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Nola

Member
Oct 29, 2017
8,049
"Based on the evidence we have".
We dont have any evidence lol
You are making a lot of assumptions and throwing them around as facts when in reality who has evidences, who has the data...is Sony.
You talk about faulty metrics from Sony and use MC user score as "evidence" lol
"Current state of positivity around the franchise" cmon if it wasnt for Jeff's statements yesterday nobody would be even talking about DG lol
We do have evidence, from the developers that were told by Sony why their games were cancelled, and the developers that work under Sonys new strategy.

ive already posted this twice now:
The team's failure highlights the complex hierarchy of video game development and in particular, Sony's conservative approach to making games for the PlayStation 5. The Japanese conglomerate owns about a dozen studios across the world as part of its PlayStation Studios label, but in recent years it has prioritized games made by its most successful developers. Studios such as Santa Monica, California-based Naughty Dog and Amsterdam-based Guerrilla Games spend tens of millions of dollars to make games with the expectation that the investments will pay off exponentially.
Sony's focus on exclusive blockbusters has come at the expense of niche teams and studios within the PlayStation organization, leading to high turnover and less choice for players. Last week, Sony reorganized a development office in Japan, resulting in mass departures of people who worked on less well-known but acclaimed games such as Gravity Rush and Everybody's Golf. The company has informed developers that it no longer wants to produce smaller games that are only successful in Japan, Bloomberg has reported.
This fixation on teams that churn out hits is creating unrest across Sony's portfolio of game studios. Oregon-based Sony Bend, best known for the 2019 open-world action game Days Gone, tried unsuccessfully to pitch a sequel that year, according to people familiar with the proposal. Although the first game had been profitable, its development had been lengthy and critical reception was mixed, so a Days Gone 2 wasn't seen as a viable option.
Instead, one team at the studio was assigned to help Naughty Dog with a multiplayer game while a second group was assigned to work on a new Uncharted game with supervision from Naughty Dog. Some staff, including top leads, were unhappy with this arrangement and left. Bend's developers feared they might be absorbed into Naughty Dog, and the studio's leadership asked to be taken off the Uncharted project. They got their wish last month and are now working on a new game of their own that will be part of a brand new franchise.
www.bloomberg.com

Sony’s Obsession With Blockbusters Is Stirring Unrest Within PlayStation Empire

A small team had big ambitions for a Last of Us remake, but Sony handed the work to star studio Naughty Dog.

Combine that with first hand accounts from Bend and other reports posted in this thread about Sony heavily reliant on Metacritic and initial sales to dictate decision-making, and nothing I said is unsubstantiated by the evidence we have.

Sony made their decision on Days Gone's future very soon after release and cited Metacritic and initial sales as their reasoning for concluding poor expected future brand performance, so, in keeping with the blockbuster strategy, they moved them to tentpole franchises to help out. That reasoning, however, proved to be faulty given the word of mouth ended up endearing the brand and the sales reached 10 million
 
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LAA

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,335
Interesting about the sales and sad they felt management considered it a failure despite that.
That sad, I did always feel Days Gone felt a step below other major Sony exclusives in terms of quality and even design, there were a bunch of strange design decisions. It had a bunch of cool moments though and honestly not super interested if a sequel happens or not. Other than its annoying they ended it on a cliffhanger that may not get resolved. I wish that trend would end in gaming (and anything else media related), unless a sequel is alreasy Greenlit. Feels its only there to try and get a sequel to happen but doesn't always work.
 

Bold One

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
18,911
People seem intent on holding on to the narrative being spun by Bloomberg despite all evidence to the contrary.
 
Oct 25, 2017
9,409
It was a delusional rant, so it wasn't worth remembering. In the real world some games are slow burns, and you now have an audience for a potential sequel.

Apparently that's not good enough for Sony, which is pretty sad. Speaks volumes for the sad state of AAA gaming. At least on PlayStation.

If Days Gone was on any other platform, a sequel wouldn't be out of the question.

