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Nov 8, 2017
13,109
It's not like this is even new, tabloids have been operating on the basis of daily scandal updates and overwhelming negativity for generations and yellow journalism is long attested to. Democratizing content creation and distribution just lowers the barrier for entry substantially.
 

saenima

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,892
he is specially saying it's YouTube's algorithm that's is to blame for why negative content is made , however he sits outside of that mechanism for delivery as he is producing content for his patreon people, not for youtube's algorithm.
I would understand the sentiment if it was "I live on ad revenue, so I need the clicks", but instead he opts for an ad free environment funded by patreon.

If the argument is that his Audience thrives on his toxic negativity, then isn't that almost even worse that he condones that by producing the content to satiate them rather than producing them purely to manipulate an algorithm?

Only the Jimquisition videos are ad free. His other content is monetized.
 

LumberPanda

Member
Feb 3, 2019
6,340
YouTube is no different than the 24 hour news cycle here. The news will pretend climate change or vaccines are "completely up for debate with no clear answer in sight", because people want to watch drama. A random person off the street who claims vaccines cause autism deserves just as much representation and screen time as a scientist in that field, because that gets views.
 

Toxi

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
17,547
I remember this anti-TLJ video with Holdo in the thumbnail that would be reccommended to me for months on end despite not even watching Star Wars videos
I swear to God that fucking video would never leave. No matter how many times I said not interested, not even after clicking on it just to downvote it.

And then the creator changed the thumbnail just so it would get pushed by the algorithm again. Why the fuck is changing thumbnails suddenly resurrecting videos in the recommendations. It's annoying even for the channels I legitimately like.
 

Alastor3

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
8,297
FOR ONCE I AGREE WITH HIM !!

Even on ERA, negative threads will always be more popular than positive ones, and it's a SHAME
 

IamFlying

Alt Account
Banned
Apr 6, 2019
765
I don't say it's better but yes, I think it's more objective than an human with emotions. It takes raw data, make statistics and do math models. It doesn't say it's a conspiracy because it doesn't serve the wished narrative. Though, that's my point of view, as an human (as far as I know).

Algorithm are made by humans, and as I pointed out by Google example in my post are in no way more objective or error free. Every human could make better suggestions based on my view history on YouTube than any algorithm.
 

stumblebee

The Fallen
Jan 22, 2018
2,504
It's way, way, way, easier to be funny and make content about negative aspects of something you're discussing.
 

bionic77

Member
Oct 25, 2017
30,894
FOR ONCE I AGREE WITH HIM !!

Even on ERA, negative threads will always be more popular than positive ones, and it's a SHAME
It is really easy to be negative.

But you can choose to avoid the shitty negative threads and focus on the awesome threads that actually have something worthwhile to say.
 

Kreed

The Negro Historian
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,109
Jim Sterling threads on Era are a great example of this. Most of the threads made for Jim's videos are his videos with "negative/controversial" titles and the majority of the posters in those threads are commenting on the thread/video title along with posters complaining about Jim Sterling being too negative. But when Jim does a mostly positive Jimpression on Zelda or Code Vein, if it even does get a thread, it may get a page of discussion at best.
 

RPGam3r

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,500
Its not the algorithm, its the people. Large amounts of people like to wallow in negativity (as some others have pointed out you only have to look around here). The algorithms are just feeding people what they want.
 

PaulloDEC

Visited by Knack
Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,414
Australia
Some people here are acting like Jim's content is in the same vein as the garbage whiny anti-SJW horseshit idiots like TheQuartering peddle, when in reality there are very few channels out there that truly home in on corporate greed and shady business models on a systemic level the way Jim does. As far as I know, not only was he a pioneer on that front, he's still - much to my dismay - very unique. There's no channel like his out there. And I like the fact that he's becoming more and more open about his leftist angle; I'm sure that if you were to chart the number of times he says "capitalism" in a video throughout the years, the curve would be trending higher and higher. Good on him. It's something that, again, makes him very unique among gaming-focused YouTubers; far too few YouTubers engage in systemic criticism of the industry.

And I can't help but agree with him: why wouldn't he talk about the same topics over and over when the industry keeps pulling the same shit over and over? It's not like he's regurgitating controversies from 10 years ago. The industry keeps outdoing itself, and so shall Jim. The corporate fuckers want to fuck us, and people like Jim won't let them off the hook. Good.

Well said. Jim might produce a lot of "negative" videos, but they're negative for a reason. It isn't just shit-stirring for the sake of shit-stirring; he addresses topics that many in the gaming community consider to be important.
 

TheRulingRing

Banned
Apr 6, 2018
5,713
He's said he has and they nearly always get way less, it's why he adds postive pushes for good indie games he's played in the Jimquisistion itself to give them limelight people will see. Also you know he also just didn't like Breakpoint... Like a lot of people did.

