Jim Ryan: PlayStation about big blockbuster games that cost a lot to make, Game Pass model would not make financial sense

Callibretto · Sep 17, 2020

TechnicPuppet said:
Lies, all lies.

well maybe not necessarily mtx or multiplayer focused. but engagement is definitely a big factor for MS. Sea of Thieves, Grounded, and apparently Halo is also gonna be platforms.

Sony AAA cinematic games are the kind of games that you played once and move on to the next game, maybe come back for occasional dlc, MS games seems to favor games that you keep playing for a long time with continuous updates. because making you to keep your subscription is a huge part of MS business model.

nothing wrong with that kind of games. but for me personally, I like Sony type of games more. a game that has definite ending that you can move on from.

Midas · Sep 17, 2020

Bait02 said:
If Sony wants to classify its games as "blockbusters", than I'm inevitably drawn to make comparisons with comparable Blockbuster experiences.
With 80€ I can a single Ps5 game, or I can buy about 12 movie tickets, 4-5 ultra HD blu ray movies, 5 months of 4K Netflix family subscription...which offers more value ?

Depends on the length. Last of Us 2 = around 25 hours of gameplay. Which is longer than than 12 movie tickets and 4-5 Ultra HD movies.

Alak96 · Sep 17, 2020

Let's see if 80€ games make "financial sense" to your European customers (Sony's biggest market) past the Holiday rush, then.

Kilgore · Sep 17, 2020

Betty said:
I tried Wasteland 3, despite my aversion to isometric games I gave it a go.

I cringed at the character select screen and how poor the character models were.

I got about 5 minute into the game and turned it off, it just wasn't for me.

More power to people the games on Game Pass appeal to but for me I mostly don't find anything that pulls my attention

Oh come on, the game is mostly crowdfunded, and most of the development was made by Inxile being independent with limited resources. You know the game is not like that because of game pass. W3 is in fact the most refined game of InXile in almost any department.

unicornKnight · Sep 17, 2020

Kilgore said:
Ok Jimbo, like you believed in generations. The nerve...

Making cross gen titles means he doesn't believe in generations? Well guess what, you misunderstood their comments and now you are pissed for translating things your own way.

And Jim is right, look at Netflix, a ton of crap shits. PS4 won because it had the upper hand in first party games. Let's wait and see if XGS can output games like Horizon, GoW, Uncharted, Last of Us. Game pass is great I'm a subscriber but I doubt they would ever make such great titles only to give them day one in a subscription.

Sony is going the quality road, Microsoft is doing the quantity.

And so far the Sony way is the winning way. I think people are pissed because they want Sony first party quality and Microsoft game pass pricing. Guess what, you can't have both.

Stoopkid · Sep 17, 2020

TechnicPuppet said:
It doesn't?

um no? Sony supporting ps3 while ps4 was out didn't mean that.
Sony supporting ps2 while ps3 was out didn't mean that.

get2sammyb · Sep 17, 2020

Gareth said:
Is this going to be one of those things Sony dismisses now but starts doing too somewhere down the line?

If that's the direction the market goes, yes. But they clearly don't believe that right now they can make more money putting all their games on a subscription than they do selling 10 million-plus units individually.

They'll obviously have monitored the numbers closely.

jdstorm · Sep 17, 2020

Betty said:
Because I want these big AAA experiences? Like TLOU2, Ghost of Tsushima, Spider-Man, God of War etc.

Game Pass for Sony would slowly kill off games like that in favour of lower cost, multiplayer focused, MTX riddled games instead.

this is untrue. What gamepass is seeing is the rise of single player games that aren't dependent on an active community to attract new people to try them out on the service.

shorter single player games not full of open world bloat with modest budgets are the types of games that drive subscriptions

MatrixMan.exe · Sep 17, 2020

I don't know why people in here are angry when it's true? Sony's business model is to pour money into high budget games that yield high unit sales. Game Pass flies in the face of that. It works for Microsoft given the kinds of diverse, mostly service driven titles that they make that vary wildly in budget and scale. Nothing is wrong with either strategy. People need to relax.

scaryrobots · Sep 17, 2020

Betty said:
Because I want these big AAA experiences? Like TLOU2, Ghost of Tsushima, Spider-Man, God of War etc.

Game Pass for Sony would slowly kill off games like that in favour of lower cost, multiplayer focused, MTX riddled games instead.

