Jim Sterling: Ubisoft Redefines Gameplay Trailers As Trailers Without Gameplay In Them

[BassForever]

Honest question: should be a Jim Sterling thread with all his videos? Is there a rule that regulates if it's okay to make a new thread for every video of a single content creator? I'm not complaining, I just want to know how the rules operate in this case.

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In theory someone could make and maintain a Jim Sterling, Dunkey, or Angry Joe OT the way the AVGN, Giant Bomb, and EZA all have OT's, it just hasn't happened. Even if Jim got his own OT some of his Jimquisition episodes are too big for a standardized OT.

On topic of the video, as others have said it's not new, but it's especially annoying in this game when they spent a week hyping that this would be actual gameplay. Just because Jim has (rightly) bagged on Ubisoft before doesn't mean he can't bag on them again for doing something worth bagging on.

 

[SnazzyNaz]

Oh noo, Ubi didnt show us gameplay! We as GAMERS deserve gameplay! THANK GOD FOR JIM!

...

Making a mountain out of a molehill...

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That's not what this frustration is about but go off.

 

[DevilMayGuy]

I agree with him

 

[TheSpaceBetween]

Wow at people actually defending Ubisoft here, when they have a history of doing crap like this and are a big reason why other companies try to get away with similar crap in the first place.

 

[Deleted member 364]

Ubisoft guy tempers expectations and says it'll just be a taste/teaser

Jim Sterling: Doesn't matter, I have thousands of Patreon supporters who want an 11 minute video to be angry about.

 

[Deleted member 18944]

Ubi and Jim are both (deservedly) catching shit in here, but Microsoft somehow seems to have escaped blame.

It was Microsoft's event. They knew what the trailer looked like and chose to advertise it as gameplay, because they had a narrative they wanted to push.

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How the hell is Microsoft remotely responsible for how Ubisofts decided to market THEIR product?

What's the narrative here? Sounds like some conspiracy theory shit.

 

[jokkir]

Jim Sterling threads are always fun to watch

 

[JamRock7]

Are we really gonna act like Ubi was the only non-gameplay trailer at the thing?

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They should've announced the game with that trailer instead of giving us 2 cinematic trailers that follow the same beat.

 

[AndyD]

I thought the ship sailing bits were gameplay no?

 

[Deleted member 46948]

Wrong thread, sorry

 

[Absolute]

There is always so much thread whining in Jim threads. I'm surprised its allowed. Half the comments are just personal attacks against him completely off topic to the video at hand.

 

[Deleted member 18944]

Wow at people actually defending Ubisoft here, when they have a history of doing crap like this and are a big reason why other companies try to get away with similar crap in the first place.

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Every time someone says something akin to "so they don't get away with it" I think to myself:

Who is getting away with what? Gamers never shut the fuck up about anything that they don't like.​

​

We already had the backlash in the initial thread, we see it on their YouTube channel, we even see the takes from Kotaku. So why does Jim need to weigh in on it with a 10 minute video about it? There's nothing of substance to discuss. There's no "I've gotta make sure I call this out or it'll NEVER get covered."

 

[elyetis]

Extreme critique of any trailer for a game in development is difficult on developers as it's most likely their first time getting any public feedback on something they've most likely spent years working on. It's okay to be critical, positive or negative, as this allows developers/publishers/artists the ability to tweak before release...yet also be constructive, you wouldn't be this harshly critical if you had to give this feedback face to face.

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It's hard to be much more constructive than "don't call/hype a gameplay trailer, if it's not a gameplay trailer", hopefully people working on the game are not stupid enough to take that complaint as a personal insult to them or their work, except maybe if they work for PR.

 

[Cosmic Voyager]

How the hell is Microsoft remotely responsible for how Ubisofts decided to market THEIR product?

What's the narrative here? Sounds like some conspiracy theory shit.

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I said Ubisoft has been getting deserved shit here. Therefore, I chose to focus on the other part of the equation that's been missing, Microsoft. It's Microsoft's event. They chose what gets shown and how it's framed. At the very start of the conference they literally go out of their way to say "we've heard you, so today will be about gameplay." That was their narrative for the event. They wanted to tie their brand name to the first next-gen gameplay.

They knew the Ubi trailer wasn't gameplay (and yes, I know Ubisoft ALSO marketed it misleadingly), yet they decided to go ahead and label it as such in their event. You think Microsoft just gave Ubi an empty timeslot and said "fill it with whatever you want, can't wait to see it at the event as it airs live!" No, of course not. Microsoft was not blindsided by this.