Maybe the problem isn't that the videos are positive but that no one cares about said indie games.
 

Antrax

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,283
It's it really "the algorithm", or just simply what people want to see? Seems silly to me putting this on YouTube.
algorithms are mathematical explainations of naturally occurring phenomenon, like the algorithm to describe how a school of fish move.
To add, algorithms are frequently self-defeating. If you wrote an algorithm to decide popular movies, you'll eventually end up with a disaster because your algorithm will almost certainly keep you films in a narrower and narrower genre until it's so specific and outdated that you release a giant flop. Meanwhile, some new movie in a different genre, maybe with newer stars, breaks out and that becomes the new, hot thing.
 

Mercador

Member
Nov 18, 2017
2,840
Quebec City
Algorithm are made by humans, and as I pointed out by Google example in my post are in no way more objective or error free. Every human could make better suggestions based on my view history on YouTube than any algorithm.
Actually, algorithms are made more and more by IA themselves to which point it will be difficult to know why an algorithm is made that way. But that's another topic. Yes, human curators are still better but it's not really cost effective, obviously. It will get better but probably never as good as another human.
 

SimpleCRIPPLE

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,224
The niche thing is so real. I have seen Drif0r trying to break out from Call of Duty a few times already. Never successful.
Yeah, Drift0r's talked about it quite a bit. His online identity and earning potential is irrevocably tied to CoD at this point. If he's serious about quitting CoD later this year if the microtransactions are shit, he's basically looking at a career change.
 

SchrodingerC

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,859
Hes the definition of toxic. so thats pretty ironic.

Yeah, no.

There are actual rage merchants that spew their horrible views on a constant basis. One such douchebag is thequartering(human trash); he's such a toxic piece of shit.
Jim might get some things wrong, but he has good intentions and cares about this hobby.
 

shark97

Banned
Nov 7, 2017
5,327
Yeah, no.

There are actual rage merchants that spew their horrible views on a constant basis. One such douchebag is thequartering(human trash); he's such a toxic piece of shit.
Jim might get some things wrong, but he has good intentions and cares about this hobby.


Making yourself rich bitching about mtx and capitalism with constant negativity isnt my opinion of a good livelehood. But i know its a formula that works and quite a few like jim are filthy rich off it. Good for him, im sure he enjoys his piles of money with which he buys things.

Put it this way, when i see a jim sterling thread i dont just ignore the thread, i ignore the poster of the thread immediately (ya i know, here i am, some slip through the cracks)
 

Professor Beef

Official ResetEra™ Chao Puncher
Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,499
The Digital World
Making yourself rich bitching about mtx and capitalism with constant negativity isnt my opinion of a good livelehood. But i know its a formula that works and quite a few like jim are filthy rich off it. Good for him, im sure he enjoys his piles of money with which he buys things.

Put it this way, when i see a jim sterling thread i dont just ignore the thread, i ignore the poster of the thread immediately (ya i know, here i am, some slip through the cracks)
that doesn't really explain your "he's the definition of toxic" mentality
 

PaulloDEC

Visited by Knack
Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,414
Australia
Making yourself rich bitching about mtx and capitalism with constant negativity isnt my opinion of a good livelehood. But i know its a formula that works and quite a few like jim are filthy rich off it. Good for him, im sure he enjoys his piles of money with which he buys things.

So is it the activist slant to his work you're against, or are you just upset that he's able to make a good living?
 

Loxley

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,618
"Negativity will always be popular."
Yeah just look at Era as a example negative threads have way more posts than anything else.


PPhOXfb.jpg
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,677
Whatever I could do to get cleanprincegaming out of my recommends would be great. Haven't watched a video from the dude in well over a year.
 

Kcoe27400

Member
Mar 14, 2018
932
"Negativity will always be popular."
Yeah just look at Era as a example negative threads have way more posts than anything else.
Exactly how many times has a negative breath of the wild thread been created. And yet every single time it does it gets like 10 pages of posts. How many this game is great threads get that much traffic. The rest of the internet is no different than youtube negativity thrives and generates more traffic.
 

SchrodingerC

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,859
Making yourself rich bitching about mtx and capitalism with constant negativity isnt my opinion of a good livelehood. But i know its a formula that works and quite a few like jim are filthy rich off it. Good for him, im sure he enjoys his piles of money with which he buys things.

