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Raijinto

self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
10,091

I'll post his description here shortly. Plus his general impression from the vid. He's not enamoured with it for reasons that I understand.

Edit: from his video description:

"Dreams is the culmination of everything Media Molecule has worked towards for many years. Technically it's impressive, and the people producing content for it are talented as heck... sometimes. Unfortunately, for those looking to play the games rather than make them, Dreams is hard to stick with. The best projects are in "early access" for want of a better term, and they're surrounded by baffling memes, half-baked nonsense, and bids for YouTuber attention. Oh, and tons of copyright infringement. Dreams is amazing, but I'm not very interested in playing more of it. "
 

Kouriozan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,071
His point is understandable indeed, this is user generated content, you're not going to have anything else than short experience for the most part (there is always a few exceptions)
Level designing is already super hard as his, and if in addition you have to create assets and program a game, then yeah only a very few numbers of people can do that well.
Copyright infringement will always be an issue as well, it'll always be easier to copy than to create.
 

Deleted member 21709

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
23,310
His point is understandable indeed, this is user generated content, you're not going to have anything else than short experience for the most part (there is always a few exceptions)
Level designing is already super hard as his, and if in addition you have to create assets and program a game, then yeah only a very few numbers of people can do that well.
Copyright infringement will always be an issue as well, it'll always be easier to copy than to create.

All professional developers were amateurs at some point. Dreams is already showing that there is an incredible pool of talent out there.. I follow curated lists, and have seen mostly great, inventive and well executed dreams.

The 'copyright infringement' issues exist, but on Dreams they are never nefarious due to it not being a platform where people can profit from their creations. It's just fans wanting to recreate their favorite experiences, or re-imagine them.
 

egg

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
6,576
Wonder if he played Art's Dream since he believes that Comic Sands is the best from Mm in the game...
 

Calabi

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,483
It really is funny how critical some people are. "This thing is amazing you can make anything in it.... these hobbyist home developers haven't made everything in it yet, 1 out of 10. You'd think people would be a bit more lenient, when its not AAA developers that are making them. Its hard to see how Dreams will get very far when you have this criticism thrown constantly and its kind of disheartening for the creators. It also seems like Jim has barely played any of the decent games or tech demo's as he calls it.

But yeah that's Jim trust him to go the for the laziest obvious criticism.
 

Yuntu

Prophet of Regret
Member
Nov 7, 2019
10,669
Germany
All professional developers were amateurs at some point. Dreams is already showing that there is an incredible pool of talent out there.. I follow curated lists, and have seen mostly great, inventive and well executed dreams.

The 'copyright infringement' issues exist, but on Dreams they are never nefarious due to it not being a platform where people can profit from their creations. It's just fans wanting to recreate their favorite experiences, or re-imagine them.

I personally think until you can earn money from it there is a certain limited potential to Dreams. Obviously once they do that copyright gets a real issue, but it's a first party game and I'm sure Sony can manage that properly.

And yeah Dreams is a great platform as is, but I think having the potential to earn money from it would really push it to another level.
 

Jobbs

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,639
Pretty much my feelings. Amazing tool and there's some novelty/interest in surfing a few dreams to see what people have done, but it gets old fast because there aren't really any legit games and I don't think there will be unless some form of monetization becomes possible.

If you want to make a tech demo or proof of concept or try out an idea that may be something you can bust out in a weekend or two, but making a legitimate game that is legitimately worth the time of players is another matter, it takes countless hours and most people won't do that without some ability to own their work and make something back from it. People with this talent/mindset will probably just move on to Unity and UE4... And that's fine, but from the player perspective I don't think Dreams holds much interest other than as a curiosity.

IMO its best purpose in its current form is as an educational tool -- Learning the basics of gamedev/programming.
 

Spine Crawler

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
10,228
i thought that this could end the console wars at some point. who needs mario on switch ir halo on xbox when you can have those games in dreams. sonic looked like straight out of sonic teams dev studios.
 

Hero_Select

One Winged Slayer
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,008
It really is funny how critical some people are. "This thing is amazing you can make anything in it.... these hobbyist home developers haven't made everything in it yet, 1 out of 10. You'd think people would be a bit more lenient, when its not AAA developers that are making them. Its hard to see how Dreams will get very far when you have this criticism thrown constantly and its kind of disheartening for the creators. It also seems like Jim has barely played any of the decent games or tech demo's as he calls it.