Like how we're just calling one of the directors of the game delusional now. We know the game could be found for 60% after 6 months on sale. I can see why they wouldn't be super confident in return customers for a sequel if sales only picked up once it dropped in price.

It's not like the studio got closed, some people in charge obviously got fired. People seem to gloss over the state of the game at launch and the fact that Bend put out nothing in the years since Golden Abyss in 2011.

Glad they're making something new, not really broken up Days Gone isn't getting a sequel. inFamous on the other hand...
 

iksenpets

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,495
Dallas, TX
Days Gone was pretty clearly always more successful than the general mood around it would suggest, but my guess would be that the actual revenue from Tsushima was significantly higher due to sale prices on Days Gone. And who knows what their respective budgets were. They appear to be similarly sized studios who had similar time frames between projects, so I would guess similar budgets, but possible one spent significantly more on outsourced products, or has higher pay for a good chunk of its employees?

Also, I would probably also venture that Sony cares more about their "prestige" branding than is maybe rational, and Days Gone's profits weren't enough to justify what they viewed as a reputational hit from its critical reception. There's always that fear of the sort of Assassin's Creed Unity effect, where your first bad game (bad is hyperbolic in the case of Days Gone) sells fine, but weighs on sales of future releases regardless of their quality. They probably have little doubt hey can get similar sales out of another new IP from Bend, so they just sweep Days Gone under the rug and tell them to take another shot, with more of an eye to critic tastes.
 

Paquete_PT

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
5,331
I don't think the problem for Sony was how much it sold but rather the critical perception. And I also don't think Days Gone sold well on its sole merit. It was an open-world zombie game published by Sony, afterall. Not to be too snobby but I do think playstation values the quality of their first party output above all else (and Microsoft is going down that path as well). Days gone was generic in every way and was, at launch, in the poorest state I've ever seen a Sony first-party game launch in. The pitch for the sequel probably wasn't that great either. It's okay, the studio is still kicking and I have high hopes that they can find something better witg their next project.
 

fourfourfun

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,683
England
Days Gone always felt like one of the Sony B-tier, like Infamous, and it feels like Sony have very little time for B-tier any more. Which is a shame, as that B-tier is what helped turn the PS3 around in the end - a continual stream of platform exclusive titles that latecomers to the platform were showered in when PSN+ dropped.
 
Oct 27, 2017
20,761
That's bs, I loved that game. 8M+ Even if most of that came on discount sales, should warrant a sequel. Wish we could see it on ps5
 

RisingStar

Banned
Oct 8, 2019
4,849
It's insanity how this thread and topic has this much traction for an average game like Days Gone. It's not even like Bend is closed and are working on a new IP. I thought that's what people want to see more of, not another derivative zombie open world game?
 

Fafalada

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,066
It's insanity how this thread and topic has this much traction for an average game like Days Gone. It's not even like Bend is closed and are working on a new IP. I thought that's what people want to see more of, not another derivative zombie open world game?
Yea I actually find it refreshing that company decisions aren't based solely off of $ sales amount. Also the whole 'but my sequels' is painful to listen to, especially a month after Matrix 4 came out.
 

CarterTax

Member
Oct 25, 2017
709
Having played Days Gone after it was all patched up on PS5 I can't say that I don't agree with it being a disappointment. The game overall was very unremarkable and didn't fall anywhere in Shawn's "First, Best, Must" strategy. Sure it may have ended up selling 8M copies but the lack of context (ASP, Internal milestones, etc) means that the comparison lacks any weight. I'm sure it has to be difficult to see something you work on not viewed highly by your employer but the game has a 71 critic review aggregate on Metacritic. It just was not a game that needed a sequel in the hopes that it did better. With a review score that low, there's no reason to believe that you could convert purchasers of the first game into purchasers of the potential sequel. The game was likely successful financially to a certain degree, but no sense in building a potential franchise around such an unremarkable game. Makes more sense to send the studio back to work on a new IP and maybe that will be received better.

