Jeff Minter still haven't made a penny from 'Polybius' on PS4/PSVR (update: admin error, has actually made money)

[Epilexia]

Without Jeff Minter I would not have become a game developer.

So there would have been no Burnout, no Burnout 2 Point of Impact, no Burnout 3 Takedown, no Burnout Revenge, no BLACK, no Burnout Paradise, no Dangerous Golf, no Lethal VR, no Danger Zone, no Danger Zone 2!

They never would have happened because I would have ended up, to paraphrase Jeff "as a breadhead" or worse "buying, selling or processing something" (thanks Lloyd!)

I own nearly all of this early VIC-20 titles on cassette. And I've still got them!

The first game I ever played on what I was told was a "VIC-64" was Jeff's "Attack of the Mutant Camels' - (and the first game I ever saw boot on a 1541 drive to boot)

At the early computer fairs and exhibitions in the UK in the 80's the Llamasoft stand was always a hive of activity.

Unlike a lot of other famous coders, Jeff always made time to be around and talk to his fans. (He signed my mate Ozzy's copy of "Iridis Alpha." with 'have a zarjaz blast!")

Jeff countless inspired many other people to become interested in microcomputers, coin-ops and gaming. Jeff also wrote and circulated his own newsletter to fans in the 80's. He was one of the few people writing about what was happening in the arcade scene. It was because of him I learned about games like "OutRun" and "Space Harrier.' It was Jeff who told me how good the GameBoy was, what the PC Engine was like, and what the Sega Megadrive was. There was no internet back then, and only C+VG featured coverage of arcade games. Quality information was scarce.

If I'd never gone out seeking an 'OutRun' machine then there definitely would never have been a Burnout game.

His work has been nothing but unique and original. He's always tried new things on new hardware. He's taken more risks than most developers will ever do in a lifetime. The only 'herd' he has ever chased has been his own.

He continues to do so today. He's an independent developer and he's still going. Still making games. And arguably doing his best work right now.

As a self funded independent developer myself I know first hand how hard it can be to both develop and publish games across multiple platforms and multiple digital stores.

The fact that he has still not yet been recognised by either the DICE Awards, BAFTA in the UK or The Game Awards is saddening.

(I hope that Richard, Harvey or Geoff will rectify this someday soon.)

The industry needs more developers like Jeff.

I can only hope that threads like this one will help gamers to take time to discover his work and join me in celebrating a truly unique and visionary gaming talent.

Click to shrink...

Great reading and such a beautiful love letter to Jeff Minter's legacy, you made my day!

You should be proud of your work, because I consider the original 'Burnout' trilogy as one of the greatest achievements in arcade design, so good as many of the classics that you are referencing.

And I was really excited when all of you started a new small studio, to continue making small arcade games faithful to the spirit of your early work.

 

[Napalmjam]

Without Jeff Minter I would not have become a game developer.

So there would have been no Burnout, no Burnout 2 Point of Impact, no Burnout 3 Takedown, no Burnout Revenge, no BLACK, no Burnout Paradise, no Dangerous Golf, no Lethal VR, no Danger Zone, no Danger Zone 2!

They never would have happened because I would have ended up, to paraphrase Jeff "as a breadhead" or worse "buying, selling or processing something" (thanks Lloyd!)

I own nearly all of this early VIC-20 titles on cassette. And I've still got them!

The first game I ever played on what I was told was a "VIC-64" was Jeff's "Attack of the Mutant Camels' - (and the first game I ever saw boot on a 1541 drive to boot)

At the early computer fairs and exhibitions in the UK in the 80's the Llamasoft stand was always a hive of activity.

Unlike a lot of other famous coders, Jeff always made time to be around and talk to his fans. (He signed my mate Ozzy's copy of "Iridis Alpha." with 'have a zarjaz blast!")

Jeff countless inspired many other people to become interested in microcomputers, coin-ops and gaming. Jeff also wrote and circulated his own newsletter to fans in the 80's. He was one of the few people writing about what was happening in the arcade scene. It was because of him I learned about games like "OutRun" and "Space Harrier.' It was Jeff who told me how good the GameBoy was, what the PC Engine was like, and what the Sega Megadrive was. There was no internet back then, and only C+VG featured coverage of arcade games. Quality information was scarce.

If I'd never gone out seeking an 'OutRun' machine then there definitely would never have been a Burnout game.

His work has been nothing but unique and original. He's always tried new things on new hardware. He's taken more risks than most developers will ever do in a lifetime. The only 'herd' he has ever chased has been his own.

He continues to do so today. He's an independent developer and he's still going. Still making games. And arguably doing his best work right now.

As a self funded independent developer myself I know first hand how hard it can be to both develop and publish games across multiple platforms and multiple digital stores.

The fact that he has still not yet been recognised by either the DICE Awards, BAFTA in the UK or The Game Awards is saddening.

(I hope that Richard, Harvey or Geoff will rectify this someday soon.)