But yeah that's Jim trust him to go the for the laziest obvious criticism.
Dreams has been very well recieved so I'm not sure what you're trying to say exactly. It's a fantastic game for what it is but Jim has a point. Maybe later down the line creations will be more fun and less memey than they are now but all it takes is one boot up and all you see are Mario clones, Family guy, A recreation of a trailer. Impressive yes, fun? Not really.
 

ArkhamFantasy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,545
It really is funny how critical some people are. "This thing is amazing you can make anything in it.... these hobbyist home developers haven't made everything in it yet, 1 out of 10. You'd think people would be a bit more lenient, when its not AAA developers that are making them. Its hard to see how Dreams will get very far when you have this criticism thrown constantly and its kind of disheartening for the creators. It also seems like Jim has barely played any of the decent games or tech demo's as he calls it.

But yeah that's Jim trust him to go the for the laziest obvious criticism.

Dreams has a 90 opencritic score.
 

Crayon

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,580
Perfectly describes the flipside of dreams.

For instance: You can't have a place for everyone's work and expect to not find mostly mediocre work there. But if you don't have that place for everyone's work, you can't have any of this. Welcome to every creation/user content platform.
 

Omnistalgic

self-requested temp ban
Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,973
NJ
It really is funny how critical some people are. "This thing is amazing you can make anything in it.... these hobbyist home developers haven't made everything in it yet, 1 out of 10. You'd think people would be a bit more lenient, when its not AAA developers that are making them. Its hard to see how Dreams will get very far when you have this criticism thrown constantly and its kind of disheartening for the creators. It also seems like Jim has barely played any of the decent games or tech demo's as he calls it.

But yeah that's Jim trust him to go the for the laziest obvious criticism.
It's a valid criticism though, he said it's super impressive not very fun, he has no intention to create (even if he would likely surprise himself)

I do wish he mentioned whether he enjoyed arts dream Though. My one criticism is simply not enough stuff from Medial Molecule. That square cel-shaded platformer was really charming and cute, I would have loved a 4-5 hour campaign and speed run with It.
 

ghostcrew

The Shrouded Ghost
Administrator
Oct 27, 2017
30,351
Hey you can't have 'the YouTube of video games' without a few years of Charlie Bit My Finger and Lightsaber Kid.

Dreams is a massive pot full of nuts creativity and artistic expression. It's also chock full of shitty memes and rubbish parody stuff. I still maintain that if you go in expecting unlimited actual games at this point then you're setting yourself up for disappointment. People are still learning the tools and may never even get there. It's gonna be a lot of experimentation and tiny projects for the majority of people for a long time. I personally think that's awesome and love to dig into the experiments and get impressed at an impressive wall rendering or whatever. But you're not going in and finding a whole Ocarina of Time. Although I'm sure someone has uploaded a 'SOMEONE MADE OCARINA OF TIME IN DREAMS' video and it's actually just Kokiri Forest with the default puppet physics. That stuff is absolutely the least interesting thing about Dreams to me though.
 

gofreak

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,734
I wonder, as a YouTuber, how he feels when people say they avoid YouTube because it's full of dross.

Of course I suppose it's up to Dreams, its content and creators, to find an audience despite the naysaying over UGC quality variability. I think it's doing that and will do that. And maybe in time it will host content that tempts Jim back.
 
Oct 27, 2017
17,973
Heh, the Media Molecule example he cites as a "short game" and not a more substantial experience, was made during a train jam.

There are plenty of good things to play on the platform. Every week MM curates a collection of a dozen or so games that could take up at least a few hours a week of playtime, if you don't want to be exposed to any and every game level out there.

I have concerns about the social media aspect of dreams as time goes forward. But there are already platforms where you can remix dreams creations for monetary gain, while disparaging individual creators (who are not triple-ayyy or greedy capitalists or whatever category of rhetoric is the usual for him), for the entire world to see. It happened in this video, of which I could also say I'm bored with his platform and won't be going back.
 

Slayven

Never read a comic in his life
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
93,028
I think it will be a lot more interest in a year
 

jml

Member
Mar 9, 2018
4,783
It really is funny how critical some people are. "This thing is amazing you can make anything in it.... these hobbyist home developers haven't made everything in it yet, 1 out of 10. You'd think people would be a bit more lenient, when its not AAA developers that are making them. Its hard to see how Dreams will get very far when you have this criticism thrown constantly and its kind of disheartening for the creators. It also seems like Jim has barely played any of the decent games or tech demo's as he calls it.