On another note, the posturing around this game is so strange. It seems like the story of the sequel not being greenlit has somehow established this narrative that this game somehow needed and deserved a sequel, which makes no sense as the story was well contained within one game, and the overall setting, characters, gameplay, plot are all well-treaded roads. Nothing of value was lost with this game not getting a sequel.
 

Nola

Member
Oct 29, 2017
8,049
At this point you are being obtuse on porpuse so im not going to lose more time here, like i said, the greenlight a new ip instead of sequele so that is prety risk move.

And Returnal AAA title, a rogue one no less, that is the very definition of risk.
Roughly 90% of their first party output last year and in the two years ahead are tentpole and blockbuster franchises. Show me where that is wrong?

Your are engaging in Freudian Projection. The only one being obtuse is you and your refusal to acknowledge the reality that is the new Sony first party.
www.resetera.com

Jeff Ross: Days Gone sold over 8 million on PS4,local studio management made us feel like it was a big disappointment [UP: more details in threadmark]

But that's only if you ignore mitigating factors, such as budget, expectation, profit, and sale price. If DG was as successful from a financial standpoint as Ghost, why would they knock it internally so much? I get that's what Ross seems to be asking here, but clearly there was some difference...

I asked a very simple question, list for me the releases in the past year and the two years going forward and explain to me why and how the conclusion we should draw shouldn't be they are overwhelmingly engaging in a tentpole/blockbuster first party strategy?

Again, it's working for them, and I personally mostly enjoy it, but this is bordering on gaslighting to say their clear strategy isn't
 

sazz

Member
Aug 3, 2020
3,681
London, UK
It's insanity how this thread and topic has this much traction for an average game like Days Gone. It's not even like Bend is closed and are working on a new IP. I thought that's what people want to see more of, not another derivative zombie open world game?
Honestly, I think I'm going crazy in this thread, people are calling Sony safe and risk-averse because they didn't approve a sequel for an open-world zombie game that sold 8 million, which is like the safest game that is possible to make. I'd take a new IP over a sequel most times so I'm really not sure what some of the outrage is about.
 

Chumunga64

Member
Jun 22, 2018
14,269
amazing reading posts ITT about how awful Sony is about this and how they treated Days Gone is a testament on how they'll homogenize their AAA games until they're all basically the same

...Days Gone being an open world zombie shooter with crafting elements
 

CabooseMSG

Member
Jun 27, 2020
2,191
User Warned - Platform Warring
We do have evidence, from the developers that were told by Sony why their games were cancelled, and the developers that work under Sonys new strategy.

ive already posted this twice now:
The team's failure highlights the complex hierarchy of video game development and in particular, Sony's conservative approach to making games for the PlayStation 5. The Japanese conglomerate owns about a dozen studios across the world as part of its PlayStation Studios label, but in recent years it has prioritized games made by its most successful developers. Studios such as Santa Monica, California-based Naughty Dog and Amsterdam-based Guerrilla Games spend tens of millions of dollars to make games with the expectation that the investments will pay off exponentially.
Sony's focus on exclusive blockbusters has come at the expense of niche teams and studios within the PlayStation organization, leading to high turnover and less choice for players. Last week, Sony reorganized a development office in Japan, resulting in mass departures of people who worked on less well-known but acclaimed games such as Gravity Rush and Everybody's Golf. The company has informed developers that it no longer wants to produce smaller games that are only successful in Japan, Bloomberg has reported.
This fixation on teams that churn out hits is creating unrest across Sony's portfolio of game studios. Oregon-based Sony Bend, best known for the 2019 open-world action game Days Gone, tried unsuccessfully to pitch a sequel that year, according to people familiar with the proposal. Although the first game had been profitable, its development had been lengthy and critical reception was mixed, so a Days Gone 2 wasn't seen as a viable option.
Instead, one team at the studio was assigned to help Naughty Dog with a multiplayer game while a second group was assigned to work on a new Uncharted game with supervision from Naughty Dog. Some staff, including top leads, were unhappy with this arrangement and left. Bend's developers feared they might be absorbed into Naughty Dog, and the studio's leadership asked to be taken off the Uncharted project. They got their wish last month and are now working on a new game of their own that will be part of a brand new franchise.
www.bloomberg.com

Sony’s Obsession With Blockbusters Is Stirring Unrest Within PlayStation Empire

A small team had big ambitions for a Last of Us remake, but Sony handed the work to star studio Naughty Dog.