The industry needs more developers like Jeff.

I can only hope that threads like this one will help gamers to take time to discover his work and join me in celebrating a truly unique and visionary gaming talent.

Click to shrink...

Wait... danger zone 2?!

 

[Agent X]

Does it work without VR? The PSN doesn't do a good job of telling you which VR games don't need VR. I will never by a VR headset but would love to play this.

Click to shrink...

Yes, as I and others have pointed out earlier, this game is completely playable without VR.

Honestly, he's a bit of a two-trick pony. He practically invented the music visualizer and makes games based on the Tempest formula. But what he does, he does really-really well, at least. So I can't really fault him.

Click to shrink...

Polybius really doesn't play that much like Tempest, though. It's in the same genre, but it plays closer to games like N2O: Nitrous Oxide, Nanotek Warrior, and S.T.U.N. Runner than it does to Tempest.

Sure, like PS Now. Would seem like a great idea to get something like Polybius up on the service and (hopefully) earning some cash.

I'd be worried about playing a twitchy fast arcade game like Polybius over a streaming service though. I've definitely enjoyed some titles on PS Now (even some of the retro stuff like the Sega Legacy games!) but it's definitely not lag free.

Click to shrink...

I agree. I enjoy using PlayStation Now, but Polybius might not be the ideal game for that type of streaming service. It relies a lot on quick, precise inputs, like most shoot-em-up games do. Combine that with the challenging difficulty curve, and the game would become very frustrating.

A downloadable demo of the first 4 or 5 levels would give a significant impression.

 

[MrCunningham]

Polybius really doesn't play that much like Tempest, though. It's in the same genre, but it plays closer to games like N2O: Nitrous Oxide, Nanotek Warrior, and S.T.U.N. Runner than it does to Tempest.

Click to shrink...

To be honest, I haven't played Polybious because I do not own a PS4 or PS4 Pro. It kinda looked like another Tempest based game to me. But that is pretty awesome if it is a STUN Runner clone.

 

[apocat]

Without Jeff Minter I would not have become a game developer.

So there would have been no Burnout, no Burnout 2 Point of Impact, no Burnout 3 Takedown, no Burnout Revenge, no BLACK, no Burnout Paradise, no Dangerous Golf, no Lethal VR, no Danger Zone, no Danger Zone 2!

They never would have happened because I would have ended up, to paraphrase Jeff "as a breadhead" or worse "buying, selling or processing something" (thanks Lloyd!)

I own nearly all of this early VIC-20 titles on cassette. And I've still got them!

The first game I ever played on what I was told was a "VIC-64" was Jeff's "Attack of the Mutant Camels' - (and the first game I ever saw boot on a 1541 drive to boot)

At the early computer fairs and exhibitions in the UK in the 80's the Llamasoft stand was always a hive of activity.

Unlike a lot of other famous coders, Jeff always made time to be around and talk to his fans. (He signed my mate Ozzy's copy of "Iridis Alpha." with 'have a zarjaz blast!")

Jeff countless inspired many other people to become interested in microcomputers, coin-ops and gaming. Jeff also wrote and circulated his own newsletter to fans in the 80's. He was one of the few people writing about what was happening in the arcade scene. It was because of him I learned about games like "OutRun" and "Space Harrier.' It was Jeff who told me how good the GameBoy was, what the PC Engine was like, and what the Sega Megadrive was. There was no internet back then, and only C+VG featured coverage of arcade games. Quality information was scarce.

If I'd never gone out seeking an 'OutRun' machine then there definitely would never have been a Burnout game.

His work has been nothing but unique and original. He's always tried new things on new hardware. He's taken more risks than most developers will ever do in a lifetime. The only 'herd' he has ever chased has been his own.

He continues to do so today. He's an independent developer and he's still going. Still making games. And arguably doing his best work right now.

As a self funded independent developer myself I know first hand how hard it can be to both develop and publish games across multiple platforms and multiple digital stores.

The fact that he has still not yet been recognised by either the DICE Awards, BAFTA in the UK or The Game Awards is saddening.

(I hope that Richard, Harvey or Geoff will rectify this someday soon.)

The industry needs more developers like Jeff.

I can only hope that threads like this one will help gamers to take time to discover his work and join me in celebrating a truly unique and visionary gaming talent.

Click to shrink...

Awsome post, thanks for sharing, and thanks for all those wonderful hours I spent playing crash mode in Burnout 3.

 

[Kaako]

Without Jeff Minter I would not have become a game developer.

So there would have been no Burnout, no Burnout 2 Point of Impact, no Burnout 3 Takedown, no Burnout Revenge, no BLACK, no Burnout Paradise, no Dangerous Golf, no Lethal VR, no Danger Zone, no Danger Zone 2!

They never would have happened because I would have ended up, to paraphrase Jeff "as a breadhead" or worse "buying, selling or processing something" (thanks Lloyd!)

I own nearly all of this early VIC-20 titles on cassette. And I've still got them!