This is pretty simple stuff really

 

[TaySan]

There is always so much thread whining in Jim threads. I'm surprised its allowed. Half the comments are just personal attacks against him completely off topic to the video at hand.

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I swear people are acting like Jim is forcing these people at gunpoint to watch his videos. Lol

 

[TheSpaceBetween]

Every time someone says something akin to "so they don't get away with it" I think to myself:

Who is getting away with what? Gamers never shut the fuck up about anything that they don't like.​

​

We already had the backlash in the initial thread, we see it on their YouTube channel, we even see the takes from Kotaku. So why does Jim need to weigh in on it with a 10 minute video about it? There's nothing of substance to discuss. There's no "I've gotta make sure I call this out or it'll NEVER get covered."

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The more people that call out the bullshit, the better.

 

[ZeoVGM]

Because it's cool to hate Ubisoft and it gets more clicks.

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That must be it. Can't possibly be because they lied about something.

 

[StallionDan]

Are we really gonna act like Ubi was the only non-gameplay trailer at the thing?

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Did the others advertise as gameplay trailers when they were not?

Not being gameplay isn't the problem, saying it will be gameplay when it isn't is the problem.

 

[K' Dash]

But it is very adult hyping people with patently false information just to release that joke trailer?

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My life doesn't revolve around videogames, but calling the games showed yesterday trash and comparing them to first party efforts that are half a decade or more in the making is pretty dumb.

It wasn't only AC, the whole thread was full of hate, it was more than obvious when people shat on Bloodlines 2 for 3 pages but when the name of the game was revealed everyone started prasing it.

I'm rambling now, I think I'm just going to go and enjoy my Friday.

 

[Baccus]

You'd think this was a clear cut issue not to be argued, then...

We truly live in the post truth times

 

[Deleted member 32808]

*crying hysterically*

LEAVE UBISOFT ALONE.
You are lucky they even made a trailer for you BASTARDS!

 

[Deleted member 18944]

I said Ubisoft has been getting deserved shit here. Therefore, I chose to focus on the other part of the equation that's been missing, Microsoft. It's Microsoft's event. They chose what gets shown and how it's framed. At the very start of the conference they literally go out of their way to say "we've heard you, so today will be about gameplay." That was their narrative for the event. They wanted to tie their brand name to the first next-gen gameplay.

They knew the Ubi trailer wasn't gameplay (and yes, I know Ubisoft ALSO marketed it misleadingly), yet they decided to go ahead and label it as such in their event. You think Microsoft just gave Ubi an empty timeslot and said "fill it with whatever you want, can't wait to see it at the event as it airs live!" No, of course not. Microsoft was not blindsided by this.

This is pretty simple stuff really

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No, I don't think Microsoft was blindsided by anything. In fact, I never once implied that they were. I know how marketing events work, I know who controls them. I know Microsoft discussed with Ubisoft showing off more of their Assassin's Creed game, but I also know that Ubisoft is fully responsible for messaging and communication of their game at these events.

This is like saying E3 is responsible for a bad conference at their show.

Ubisoft is responsible for the marketing of their game, full stop. If Ubisoft doesn't communicate correctly, that's on them.

This is pretty simple stuff really

 

[Rodrigues solitaire]

Every time someone says something akin to "so they don't get away with it" I think to myself:

Who is getting away with what? Gamers never shut the fuck up about anything that they don't like.​

​

We already had the backlash in the initial thread, we see it on their YouTube channel, we even see the takes from Kotaku. So why does Jim need to weigh in on it with a 10 minute video about it? There's nothing of substance to discuss. There's no "I've gotta make sure I call this out or it'll NEVER get covered."

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Not to mention it's two thirds of regurgitated crap that's been brought up ad nauseam. Yes, we get it, the reveals of Watch Dogs and Killzone 2 were a deception. As if this situation remotely compares.

 

[Deleted member 364]

In this video he keeps using the word "lie" like he's purposely trying to rile his fanbase up and get them to repeat after him. No Jim, setting a high target for yourself and not achieving it isn't lying. Neither is saying making a statement and then changing your stance later down the line.

I guess what I'm saying is, while I know you have a lot of idiots watching your channel, for the 10% of us that aren't, it'd be nice if you didn't use the word lie with the nuance of a 6 year old.