Combine that with first hand accounts from Bend and other reports posted in this thread about Sony heavily reliant on Metacritic and initial sales to dictate decision-making, and nothing I said is unsubstantiated by the evidence we have.

Sony made their decision on Days Gone's future very soon after release and cited Metacritic and initial sales as their reasoning for concluding poor expected future brand performance, so, in keeping with the blockbuster strategy, they moved them to tentpole franchises to help out. That reasoning, however, proved to be faulty given the word of mouth ended up endearing the brand and the sales reached 10 million
This is what its all about, these companies, as long as they are successful, should be allowed to make the games they want. Its pretty shitty to prohibit a successful game's sequel and force them to do something else, just because it didn't get enough GOTY nods or whatever. This is how you get all your companies making the same Oscar Bait, Third Person games, which is obviously Sony's MO given the recent output
 

Deleted member 64666

User requested account closure
Banned
Mar 20, 2020
1,051
amazing reading posts ITT about how awful Sony is about this and how they treated Days Gone is a testament on how they'll homogenize their AAA games until they're all basically the same

...Days Gone being an open world zombie shooter with crafting elements
Hahaha exactly what I thought. Days Gone is a very very very bland game. So are a lot of games nowadays.
 

Qwark

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,030
I mean we can go through 2021 as well:

- Spider Man mini sequel
- Ratchet and Clank Sequel
- Second party funded remake of highly established brand
- AA new IP
- FF7 Integrade money hat

I'm not sure this is disproving the thesis of Sony first party increasingly anchoring around a tentpole blockbuster strategy …A thesis that Sony development partners confirmed in the Bloomberg article I posted on the other page.
Brain burp, what is this second party funded remake you're talking about?
 

Dizastah

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,124
This is what its all about, these companies, as long as they are successful, should be allowed to make the games they want. Its pretty shitty to prohibit a successful game's sequel and force them to do something else, just because it didn't get enough GOTY nods or whatever. This is how you get all your companies making the same Oscar Bait, Third Person games, which is obviously Sony's MO given the recent output
thatsbait.jpg
 

Doomguy Fieri

Member
Nov 3, 2017
5,268
Media business 101 is that giant companies are not interested in anything that comfortably slides into profitability. If it costs $100 million to make and advertise and then returns $110 million, no one's happy. That $10 million doesn't tickle the shareholders, doesn't really fund the other operations, certainly doesn't get any leadership excited about doing it again but bigger. Profitable is the bare minimum that keeps the doors open.
 

Bioshocker

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,201
Sweden
The game never clicked with me, thought it was pretty boring. But it apparently did really well and the fans deserve a sequel.
 

Kodiak33

Member
Oct 30, 2017
207
I really liked it, especially the story. It took a second to get there for me but after that I was hooked.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,274
The "Oscar bait" games narrative is the dumbest fucking invention since "corridor racer." These threads bring out the most annoying trolls.
 
Aug 9, 2018
666
Fine, list for me the 2023 first party games as well.

To deny that Sony has not consistently gravitated toward an overwhelming tentpole/blockbuster strategy with their first party output is to deny reality.

again, it's working for them, but let's not pretend Sony is out there aggressively funding tons of risky new ventures and original AAA Ip's these days and that it is some co-equal strategic focus.
Then why are you admonishing Sony for not green lighting a sequel to Days Gone? It led to a new IP being funded or are you not giving them credit for green lighting a new IP?

They just funded Returnal, Cory Barlog is also working on a new IP, Naughty Dog's next main game is rumoured to be a new IP IIRC. Not to mention other studios that haven't announced what they are working on.

Heck, PSVR2 is one of the riskiest venture right now for them IMO.
 

Dennis8K

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
20,161
Going forward, we know that a game has to sell at least 8 million to avoid being a flop on ResetEra.
 
