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That is a considered response to Jim Ryan's words. Gold star and help yourself to the sweet jar.
While that is typical console warrior nonsense. Off to the rubbish tip with you.
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Jim Ryan: "I think we’re more than a few minutes from the future of VR (...) Will it be this year? No. Will it be next year? No."
- Thread starter Lant_War
- Start date
That is a considered response to Jim Ryan's words. Gold star and help yourself to the sweet jar.
While that is typical console warrior nonsense. Off to the rubbish tip with you.
Doesn't sound good to be honest. Quite a change from their initial push for VR, where they made the most affordable headset. Now they are behind, by a very substantial margin and are going to let Facebook take a gigantic lead on this space. The technology on PSVR is ancient. I do hope they keep making content for it.
Sony have said several times over that they are working on new VR hardware, and are currently recruiting for a future VR headset.
That helps, but mostly when combined with the following:
I've been worried that the PSVR support might just be a PS4 BC mode thing due to the No Man's Sky news this morning. Hopefully they'll add PS5 PSVR support soon, base PS4 VR is extremely rough in that game.
If they didn't even add pro support I wonder if this might just be a question of resources and Hello Games deciding to focus on other elements.
Warring for what? I've got both systems pre-ordered and I'm staring at my PS5 accessories right now.
Anyway, it is not console warring if someone doesn't approve of Sony's recent (last couple of years) legacy software strategy, and Jim Ryan has been outspoken about that himself. So I naturally attribute these changes in strategy to Jim Ryan.
Should I be applauding Sony for getting rid of PS1, PS2, PS3 apps in their store? Or for not allowing me to play PS1 and PS2 games on PS5?
I'm talking about the commitment to block out your vision and ignore your surroundings. Whether that be blocking yourself off from your kid running around the house (the average gamer age is 34), snacking on food, speaking to others in your house, checking your phone etc. These things are unavoidable and ultimately a barrier to mass adoption.
I think VR will have it's place but it will never be your every gaming session device, it's simply impractical. Considering the biggest selling games are your annual sports series, ubisoft open world game or online shooter, only the latter really applies.
Actually interacting with your environment or using additional peripherals is another matter entirely.
The tech is fun but unless it's going to be 70-80% of your gaming, the cost for most will always be too high, even if it gets well below $200. Even at $150, that's the cost of 2 games, that still equates to at least a third of your average persons spend on over the course of a generation excluding a console purchase.
Yeah, that's... not correct. Sony has been happy with the sales, and on the day PSVR launched, Jim Ryan himself said they expected to sell hundreds of millions of units throughout 2016. They know exactly what kind of tame sales they were going to get.
One thing that is pretty clear is that eye-tracking is a bottleneck in R&D. It's a lot harder than initially thought, and that is the defining technology for next generation headsets.
VR/AR doesn't need to be $200 to take off, because not even smartphones or consoles were that cheap when they took off. It just needs to be refined and sold at a reasonable price point.
A lot of people in this thread really taking their own meanings from his words, lol. It doesn't sound at all like he's speaking about PSVR2, but VR in general as a mainstream device that becomes as prevalent as home consoles.
You're not going to need to commit to blocking out your vision in 5 years. Isolation will be fixed as VR/AR merge. IE: This without the greenscreen:
That's disappointing to read! Even though the VR experience on PC (when that update launched) wasn't too great..
Since it is Jim Ryan, we can take 'the future of VR' to mean PSVR2, he knows exactly what he is saying.
They could have sold double the headsets if PSVR wasn't so hamstrung by the PS camera and Move controllers.
They also didn't invest that much into games...I mean, besides Astrobot, their best VR exclusives are basic ports.
I do hope they keep R&D going though, their patents have looked promising and we're on the cusp of a lot of things that will significantly push the tech forward.
My guess is 2023-2024. By that time they'll figure out wireless at least and hopefully foveated rendering. If not that, hopefully a parallel to Nvidias dlss to apply to all VR games. Then they could easily push a 4k screen.
They also didn't invest that much into games...I mean, besides Astrobot, their best VR exclusives are basic ports.
I do hope they keep R&D going though, their patents have looked promising and we're on the cusp of a lot of things that will significantly push the tech forward.
My guess is 2023-2024. By that time they'll figure out wireless at least and hopefully foveated rendering. If not that, hopefully a parallel to Nvidias dlss to apply to all VR games. Then they could easily push a 4k screen.
