enough, which I think is nonsense. I'm also not sure "we would have banned travel harder" is really a winning argument against Trump.

And more broadly, the main way this administration and the right wing media that support them is trying deflect blame for their incompetence is by blaming China. This ad doesn't counter that narrative, if anything, is gives it more credence than it deserves.

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No, you know Biden came out from the start as against the China ban. The point of this ad is that Trump is misleadingly stating that he took action on coronavirus with the ban, when clearly he was still letting people through without testing. The point is that Trump is lying about his actions towards China, not that it wasn't "strict" enough. The point is even if Trump says he was taking action with his xenophobia, he STILL failed.

You're treating this like a game. It isn't. This kind of rhetoric and imagery gets people harassed at best, killed at worst.

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Like the 40 thousand people killed while Trump pretended to take this seriously with his shitty China ban? I think the ad is borderline but acting like this is some sort of hate ad is a bit much. This ad is attacking Trump's response, not Chinese people. We should be able to point out the poor choice of words while recognizing the intent.

 

[Chikor]

Being a China hawk seems to be a net-positive here, when all the criticism can just be painted out as CCP apologism. Too many people in the democratic base (as evidenced by this and many other threads) are very invested in dem politicians being China hawks. Even in a time where our predicament is largely rooted in domestic policy.

of course, Asian and Asian American citizens and residents are collateral damage here. I think the realpolitik of Biden being a China hawk will be effective, because if both sides are shaping the narrative as such, then enough of the country will fall in line. People want revenge.

of course, I'm not sure who's Going to be convinced by this ad that wasn't already for Biden. If "Beijing Biden" was effective with undecided voters, then the situation is more dire than most would admit.

Click to shrink...

Democrats tried to play that game throughout the cold war, and even ignoring the terrible policy places it led them to, it was just not terribly effective.
I think there's nothing that the GOP would want more than to make it about who will be tougher on an evil scary country.

The point is that Trump is lying about his actions towards China, not that it wasn't "strict" enough.

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This is not how I read stuff like this -

 

[platocplx]

yeah this should've been way more about the CCP and their leadership.

 

[Deepwater]

Democrats tried to play that game throughout the cold war, and even ignoring the terrible policy places it led them to, it was just not terribly effective.
I think there's nothing that the GOP would want more than to make it about who will be tougher on an evil scary country.


This is not how I read stuff like this -

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no you're right, they absolutely will lose on a tough-on-China fight. Facts be damned cause they sure as hell don't

 

[Breqesk]

No, you know Biden came out from the start as against the China ban. The point of this ad is that Trump is misleadingly stating that he took action on coronavirus with the ban, when clearly he was still letting people through without testing. The point is that Trump is lying about his actions towards China, not that it wasn't "strict" enough. The point is even if Trump says he was taking action with his xenophobia, he STILL failed.


Like the 40 thousand people killed while Trump pretended to take this seriously with his shitty China ban? I think the ad is borderline but acting like this is some sort of hate ad is a bit much.

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Trump is a hateful monster. This ad is a hateful dogwhistle that trades in the kind of xenophobic yellow peril rhetoric that has lead to the racist harassment, assault, and in some cases murder of Asian people in the West. Both of these things can be true.

 

[Finalrush]

This is not how I read stuff like this -

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Trump is trying to frame himself as taking early action with his China ban. Biden said it was xenophobic and is pointing out that the "ban" wasn't even functional. It's an attack on Trump, like saying "the wall isn't even being built". Saying that doesn't mean we want a wall.

Trump is a hateful monster. This ad is a hateful dogwhistle that trades in the kind of xenophobic yellow peril rhetoric that has lead to the murder and harassment of Asian people in the West. Both of these things can be true.

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The difference is one has room for interpretation. Clearly there is dispute not only among white Americans but Asian Americans in this thread as well about whether or not this is intentionally xenophobic.

I agree that it can come across that way and they MUST do better, but I think it's also pretty clear in my opinion that this is an attack ad on Trump and potentially the CCP, not Chinese people.

Painting this as a "both sides" thing, to me, is downplaying the disgusting xenophobia of Trump.