Oct 27, 2017
5,136
Horizon, Returnal, Last of Us, Spider Man, Uncharted, Ratchet and Clank. 90% of their output is Story focused, third-person games.
But how are all those games "the same Oscar Bait, Third Person games, which is obviously Sony's MO given the recent output"? And isn't Days Gone also a story-focused, third-person game?
I see the "Sad Dad" complaint has evolved into "Oscar Bait" now. lol
The poster also had "sad dad" in that sentence before editing it out.
 

Nola

Member
Oct 29, 2017
8,049
This is what its all about, these companies, as long as they are successful, should be allowed to make the games they want. Its pretty shitty to prohibit a successful game's sequel and force them to do something else, just because it didn't get enough GOTY nods or whatever. This is how you get all your companies making the same Oscar Bait, Third Person, which is obviously Sony's MO given the recent output
Yeah

My whole argument is that at a minimum it would be nice if Sony would shift to a strategy less reliant on unreliable indicators, because it's clearly a faulty strategy to put so much faith in shit like Metacritic and two month sales to make such enormous and consequential future investment decisions.

Especially when it seems like this hasty, faulty, zero sum process led to a lot of heartache, lost jobs, turnover, low morale, and emotional turmoil, all to ultimately put Bend in an equally or more risky situation that their hasty decision was seemingly made to avoid. Which is something that I don't see a lot of people reflexively defending Sony corporate acknowledging.

And tbh, I hope that giving Bend another shot at a big budget AAA IP is there way of somewhat acknowledging that the decision process they engaged in was unfair and a mistake.
 

CabooseMSG

Member
Jun 27, 2020
2,191
But how are all those games "the same Oscar Bait, Third Person games, which is obviously Sony's MO given the recent output"? And isn't Days Gone also a story-focused, third-person game?

The poster also had "sad dad" in that sentence before editing it out.
Did you experience Days Gone's story? That wasn't why people liked the game, and that's exactly why Sony didn't greenlight a sequel. I'd argue that's the exception that proves the rule.
 

stupei

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,801
Media business 101 is that giant companies are not interested in anything that comfortably slides into profitability. If it costs $100 million to make and advertise and then returns $110 million, no one's happy. That $10 million doesn't tickle the shareholders, doesn't really fund the other operations, certainly doesn't get any leadership excited about doing it again but bigger. Profitable is the bare minimum that keeps the doors open.

I genuinely think how hard it is to market as something unique was a problem for them from the beginning, but one they obviously didn't forsee. The fact that people kept comparing it to other properties makes it harder to give the game its own identity and branding. You even saw things in their E3 on stage demo with the zombies lowered in from the ceiling; it felt like they had no idea how to promote this game. It sold 8 million copies, but how much money did they put into marketing to try to compensate for it being viewed as "the same as" other properties? How much of that came from promoting it through deep discounts?
 

Nola

Member
Oct 29, 2017
8,049
Then why are you admonishing Sony for not green lighting a sequel to Days Gone? It led to a new IP being funded or are you not giving them credit for green lighting a new IP?

They just funded Returnal, Cory Barlog is also working on a new IP, Naughty Dog's next main game is rumoured to be a new IP IIRC. Not to mention other studios that haven't announced what they are working on.

Heck, PSVR2 is one of the riskiest venture right now for them IMO.
See my latest post for a response that answers this question
 
Jan 20, 2019
10,681
Roughly 90% of their first party output last year and in the two years ahead are tentpole and blockbuster franchises. Show me where that is wrong?

Your are engaging in Freudian Projection. The only one being obtuse is you and your refusal to acknowledge the reality that is the new Sony first party.
www.resetera.com

Jeff Ross: Days Gone sold over 8 million on PS4,local studio management made us feel like it was a big disappointment [UP: more details in threadmark]

But that's only if you ignore mitigating factors, such as budget, expectation, profit, and sale price. If DG was as successful from a financial standpoint as Ghost, why would they knock it internally so much? I get that's what Ross seems to be asking here, but clearly there was some difference...

