Joe Biden doesn't "yet know the motive" behind white gunman's attack that left 8 Asian women dead

[Joeytj]

Some of you guys here are getting worked up over nothing because you barely spend time outside of your own online bubbles. People start affirming that what Biden said is self-evidently wrong, no questions asked, when that isn't the case.

Biden specifically put the "we don't know the motive yet" precisely because some media outlets and local authorities were running with the shooter's own description of his motives before there was any investigation. But we don't know yet. He infers racism with the rest of his tweet and other statements he's given today. He's the president, and after 4 years of Trump it might be weird to see a president deferring definitive statements about motive and suspects to the proper authorities, but Biden can't go and just state for a fact specifics like motive, suspects, etc.

It's always been like this with Biden. People really just decide right away he's saying everything for the wrong reasons or something.

 

[asun]

This is enormously frustrating. Replace what just happened with a synagogue or gay night club. In both those horrific cases, President Obama rightly called them out as acts of terror and hate. He also called out the need to actively combat them. There was no need to speculate on motivation.

 

[Cat Party]

This is enormously frustrating. Replace what just happened with a synagogue or gay night club. In both those horrific cases, President Obama rightly called them out as acts of terror and hate. He also called out the need to actively combat them. There was no need to speculate on motivation.

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Honest question (because I don't recall): did Obama condemn them as such within 24 hours?

 

[Poltergust]

legally, one means the executive federal government is saying this is a hate crime. The other means Biden believes this is another attack on Asian Americans and the executive currently doesn't have enough evidence to imply motive.

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That doesn't work here. Unlike a random employee speaking their opinion on matters, Biden is the Executive. It's not possible to decouple Biden from his office unless he's no longer POTUS.

Remember Trump? I wish I didn't. He was an atrocity, but it's not possible to disconnect him from his office during the time he was POTUS, no matter how terrible of a person he was. Biden is no exception to any of this. His thoughts are the thoughts of the Executive, and it doesn't matter what kinds of disclaimers he'd put out otherwise if he's going to reveal his own opinion on the matter anyways.

 

[Mekanos]

Some of you guys here are getting worked up over nothing because you barely spend time outside of your own online bubbles.

Biden specifically put the "we don't know the motive yet" precisely because some media outlets and local authorities were running with the shooter's own description of his motives before there was any investigation. But we don't know yet. He infers racism with the rest of his tweet and other statements he's given today.

It's always been like this with Biden. People really just decide right away he's saying everything for the wrong reasons or something.

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Ah right, I forgot Biden is god king and is always right and we, the peasants, should shut up and know our place. Thanks for setting the record straight.

 

[mugurumakensei]

Honest question (because I don't recall): did Obama condemn them as such within 24 hours?

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from the Orlando shooting

We are still learning all the facts. This is an open investigation. We've reached no definitive judgment on the precise motivations of the killer.

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It was called an attack and an act of hate but it still had this disclaimer attached to it.

 

[Something Creative]

To be blunt, you're making significant assumptions of both the strength of the implication and the strength of the disclaimer disavowing any implication, neither of which you can substantiate.

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I just assumed mugurumakensei was a Biden insider:

Legal department caught the implication and thus its amended to say "while we don't know motive"

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[Laughing Banana]

I'd also like to know how many of those calling for outrage for this tweet are you know... actually asians.

And don't fucking lie.

Or is this another case of trying to speak or be outraged for us?

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So what, people need your permission or validate their "Asian-ness" to you first before they can be mad or criticize the way Biden handled this?

You said you don't like when people speak or be outraged about "us", and yet the way you said it makes it your opinion represents all of Asians in the world. "Don't speak for us", but what if some of "us" want to speak about this? We can't be mad about this?

 

[Darkmaigle]

You hear that y'all, worked up over nothing fucking take a chill pill go on about your day like 6 Asian women weren't just gunned down, get out of your online bubbles

 

[Xiaomi]

I just assumed mugurumakensei was a Biden insider:

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why would a biden insider call the white house counsel "the legal department"

edit - missed a sarcasm

 

[Joeytj]

Ah right, I forgot Biden is god king and is always right and we, the peasants, should shut up and know our place. Thanks for setting the record straight.