But yeah that's Jim trust him to go the for the laziest obvious criticism.
I don't think it's a lazy criticism at all. Almost every game I've played in Dreams has given me the impression of "damn it's really impressive that they managed to make this" but I haven't stumbled across anything that I actually want to go back and play after the initial novelty of it wears off. I'm cool with that and feel like I've gotten my money's worth but I totally understand why that wouldn't be everyone's thing. Some people would rather spend their time with fully fleshed out games than all of the novelties that are in Dreams.

Fans of Dreams come off as really overdefensive about it sometimes.
 
OP
OP
Raijinto

Raijinto

self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
10,091
I don't think it's a lazy criticism at all. Almost every game I've played in Dreams has given me the impression of "damn it's really impressive that they managed to make this" but I haven't stumbled across anything that I actually want to go back and play after the initial novelty of it wears off. I'm cool with that and feel like I've gotten my money's worth but I totally understand why that wouldn't be everyone's thing. Some people would rather spend their time with fully fleshed out games than all of the novelties that are in Dreams.

Fans of Dreams come off as really overdefensive about it sometimes.

Exactly. Jim calls it impressive and only has praise for the tools and creativity that it allows but he finds the game people have made boring and shallow, with good reason, and even then he fully acknowledges that it's early days and this could- should even- change in the coming weeks/months/years(?). It's just he doesn't really want to play it again because he is bored. And he's not the only one. Dreams' longevity with this in mind will be one to watch.
 

Calabi

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,483
I don't think it's a lazy criticism at all. Almost every game I've played in Dreams has given me the impression of "damn it's really impressive that they managed to make this" but I haven't stumbled across anything that I actually want to go back and play after the initial novelty of it wears off. I'm cool with that and feel like I've gotten my money's worth but I totally understand why that wouldn't be everyone's thing. Some people would rather spend their time with fully fleshed out games than all of the novelties that are in Dreams.

Fans of Dreams come off as really overdefensive about it sometimes.

Here's a question what even classes as a game, the way Jim use the words Tech demo it basically sounds like a veiled insult, "they haven't made a proper game its just a shitty tech demo). Does it have to have 10 hours of gameplay, with a progression system and the potential for microtransactions for it to class as a game and not a tech demo in his mind. The thing is its never going to likely have several hour long experiences. Those are going to be really rare if their are any at all and beyond most people's time and abilities. He may as well just criticise Youtube and TikTok for being shit, he should know what Dreams is about. Its like Dreams isn't even being allowed to get off the ground by some people.

There are loads of things I would class as pretty good games on their currently, like, Arts Dream, The Pilgrim, a realistic Pool game, Pip GemWalker, Opposite Day, Do Robots Dream of Electric Imps, Ommy Kart, Cubric, Art Therapy, Ball World, Ruckus, Galaxy Cadet, Proptopis Pete. To name a few, how are these tech demo's or not worth the admission alone?

The thing is I know how difficult it is to create, to put your things out and have them torn apart and criticised by others and these people are doing it for free. It would be nice if people were a little bit more patient and tactful and understanding, instead of laughing and taking the piss out of that thing they call a trash tech demo that a kid might have spent a few weeks making. That's just my opinion I'm not going to argue or say anymore on the matter.
 

Moebius

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,384
The price is justified. The tools are great and the stuff you can play is fun and will only get better. Games like Proteus Pete are awesome.
 
Jan 10, 2018
6,927
Dreams seems like a truly great initiative and it's kinda interesting to watch footage of, but I have zero interest in actually playing it. Maybe it will change in the future when people start making more profound games. At the moment it's just as Jim says; mostly a bunch of short tech demos that rip off licensed stuff.
 

jroc74

Member
Oct 27, 2017
28,992
They should make it a development platform like Roblox.
This is a good point. And if it can get to Roblox level of awareness, popularity that would be amazing.

Maybe MM can release some levels, games down the line. For the LBP series I stuck to the main campaign, my kids loved the user created stuff tho.
 

NekoNeko

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
18,447
first time in a while that i agree with jim. impressive piece of software that i will never touch again.
 

Speevy

Member
Oct 26, 2017
19,326
Full disclosure, I don't have Dreams, but isn't the point to making tech demos at first so you can build on them and make a much larger game? (or can you not do that in Dreams?)
 

AGoodODST

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,480
I agree with his sentiment (though to be fair I haven't played, basing this one videos I've seen.