Great video otherwise! Ubisoft and Microsoft totally set expectations far too high with these "gameplay" promises.

 

[Dog of Bork]

Was pretty disappointed with the AC trailer because it showed no gameplay. I love AC games, so yeah, go off Jim. Ubi fucked it.

Lie is a pretty valid word for the Watch Dogs downgrade and this "gameplay" trailer.

 

[Deleted member 18944]

Not to mention it's two thirds of regurgitated crap that's been brought up ad nauseam. Yes, we get it, the reveals of Watch Dogs and Killzone 2 were a deception. As if this situation remotely compares.

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And my problem isn't the idea of calling this out, it's the idea that it takes 10 minutes to call it out, and recycle talking points like its going to do something.

Let's also not forget that all these deceptive lies about games that Jim points out are probably not intentional acts to mislead people, but the result of game development being so chaotic with how things change ALL the time.

 

[Sleepwalker]

This isn't really that big of an issue, unlike Jim's usual topics surrounding the shitty practices in the gaming industry which simply have to be talked about, no matter how many complaints there are about the sameyness of his content. Sure, sure his points can get repetitive but the ways big publishers constantly shit on customers and their own employees to get that $$$ is also pretty damn repetitive and far more damaging than a single guy doing vids.

This whole debacle is just... baffling? Like what reaction did Ubi even expect with this? If they didn't hype this up just to release yet another highly directed cinematic trailer, this thread wouldn't even exist. It just seems like something that could have been easily avoided lol.

 

[WBacon]

Not specific to Ubisoft, but perhaps a better, universally accepted terminology should be adopted by the industry to avoid these confusions in the future.

Non-interactive real-time cutscene...implies graphics rendered locally using game engine's renderer and in-engine assets.

Interactive gameplay footage...video footage that is actively controlled from a player's perspective and is indicative of what customers should expect when they actually "play" the game.

 

[Thatguy]

I think the problem is that a lot of next gen games are going to be cross gen, and just a little better on the graphics front. But the big problem is that they won't feel any different than the things we have seen in the current gen. The amount of work to create a detailed open world is just crazy. We're seeing next gen projects like Star Citizen take hundreds of millions of dollars to make and 10+ years. And at the end you have a big detailed universe but moment to moment it kinda feels like a PS4 game. SC has moments of glory where it all comes together but its rare. All the old mission/camp/mining spawns and "gameplay loops" are in full force and feel like games we played decades ago. Nobody is investing in the difficult and risky things like advanced physics and AI beyond rudimentary things like ragdoll. But this is where you could actually wow people.

TLDR Ubi (and everyone else) don't have gameplay thats any better than what has been done, so they're not focusing on that. Since graphics is the only thing they can point at, thats what they do. No point in showing gameplay that doesn't feel different.

 

[larryfox]

On a technicality it's is gameplay trailer though lol. They showed us stylized trailer of gameplay.

 

[Deleted member 364]

Not specific to Ubisoft, but perhaps a better, universally accepted terminology should be adopted by the industry to avoid these confusions in the future.

Non-interactive real-time cutscene...implies graphics rendered locally using game engine's renderer and in-engine assets.

Interactive gameplay footage...video footage that is actively controlled from a player's perspective and is indicative of what customers should expect when they actually "play" the game.

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Probably should have just called it an "in-engine teaser"

edit: Hell I don't know. Technically there is gameplay in that trailer lol.

 

[Kinthey]

I thought the ship sailing bits were gameplay no?

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My assumption is that a bunch of it is gameplay filmed in cinematic angles. Like there'll probably be a special ability to blow your Viking horn, new melee ability where you can tackle an enemy etc.

They really just should have called this an in-game trailer though (but the reaction also feels a bit overblown)

 

[Cosmic Voyager]

No, I don't think Microsoft was blindsided by anything. In fact, I never once implied that they were. I know how marketing events work, I know who controls them. I know Microsoft discussed with Ubisoft showing off more of their Assassin's Creed game, but I also know that Ubisoft is fully responsible for messaging and communication of their game at these events.

This is like saying E3 is responsible for a bad conference at their show.

Ubisoft is responsible for the marketing of their game, full stop. If Ubisoft doesn't communicate correctly, that's on them.