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We all know he doesn't even actually write his own tweets. That video of his actual words about the subject of anti-Asian violence and last night's attack is much more important (and better) than whatever Twitter statement the White House puts out. If people are going to make threads about what Biden thinks about the issue, at least make them about that.

And no, he's not a god king and you can go through my own history and see how he wasn't my preferred candidate either, and I've criticized him plenty as well for policy positions and past political decisions.

But because he's already proved a lot of us wrong time and time again since he announced he was running for president back in 2019, I've learned to actually just not think the worst of his... what, tweets?

 

[Deleted member 24907]

I guess I just don't know why it's so difficult to call it a hate crime when the fucker literally shouted he wanted to kill Asian women.

Yes it's important to not spread misinformation at a volatile time immediately following an act of terror. But I personally consider hemming and hawwing around labeling acts of terror as hate-crimes as a kind of misinformation. With the news cycles as rapid as they currently are, people stop paying attention quickly. Failing to properly specify when something like this is a hate-crime lets people tune out without getting the full picture.

 

[lmcfigs]

i get the anger. I do wish he took a stronger position, rather than just parroting what the police statements have said wrt the motive

 

[Acquiesc3]

So what, people need your permission or validate their "Asian-ness" to you first before they can be mad or criticize the way Biden handled this?

You said you don't like when people speak or be outraged about "us", and yet the way you said it makes it your opinion represents all of Asians in the world. "Don't speak for us", but what if some of "us" want to speak about this? We can't be mad about this?

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You are literally putting words in my mouth. Fuck off.

 

[NewErakid]

idk, I think some people are attempting to paint biden's tweet in the worst possible light. can't you also take it as a sign that the president doesn't want to endorse the "official" line from the murderer and the georgia fuckass sherriff that the shooter was simply a frustrated sex addict who coincidentally murdered a bunch of asian women at massage parlors with no racial motive? what's "obvious" for us to casually talk about on a message board isn't quite the same as what's "obvious" or responsible for a person in power to tweet and while i think it's clear this was a hate crime i don't know what ratio of racist to incel it was.

tho as to the thread title, weren't 6/8 of the victims asian women and the other two a white woman and white man? not to downplay anything, i figure that's just an oversight. it doesn't make it not a hate crime because he also ended up killing people he wasn't specifically out there to target.

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Yeah I agree with this I don't expect any person a position of power to come out with a definitive statement like that until after an investigation even if they're 99 percent sure it was a hate crime.

 

[Laughing Banana]

You are literally putting words in my mouth. Fuck off.

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Uh huh.

Seems so strange for me that we have Asian members here who are clearly upset about this (I'm asian too, btw), and then we have people coming in and say "I am asian and I'm not mad. Why you guys are mad though? You guys being mad doesn't mean that we ALL mad, btw."

Like, really now?

 

[mugurumakensei]

I guess I just don't know why it's so difficult to call it a hate crime when the fucker literally shouted he wanted to kill Asian women.

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Is there a source on that?
The quoted site is chosun.com which doesn't mention the wanting to kill all Asians statement in the English version.

4 Korean Americans Killed in Atlanta Shooting Spree

Eight people of mostly Asian descent were killed and another wounded in a shooting rampage at three…

english.chosun.com

 

[Superman00]

As an Asian American. Why not direct that hate and anger towards white supremecist and apologist like the sheriff? Like I understand Biden should have harsher words but it has been a day.

 

[DrForester]

I kind of get that he wants to be cautious but it's frustrsting he holds back.