FlightSim 2020 is a lot like Spiderman. One game you're swinging from building to building, the other you're just always swinging . :D

Deleted member 51539 · Sep 17, 2020

Bait02 said:
If Sony wants to classify its games as "blockbusters", than I'm inevitably drawn to make comparisons with comparable Blockbuster experiences.
With 80€ I can a single Ps5 game, or I can buy about 12 movie tickets, 4-5 ultra HD blu ray movies, 5 months of 4K Netflix family subscription...which offers more value ?

You know this will only convince them to make their games longer somehow, please, for all that is holy don't give them more ideas.

Deleted member 32135 · Sep 17, 2020

His Majesty said:
I'm glad that 80 euro for Europe does make financial sense for you, Jim.

This.

Fuck off Jim.

Deleted member 8852 · Sep 17, 2020

Thanks for the 80 euro games Jim, ya dingus.

bruhaha · Sep 17, 2020

I think we need to see Game Pass succeed profitability-wise before expecting other companies like 2K, Sony, and Activision to copy it.

Companies can't be profitable with this model unless they get tons of regularly paying subscribers and lots of current Game Pass customers are conversions from Gold who aren't paying full price. Personally I wouldn't pay $15 except for months where there was a specific game I wanted to play which has only been like 3 months this year. That makes me a bad customer for them.

They'd need to reach critical mass with both content and enough users who can pay for that content like Netflix did.

Raonak · Sep 17, 2020

Yeah makes sense. These big budget games must be hella expensive.

TechnicPuppet · Sep 17, 2020

Callibretto said:
well maybe not necessarily mtx or multiplayer focused. but engagement is definitely a big factor for MS. Sea of Thieves, Grounded, and apparently Halo is also gonna be platforms.

Sony AAA cinematic games are the kind of games that you played once and move on to the next game, maybe come back for occasional dlc, MS games seems to favor games that you keep playing for a long time with continuous updates. because making you to keep your subscription is a huge part of MS business model.

nothing wrong with that kind of games. but for me personally, I like Sony type of games more. a game that has definite ending that you can move on from.

It's fuck all to do with Gamepass. Gamepass model encourages variety. For every Destiny 2 you have a Hellblade 2.

Bradbatross · Sep 17, 2020

snowhite said:
Yeah, like it killed off single-player games from Microsoft. Wish we could have Hellblade 2, or a new Fable. Or a Perfect Dark reboot. Imagine a AAA rpg from Obsidian. All the things that could've been, but gamepass fucking ruined it.

To be fair, MS has much deeper pockets than Sony, so they're able to do Game Pass and big-budget AAA exclusives. Next-gen is going to be insane for Xbox gamers.

Kasey · Sep 17, 2020

Also why Miles and Horizon are cross gen.

GovernWort · Sep 17, 2020

Can't believe anything Sony say now.

NPTinker · Sep 17, 2020

Betty said:
Imagine your a publisher/developer

Do you spend tens of MILLIONS making a game that takes 5-6 years to produce and only turns an income for a short period before dropping in price that has no way to get further money from gamers?

or

Do you spend much, MUCH less on a game that takes a year or two to produce that turns a HUGE profit and can be riddled with MTX and DLC and battle Passes to keep money rolling in for longer?

on a game pass type subscription especially the choice would be VERY clear for coporations, you go the cheaper but bigger return route.

or you know, diversify your game lineup like what Nintendo are doing

Abominuz · Sep 17, 2020

TechnicPuppet said:
Kinda like we believe in generations eh.

Why are people bashing on Jim? Phil has also said the same thing and lied and he is being praised as honest. These are still executives that need to sell their product. There is still so much confusion from Sony and MS what games will be on previous generations and what will not.

pswii60 · Sep 17, 2020

bruhaha said:
Even the higher tier EA subscription doesn't have all their games day one.

It does.

Mashy · Sep 17, 2020

Gareth said:
Is this going to be one of those things Sony dismisses now but starts doing too somewhere down the line?

Like is that a bad thing?

What's wrong with them trying to make money now with what they know works and changing their minds later if they feel like going down another direction?

CreepingFear · Sep 17, 2020

Services are the future. MS sees it. Apple sees it. etc.

Stoopkid · Sep 17, 2020

pswii60 said:
It does.

Madden 21 and etc don't come day 1 on ea play.

Kilgore · Sep 17, 2020

unicornKnight said:
Making cross gen titles means he doesn't believe in generations? Well guess what, you misunderstood their comments and now you are pissed for translating things your own way.