This is pretty simple stuff really

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That's a faulty analogy. It would be more like Microsoft being responsible for having a bad conference at E3-- Microsoft is not forced to show anything they don't want to, in a way they don't want to. Devs/pubs can say "here's what we have, would you still like to include us in your show?" and Microsoft can say yes or no accordingly. As the hosts and curators of their own event, they hold most of the responsibility for this stuff.

 

[Selphie]

Ubisoft can do no wrong, so many people just eat all the crap they spew out it's embarrassing.

 

[larryfox]

its seems to me that some people conflated gameplay trailer and gameplay demo lol. Ubisoft didn't lie about anything. I wonder if they showed the exact same footage but They had HUD overlay would people still be mad?

 

[Dphex]

Ubisoft normally show a lot of their games before release I don't know why this is even a thing the game is like 6 months away.

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Ubisoft has a track record for misleading trailers. Watch Dogs, AC: Unity, The Division to call a few.

now they are doing gameplay trailers without gameplay, no one needs those.

its seems to me that some people conflated gameplay trailer and gameplay demo lol.

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nitpicking at its finest. doesn´t matter if it is called demo or trailer-when the word gameplay is in it, people expect gameplay.

 

[Deleted member 18944]

Ubisoft can do no wrong, so many people just eat all the crap they spew out it's embarrassing.

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What's embarrassing is framing people's points of "this doesn't need to be a video" and "this isn't a big deal" as "ubisoft can do no wrong."

 

[Deleted member 56266]

While I obviously agree with his point, the video was about 5 minutes longer than it needed to be. He kept rambling in circles, but anything to get to that sweet 10 minute mark for youtubers.

 

[Uthred]

Ubisoft can do no wrong, so many people just eat all the crap they spew out it's embarrassing.

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Ha. Is this your first day on the internet? Ubisoft, often deservedly, are continuously getting shit on.

 

[larryfox]

Ubisoft has a track record for misleading trailers. Watch Dogs, AC: Unity, The Division to call a few.

now they are doing gameplay trailers without gameplay, no one needs those.



nitpicking at its finest. doesn´t matter if it is called demo or trailer-when the word gameplay is in it, people expect gameplay.

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But it was gameplay just a trailer, stylized version of it. Would you still feel the same way if they didn't edit the gameplay and removed the HUD? I don't feel like I'm nitpicking.

 

[Ebnas]

You have my shield, Ubisoft! Hark, here come the peasants that expected gameplay from you when all you promised was gameplay. Stand back, mi'lady!

 

[larryfox]

While I obviously agree with his point, the video was about 5 minutes longer than it needed to be. He kept rambling in circles, but anything to get to that sweet 10 minute mark for youtubers.

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Is that we've confirmed that 10 minutes means more money? A lot video game youtubers do that and It's rather annoying to me.

 

[Sanka]

I mean all of what we have seen was gameplay or cutscenes filmed with some kind of cinematic camera. I guess calling it in-engine cinematic trailer is more accurate.

 

[MysticGon]

Maybe you play as the camera

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Lol

I'm glad he singled out Ubisoft for clearly lying to everyone. I think all those small devs just catching collateral damage by being featured in the same showcase. Honestly it would have been better had Ubisoft mot shown up.

 

[DeadmansTheory]

Honestly though, maybe it was gameplay.
Maybe the game will have playable segments where you control, what was it, some trees, the prow of a ship and a castle.
I mean. We don't know! Maybe this will be the first Shrubbery Assassin simulation.

Edit: yes I'm salty about this "world premier gameplay" shit.

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[GymWolf86]

edit

 

[PsyDec]

Are we really gonna act like Ubi was the only non-gameplay trailer at the thing?

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9 out of the 12 games had gameplay in them.

 

[GymWolf86]

How the hell is Microsoft remotely responsible for how Ubisofts decided to market THEIR product?

What's the narrative here? Sounds like some conspiracy theory shit.

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it is not remotely microsoft fault.

 

[ty_hot]

I watched the whole thing waiting for the Gameplay trailer, suddenly the presentation ended and I didnt understand what had happened.

 

[PsyDec]

So, seeing as this is the first time ever in the history of video games that people are deciding to move goalposts around what 'gameplay' is (non-playable angles / cinematic angles / no HUD), I want you to watch This apex legends gameplay trailer and explain to me why there wasn't outrage when this launched.

If you agree that the apex trailer was fine, then 9 out of the 12 games had gameplay in the trailers.