 

[lmcfigs]

idk, I think some people are attempting to paint biden's tweet in the worst possible light. can't you also take it as a sign that the president doesn't want to endorse the "official" line from the murderer and the georgia fuckass sherriff that the shooter was simply a frustrated sex addict who coincidentally murdered a bunch of asian women at massage parlors with no racial motive? what's "obvious" for us to casually talk about on a message board isn't quite the same as what's "obvious" or responsible for a person in power to tweet and while i think it's clear this was a hate crime i don't know what ratio of racist to incel it was.

tho as to the thread title, weren't 6/8 of the victims asian women and the other two a white woman and white man? not to downplay anything, i figure that's just an oversight. it doesn't make it not a hate crime because he also ended up killing people he wasn't specifically out there to target.

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i think this is reasonable. but then i thought about how i'd feel if a black business was shot up and Biden tweeted "well gee idk what the motive could have possibly been". i would be pretty upset about it too. of course, Biden doesn't write his tweets and all that etc - so it's hard to get mad him personally for this.

 

[Wilf Netherton]

Yeah I agree with this I don't expect any person a position of power to come out with a definitive statement like that until after an investigation even if they're 99 percent sure it was a hate crime.

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Donald Trump was rightfully pilloried for refusing to call the Charlottesville attack an act driven by racial hatred. No one of good faith gave him the benefit of the doubt because an investigation hadn't concluded yet. Why try to make something that's necessary from the President, like condemning a hate crime that shocks the conscience of the nation, into something the President should not do?

 

[asun]

from the Orlando shooting




It was called an attack and an act of hate but it still had this disclaimer attached to it.

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It was more than just that statement though. It was also the following:

The FBI is appropriately investigating this as an act of terrorism. And I've directed that we must spare no effort to determine what—if any—inspiration or association this killer may have had with terrorist groups. What is clear is that he was a person filled with hatred. Over the coming days, we'll uncover why and how this happened, and we will go wherever the facts lead us.

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The disclaimer was focused on specific motivations, what groups he was aligned with, and where it might lead. It wasn't a generic statement devoid of meaningful context. He also focused on the victims and the ease by which mass shootings happen. All were way more meaningful than just a thoughts and prayers and who could have known why this happened type of statement.

My mother is elderly, and I'm terrified for her safety. I expected more from a presidential response than what we got.

 

[Laughing Banana]

Donald Trump was rightfully pilloried for refusing to call the Charlottesville attack an act driven by racial hatred. No one of good faith gave him the benefit of the doubt because an investigation hadn't concluded yet. Why try to make something that's necessary from the President, like condemning a hate crime that shocks the conscience of the nation, into something the President should not do?

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That's a good point about Trump and the Charlottesville attack.

 

[Deleted member 24907]

Is there a source on that?
The quoted site is chosun.com which doesn't mention the wanting to kill all Asians statement in the English version.

4 Korean Americans Killed in Atlanta Shooting Spree

Eight people of mostly Asian descent were killed and another wounded in a shooting rampage at three…

english.chosun.com

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Korean-language sources were mentioning it. Dunno if it's not making the rounds because it's not reputable, or because of a language barrier.

 

[Codeblue]

As an Asian American. Why not direct that hate and anger towards white supremecist and apologist like the sheriff? Like I understand Biden should have harsher words but it has been a day.

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You can direct anger in multiple directions.

 

[mugurumakensei]

Korean-language sources were mentioning it. Dunno if it's not making the rounds because it's not reputable, or because of a language barrier.

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I posted the English version of the first source translated by said source themselves.

 

[Deleted member 62221]

As an Asian American. Why not direct that hate and anger towards white supremecist and apologist like the sheriff? Like I understand Biden should have harsher words but it has been a day.

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What hate? that Biden gets criticized doesn't mean they hate him. Also people can do 2 things at once, pretty sure people already expressed their outrage at the sheriff during the day. That you criticize Biden (or his pr team) doesn't mean that you somehow are giving a free pass to white supremacy, come on.

This thread is full of fragility. Biden is not Trump, he won't make a tantrum because people made a thread in a gaming forum to complain about his tweet so why are people so defensive?

 

[Deleted member 24907]

I posted the English version of the first source translated by said source themselves.

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Huh, that's bizarre. I'm not sure why the translation is missing that information.