We went through a period where there was constant threads like "look at this amazing game made in Dreams!!!" and you would go into the thread and watch the video and it's just some terrible looking barely a tech demo thing (the recent Sonic one and the Donkey Kong ones being good examples).

Like it's a cool game and the tools are really impressive but it's never going to live up to its promise.
 

Speevy

Member
Oct 26, 2017
19,326
I agree with his sentiment (though to be fair I haven't played, basing this one videos I've seen.

We went through a period where there was constant threads like "look at this amazing game made in Dreams!!!" and you would go into the thread and watch the video and it's just some terrible looking barely a tech demo thing (the recent Sonic one and the Donkey Kong ones being good examples).

Like it's a cool game and the tools are really impressive but it's never going to live up to its promise.

Well I mean it takes hours just to make Mario animate right from scratch. Fuck knows how long it takes to make an entire level with stars and whatnot.
 

Deleted member 2254

user requested account closure
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Oct 25, 2017
21,467
There's something ironic about Jim Sterling complaining about the Youtuber-bait content, but hey. He's definitely got a point though, because as a game itself Dreams doesn't have a lot to offer. It's an amazing tool for people who want to create cool experiences and are willing to put the time and effort, without needing to learn proper game coding. A bit like the custom map and mod scene in many PC games.

There is however a huge difference between Dreams and the crazy WADs people make for Doom, the innovative custom maps that spawned stuff like DOTA or tower defense in StarCraft and WarCraft 3, or even stuff like Trials. Those games are brilliant titles on their own: if you don't want to mess with the editor or play crazy shenanigans made by others, there's an incredibly deep and satisfying base game to mess around with. They're games for everybody, in that sense.

Dreams will no doubt attract a lot of media attention for the remakes and the crazy ideas the community makes. The joke ones especially, like the RDR2 simulator. But at the end of the day, it'll always be a fascinating thing to look a YouTube video about or play yourself for a couple minutes, thinking "damn, I didn't think this was possible", but at no point these projects can compete with the myriad of incredible games out there. Not that they should, mind, but it's worth keeping in mind. It's fascinating to create stuff in it and to follow creations, but at the end of the day it's a bit like watching how people make relatively complex graphics and gameplay mechanisms on old Ataris or NES'. It's fun as an idea, but it's really not that exciting to actually put hours and hours into playing those projects.

I still expect a couple fun game modes to spawn from the game that may even spawn their own genres.
 

AGoodODST

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,480
Well I mean it takes hours just to make Mario animate right from scratch. Fuck knows how long it takes to make an entire level with stars and whatnot.

Yeah I guess that's my point I suppose. The tools are really good but the time and effort to actually make something that both looks and plays good is going to be too much for the majority of players. Sure some die hard players will make worthwhile stuff but for the entirety of the games life span the vast majority of stuff on it is going to be, well a bit shit.
 

eyeball_kid

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,225
Jim is entitled to whatever opinions he wants to have, but it's disappointing to me that so many are quick to attack something that is one of the most revolutionary things we've seen in videogames in a long time. We have barely begun to see the type of professional and innovative games and art projects that will come out for it, and statements like, "I'm not very interested in playing more of it" show a lack of awareness of that. We should be celebrating such a pure, democratizing playground for creativity and trying to make sure it thrives.
 

Speevy

Member
Oct 26, 2017
19,326
I also don't see why 5 minutes worth of content is really a problem.

That's plenty of time to experience something when there's dozens or hundreds more you might want to try.

Even if no one creates a 10 hour game ( they will), someone could make a game of pool or tennis with basic rules and fun gameplay. Hours of fun.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the most frequent complaint lodged against LIttleBigPlanet wasn't how short it was, but rather that the controls weren't tight enough, right? Here people are making whatever controls they want.

www.youtube.com

Snowboard Dreams Feb Progress

Dreamshttps://store.playstation.com/#!/en-us/tid=CUSA08010_00


This snowboarding game already justifies Dreams' existence.
 

Iwao

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,781
He didn't even play Art's Dream.

It's plastered on the first row of "Dream Surfing". How could anyone miss it unless they tried? Anyway, as a $40 product (cheaper for those in early access) it's already offered well over $40 worth of gameplay.

at no point these projects can compete with the myriad of incredible games out there.
That's a very finite statement for absolute works in progress.
 

