Where one might look upon a wide open space and see infinite possibilities, another might simply see emptiness.
And some might be agoraphobic and turn around and run right back to a safe place.
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JJ Abrams on The Last Jedi
- Thread starter Bor Gullet
- Start date
And some might be agoraphobic and turn around and run right back to a safe place.
People who post in spoiler threads and then post coy stuff in non-spoiler threads are the worst
That's sort of the primary issue a lot of people have with the film though - that it's obvious Rian thought Rey and Kylo were the most interesting characters, and gave pretty much everyone else (apart from Luke) a B-tier storyline.
Comparatively, Empire was able to make Han and Leia's storyline equally as interesting as Luke's in that movie. They used suspense, romance, action, etc. While the B-story in TLJ had some of that, it was either half-assed, or ultimately didn't matter in the grand scheme of the plot at all.
I disagree - especially given how much the ST has featured OT characters.
I almost forgot that it was Rian who made Luke look like a hobo.
Let's also not forget that JJ's original plan was to have a bunch of rocks and boulders floating around Luke - showing his power with the force - but Rian had him change it. Not saying this for the sake of argument, just discussion.
Rian Johnson is clearly a very talented director who's building himself a very strong career, but I think it's kinda obvious Daisy Ridley in particular wasn't crazy about the direction TLJ took, although she's too much of a pro to say something too on the nose. Her first reaction to reading the script was disbelief and other little comments like this.
Rian delivered a good movie on its own merits, but I don't think he's the type of guy you bring in to pinch hit. If they wanted to use him, they either needed to let him do the entire trilogy from the get go, he's too ambitious of a filmmaker to just plop into the middle of a trilogy.
Rian delivered a good movie on its own merits, but I don't think he's the type of guy you bring in to pinch hit. If they wanted to use him, they either needed to let him do the entire trilogy from the get go, he's too ambitious of a filmmaker to just plop into the middle of a trilogy.
I'm so sorry, but how is being given a "mystery box" that you could literally say is anything your imagination could possibly dream of, and the best answer you can think of is "it's nothing" not lazy writing? TFA was like a creative writing prompt, and Rian thought his essay was way more clever than it actually was.
And who was JJ supposed to have be the final villain for the climax of this trilogy? Ben is a clown (which TLJ only exacerbated), who Rey can and already has beaten. Hux is an even bigger clown. We won't even talk about how fucking misused Phasma was (why not have her track down Finn to the casino planet and have her more involved in his story). So who? Who has any relation to this 9 film story and to these characters? Who makes sense thematically? Who will the audience buy as a credible final enemy? It should have been Snoke, but Rian was fucking lazy and didn't feel like explaining anything about him so he just unceremoniously killed him. Wow, so clever.
No I think it goes for all the characters --- my point is the story choices around Snoke etc are all around Kylo / Rey.
But all of the characters act honestly based on everything we know about them from the previous films, from Luke to Poe to Finn. And the little sidequest to Canto Bight is far more important for what it caused (help in inspiring the Resistance, being the spark that lit flames on a planet) than what their original goal was.
I also think much of Canto Bight is far more in line with George Lucas's Star Wars than some fans want to admit.
JJ Abrams didn't even know who Plagueis was, lol, he doesn't give a shit about any of the prequel lore, he was never going that route. Snoke probably would've stayed as the big bad, but it wouldn't have been related to any of that stuff.
Because no one liked The Force Awakens either clearly.
The vocal internet Star Wars fan base is the problem. What changed JJ? Went from a movie you wished you directed and now you're shitting on it in public. Mmmhmm.
Kylo was injured by a bowcaster shot (blows other people off their feat) and off-balance (just had killed his own father) when Rey beat him, hardly a representative fight.
Phasma was a disaster from the beginning - the most decorated soldier of the First Order betrays them by dropping the shields? That one JJ decision is so bad that the story group had to write novels and comics to clean it all up. Your idea just unneccesarily complicates the whole thing - how would Phasma even know Finn is going to Canto Bight?