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Oh yeah, an upgrade of the outdated move controllers would already be great. If PSVR2 happens I imagine the might get rid of the whole camera tracking
None of that is relevant to this discussion. You have willfully misconstrued Ryan's remarks on PSVR and now you are derailing the thread with PS5's lack of PS1-3 backward compatibility. Don't jump in with both feet and you will not have to hand wave so much.
It's pretty clear that the only reason they haven't come out with new controllers is so that they have a big selling point for PSVR2. It's like how they never added a right stick to the PSP just so that they'd have a selling point for Vita. It's a shame because the Moves hold PSVR back so much.
Maybe you should just report me and move on? I'm not willfully misconstruing anything.
I can bring up Sony's (in my opinion) failings, they are related to a thread about Jim Ryan.
I'm sorry if my comments about Sony's strategy have offended you.
The biggest reason I would've copped for PS5 at launch was if they had a big plan with VR up front. This is very disappointing, but not surprising as it definitely seemed more niche and probably took a backseat. We'll see what they have in store in the future.
That means "we will return to VR if we feel that it advanced enough to provide meaningful game content". i wouldn´t expect PSVR 2 anytime soon after that statement.
and somehow... he is right, as cool as VR is...it isn´t there yet and the "wow factor" wears off very fast.
and somehow... he is right, as cool as VR is...it isn´t there yet and the "wow factor" wears off very fast.
Eh, outside of Half Life: Alyx, I've much more enjoyed the VR ports like RE7 and Wipeout. I'd say PSVR has the best collection of VR games. The tracking isn't great I agree, but some games do it much better than others. I really liked Blood & Truth. For me the issues are less the controllers and tracking, and more so the clarity. If they just put out a higher resolution headset, I'd be happy. I hope they have more games that support the Aim controller because no other platform has something like it.
Not necessarily, the PSVR is already out and he's making the point that it's still not a mainstream device. The same could be said about the PSVR2 and the sales expectations they have for that. For all we know he could be talking about the PSVR3 and how they consider that will be the turning point for making VR mainstream.
They probably do have a big plan for VR for PS5 right now. They're just not going to talk about it until PSVR2 is ready to release. Honestly I think Astro's Playroom is a pack in launch game for a reason. I think it's there primarily to get Astro Bot faniliar to everyone so that when PSVR2 launches with Rescue Mission 2, it's going to be even more of a killer app to people.
All his moves since he took over seem to be taking a very traditional approach to console gaming:
1. Seemingly pulling back on VR
2. Not supporting legacy games
3. No cross-gen peripheral support
4. Little cross-gen game support (this seems to be getting better, though)
On the other hand, they are sticking to their strengths and focusing on stuff that helped them succeed this past generation. So for the brand, it's not necessarily a bad thing.
I deliberately didn't mention AR, I think that has a lot of future. VR not so much IMO (for gaming purposes) and while VR/AR merge tech certainly has value, games that don't have AR integrated and you need to flick a switch to view your surroundings while likely using headphones still pose a major issue that cannot truly be solved. The value of VR is immersion, it can also be a crippling flaw.
As I said, it will have a place but it's unlikely to be the primary output for gaming so it instantly relegates it to the optional spend column, something that even upgrading your TV can be a major ordeal for many households.
It's fantastic if you lock yourself away in a room and don't care about interruptions, unfortunately much of the console market chooses consoles because they prefer to sit on the couch and interact with others. The convenience is gone with VR.
I'm not offended by your nonsense. I merely wanted to correct it. Your first comment speaks volumes. If you insist on derailing the thread, go right ahead.
Maybe, but I think its more that PSVR would be bottlenecked regardless. If they added better controllers it would still have to use the camera, which just doesn't have good tracking. So it would be too much of an investment to upgrade any single part of PSVR at this point.
This would be so cool. Even though I didn't own PSVR1 this gen, I would cop for PSVR2 day one after experiencing VR within the last year and LOVING it. Hoping what you say is going to come to fruition!
As a former Kinect lover and who adored Kinect-supported titles, I would be thrilled with VR support on console and getting new experiences that way.
100% agree. Still cant believe how many people think this is just 'minutes' away from breaking into the mainstream. Happy to be wrong tho
Sony has said more than once that the PSVR surpassed their expectations and that VR is very important for them.
lol
You took his comments to mean he doesn't believe in VR, which is absolutely just you console warring.