I asked a very simple question, list for me the releases in the past year and the two years going forward and explain to me why and how the conclusion we should draw shouldn't be they are overwhelmingly engaging in a tentpole/blockbuster first party strategy?

Again, it's working for them, and I personally mostly enjoy it, but this is bordering on gaslighting to say their clear strategy isn't

You are wrong on saiing that is the only thing the do and they dont make any risk games, but you know that, i already point that to you but you keep ignoring it.

Your simple question was already answer to many times, so either move over or stop saying the same wrong thing over and over again.
 

Rick44-4

Member
Oct 8, 2020
1,319
its crazy how different the narratives can be depending on the situation. "Who cares what the critics think as long as it makes money?" But also "Why the fuck is Rockstar prioritizing GTA Online over SP games?!?"
It's funny isn't it, this place can be so weird sometimes but that's the case with lots of different people with different opinions.
 

Rosebud

Two Pieces
Member
Apr 16, 2018
43,592
Are we disputing that Sony is(or was at the time of this decisions) heavily reliant on initial financial success and/or Metacritic aggregators?

Because all evidence says that is the case

Every big publisher is at least heavily reliant on financial success, it doesn't mean they don't take risks. An AAA new IP is a bigger risk than a Days Gone 2.

Horizon, Returnal, Last of Us, Spider Man, Uncharted, Ratchet and Clank, God of War. The majority of their output is Story focused, third person games.

Having a decent story doesn't mean it's the main focus of the game. From those only TLOU and GOW have huge discussions about story, and both have amazing gameplay on top.

Plus you're ignoring all their other games to make a point lol (Sackboy, Astro Bot, Demon's Souls, GT, everything VR...)
 
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Pyroblazer

Member
Oct 30, 2017
547
Days Gone currently sits at 84 on Metacritic user reviews and has a sustained "very positive" aggregate on Steam, same as Horizon and Death Stranding.

Furthermore, as has been pointed out, Sony had no working knowledge of future events when they made their decisions. They based their decision on initial critical reviews and initial sales and drew assumptions leading to the conclusion the brand was too toxic to the Sony brand and to build a tentpole around.

Those assumptions were unequivocally incorrect. Considering the positive word of mouth and current resting state of positivity around the franchise and the 10 million in sales.

Coming up with post hoc rationalizations and defenses to defend their decisions says to me the subconscious goal is pointing at being more about defending Sony than assessing their actual decision-making process in an objective manner. Based on the evidence we have, Sony made an incorrect predictive forecast based on a heavily reliance on faulty metrics and the result is the team is now ironically in the very situation that cancellation was justified to seemingly try and avoid.

I don't think user reviews are a good barometer for anything. Way too many stories about them beeing influenced by some agendas. Racist People hating a game, people voting for a game in spite of another or because they thought it was unfairly treated etc...
I lost any trust in those and don't look at them anymore, because I saw so many games who just received 1/10 or 10/10 scores without even explaining why this score was given or a media product already having 1000s of reviews despite not even beeing released to the wide public. Also I think most people who vote there often do it to either hate or push the score. As someone who thought the game was just average, I don't really have any interest to score there or to express my opinion about these game in any way.

I just disagree with your notion that the general word of mouth for Days Gone is positive, I think it is rather mixed. There are obviously people who liked the game and that is completely fine, but I think there is also a big amount of people who just didn't really care all that much but like mentioned above don't have any interest to express that opinion because they probably already forgot about the game. That's why polls with 1000s of people in threads often point a different picture than comments in threads like "Game XYZ is overrated, Game XYZ is amazing and critics are wrong etc.."
Let's be honest if it wasn't for Ross comments we wouldn't talk about Days Gone today either.

You and me both neither know what the sales potential of Days Gone 2 exactly is. Good sales of the first game aren't a good indicator alone for me. We saw first games, that are considered bad, selling well and then the sequel paid the price for it. Watch Dogs 1 to 2 or AC Unity to Syndicate come to mind, where the often regarded better sequels saw a decline in sales because the first game burned a lot of people. A lot of people like me tried Days Gone out, especially when it was on sale, because Playstation's first party titles in general created a reputation of usually quality titles, so I wanted to see if there is more to the game, but then realized nope it's nowhere near the level of their usual offerings. There are probably a lot more people like that, who are likely to skip a potential Days Gone 2.