Snoke was dumb, ooo another Emperor. Rian did us all a favor by disposing of him
I don't disagree that the characters acted in a way that made sense based on their history in previous SW movies - but I do think they could've come up with a better storyline for the Resistance/First Order side of things, considering it's the middle part of the trilogy. I still feel like despite everything that happens, the end of TLJ gives the impression that the story (and even some character development) didn't really progress past where it was at the end of TFA. I don't think it helps that everything between the two movies happened in the span of a few days, so even if there was major character development in places - it felt unearned and not really real, if that makes sense.
This is what happens when you have 2 different pilots, none of them thought about the destination when the plane took off, both pilots kept steering the plane to different directions when it it was their turn to man the plane, and now they are improvising where to land it as the plane runs out of fuel.
While I love ESB, the movie was mostly pointless. Nothing got resolved, and their mission (much like Finn and Rose's mission) a failure.
Sure we got the revelation of "I am your father" but TLJ had a reveal of Rey's heritage, Snoke getting ended and the fate of Luke
Every thing Star Wars you hear seems to try to not outright insult Rian, but still hint to fans that hey we're going to make a good movie this time.
They don't want to admit they fucked up giving Rian complete control with episode 8. But yet constantly seem to hint that episode 9 will not be like 8.
They don't want to admit they fucked up giving Rian complete control with episode 8. But yet constantly seem to hint that episode 9 will not be like 8.
Personally, I'm gonna go out with a hot take that I think bringing Palpatine back is kind of bold actually and not necessarily indicative of lazy writing. Not necessarily that it is original, but in that it would be a pretty big challenge to make that feel right and not feel like a disservice to the films that came before it. It would take the opposite of lazy writing, it's a challenging premise to tackle!
Or maybe not. The dude spent a whole movie scheming three steps ahead of everybody and talking about cheating death and never delivering on that concept. I also firmly believe to answer the question of "how" in the film, all you need to do is have that sucker do his evil cackle and most people would be like "well shit, sheev did it".
What is it about Gunslingers and terrible Star Wars takes on this site?
It pisses me off so hard how Johnson gets thrown under the bus nowadays for actually having the balls to do something different with Star Wars.
Yes, TLJ has flaws, but I'll be damned if this wasn't one of the most interesting Star Wars movies since The Empire Strikes Back.
Yes, TLJ has flaws, but I'll be damned if this wasn't one of the most interesting Star Wars movies since The Empire Strikes Back.
I don't get it, why are people reading negativity behind this? What he says is clear and maybe Daisy Ridely just likes JJ?
Rian makes the best Star Wars movie since Empire, goes on to make one of the best movies of 2019, and somehow he's the problem lmao. JJ is a hack
They didn't have a mission - Han and Leia were running from Vader as he was trying to capture them for the purpose of luring Luke to wherever he ended up finding them. The Rebels bounce out at the beginning of the movie and we don't even hear about them for the rest of the movie - and that's fine - Empire wanted to tell a story more personal to the characters and it worked. They weren't on some mission to save the Rebels, they were just trying to run away and were on their own path for a bit.
And of course nothing got resolved, it's Act II - it's meant to setup questions and cliffhangers for the final act, and it did. Luke finds out about Vader, finds out Obi-Wan was lying, hasn't finished his Jedi training (which is clear based on how Vader dusts him), Han is carbon frozen, Boba takes him to Jabba who we've only heard about up to this point, etc. etc.
This is something TLJ really dropped the ball on. What questions did it set up? What revelations did it reveal that have kept us speculating up to the release of 9? I liked the reveal of Rey's parentage, but it didn't exactly setup anything interesting - it was the opposite, it put the guessing to bed. That would've been fine had there been other things brought in that made us WANT to see a resolution. Other than the fact that the FO and Resistance are still fighting, there's nothing really left 'hanging' - and certainly nothing interesting that we're all dying to know more about.
Don't even try to tell me Empire was "as bad" in any regard lol.
I can't for the life of me understand how people defend TFA. Its a straight up memberberries film that painted the followup into some terribly cliched corners.
This straight up smells like Rise is weak and they're looking for scapegoats already.
This straight up smells like Rise is weak and they're looking for scapegoats already.
People hoping JJ makes their headcanon come true instead of appreciating a far more interesting film like TLJ... I guess par for the course
Look I like TLJ but people are allowed to have opinions ass long as their not being an ass about it.