He says, specifically "VR will represent a meaningful component of interactive entertainment" and then goes on to say "we believe in VR". He is literally just saying that the evolution of the platform is a few years away, at least, and that they have no immediate plans to iterate on the PSVR until the hardware and technology has advanced enough for it to be a mainstream device that is synonymous with console gaming (as in more than a niche device that fewer than 6 million people own). A lot of this falls on pricing, and technology (right now the technology has limitations which also limit the user base, because of motion sickness, etc).
It is absolutely absurd to believe they're giving up on VR (as you suggested earlier in the thread) when they've already been pushing out patents for new VR technology, and have clear working prototypes of said patents (there are videos, yay!). They are still investing in the platform.
Again, he is speaking to the evolution of the technology and its viability to be affordable and mainstream. Right now a lot of that tech is in its infancy (foveated rendering, improved hand and finger tracking, inside out tracking, etc). In 2-3 years, it will be at a price point that Sony can work with and push out.
So yea, a lot of people here are taking his words and shaping them into something they aren't. This isn't doom and gloom for PSVR2, it's simply a realistic and honest approach, saying "we believe in the platform, but at this moment there are no announcements for an iteration on PSVR. Expect it in the future".
True. As a shareholder I'd be confident, but as a gamer I'm disappointed.
Long-term these investments in more risky endeavors like PSVR and supporting a legacy library that can strengthen the brand but not necessarily drive revenue can be meaningful though.
I don't get the console warring angle. I'm a Index and PSVR owner and love VR - reading this interview I am disappointed that we're looking at a few years before PSVR2 gets teased.
All signs pointed to hearing about PSVR2 a lot sooner than that, so I'm reading into this a shift in strategy. How is this console warring?
This has been pretty clear to me. Jim just doesn't care about things that aren't going to show up in the next quarterly earnings.
I mean, several years away is "more than a few minutes" lol.
Maybe your intent isn't console warring, however, you are very much making statements that don't hold water. This isn't a doom and gloom message for PSVR2. It's just a very general statement that the evolution of VR (both as a whole, and their own platform) is still a few years away. The PS4 has been around since 2013. Seven years. It didn't get PSVR until it was 3 years into its life cycle, and the technology they used was dated when it came out.
PSVR2 is going to be treated differently, but dollars to dimes, it's coming. There is nothing to be concerned about. They have their goals and ambitions for the technology, and in 2-3 years time, I'm sure we'll hear all about it.
Correct me if I'm wrong but how will the major hurdles be dealt with? mainly the space requirement and physical activity required to truly enjoy VR to its fullest. There are wireless headsets which is great and accessibility modes but the best experience demands a commitment the mainstream will have a hard time adjusting to.
Well put. I think we all realize this is the most risk-averse and financially rewarding approach, though in terms of forwarding VR as a platform, it kind of hurts gamers who care about that. Stockholders are definitely happy, as you mention.
That said, as others have commented, they could just be working on PSVR2 even longer. Though in my opinion, I would've thought having it at launch would've guaranteed its success the most.
This might be controversial but he's absolutely right. Make PSVR2 when you feel like you can make a product that is good and cheap enough to be successful in the mass market, VR games do not take 3 years to make anyway. First step is it being cheaper than 399, and we are getting there.
You're not going to just toggle a switch. As that post shows, you can be in VR while having the real world pop into the headset. This will be system level available at any point in your headset, and most headsets are designed with off-ear headphones these days and that works for even uncompromised sound as shown with Index.
You're also forgetting about a multitude of things:
- Party games and asymmetrical games that encourage local play.
- Casting to the TV.
- Social VR across multiple headsets encouraging families to buy individual headsets.
- Virtual screens to replace physical setups if wanted at least as comfort/resolution get better.
- VR's many other uses that will encourage gamers to buy and use headsets.
Things aren't nearly as bleak as you believe they are. Quite the contrary really.
Sony is the only platform supporting Virtual Reality in the console space, for modest return. That's the opposite of not caring. Ryan is also being honest about the future. VR has some ways to go, yet they continue to believe in its fantastic potential.
I mean, his comments here doesn't mean they're pulling back on VR, they're making an adaptor free so you can play PSVR games on their new console. They partnered with IO Interactive to make Hitman 1-3 VR capable. In August, they had a state of play that showcased VR games.
Not supporting legacy games was a decision made long before he became the ceo of PlayStation.
There is cross gen peripheral support, just not as expansive as Xbox's.