Put it this way, when i see a jim sterling thread i dont just ignore the thread, i ignore the poster of the thread immediately (ya i know, here i am, some slip through the cracks)

Even taking those into consideration, it still doesn't make him the definition of toxic.
 

zoltek

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,917
The majority of the publically-consumed news media since the advent of the printing press thrives on negativity. This is nothing new, just a technologically advanced twist.
 

hydruxo

â–˛ Legend â–˛
Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,425
At least he's honest about it I guess. I don't like his videos though for that reason, dude is constantly negative about everything and it's just draining.
This guy is a personification of negativity, no wonder that is all what he sees.

Exactly. It's his brand.
 
OP
OP
lowhighkang_LHK
Oct 25, 2017
5,884
Las Vegas
Jim Sterling threads on Era are a great example of this. Most of the threads made for Jim's videos are his videos with "negative/controversial" titles and the majority of the posters in those threads are commenting on the thread/video title along with posters complaining about Jim Sterling being too negative. But when Jim does a mostly positive Jimpression on Zelda or Code Vein, if it even does get a thread, it may get a page of discussion at best.

I don't even remember the Code Vein thread being posted here.
 

Kyougar

Cute Animal Whisperer
Member
Nov 3, 2017
9,359
I feel like Jim's aware; you're the person who's seeing what they want to see. Nothing Jim's saying hasn't been backed up by other YTers and people who've actually done the research. People want the drama and the rage, thats what drives the clicks.

Yes, I am seeing what I am seeing. Meaning: I don't get recommended toxic shit, because I am not a consumer of toxic shit. But if you are in the bubble of negativity, you get recommended more and more toxic videos. All those "other YTers" also report or participate in toxic or negative things so they are in the same negative bubble.

All I am seeing are cute kitties, puppies, funny videos, Watchmojo, Let's plays, Music Videos, documentaries, Science Videos, Space Videos, etc.


My account says different.

I have seriously never gotten ANY of these alt-right, bigoted, videos pushed to me. Again though, I watch lots of live music (so I get lots of live music recommendations), I watch lots of Giant Bomb and some Polygon videos, so I get those recommended, and I watch lots of cooking so I get lots of Bon Appetit and Munchies and stuff. That's literally 90% of my recommendations. I just find it hard to believe that i'm the only one that this algorithm doesn't apply to...or maybe it's that a lot of people watch a lot of toxic, negative youtube channels/people, who you don't really realize how they fit into that toxicity.

*fistbump*
 

Bricktop

Attempted to circumvent ban with an alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,847
The fact that Jim Sterling is popular proved this a long time ago.
 

Com_Raven

Brand Manager
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
1,103
Europa
Well, that is certainly good news for Jim and his content! And if the algorithm doesn't work, you can always make up weird conspiracy theories about install sizes...
 

Tizoc

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,792
Oman
It's it really "the algorithm", or just simply what people want to see? Seems silly to me putting this on YouTube.
My experience with it thus far has been ok
Yt recommends longplays of old retro games to me along with compilation videos showcasing obscure retro games. I do get fg related video recs sometimes too.
Basically it comes down to the viewer or user.
I so get the rare video or two that i utterly have no interest in watching but it just males me.roll my.eyes, ignore it and the algorithm keeps giving me stuff based on my typical viewing.
 

Bricktop

Attempted to circumvent ban with an alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,847
My experience with it thus far has been ok
Yt recommends longplays of old retro games to me along with compilation videos showcasing obscure retro games. I do get fg related video recs sometimes too.
Basically it comes down to the viewer or user.
I so get the rare video or two that i utterly have no interest in watching but it just males me.roll my.eyes, ignore it and the algorithm keeps giving me stuff based on my typical viewing.

This is true. I can count on one hand the number of negative videos I get recommended, because I don't watch this shit. If you get caught up in all the drama you're going to get recommended videos that slant that way.
 

Pokémon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,681
"Viewers like familiarity"

Oh how right he is. I have noticed this a bunch of times on Twitch as well when somewhat successful speedrunners suddenly stopped to speedrun and tried doing other stuff instead. People dropped them like hot potatoes and they basically had to start all over again.
Usually people follow you because of your content and not because they like your face and if you take them away the familiar content then good luck trying to retain your viewership.
 
Feb 24, 2018
5,237
Well, that is certainly good news for Jim and his content! And if the algorithm doesn't work, you can always make up weird conspiracy theories about install sizes...
The one he already apologised for, not that many people saw in the long run and doesn't really diminish his point here? Kind of proving his point here as well on the subject of negativity.

Also I don't really get how a mistake on damn file sizes is now considered one of the worst things possible to say, like really? That is on par with some of the awful toxic BS that comes out of the gaming community.
 

SageShinigami

Member
Oct 27, 2017
30,471
Yes, I am seeing what I am seeing. Meaning: I don't get recommended toxic shit, because I am not a consumer of toxic shit. But if you are in the bubble of negativity, you get recommended more and more toxic videos. All those "other YTers" also report or participate in toxic or negative things so they are in the same negative bubble.