Euler

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,836
Jim is entitled to whatever opinions he wants to have, but it's disappointing to me that so many are quick to attack something that is one of the most revolutionary things we've seen in videogames in a long time. We have barely begun to see the type of professional and innovative games and art projects that will come out for it, and statements like, "I'm not very interested in playing more of it" show a lack of awareness of that. We should be celebrating such a pure, democratizing playground for creativity and trying to make sure it thrives.
It's not wrong for anyone to judge this game by how it is to play today.

In 4 or 5 years it might have multiple must-play Dreams and be one of the best games of the generation, but it will take time.
 

Deleted member 2254

user requested account closure
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Oct 25, 2017
21,467
He didn't even play Art's Dream.

It's plastered on the first row of "Dream Surfing". How could anyone miss it unless they tried?


That's a very finite statement for absolute works in progress.

Why? It's obvious Dreams projects will not suddenly compete with triple-A productions, even most of the good indies. Different possibilities, budgets and so on. This isn't a jab at the game or an attempt to find a "gotcha" moment. As someone who adores creative games having put god knows how many hours in games with meaty editors, it's how it is.
 

Speevy

Member
Oct 26, 2017
19,326
It's not wrong for anyone to judge this game by how it is to play today.

In 4 or 5 years it might have multiple must-play Dreams and be one of the best games of the generation, but it will take time.

It already seems to have multiple must-plays, just apparently not games that cost millions of dollars to make with 400 people working on it. Damn it Media Molecule. How could you forget to include professional developers in the box?
 

Iwao

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,781
Why? It's obvious Dreams projects will not suddenly compete with triple-A productions, even most of the good indies. Different possibilities, budgets and so on. This isn't a jab at the game or an attempt to find a "gotcha" moment. As someone who adores creative games having put god knows how many hours in games with meaty editors, it's how it is.
Oh so it's AAA you're looking for? Well obviously not, nobody was expecing that: not Sony, not Mm, not LBP fans, nobody. It's a game engine which lets people do almost anything you might expect given the time that is put in but no-one is financing the AAA and that's to be expected. I'm already seeing games made in a few months that look close enough to be released and complete indie games, which is marvellous in and of itself.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the most frequent complaint lodged against LIttleBigPlanet wasn't how short it was, but rather that the controls weren't tight enough, right? Here people are making whatever controls they want.
Yep. Creators struggled but somewhat succeeded to make quality non-platforming games in LBP. Its campaign wasn't short, but its controls were terrible, they were locked down, and the actual diversity of content in the package wasn't good because it was made to be a UGC tool within the confines of the LBP template. Along comes Dreams which is without a doubt one of the most innnovative things in years, is leaps-and-bounds more impressive and flexible than LBP, but we have complaints about short games and no "full" ones only weeks after release. Where were these criticisms in LBP over 10 years ago? That game was unanimously praised even though its shortcomings are far more egregious than Dreams.
 
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Euler

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,836
It already seems to have multiple must-plays, just apparently not games that cost millions of dollars to make with 400 people working on it. Damn it Media Molecule. How could you forget to include professional developers in the box?
That's the point though, good games are time consuming to make so nobody should be offended when people say there aren't enough great ones yet for them.

Dreams is only gonna get better so obviously the weakest point in its lifetime is right after launch.
 

KDR_11k

Banned
Nov 10, 2017
5,235
Sounds to me like you're better off waiting a few more years for the library to populate with games you'd want to play. Until then you can browse itch.io if you need your experimental game fix...

Wonder who will shake out to be the long term developers. Will there be Patreon-funded devs running a few major projects? Will most of the effort go into furry stuff?

Why do they need to? Dreams is the game. When are they going to offer the level of customization or variety offered in Dreams?
But you don't play Dreams itself, you play the games made within Dreams.
 

Coi

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,808
It's a good tool for the "look that "insert random game name name here" recreated in Dreams!
 

Deleted member 2254

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
21,467
Oh so it's AAA you're looking for? Well obviously not, nobody was expecing that: not Sony, not Mm, not LBP fans, nobody. It's a game engine which lets people do almost anything you might expect given the time that is put in but no-one is financing the AAA and that's to be expected. I'm already seeing games made in a few months that look close enough to be released and complete indie games, which is marvellous in and of itself.