I don't have any need to defend Sony. They are a multibillion company and not my friends. But I don't think they just make decisions like that without doing their own research and considering many factors. If you only look at the sales numbers the decision might be odd, if you look at other mentioned factors it doesn't look that odd to me anymore.

We do have evidence, from the developers that were told by Sony why their games were cancelled, and the developers that work under Sonys new strategy.

ive already posted this twice now:
The team's failure highlights the complex hierarchy of video game development and in particular, Sony's conservative approach to making games for the PlayStation 5. The Japanese conglomerate owns about a dozen studios across the world as part of its PlayStation Studios label, but in recent years it has prioritized games made by its most successful developers. Studios such as Santa Monica, California-based Naughty Dog and Amsterdam-based Guerrilla Games spend tens of millions of dollars to make games with the expectation that the investments will pay off exponentially.
Sony's focus on exclusive blockbusters has come at the expense of niche teams and studios within the PlayStation organization, leading to high turnover and less choice for players. Last week, Sony reorganized a development office in Japan, resulting in mass departures of people who worked on less well-known but acclaimed games such as Gravity Rush and Everybody's Golf. The company has informed developers that it no longer wants to produce smaller games that are only successful in Japan, Bloomberg has reported.
This fixation on teams that churn out hits is creating unrest across Sony's portfolio of game studios. Oregon-based Sony Bend, best known for the 2019 open-world action game Days Gone, tried unsuccessfully to pitch a sequel that year, according to people familiar with the proposal. Although the first game had been profitable, its development had been lengthy and critical reception was mixed, so a Days Gone 2 wasn't seen as a viable option.
Instead, one team at the studio was assigned to help Naughty Dog with a multiplayer game while a second group was assigned to work on a new Uncharted game with supervision from Naughty Dog. Some staff, including top leads, were unhappy with this arrangement and left. Bend's developers feared they might be absorbed into Naughty Dog, and the studio's leadership asked to be taken off the Uncharted project. They got their wish last month and are now working on a new game of their own that will be part of a brand new franchise.
www.bloomberg.com

Sony’s Obsession With Blockbusters Is Stirring Unrest Within PlayStation Empire

A small team had big ambitions for a Last of Us remake, but Sony handed the work to star studio Naughty Dog.

Combine that with first hand accounts from Bend and other reports posted in this thread about Sony heavily reliant on Metacritic and initial sales to dictate decision-making, and nothing I said is unsubstantiated by the evidence we have.

Sony made their decision on Days Gone's future very soon after release and cited Metacritic and initial sales as their reasoning for concluding poor expected future brand performance, so, in keeping with the blockbuster strategy, they moved them to tentpole franchises to help out. That reasoning, however, proved to be faulty given the word of mouth ended up endearing the brand and the sales reached 10 million

I don't think you are doing yourself a favor to point to the Bloomberg article as "evidence".
The article was heavily criticised from many people back then in the specific thread. I myself wrote a very long, detailled post why I thought the article was very flawed and one of Jason's weakest works. In short summary I thought Jason took 2 little stories and blow it completely out of proportion including a very misleading and click-baity headline. Completely normal stuff like "Naughty Dog beeing involved in a remake of their own big IP" or "Studios supporting other projects while they are not working on their next big game" were somehow used to create a misleading story of Sony just doing the same blockbusters all over again.
It's also only one side of the coin. We don't know the other side and we most likely will never know. We for example don't know if everyone at Bend wanted to work on Days Gone 2 that desperately after Ross and Garvin left.
In fact Ross and Garvin's interviews with Jaffe kind of suggested that there was a bit of a split within Bends's team between the old guard and newer devs.
Maybe it's just me but some of their comments sound a little bit like "old man yells at clouds" to me in the way they complained about the newer generation of devs and how they felt out of place. And that they go to Jaffe to talk about it kind of gives me the same feeling. Because there is no one better at "yelling at clouds" than David Jaffe himself, who comes across very bitter and childish because he isn't relevant and Playstation doesn't want anything to do with him anymore. I for myself don't think Bend set the world on fire in the last few years, so I think a fresh start and a new team working on a new IP is actually something to be excited for and I hope they are doing well.