And Jim is right, look at Netflix, a ton of crap shits. PS4 won because it had the upper hand in first party games. Let's wait and see if XGS can output games like Horizon, GoW, Uncharted, Last of Us. Game pass is great I'm a subscriber but I doubt they would ever make such great titles only to give them day one in a subscription.

Sony is going the quality road, Microsoft is doing the quantity.

And so far the Sony way is the winning way. I think people are pissed because they want Sony first party quality and Microsoft game pass pricing. Guess what, you can't have both.

What exactly I should get about Sony saying we believe in generations and trying to pass some of their games as PS5 only in June? They absolutely tried to pretend they were not doind the same as microsoft with crossgen titles.

Betty · Sep 17, 2020

snowhite said:
Yeah, like it killed off single-player games from Microsoft. Wish we could have Hellblade 2, or a new Fable. Or a Perfect Dark reboot. Imagine a AAA rpg from Obsidian. All the things that could've been, but gamepass fucking ruined it.

Microsoft gave away 3 years of Game Pass ultimate by upgarding for a dollar... Sony cannot afford to do that.

Microsoft can afford to pay AAA experiences even as Game Pass makes them far less profit because gaming isn't where they make the majority of their money.

Sony can't just flush cash down the toilet and keep putting out the same AAA content, financially they'll start to look at their profits and go "welp, we can't keep going like this, we'll need to scale back the AAA productions, move to AA games more often or embrace GAAS"

TreeMePls · Sep 17, 2020

TechnicPuppet said:
It doesn't?

They can believe in a stop gap for their software lineup and still support the prior gen with system updates and continued manufacturing, like they have done with the PS2 and PS3.

thebigword · Sep 17, 2020

snowhite said:
Yeah, like it killed off single-player games from Microsoft. Wish we could have Hellblade 2, or a new Fable. Or a Perfect Dark reboot. Imagine a AAA rpg from Obsidian. All the things that could've been, but gamepass fucking ruined it.

Hahaha, amazing. Can't wait for Hellblade 2 and Avowed.

Scubdi · Sep 17, 2020

Stoopkid said:
Madden 21 and etc don't come day 1 on ea play.

They come on the more expensive pc version

pswii60 · Sep 17, 2020

Stoopkid said:
Madden 21 and etc don't come day 1 on ea play.

They do on the "higher tier" subscription EA Play Pro which the poster I quoted referred to.

Croc Man · Sep 17, 2020

PlayStation should be about the niche, weird and quirky not just blockbuster games.

Weird thing is back in the glory days of PS+ and the instant game collection they did include most of their biggest games.

TechnicPuppet · Sep 17, 2020

Abominuz said:
Why are people bashing on Jim? Phil has also said the same thing and lied and he is being praised as honest. These are still executives that need to sell their product. There is still so much confusion from Sony and MS what games will be on previous generations and what will not.

This is off topic now but that isn't true at all. Phil said the opposite.

Wet Jimmy · Sep 17, 2020

I don't think Jim Ryan lets reality get in the way of convenient story.

Jiraiya · Sep 17, 2020

It's all about perception. Subs make money and i can't imagine how the largest install base wouldn't continue to give them gobs of it.

Fredrik · Sep 17, 2020

bakedpony said:
Aside from Forza , what else is there? Hellblade 2 is the first 1st party output of Ninja Theory so that is still unproven. Fable reboot is a long ways off. I'm talking about expensive AAA games. They have cool AA ones liek state of decay and ori

MS has doubled it's first party studios and to my knowledge their projects and budgets are still unknown. We barely know anything at all.

Stoopkid · Sep 17, 2020

pswii60 said:
They do on the "higher tier" subscription EA Play Pro which the poster I quoted referred to.

Ahh I see. I stand corrected.

AgonyRon · Sep 17, 2020

Betty said:
I don't give a damn how Sony does financially.

I do give a damn about getting the type of games I want and I feel a Game Pass type subscription would kill off the type of AAA productions i've come to love from Sony.

