Yup, I just think it's interesting how Luke puts all of that on himself like that when in reality it was a lot of things that weren't in his control.
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JJ Abrams on The Last Jedi
- Thread starter Bor Gullet
- Start date
This almost feels like gaslighting considering you commented within 10 posts of the OP making a pretty wild claim that is easily falsifiable based on a quote with no context to what you attached it to
You forgot the faction of people who come into every one of these threads going "See?! This affirms my opinion that TLJ is a garbage fire. Now how do we get KK and RJ to acknowledge this objective fact?!"
"nuance"
I predict a war coming upon between TLJ defenders after this movie comes out. Whose side will you pick? TLJ defense or ST defense only time will tell....
Because they retconned that ending out with the quickness, because as I said logically there's nowhere else to go but with the FO taking back total control and remaking the Empire. So Abrams retconned that just like, apparently, he's going to retcon Rey's lineage being one of nobodies .
Again: I don't say he started it. I said he completed it. He could've had the remnants of the New Republic rise up and start building their own proper army, he could've said that most of the FO's army got destroyed with Starkiller so the NR and FO would've been on equal footing, he could've said that Kylo killed the majority but not all of Luke's students, with the rest going into hiding and Luke & Rey could've gone off to rally them, he could've had Finn not be totally fucking useless, made Poe an idiot, used the Knights of Ren, etc. Instead the Resistance was reduced to one ship, the NR is actually dead (so who the hell is ruling the galaxy now?), the FO apparently has limitless resources despite having LESS territory than the Empire (nominally because the film just treats them as being the Empire), Snoke is killed off and the final boss is a guy Rey has kicked the ass of twice. Imagine if Vader and the Emperor died in a shuttle crash so Boba Fett ends up being the final boss of Return of the Jedi. That's how laughable the idea of Kylo being the final boss is, dude is far too much a loser to be a threat, yet the FO apparently just keeps winning because the good guys are even more incompetent.
Like I keep saying Abrams is the one who got the ball rolling so it's his fault too, but Rian made it his mission to complete the circle and totally reset everything to the ANH status quo. With the way things ended in TLJ, IX should be about Rey and friends collecting Force Kids to hopefully train and defeat the FO sometime in the future. But instead they just retconned everything they could and we're getting something that really just shows how incredibly inept the Disney SW era has been.
I'd love a complete trilogy with either JJ or RJ in the George Lucas role.
Maybe IX will bring it all together, but I do not like how incongruent the ST has been so far.
Maybe IX will bring it all together, but I do not like how incongruent the ST has been so far.
Can't wait to see what Rian is going to do with his new Star Wars trilogy
I'm sure it'll be good. Johnson isn't a bad director, he just didn't understand what his job was. He was only really meant to connect The Force Awakens and Rise of Skywalker by getting the characters from where they were to where they needed to be. We've seen a lot of his interviews since The Last Jedi came out and he's always talking about his own perspective, y'know? What he wanted, what he did. He treats The Last Jedi like a standalone movie he has free reign over when really he had a job to do that... he didn't.
I have a lot of faith in him being able to tell his own story from start to finish, although I don't know if a whole trilogy is necessarily a good idea.
What?
Are you positing that people who like TLJ don't really like Star Wars?
No he is positing that people who like the second film in the sequel trilogy don't like the sequel trilogy. Wait what.
Yeah, the messaging in TLJ definitely wasn't "it was all Luke's fault", but that he did fail and he was partially responsible for what happened to Ben.
What radioactive waste did you fall into that made you this way?
Tbf, Ratner would have probably given Umbrella Carp the movie he wanted.
But the expectation was that the story would continue, not chop off or disconnect under the guise of "expectation subversion".
Lol just when you thought the discourse on TLJ couldn't get any worse. People on Twitter upset about the actors being happy JJ was coming back for the final one 😂
Am I allowed to like both movies released in this trilogy so far? I like everything set up in TFA and I love TLJ for blowing up everything.
OP
OP
It is only natural.
Rian cut off JJ's story, and he wanted revenge.
I'm assuming you were in the washroom when Luke met Yoda in ESB.
True. It basically would have been Return of the Jedi again. Serviceable, but not particularly great. I just would loath knowing that I'd have to make this film with someone who couldn't care less about it.
Production wasn't a disaster. However we do know one of the most important actors involved in the franchise was very unhappy with it. I wouldn't expect any of these young actors to say anything until they were done.