Told you I'm not "looking for" games to compete with Fortnite or Call of Duty, but this game inevitably competes with everything else on the market as well. I adore creative games, you have no idea how much time I spent creating stuff in Minecraft, TrackMania, the Ricochet games, Mario Maker, and also did a bit of modding myself here and there, albeit it was very basic stuff. I even program a little bit so I created a couple minigames here and there. Juggled with physics engines. I adore having a limited environment out of which there's a challenge of extracting the most complex, most ambitious thing. Just for the sake of proving that even this is possible with such limited tools.

But obviously this isn't the case for everybody, hence I understand why a lot of people are finding limited appeal in Dreams. If you're not planning to lose dozens or hundreds of hours to build something crazy good, chances are you'll just play other people's creations. And many such creations will inevitably be fun but flawed remakes, proof of concept style gameplay scenarios that don't quite have dozens of hours of gameplay in them as polished as they may be (hence most "game x recreated in Dreams" levels, so far, have like a single level). Playing those things is fascinating but they inevitably have limited appeal when you can play "the real deal" as well.
 

Le Dude

Member
May 16, 2018
4,709
USA
Level designing is already super hard as his, and if in addition you have to create assets and program a game, then yeah only a very few numbers of people can do that well.
That's my biggest concern with the software. As is, it's an amazing suite of tools. However making quality content is always going to be difficult, especially quality level design. The amount of people that are able to do it all and put out a compelling "product", so to speak, is pretty slim. You'll get some teams of people putting things out, but now you're looking at involving multiple people committing to something unpaid over a period of time that's going to be locked to essentially a single platform. I hope it works out, but I think at the very least they need to move it to PC as well and they need to be putting out educational "seminars" that go over the concepts that drive good game design, and not just how to use the tools.
 

Iwao

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,781
It's a good tool for the "look that "insert random game name name here" recreated in Dreams!
Sure it's good for that, but that's just the stuff that's getting promoted due to its meme potential and familiarity. Emulating other games and styles of play is a fantastic way to learn the tools as well which is part of the reason that is what a lot of people want to create when they get their hands on it.

Copyright infringement will always be an issue as well, it'll always be easier to copy than to create.
The reason people copy because it's an easier frame of reference than a blank slate, especially for people new to this kind of thing. It's a great way to learn, and sure copyright infringement is an issue, but assets can be swapped out.

The Trials games had some crazy poweful editors, too. It's something one would likely not suspect from a side-view bike racing game, but since it allowed you to mess with game rules, scripts, camera angles and core gameplay mechanisms, people created a functional (and polished!) Call Of Duty Zombies remake among other things it.

But there's two things to Trials that a game like Dreams lacks: first of all, Trials ships with a very compelling campaign with dozens, hundreds of hours of fun to be had without ever needing to touch the editor. And second, making a decent level with Trials' editor is not hard, what is hard is rewriting the game from scratch. So you can have very compelling game experiences in the editor with only an hour or so of messing around, whereas Dreams naturally requires a lot more effort.
Dreams has many, many user-created templates and assets in every category that you can use as a starting point in your game and remix as you like. It's only if you're creating something absolutely brand new that that becomes an issue.
 
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Deleted member 2254

user requested account closure
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Oct 25, 2017
21,467
That's my biggest concern with the software. As is, it's an amazing suite of tools. However making quality content is always going to be difficult, especially quality level design. The amount of people that are able to do it all and put out a compelling "product", so to speak, is pretty slim. You'll get some teams of people putting things out, but now you're looking at involving multiple people committing to something unpaid over a period of time that's going to be locked to essentially a single platform. I hope it works out, but I think at the very least they need to move it to PC as well and they need to be putting out educational "seminars" that go over the concepts that drive good game design, and not just how to use the tools.

The Trials games had some crazy poweful editors, too. It's something one would likely not suspect from a side-view bike racing game, but since it allowed you to mess with game rules, scripts, camera angles and core gameplay mechanisms, people created a functional (and polished!) Call Of Duty Zombies remake among other things it.

But there's two things to Trials that a game like Dreams lacks: first of all, Trials ships with a very compelling campaign with dozens, hundreds of hours of fun to be had without ever needing to touch the editor. And second, making a decent level with Trials' editor is not hard, what is hard is rewriting the game from scratch. So you can have very compelling game experiences in the editor with only an hour or so of messing around, whereas Dreams naturally requires a lot more effort.
 

Speevy

Member
Oct 26, 2017
19,326
I think Media Molecule knew a bunch of content would be taken from other games, and they're probably hoping that makes it more successful.

I don't think anyone really knows how this game gets around having its content yanked, but if it hasn't happened by now, I doubt it's going to be an issue.