Can you back that up with statistics or are you guessing it?

aevanhoe · Sep 17, 2020

His Majesty said:
PlayStation 5 launches in November, starting at $399 for PS5 Digital Edition and $499 for PS5 with Ultra HD Blu-Ray Disc Drive

New games announced at PS5 Showcase, including Final Fantasy XVI, Hogwarts Legacy, and a new God of War title

blog.playstation.com

Astro's Playroom (Japan Studio) – pre-installed on PS5

Demon's Souls (Bluepoint Games / Japan Studio) – US$69.99/CAD$89.99/¥7,900/€79.99 (RRP)

Destruction All Stars (Lucid Games / XDEV) – US$69.99/CAD$89.99/¥7,900/€79.99 (RRP)

Marvel's Spider-Man: Miles Morales (Insomniac Games) – US$49.99/CAD$64.99/¥5,900/€59.99 (RRP)

Marvel's Spider-Man: Miles Morales Ultimate Edition (Insomniac Games) – US$69.99/CAD$89.99/¥7,900/€79.99 (RRP)

Sackboy A Big Adventure (Sumo Digital / XDEV) – US$59.99/CAD$79.99/¥6,900/€69.99 (RRP)

I don't use this phrase a lot, but: this is bullshit. 80e for games? WTF? And what really pisses me off is how this difference only grows. In my country, games were already 70e when you convert it from our currency, now I wouldn't be surprised they get to 100.

Betty · Sep 17, 2020

NPTinker said:
or you know, diversify your game lineup like what Nintendo are doing

Are they about to launch a game pass service anytime soon?

Nope.

Know why?

They'd lose a fuck ton of money.

Know why?

Because their games sell like crack just like Sony's.

Until they are forced to they won't, and it doesn't change the fact that because Nintendo are adopting their current model they can afford to keep making their AAA games at such high quality since their games sell so damn well.

RedPanda · Sep 17, 2020

aevanhoe said:
I don't use this phrase a lot, but: this is bullshit. 80e for games? WTF? And what really pisses me off is how this difference only grows. In my country, games were already 70e when you convert it from our currency, now I wouldn't be surprised they get to 100.

exactly this. and i am not sure if i've been the only one to notice but games on the ps store are usually 10 euro's more expensive than the cd versions. so i guess the ps store games will be 90 euro,.

Abominuz · Sep 17, 2020

TechnicPuppet said:
This is off topic now but that isn't true at all. Phil said the opposite.

To me it sounds like you defending one and accusing the other. Phil said that he will focus on generations, all games accessible on all consoles. But after the most recent show MS stated.

Our future Xbox Game Studios titles are being developed natively for Xbox Series X. We will continue to invest in tools for devs to scale across consoles. Which consoles each Studio/game can support will be based on what's best for their game and their community at launch

So it is the choice of the Studio to support this gen consoles, the same it seems for Sony.

harz-marz · Sep 17, 2020

This makes my decision to get an Xbox Series X all the more tempting. I am stuck for time as a gamer and Gamepass gives such value and flexibility.

AHA-Lambda · Sep 17, 2020

I'm sure Halo, Gear, Forza etc aren't cheap either....

E.T. · Sep 17, 2020

AgonyRon said:
Can you back that up with statistics or are you guessing it?

I believe that statment has more to do with taste than statistics, or maybe I am misreading it.

BBboy20 · Sep 17, 2020

I mean, they've been in this path since Plus and Now, just never went all the way.

Sapo84 · Sep 17, 2020

aevanhoe said:
Wait - $70 is 80 euros in Europe? Not 70?

Where's the logic in that?? $60 games were 60 euro and now $70 games are 80? (And 1 euro is > 1 USD)

Is this confirmed?

1€ is not > 1USD in the context of this price since european prices already include VAT, which ranges from 17% to 27% (the average is around 21-22%).
I would personally be ok with 70$-75€ (I mean, I would love them being cheaper, but if the baseline is the 70$ there's not much to do) like it was ok for Switch to be 300$/330€.

M4xim1l1ano · Sep 17, 2020

Eventually MS 1P will be pumping out big blockbuster type of games, which will be on gamepass day 1 according to Microsoft.

is this one of the "war chest" differentiator thingys that MS can sustain but Sony not?

Betty · Sep 17, 2020

AgonyRon said:
Can you back that up with statistics or are you guessing it?

I'm going to guess a full priced game that sells millions at launch is more financially beneficial for Sony than someone subbing to a Game Pass type subscription on their service where the cost of the sub has to be spread among ALL the games.

But thanks to PLAYSTATION CEO JIM RYAN literally saying that VERY thing in this OP... I now know that to be the case.

I'm assuming he has looked at what will make more money and thus continue to allow them to produce the titles I adore so I'll take his word for it.

Deleted member 16876 · Sep 17, 2020

Cool. I don't care about game pass.

With that out of the way, the price being raised is some bullshit. I don't know if I can buy as many games with that price.

Jim Ryan: PlayStation about big blockbuster games that cost a lot to make, Game Pass model would not make financial sense

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