 

[Deleted member 2761]

No, you know Biden came out from the start as against the China ban. The point of this ad is that Trump is misleadingly stating that he took action on coronavirus with the ban, when clearly he was still letting people through without testing. The point is that Trump is lying about his actions towards China, not that it wasn't "strict" enough. The point is even if Trump says he was taking action with his xenophobia, he STILL failed.


Like the 40 thousand people killed while Trump pretended to take this seriously with his shitty China ban? I think the ad is borderline but acting like this is some sort of hate ad is a bit much. This ad is attacking Trump's response, not Chinese people. We should be able to point out the poor choice of words while recognizing the intent.

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Arguing about intent is pointless. Whether Biden meant it or not, he's put Asian-American lives at risk. You don't get to act dismissive about that.

 

[Deleted member 48897]

The ad did not call the 40,000 people Chinese.

Trump's administration has been attempting to paint its ban on travel from China as proof of them taking the coronavirus seriously. Biden's campaign is poking holes in that argument.

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You're right that the 40,000 people are just called "travelers from China" but the problem is that it paints the travel ban as justified when it's the same racist song and dance from the guy who made that kind of thing his day-one policy to enforce. We still let in people from outside of China, including countries that had significant exposure to the virus, and that's almost certainly where it came from. The travel ban didn't mean shit, and it's bad for the ad to play it up as legitimate policy that could have helped if it was enforced more strongly, not letting in anyone from China.

There's also the matter, as mentioned, of the majority of those people being Americans -- where the hell else are we going to put them, if not somewhere in this country where we can monitor them in hopes of containing the outbreak? Why block them from returning when their only sin was exposure to a virus that came basically out of nowhere?

The non-racist read in a political ad shouldn't require this much digging and hedging to reach. There's no better argument against Trump's Eurocentrism of convenience (well, white supremacy) than the way that it allowed the virus to spread here, but it's not the angle that the ad takes. (Honestly, Biden has a lot of really bad foreign policy acts that make it hard for me to want to give him the benefit of the doubt here, like his palling around with Netanyahu and his appointment of a Hindu fundamentalist as his Muslim outreach coordinator.)

 

[LukeOP]

I still don't understand how having Americans in China would have helped.

The reason why America is being ravaged by coronavirus has nothing to do with the lack of American medical professionals in China.

 

[Finalrush]

Arguing about intent is pointless. Whether Biden meant it or not, he's put Asian-American lives at risk. You don't get to act dismissive about that.

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The intent matters because you're inferring the ramifications of his word choices. You're saying matter of factly that this ad will put Asian Americans at risk, but if the majority of people are perceiving the intent as "Trump failed to listen to the facts" that's very different than if they think the intent is a call to arms against Asian Americans.

 

[Finalrush]

Arguing about intent is pointless. Whether Biden meant it or not, he's put Asian-American lives at risk. You don't get to act dismissive about that.

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The intent matters because you're inferring the ramifications of his word choices. You're saying matter of factly that this ad will put Asian Americans at risk, but if the majority of people are perceiving the intent as "Trump failed to listen to the facts" that's very different than if they think the intent is a call to arms against Asian Americans.

I still don't understand how having Americans in China would have helped.

The reason why America is being ravaged by coronavirus has nothing to do with the lack of American medical professionals in China.

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Because we were relying on information from China which was seemingly unreliable.

 

[spam musubi]

The intent matters because you're inferring the ramifications of his word choices. You're saying matter of factly that this ad will put Asian Americans at risk, but if the majority of people are perceiving the intent as "Trump failed to listen to the facts" that's very different than if they think the intent is a call to arms against Asian Americans.

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It only takes a handful of people to harass and doxx and swat people.

 

[Xaszatm]

The intent matters because you're inferring the ramifications of his word choices. You're saying matter of factly that this ad will put Asian Americans at risk, but if the majority of people are perceiving the intent as "Trump failed to listen to the facts" that's very different than if they think the intent is a call to arms against Asian Americans.


Because we were relying on information from China which was seemingly unreliable.

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Asian Americans are already at risk. This just intensifies the problem.

 

[Terra Torment]

The intent matters because you're inferring the ramifications of his word choices. You're saying matter of factly that this ad will put Asian Americans at risk, but if the majority of people are perceiving the intent as "Trump failed to listen to the facts" that's very different than if they think the intent is a call to arms against Asian Americans.