 

[Superman00]

What hate? that Biden gets criticized doesn't mean they hate him. Also people can do 2 things at once, pretty sure people already expressed their outrage at the sheriff during the day. That you criticize Biden (or his pr team) doesn't mean that you somehow are giving a free pass to white supremacy, come on.

This thread is full of fragility. Biden is not Trump, he won't make a tantrum because people made a thread in a gaming forum to complain about his tweet so why are people so defensive?

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Let be serious this isn't the first thread where any little thing Biden does get thrown out of proportion. Wade into any of the stimulus and politic threads and see for yourself. Biden isn't even someone I would have voted for if not for Trump.

I live in the DMV, there are a lot of Asians here. I have tons of Asian friends. No one is even talking about Biden tweet except Era. Everyone is talking about what happen and the police press conference.

 

[Deleted member 62221]

Let be serious this isn't the first thread where any little thing Biden does get thrown out of proportion. Wade into any of the stimulus and politic threads and see for yourself. Biden isn't even someone I would have voted for if not for Trump.

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Irrelevant. Also "out of proportion" is kinda rich, people are making threads in a forum about stuff they don't like, they are not protesting in front of the White House.

 

[Kyra]

There is taking a step back and then there's stepping in shit Joe.

 

[TheHunter]

Donald Trump was rightfully pilloried for refusing to call the Charlottesville attack an act driven by racial hatred. No one of good faith gave him the benefit of the doubt because an investigation hadn't concluded yet. Why try to make something that's necessary from the President, like condemning a hate crime that shocks the conscience of the nation, into something the President should not do?

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Because Trump called Nazis good people.

Biden is not doing that here.

 

[Gwenpoolshark]

Man oh man I'm glad we restored the soul of this nation.

 

[Deleted member 4461]

Yeah, even if I could be charitable, fact is the extra sentence was unnecessary.

On that note, even IF the motive was because he was a sex addict, there's still a lot to unpack with whom he decided to blame for that sex addiction.

In short, no matter if you believe him or not, the conclusion is the exact same. IMO.

 

[Something Creative]

As an Asian American. Why not direct that hate and anger towards white supremecist and apologist like the sheriff? Like I understand Biden should have harsher words but it has been a day.

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Why are you characterizing people's thoughts in here as "hate and anger" toward Biden? And can't people be both disappointed in his response and also have hatred toward white supremacists? Yes they can.

Let be serious this isn't the first thread where any little thing Biden does get thrown out of proportion. Wade into any of the stimulus and politic threads and see for yourself. Biden isn't even someone I would have voted for if not for Trump.

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In return you offer another example of fragility? Please provide an argument about how Biden doesn't warrant criticism instead of hand-wringing and exaggerating. It's not helpful.

 

[Superman00]

Irrelevant. Also "out of proportion" is kinda rich, people are making threads in a forum about stuff they don't like, they are not protesting in front of the White House.

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It say a lot when this thread already have half the posts of the main thread when it's created a day later.

 

[Tatsu91]

The President knows better than opining about a situation that has nothing to do with him directly the day after it happened. And using the situation to segue into talking about gun control would just get people and his political allies upset.

Best to have all the facts before saying anything definitive, while condemning all senseless violence, and speaking to the general inclusivity of asian Americans.

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This pretty much i am sure he more than damn well knows and is just saving face for his political opposition watching as the wrong words can be used against him

 

[Deleted member 62221]

It say a lot when this thread already have half the posts of the main thread when it's created a day later.

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Are you trying to make a point here?

 

[Nilou]

This thread is being temporarily locked while we comb through the replies.

 

[Deleted member 278]

There's a lot of talking past each other in this thread.

Most critics of the Biden statement are not suggesting that Biden is doing anything deliberately malicious. The main criticism is that he did not have to say that the motive was unknown, that he could have left that part out entirely, and that including it is a blunder that might give cover to those who want to blame anything other than racism.

You do not have to agree with that criticism, but it's not an unreasonable one, and at this highly sensitive moment it should be treated respectfully and not with scorn.