All I am seeing are cute kitties, puppies, funny videos, Watchmojo, Let's plays, Music Videos, documentaries, Science Videos, Space Videos, etc.

Ah yes. The age-old proof that is "anecdotal evidence".
 

barit

Avenger
Oct 28, 2017
1,163
Hes the definition of toxic. so thats pretty ironic.

Why you say this? He is one of the few critics who at least tries to explain why he gives this or that game a low score and what could´ve done better to improve the game.

Is he sometimes harsh or even cruel with his reviews? Sure. But he has always a point and gives the viewer/reader often examples and reasons why he didn´t like the game.
 

Com_Raven

Brand Manager
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
1,103
Europa
The one he already apologised for, not that many people saw in the long run and doesn't really diminish his point here? Kind of proving his point here as well on the subject of negativity.

Also I don't really get how a mistake on damn file sizes is now considered one of the worst things possible to say, like really? That is on par with some of the awful toxic BS that comes out of the gaming community.

Saying developers don't optimize file sizes cause you don't know how the process works is a mistake, fair enough. Claiming install sizes are intentionally bloated to prevent you from installing other games is flat out lying to cause controversy and rile angry gamers up. That would be a text book case of (artificially created) negativity, so it certainly fits the topic of the thread.
 

SageShinigami

Member
Oct 27, 2017
30,471

It's anecdotal evidence at a small sample size. At large sizes it's just empirical data. So...no. Not right back to me. This idea that YT (or social media in general) is all sunshine and roses and if it's not it's your fault isn't just unreasonable, it's been proven wrong by people again and again.
 

oni_gank

Banned
May 13, 2019
241
This is a self-reminder for regularly clean my Youtube's history and unwanted subscriptions. Thanks Jim.
 

Com_Raven

Brand Manager
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
1,103
Europa
It's anecdotal evidence at a small sample size. At large sizes it's just empirical data. So...no. Not right back to me. This idea that YT (or social media in general) is all sunshine and roses and if it's not it's your fault isn't just unreasonable, it's been proven wrong by people again and again.

Even when it comes to anecdotal evidence, to be honest. I almost exclusively use YouTube for music, with the occasional funny/ cute animal video. I still frequently get some gaming drama ("X killed game Y!!!!!") or right-wing ("women ruined Star Wars!!!") shoved in my face. So I would certainly agree that they heavily promote negativity, and drama. Stuff that generates clicks and comments is what their service relies on, after all.
 

SageShinigami

Member
Oct 27, 2017
30,471
Even when it comes to anecdotal evidence, to be honest. I almost exclusively use YouTube for music, with the occasional funny/ cute animal video. I still frequently get some gaming drama ("X killed game Y!!!!!") or right-wing ("women ruined Star Wars!!!") shoved in my face. So I would certainly agree that they heavily promote negativity, and drama. Stuff that generates clicks and comments is what their service relies on, after all.

Agreed. This comes back around to people seeing what they wanna see, basically.
 

Kaguya

Member
Jun 19, 2018
6,408
That's less so YouTube alogrithem and more what drive people, it wasn't any different few years ago with negative articles getting more hits(check n4g) or even 50 to 100 years ago with how newspaper chose what goes on the first page. We as humans are just more curious about drama and tragedy.
 

Kyougar

Cute Animal Whisperer
Member
Nov 3, 2017
9,359
It's anecdotal evidence at a small sample size. At large sizes it's just empirical data. So...no. Not right back to me. This idea that YT (or social media in general) is all sunshine and roses and if it's not it's your fault isn't just unreasonable, it's been proven wrong by people again and again.

I didn't say its sunshine and roses. I said that those who participate and consume in negativity are in a self-fulfilling bubble.

in simple terms the algorithm probably works like this:

Consumer watches Music videos funny cat videos etc.
Algorithm throws in some video recommendations every now and then that has nothing to do with that.
Consumer clicks those toxic videos.
Algorithm thinks it did a good job and recommends more and more toxic videos because the consumer clicks them.

I block those videos, I block those channels, So I get very few recommendations like that, and if I do, I block them!
 

spineduke

Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
8,748
I didn't say its sunshine and roses. I said that those who participate and consume in negativity are in a self-fulfilling bubble.

in simple terms the algorithm probably works like this:

Consumer watches Music videos funny cat videos etc.
Algorithm throws in some video recommendations every now and then that has nothing to do with that.
Consumer clicks those toxic videos.
Algorithm thinks it did a good job and recommends more and more toxic videos because the consumer clicks them.

I block those videos, I block those channels, So I get very few recommendations like that, and if I do, I block them!

How are you blocking channels? Afaik there isn't an official way to do it.