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it's almost like words and actions have consequences regardless of deeply held feelings or intent and that we have a responsibility to consider those consequences before acting.

 

[Equippedwithtowel]

Are dems gonna own the pivot away from "they go low, we go high" or is it going to awkwardly pop up at the convention after being consistently undermined in all their messaging

because it seems like that's where we're heading

 

[Deleted member 2761]

The intent matters because you're inferring the ramifications of his word choices. You're saying matter of factly that this ad will put Asian Americans at risk, but if the majority of people are perceiving the intent as "Trump failed to listen to the facts" that's very different than if they think the intent is a call to arms against Asian Americans.

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Sorry, but what the shit? Do you think the attacks and hate crimes against Asians as of late just spontaneously manifested out of thin air? Almost every single one of us has had to deal with racist incidents as of late, and we're lucky if it's just slurs that have been hurled at us. If it were about the "facts" and "intent", everything would have been hunky dory, because there wouldn't be a sudden rise to a 100 attacks PER DAY.

What's absolutely certain is that there's a fucking media narrative that's contributed all this pain and suffering, and Joe Biden has contributed to that. Full stop.

 

[Finalrush]

Sorry, but what the shit? Do you think the attacks and hate crimes against Asians as of late just spontaneously manifested out of thin air? Almost every single one of us has had to deal with racist incidents as of late, and we're lucky if it's just slurs that have been hurled at us. If it were about the "facts" and "intent", everything would have been hunky dory, because there wouldn't be a sudden rise to a 100 attacks PER DAY.

What's absolutely certain is that there's a fucking media narrative that's contributed all this pain and suffering, and Joe Biden has contributed to that. Full stop.

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I'm disputing whether not this particular ad is contributing to that, not that there hasn't been a xenophobic environment created by Trump and the far right in regards to the virus, which I think they clearly have. Anyway, judging by the responses maybe this is something I need to reflect on more, and I will.

 

[Flame Flamey]

I'm disputing whether not this particular ad is contributing to that, not that there hasn't been a xenophobic environment created by Trump and the far right in regards to the virus, which I think they clearly have. Anyway, judging by the responses maybe this is something I need to reflect on more, and I will.

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To me it seems very clear how an ad like this, regardless of intention, would contribute to stoking the anti-Asian sentiment my family and I have suffered,

You should read the staff post at the bottom of the page: " Second, this fact is going to upset some people. It's important to be sensitive to our Asian members in this thread, and in other threads frankly. There is room to disagree about the intentions and success of the ad - there is not room to disagree on the rest."

 

[arcadepc]

They've been calling them "the Russians" for the last 70 years.

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Soviets too

 

[Finalrush]

To me it seems very clear how an ad like this, regardless of intention, would contribute to stoking the anti-Asian sentiment my family and I have suffered,

You should read the staff post at the bottom of the page: " Second, this fact is going to upset some people. It's important to be sensitive to our Asian members in this thread, and in other threads frankly. There is room to disagree about the intentions and success of the ad - there is not room to disagree on the rest."

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As far as I can tell I'm 100% in agreement with the staff post that it's important to be careful about language and xenophobia should be taken seriously. As I already stated, the Biden campaign NEEDS to do better. I do however think debating about the nuances of how this ad contributes to a culture of xenophobia is completely fair game. I do think I was underplaying the consequences too much earlier and I apologize for that.

 

[Supermanisdead]

The bar is on the fucking floor against Trump this election and this pervry racist keeps tripping over it. What a fucking joke this is. Add another group to the list of people that I can't blame for refusing to vote for Biden. So far it's *checks notes* people who have issues with xenophobic yellow peril fearmongering and sexual assault. Great job, Democrats. You really picked a good one this time. But thank God his policies are left of the guy who routinely blew up hospitals and weddings!

 

[purplemonkey111]

So...just like the "Are white people racist" thread. I'm seeing people more concerned with not being labled a racist, rather than deal with issue of how the ad is racist, and will stoke more Asian American hostility.

KEY WORD: ASIAN AMERICANS.

It doesn't matter to racists if we are from Japan, Korea, Philippines, Vietnam or any of the other countries not China, to a racist we are all chinese. But according to another poster, we are just collaterals in the race to beat trump.