We're reopening this thread and asking all posters to observe the following:

1. When you disagree do so in a civil and respectful way. Please keep in mind that many people are justifiably upset and many are worried for their friends and their families.

2. Make sure you're addressing the actual points other posters are making, and not attacking strawmen.

 

[Yasuke]

Not sure why Biden is calling it un-American. I personally cannot think of anything more American than a racially motivated mass killing.

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It's so exhausting. As a society, we generally accept change can't occur until you admit there's a problem that needs fixing, but those in power routinely turn their noses up at the idea that our country is very, very sick. So the disease spreads.

 

[Arrogant PsycHOPathy]

Heard them talking on the radio this morning about this. Any confirmation yet that this was motivated by racist intent or a "born-again-Christian-prostitution-is bad-but-I -keep-sinning" narrative I also heard. I mean I can see both being plausible...perhaps at the same time.

 

[Titanpaul]

 

[bdbdbd]

Donald Trump was rightfully pilloried for refusing to call the Charlottesville attack an act driven by racial hatred. No one of good faith gave him the benefit of the doubt because an investigation hadn't concluded yet. Why try to make something that's necessary from the President, like condemning a hate crime that shocks the conscience of the nation, into something the President should not do?

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Trump was pilloried because he couldn't *first of all* condemn the white supremacist march in Charlottesville for what it was, there's a completely different context there. And Biden is condemning the act itself here, he's just not speculating on the exact motivation.

 

[Deleted member 69501]

There's a lot of talking past each other in this thread.

Most critics of the Biden statement are not suggesting that Biden is doing anything deliberately malicious. The main criticism is that he did not have to say that the motive was unknown, that he could have left that part out entirely, and that including it is a blunder that might give cover to those who want to blame anything other than racism.

You do not have to agree with that criticism, but it's not an unreasonable one, and at this highly sensitive moment it should be treated respectfully and not with scorn.

We're reopening this thread and asking all posters to observe the following:

1. When you disagree do so in a civil and respectful way. Please keep in mind that many people are justifiably upset and many are worried for their friends and their families.

2. Make sure you're addressing the actual points other posters are making, and not attacking strawmen.

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Tbf, based on the information that's available we really cannot say what this individuals motives were/are.

Also, I think if we've learned one thing about biden is that he's going to tow a line very often. More often than not it'll be okay but it'll certainly alienate ppl who want a more forcefull reponse to issues of this kind of nature.

IN my personal opinion, I've seen how certain media outlets react when even the idea of race comes into play. It's frustrating, it's disappointing, it's embarassing, but in my view it informs how Biden, at least in that tweet, responded. Because in this America if a clear motive is identified, and it was NOT race related. Can you imagine the media storm that would ensue?

 

[TheZynster]

What are the best donation options out of state for this occurrence?

 

[Seductivpancakes]

Tbf, based on the information that's available we really cannot say what this individuals motives were/are.

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Maybe not for white people.

 

[shadowsdarknes]

Biden probably didn't need to mention that the motive was unknown. Seems like a forced error on his part. Especially when it was almost certainly going to turn out to be a hate crime.

Something like "More details to come regarding the subjects motive" at least implies that we might get more specific details that confirms or contextualizes the violence.

 

[Slash]

I think they know what the motive is, but they aren't saying it for PR/legal reasons. This makes it clear that they're connecting it to racist hate crimes.

 

[mAcOdIn]

I don't see how it's not a hate crime myself, even if he's being honest. Even if it was anti-prostitution it's still a hatred against women but deeper than that prostitution is common and it ain't just massage parlors that's associated with prostitution so for that to be his choice definitely shows a bias, even if subconscious, he either hated Asians or had some kind of Asian fetish where they were too tempting to him or some shit. I don't see why we expect all racially motivated crimes to be done by self-avowed racists.

Edit:. Basically, if your fucked up world view causes you to accidentally commit a hate crime while you yourself were just going for indescriminate crime, you're still a racist and you still did a hate crime.