What we know is that Sony did greenlight a new IP for Sony Bend instread of a sequel to a rather generic Days Gone, which sold well, which is actually the opposite of risk-averse for me, isn't it?
We also know Sony is supporting new titles by Media Molecule, PixelOpus or Asobi. They are financing the next, experimential game from Jade Raymond's new studio alongside other partnerships. They supported a game like Returnal and even bought Housemarque, who aren't known for AAA blockbusters either. They are launching a new VR headset next year which will come with many, interesting and cool "experiences" too. So this whole notion of Sony doing only blockbusters is a bit played out for me.
Are blockbusters important to their strategy? Yes without a doubt. Are they only doing blockbusters and nothing else? No definitely not.
 
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Nola

Member
Oct 29, 2017
8,049
You are wrong on saiing that is the only thing the do and they dont make any risk games, but you know that, i already point that to you but you keep ignoring it.

Your simple question was already answer to many times, so either move over or stop saying the same wrong thing over and over again.
I didn't say it is the only thing they do, I said it is increasingly the overwhelming focus of their first party output, and that is true. Again, we can pull up the receipts, read the Bloomberg article. Even the new IP investments they are making are heavily skewed toward building off highly popular established brands such as Wolverine and the rumored marvel multiplayer game and the additional marvel game by the former Uncharted creative director. I mean Insomniac for instance, has gone from a studio that heavily invested in new IP's and Ratchet as their tentpole, to Ratchet and being a Marvel factory.

No one is saying they will never ever green light another new risky IP, I mean we are literally in a thread where the developer is being allowed to do just that, but the overarching focus of Sony first party is undeniable. For better or worse. No matter how many times you attempt to gaslight that reality
 

jaymzi

Member
Jul 22, 2019
6,546
I see we are into the "all Sony games are the same because they are third person games that win awards" part of the topic now.
 

JoeNut

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,482
UK
It launched bad but once they tweaked a few things with patches it really became a fun game and I enjoyed my time with it, it'd be great to have a sequel
 

2Blackcats

Member
Oct 26, 2017
16,073
The sales numbers of these first party games aren't as important as how they're perceived by the public. They're about selling consoles.

Unfortunately the public shat on Days Gone from the very get go 'til after release.

That's no excuse for that management being a dick though.

Fwiw I preferred Days Gone to Ghost of Tsushima.
 

nonoriri

Member
Apr 30, 2020
4,240
It's also only one side of the coin. We don't know the other side and we most likely will never know. We for example don't know if everyone at Bend wanted to work on Days Gone 2 that desperately after Ross and Garvin left.
In fact Ross and Garvin's interviews with Jaffe kind of suggested that there was a bit of a split within Bends's team between the old guard and newer devs.
Maybe it's just me but some of their comments sound a little bit like "old man yells at clouds" to me in the way they complained about the newer generation of devs and how they felt out of place. And that they go to Jaffe to talk about it kind of gives me the same feeling. Because there is no one better at "yelling at clouds" than David Jaffe himself, who comes across very bitter and childish because he isn't relevant and Playstation doesn't want anything to do with him anymore. I for myself don't think Bend set the world on fire in the last few years, so I think a fresh start and a new team working on a new IP is actually something to be excited for and I hope they are doing well.
Didn't one of them expressly mention that he had anger issues and Sony tried to offer him management coaching many times? Because I do remember someone talking about culture conflict between the heads of studio and the developers/other people working at Bend. Maybe a factor was that Sony felt like the brand was also not particularly motivating internally or maybe even demoralizing, especially with it's original leaders having left and no one really there to lead the project.