So what will be the next "Collaterals"? The Hispanics? The African Americans? The Arabs(Middle East Nationals) ? Will they also be collateral to beat trump next? Because if Bien are willing to throw the "Model Minority" under the bus, what does that really say about how they feel about minorities, except as guarantee votes.

Before the Covid-19 situation, during the North Korea missle , I had to deal with jokes about Kim Jon Un, and North Korea, now I have to deal with people associating me and my friends with China and the pandemic.

 

[Deleted member 6949]

Are dems gonna own the pivot away from "they go low, we go high" or is it going to awkwardly pop up at the convention after being consistently undermined in all their messaging

because it seems like that's where we're heading

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"When they go low, we go high" works on Price is Right rules, where the goal is to go exactly 1 higher than your opponent.

 

[MM300]

So...just like the "Are white people racist" thread. I'm seeing people more concerned with not being labled a racist, rather than deal with issue of how the ad is racist, and will stoke more Asian American hostility.

KEY WORD: ASIAN AMERICANS.

It doesn't matter to racists if we are from Japan, Korea, Philippines, Vietnam or any of the other countries not China, to a racist we are all chinese. But according to another poster, we are just collaterals in the race to beat trump.

So what will be the next "Collaterals"? The Hispanics? The African Americans? The Arabs(Middle East Nationals) ? Will they also be collateral to beat trump next? Because if Bien are willing to throw the "Model Minority" under the bus, what does that really say about how they feel about minorities, except as guarantee votes.

Before the Covid-19 situation, during the North Korea missle , I had to deal with jokes about Kim Jon Un, and North Korea, now I have to deal with people associating me and my friends with China and the pandemic.

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It's the whole "you got to break a few eggs to make an omelet," and "the end justify the means," mentality too many people have. Fact of the matter is, people who aren't Asian-Americans aren't experiencing what we're experiencing. They have little to no idea what we're dealing with. These people literally live on a different planet from us. A position of comfort and privilege, one could say. All they care about is winning this November, which IS pretty important, but they don't care who they have to trample over to get there. And the thing is, they don't even seem to realize that victory is not assured. If the Dems lose in November, what do they have to show for it? Just a large amount of very angry people that they've left in their wake.

 

[Xaszatm]

This is why we are concerned with any ads that might be misconstrued. Biden's ad does not help this situation. I am worried for my own safety right now and that ad doesn't make things beter.

 

[Rehynn]

This is why we are concerned with any ads that might be misconstrued. Biden's ad does not help this situation. I am worried for my own safety right now and that ad doesn't make things beter.

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Honest question: How could one make an ad calling out the Chinese government's responsibility in the spread of the virus (one aim of the ad is to counter the GOP narrative that Biden is soft on China) and hold Trump's feet to the fire for his responsibility in the matter while also challenging people's racism? Is it a matter of wording only or also of substance?

 

[Chairmanchuck (另一个我)]

Honest question: How could one make an ad calling out the Chinese government's responsibility in the spread of the virus (one aim of the ad is to counter the GOP narrative that Biden is soft on China) and hold Trump's feet to the fire for his responsibility in the matter while also challenging people's racism? Is it a matter of wording only or also of substance?

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Ad is using "the Chinese" instead of the chinese government.

Furthermore the part about "40k travellers from China came here during the travel ban", which most people will interpret as "40k Chinese came here and spread Corona". It also isnt true, since the first Corona cases in the US came mostly from European travellers.

 

[Seductivpancakes]

Honest question: How could one make an ad calling out the Chinese government's responsibility in the spread of the virus (one aim of the ad is to counter the GOP narrative that Biden is soft on China) and hold Trump's feet to the fire for his responsibility in the matter while also challenging people's racism? Is it a matter of wording only or also of substance?

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Honestly it's a black mark that Biden's even attempting to seduce Trump's supporters over to his side by dangling promised xenophobia as bait.

 

[KingKong]

Honest question: How could one make an ad calling out the Chinese government's responsibility in the spread of the virus (one aim of the ad is to counter the GOP narrative that Biden is soft on China) and hold Trump's feet to the fire for his responsibility in the matter while also challenging people's racism? Is it a matter of wording only or also of substance?