Marvel has 10 movies planned out like Lucasfilm had 3 movies planned out for Star Wars. It's basically 'we will make Black Panther and then Ant-Man 2 and Captain Marvel etc. The stories of those 10 movies were defintely not plottted out way in advance. At most they will have had a vague idea of where it all was going. Apart from that, Marvel is basically a series of loosely tied stand alone films, where apart from the Avenger films one movie only has a slight influence on the next one.
People tend to forget the whole 'is Thanos in this meme', because the MCU was so well thought out in advance they had Thanos pop-up in the stinger of the first Avengers (iirc EDIT: was in Ultron apparently) saying: fine, I'll do it myself, only to just disapaer for the next 15 (EDIT: 7 then?) films (aside of a small part in a movie that was way removed from everything else at the time)
The reality of filmmaking is: unless you film back to back, you don't plot out your series long beforehand. Why? Because stuff gets changed and rewritten all the time. Sometimes shit works in a treatment, but once you put it in screenplay format it falls flat, or you come up with better ideas/discover new ways. Movies are often still being written when the camera's already roll, and after the shoot in editing stuff gets turned around again too. By the time you are at movie 3 you can probably throw away half of the plot beats you've written out 5 years ago. And sometimes stuff happens outside of your power. I mean, between 2013 when they started on this trilogy and now Carrie Fisher died. That would have put a big wrench in a 'thoughtfully plotted out trilogy' for sure.
The way they are going at it is the most realistic of all, and the way movies generally are made. You write a sequel based on what the first movie set up, and try to find the most interesting and logical follow-up. TLJ does exactly that, picking the characters up where they left of and figuring out the most interesting arcs they can complete. Meanwhile also answering the big question TFA explicitely set up (you might not like the answer, but it's still an answer) and putting everything in place for the finale (meaning: bringing your characters at a low point with a great obstacle before them, but with the gained wisdom to overcome it. The exact point an act 2 in general ends)
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Yup. JJ is all about style over substance.
We don't even know who the first order are. They make 0 sense.
He can be a failed exile without trying to stab a kid in his sleep lol
it's not the destination that's a problem for many. It's how we got there.
Plus Finn got hosed. Bah
Sorry to be that guy but that was Age of Ultron's stinger. Avengers was just him smiling evilly. Rest of your point stands though. especially since I think the "I'll do it myself" scene isn't even canon.
I mean what choice did Rian have here.
We were literally left on a Cliffhanger with Rey handing the lightsaber to Luke.
Once he thought about how that HAD to play out based on both of the characters and what we knew about them, he had to show it.
The choices made in TFA directly impact TLJ, and most of what people complain about is the honest reaction and writing to how TFA resets the universe.
In fact, if Rian did anything, he was trying to untangle that, and leave a clean slate for whoever did episode IX.
There Neo Nazi's IN SPACE. Not hard to grasp.
I think that's why he was wrong for the movie though, because his goal shouldn't have been to untangle and make a clean slate, it should've been to build on what TFA did and setup the conclusion. Instead of creating questions and cliffhangers himself, he put everything to bed and by the end of the movie, it felt like the end of the trilogy basically.
I also don't agree that he needed to show what happened in that confrontation, but we can agree to disagree.
Been a while since I've seen both films so my memory was fuzzy.
Nothing? We still got the Knights of Ren somewhere, there's still the question if Kylo can be redeemed and the resistance lost most of their forces and we don't know how that will pan out.
On ESB: the mission was to flee hoth and rendezvous, except they ended up in an imperial trap. They lost Han (they saved him in Jedi, true that was a set up for the next movie).
Luke not finishing his training wasn't much of a set up imo.
Cause you could equal this to Rey not getting trained by Luke and stealing the books (not save, the tree got set on fire afterwards).
...and went looking for the Jedi temple.
You laugh at others for only focusing on one line while you do the same.
The whole movie is about finding the "map to Luke Skywalker." Just because you can't imagine any other possible story than the one TLJ told doesn't mean there's not a million possibilities it could have ran with.
For 2 years ive been seeing TLJ topics on this site and just peeking in them. I haven't wached TLJ yet as im not that into Star Wars but I did watch TFA and though it was alright.
I am so tempted to watch TLJ out of curiosity at this point just so I can see what the fuss is all about.
I am so tempted to watch TLJ out of curiosity at this point just so I can see what the fuss is all about.
