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JJ Abrams on Rey and her parentage (Rise of Skywalker Spoilers)
- Thread starter Bor Gullet
- Start date
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Palpatine isn't supposed to be a tragic character like Vader.
He's the personification of the dark side. He's fucking evil and he loves it, that's the appeal of the character.
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Well... yes.
Palpatine is the devil constantly offering you to eat the forbidden fruit. It's not a hard concept to grasp.
i actually agree here, Palp was probably one of the best things in the prequels. That said he was also very allegorical on how quickly democracies can fall into authoritarianism as opposed to someone with his own unique motivations and arcs outside of mustache twirling. Think about the discussion we are having about the world's strongmen today, are they uniquely genius evil or just 'Hey, let me give you a safe space fo indulge in these bigoted greedy thoughts'.
Yes, and "being evil and loving it" is only enough because Vader is given depth. When that kind of character is the main antagonist to your heroes, the story suffers, as we saw in this latest movie.
To be absolutely fair, They Fly Now works because of how insulted Finn looks. Finn is probably thinking "What!?! When did they get jetpacks!?! Where was my jetpack! I was a part of this for most of my life and you're telling me if I waited a few more months I could have had my own jetpack!?! WTF!?!"
"The dead speak!" is the only one that stands out for me for a variety of reasons.
Reaction to TLJ might be mixed but one can't deny it was a fountain of memes.
Ben Swolo, "Salt!", "The sacred texts!", "MOOORE!", "Let the past die", etc.
Maybe that's the issue though? Is Satan the bad guy in the Adam and Eve story or is it man's hubris. God literally punishes the humans making hubris the 'conflict' which is my point in that calling Sheev the big bad an oversimplification.
Imagining Adam Driver deliver a line in this way is more amusing than it should be.
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That makes no sense. Kylo Ren in this movie is to what Darth Vader is in ROTJ.
Palpatine is also recognized to be a highlight in the prequels and ROTJ.
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And his redemption is rushed and poor because instead of doing anything related to his character, he just gets said because his mom reaches out to him...again...despite it not working before. And again, nothing he does actually addresses his character.
the plural of jedi is jedus
just like how the plural of dildo is dildus
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I think Rey healing him (when she could have killed him) also contributed to his turn
In that story, he clearly isn't. The story isn't told with Eve and Adam being sympathetic (hell, thanks to misogyny you will find many that find fault with EVE over Satan because Satan's just doing his job).
Its why I said its an oversimplification. Satan's the big bad in a possession stories because generally its an innocent literally getting taken over and defiled through no fault of their own. You aren't going to find many theology or even philosophy stories that have satan as the antagonist in the garden of eden...its man's curiosity/hubris/defiance of god
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And Kylo Ren heading the First Order not out of a desire to rule, but fueled only by rage and desperation that he felt abandoned by everyone that was supposed to care for him, and then Rey, in a final rejection, was far more interesting than him being a half-assed Vader retread (he even rebuilds his helmet, jesus fucking christ, JJ) while serving the very same master (he intends to kill him, but then again, so did Vader). It's dumb, lazy and makes his redemption arc a lot more abrupt than it needed to be. Vader had a relationship to the Emperor from the start and the story was built from the ground up with that in mind, here you are inserting that dynamic in the final act, it doesn't work the same way.
The crew spends every single scene worrying about Palpatine and trying to find their way to him as well. Kylo seems almost like a parallel character working out his own issues separate from the main plot at times. He basically only interacts with Rey, and the Resistance doesn't really give a shit about him unless he's in their immediate physical vicinity.
Just a complete and utter misread of what Rian was going for and why it was uniquely devastating. JJ's a fucking hack for literally just aping off of Lucas when Rian already wrote a more compelling and interesting turn for Rey. Absolute fucking simpleton. It's staring him in the face, and he can't wrap his head around it. He literally doesn't get why the "no one" twist was so powerful and felt the need to make it more "extreme", but then ended up erasing so much of what made Rey a compelling character. King Moron shit right there.
The question is more "would they have done what they did, to the degree that they did, without being pushed?" That's why Palpatine as merely a conduit for the bad side of human nature works in the OT, but in the PT you would not have gotten full blown Empire and Anakin killing younglings without Palpatine driving the wedge through the political scene and between Anakin and the rest of the Jedi. Anakin may well have fallen when left to his own devices, but not so far or so fast. The more logical jump from his massacre of the Tusken Raiders would have been My Lai styled war crimes instead of jumping right to murdering children of monks unprovoked.
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Sure, but generally speaking, when someone's the puppet master pulling the strings, they're considered to be the main threat, even if the characters don't know that.
This is deep and accurate.
Imagine a star wars prequel trilogy remade with this in mind. Amazing.
Noooo. Now /this/ is deep.
Yeah this was dumb.
The infatuation with bloodline should have never really been a thing. Instead of giving these character's stories a platform to grow it just restricts the possibilities.
The infatuation with bloodline should have never really been a thing. Instead of giving these character's stories a platform to grow it just restricts the possibilities.
JJ Abrams is the kind of guy who, when on a date, will say and agree with anything the woman wants to hear as long as he can get laid
Well in the old canon (legends) the balance would have been permanent had Anakin embraced his destiny as the Father's successor. but he didn't and it led to disaster for over 60 years. When he killed the emperor it was temporary. Palpatine came back from the void with a Sith Spell and cloned himself and did more damage in a 2 year war than he did in the great 20 year war and that led to the balance ending, along with the Vong entering the galaxy 10 years after that. Anakin's great grandaughter Allana would become the Jedi Queen of Hapes and ensure a long, long balance and peace with her lifetime. But Luke stated that the Jedi and Sith needed to maintain the balance themselves since the Daughter, Son and Anakin were all dead..
It's the exact same twist. I can't believe no one said anything to put a stop to this. There's no way everyone was down with this. Coming off TLJ, it makes zero sense.
"The dead speak!" was such a strange way to start off the movie. Like it expected you to know Palpatine was back based on promo material. If you didn't know, they picked the most flaccid way possible to reintroduce the audience to this character we thought to be dead for 30 years. It's just so weird.
That he managed to loop Kylo Ren back around from the brand new, fresh path in TLJ as a kind of villain Star Wars has never had before, to "Actually he's just Vader in ROTJ again" says it all.
That's what caught me and my buddies off guard.
You brought back this iconic bad guy and don't even really give him a proper cool intro. They just...say it in the opening scrawl.
Like, I get that it's in the trailers and promo material, but it would've been nice for your big villain to have a dramatic lead up to his reintroduction. Instead it's so goddamn limp.
You brought back this iconic bad guy and don't even really give him a proper cool intro. They just...say it in the opening scrawl.
Like, I get that it's in the trailers and promo material, but it would've been nice for your big villain to have a dramatic lead up to his reintroduction. Instead it's so goddamn limp.
Yeah but every scene he was in was amazing so they did do him justice in that he was a bad ass
They just left some to the imagination which I'm come into to terms with slowly.
They just left some to the imagination which I'm come into to terms with slowly.
Kylo Ren literally pulled a "What I said was true, from a certain point of view".
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This creased dress-shirt of a man was out here clapping big booty cheeks while you can't even get a text back.
If he can do it, so can you!
Pretty much ruined the whole concept of Anakin being a savior (and everything that happened in the first six episodes by the good guys).