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I would look at the workers in China dressed in full protective gear with robots that spray disinfectant and compare it to our nurses having to wear garbage bags and be too embarrassed to make any ad

 

[Dude Abides]

Be prepared for 6 more months of shit like this. Democrats decided they wanted a candidate who could appeal to the middle by aping right-wing shitbaggery, and they got him.

 

[ABIC]

I don't think it's just 6 more months of this.

It's probably closer to 30 years of this.

Rising superpower threatens the global status quo, and this will dramatically change long term planning for the pentagon and the allocation of trillions of dollars over the next couple decades. I am a pessimist with regards to this situation and I think tensions with Asians in general will rise over the next couple of decades as the "model minority" stereotype shifts quickly to now fund envy and hate.

The only thing that will effectively counter this is the speed at which American Asians integrate into America -- not just by living in every suburb and city, but also visible presence in its politics and way of life (e.g. Hollywood entertainment).

It's going to be a tense few decades, stay safe y'all

 

[smisk]

Did someone dig up that tweet yet about Democrats responding to Trump by getting more racist? China had some missteps for sure but ultimately they've responded to the pandemic far better than our own country, and there is plenty of ammunition to fling at Trump and the GOP. I really think this whole line of attack serves to perpetuate xenophobia more than anything, and probably leads to more racism against people of Asian descent.

 

[Sibylus]

I don't think it's just 6 more months of this.

It's probably closer to 30 years of this.

Rising superpower threatens the global status quo, and this will dramatically change long term planning for the pentagon and the allocation of trillions of dollars over the next couple decades. I am a pessimist with regards to this situation and I think tensions with Asians in general will rise over the next couple of decades as the "model minority" stereotype shifts quickly to now fund envy and hate.

The only thing that will effectively counter this is the speed at which American Asians integrate into America -- not just by living in every suburb and city, but also visible presence in its politics and way of life (e.g. Hollywood entertainment).

It's going to be a tense few decades, stay safe y'all

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The ruling class wants a new cold war, and it wants it now.

 

[Seductivpancakes]

Did someone dig up that tweet yet about Democrats responding to Trump by getting more racist? China had some missteps for sure but ultimately they've responded to the pandemic far better than our own country, and there is plenty of ammunition to fling at Trump and the GOP. I really think this whole line of attack serves to perpetuate xenophobia more than anything, and probably leads to more racism against people of Asian descent.

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I think the whole point was to win over some Trump supporters. Any shit you can dig up on Trump from these 4 years, his voters will dismiss em as propaganda and lies, but if you tell them, Trump isn't racist enough like he promised, they might listen.

 

[Rehynn]

Ad is using "the Chinese" instead of the chinese government.

Furthermore the part about "40k travellers from China came here during the travel ban", which most people will interpret as "40k Chinese came here and spread Corona". It also isnt true, since the first Corona cases in the US came mostly from European travellers.

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Well, yeah, but we do that with every single country. That said, it doesn't mean it can't be peoblematic, so yeah, adding "government" may indeed help.

But I also think you can only do so much verbal gymnastics when tackling divisive issues to prevent certain people from using it to justify their prejudice. I personally would absolutely appreciate if Biden took a harder stance on China, but I also obviously don't want to see bystanders get hurt in any way and keep wondering how it could be done.

 

[Aarglefarg]

There's an update to this. On the 15th of May, the Biden campaign tweeted a revision of this ad which fixed the problems. The campaign got the message.

Joe Biden on Twitter

“Donald Trump can deflect and shift blame all he wants, but the hard truth is he failed to protect our nation from the worst public health and economic crisis in our lifetime. https://t.co/5kHQnJrK2a”

twitter.com

 

[Rehynn]

There's an update to this. On the 15th of May, the Biden campaign tweeted a revision of this ad which fixed the problems. The campaign got the message.

Joe Biden on Twitter

“Donald Trump can deflect and shift blame all he wants, but the hard truth is he failed to protect our nation from the worst public health and economic crisis in our lifetime. https://t.co/5kHQnJrK2a”

twitter.com

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Oh wow, that was unexpected. I thought they were more OK than not with the xenophobic overtones for their Rust Belt messaging.