All true honestly. They're fun but could have been so much cooler in many ways. Episode 8 was a bit better than 7 though for at least showing something new.
dude who read way too much into an article quote and refuses to back down from it suddenly upset he mightve been misinterpreted
I didn't read it that way at all. I think they are saying if IX retcons VIII they are predicting that the TLJ fanbase will have a civil war.
Seriously you don't give up lol. You're really dedicated lol. Aren't you Lunar wolf also?
Someone said Last Jedi wasn't about myth but instead metanarrative.
The Last Jedi's central message is about the importance of myth. The end of TLJ ends on hope because even though the resistance is in shatters, the stories of their stand, and Skywalkers final battle and sacrifice, inspires others to join the fight. Evidenced by the final shot of the kid.
That's damn inspirational and made me nearly tear up in the end. Way more fascinating, and ultimately hopeful, then having hope hinge on super talented and gifted people:
The Last Jedi's central message is about the importance of myth. The end of TLJ ends on hope because even though the resistance is in shatters, the stories of their stand, and Skywalkers final battle and sacrifice, inspires others to join the fight. Evidenced by the final shot of the kid.
That's damn inspirational and made me nearly tear up in the end. Way more fascinating, and ultimately hopeful, then having hope hinge on super talented and gifted people:
Pass!
Too bad it's leaking! Imagine being so into yourself that you go around outside the spoiler thread and start shit talking hints just to fuck with people who like a movie you don't.
Not posslby, they definilty were. I like the film but it's clear Hamill and Boyega really did not like the direction for their characters.
It's bizarre, just the other day I was reading a different SW thread (I realize there are a lot of them) that read like the polar opposite of this one, and just zero middle ground.
This is my main criticism of the film. Rian took all the plot threads introduced in TFA and threw all that shit out the window because that's not what he wanted to write about. Then proceeded to setup literally nothing for the next director to build off of. That's how we get shit like undead Palpatine. Cause what else is JJ supposed to do?
Either you've read spoilers, and you should really shut the fuck up about it, because that's not cute at all.
Or you haven't read them but want to look like you did and know more.
Either way, terrible post.
It's JJ's fault for setting up a mystery box with no plan or direction in mind. Don't blame RJ for taking what he was given and writting an interesting story around those dangling threads.
TROS did NOT have to be what JJ is doing. The story could have been taken in a million different directions. Bringing back Palpatine is lazy writting that shows how unoriginal JJ is IMO.
Well said. I expected heavy loss throughout the movie, that's what's supposed to happen in part 2, but I was constantly shocked at far they took it. From a fleet to just the falcon. So when Rey(?) asks leia "what next. We've lost everything." And leia responds "we have everything we need right here." That gets me.
Regardless of someone's take on TLJ, I'm not sure how someone could think there's nowhere left to go with this story after it ended.
Rian's script is the most honest SW script since the original trilogy. Everything makes absolute sense for each character based on the 7 movies we have prior. It honestly looks at the set-up and drives down to the most interesting characters, Rey and Kylo.
Making the entire OT meaningless was the worst possible idea yet they did it with TFA. I don't understand how TLJ gets all the hate when TFA exists.
Boyega seems like a cool dude but that swipe at Johnson is like "wtf?".
I get he didn't like Finn's arc, but JJ set up Finn as the new Luke in the promotion while making him a comical relief character in the end ("I'm a big deal", space janitor etc).
Johnson should have fixed that, and he didn't, but I don't see how TLJ steered so far away from TFA.
TFA told us Luke went in exile after Kylo went dark side and destroyed his life's work.
Him being against training more people made sense.
I get he didn't like Finn's arc, but JJ set up Finn as the new Luke in the promotion while making him a comical relief character in the end ("I'm a big deal", space janitor etc).
Johnson should have fixed that, and he didn't, but I don't see how TLJ steered so far away from TFA.
TFA told us Luke went in exile after Kylo went dark side and destroyed his life's work.
Him being against training more people made sense.
I mean, at the same time - JJ knew that Episode 9 was the movie that needed to wrap up the ENTIRE Skywalker saga, not just the ST. It could've been that his plan was for Snoke to be the wrap-up villain somehow (I still wonder if Snoke being Plagueis was the original idea and they scrapped it) and wasn't able to do that anymore.