The first game I ever played on what I was told was a "VIC-64" was Jeff's "Attack of the Mutant Camels' - (and the first game I ever saw boot on a 1541 drive to boot)

At the early computer fairs and exhibitions in the UK in the 80's the Llamasoft stand was always a hive of activity.

Unlike a lot of other famous coders, Jeff always made time to be around and talk to his fans. (He signed my mate Ozzy's copy of "Iridis Alpha." with 'have a zarjaz blast!")

Jeff countless inspired many other people to become interested in microcomputers, coin-ops and gaming. Jeff also wrote and circulated his own newsletter to fans in the 80's. He was one of the few people writing about what was happening in the arcade scene. It was because of him I learned about games like "OutRun" and "Space Harrier.' It was Jeff who told me how good the GameBoy was, what the PC Engine was like, and what the Sega Megadrive was. There was no internet back then, and only C+VG featured coverage of arcade games. Quality information was scarce.

If I'd never gone out seeking an 'OutRun' machine then there definitely would never have been a Burnout game.

His work has been nothing but unique and original. He's always tried new things on new hardware. He's taken more risks than most developers will ever do in a lifetime. The only 'herd' he has ever chased has been his own.

He continues to do so today. He's an independent developer and he's still going. Still making games. And arguably doing his best work right now.

As a self funded independent developer myself I know first hand how hard it can be to both develop and publish games across multiple platforms and multiple digital stores.

The fact that he has still not yet been recognised by either the DICE Awards, BAFTA in the UK or The Game Awards is saddening.

(I hope that Richard, Harvey or Geoff will rectify this someday soon.)

The industry needs more developers like Jeff.

I can only hope that threads like this one will help gamers to take time to discover his work and join me in celebrating a truly unique and visionary gaming talent.

Click to shrink...

Thank you so much for sharing this, Alex. Almost teared up reading it. I truly hope some of the younger generation takes time to discover who Jeff Minter really is and what his impact has been on this creative, and magical medium we all love and cherish. People like him honestly give me hope.
Also, thank you for the years of entertainment with them amazing titles. <3

 

[Gunship]

I met Jeff in the street once, I recognised him, introduced myself and he was just the nicest, coolest guy you could meet, despite me be a jibbering fanboy who just invaded his space. He was wearing his llama jumper and black jeans and looked like a rock star on his day off. Total legend.

Polybius is one of the best games on the PS4. Don't let its throbbing psychedelic visuals put you off, even without VR it's an incredible experience. It's just so smooth, fluid and has an incredibly well designed progression system and learning curve.

 

[weblaus]

Has Atari even commented on the tempest 4000 delay - that somehow occurred post release lol?

Click to shrink...

Not publically to my knowlegde, but when I hit their PR agency up for review codes a few days before the supposed launch, I was told that "they're being held a little bit to allow for a global simultaneous release on all consoles and physical as well as digital formats" and that the inclusion in the posts on the PlayStation Blogs was by mistake. That said, this was days before the actual supposed release date and they still managed to let it on the NA store for a few hours... but that's the modern Atari, I guess.

One thing missing from this thread is how Polybius, and by extension most PSVR (launch) exclusives, drop like a thud with minimal promotional muscle from Sony. Same with Moss, Starblood Arena, Statik, Super HyperCube, The Inpatient, and Dino Frontier. I have yet to get a proactive "hey this is coming" alert from anybody on any of those games. In all of those cases, i've only gotten advance news alerts and review access when I've proactively nagged the devs, who are all small houses with zero PR focus.

Click to shrink...

Actually I'd say from all the VR games you're listing here, much as I think Statik is an awesome game, I feel Moss is the only one that has the potential to capture a wider audience

That said, Sony in Europe actually did provide review codes for Moss (something they extremely rarely do for non-fist party games), but only right before launch, while the Moss guys themselves had someone doing decent PR for them - I know because I received a number of PR releases quite a bit before it released and clearly there were a pretty good amount of reviews showing up on Metacritic in time for launch unlike most other PS VR games.

As for Polybius: I was really baffled how little effort Jeff Minter seems to put into promoting his games before launch - the video posted somewhere in this thread is the only "official" one for the game and originally he only put it up for download somewhere on his website - somebody else later put it on YouTube, Minter himself never bothered with that. And while he's endlessly tweeting pictures of his sheep or telling the world what he's eating, in the run up to the release of Polybius I think he posted about 2 or 3 times at most about it. While he did send out review codes to people asking (and I think that also was on on before launch day, but that's about all he did and I more or less got the impression that he could barely care less about letting people know about his stuff. Until he eventually realizes that this leads to barely-there sales numbers.

 

[shaneo632]

Shame. The game is fantastic and has incredible PSVR implementation.

 

[SturokBGD]

Stop making games only Minter fans are interested in. Problem solved.

Click to shrink...

Jeff Minter makes games Jeff Minter is interested in.

Without Jeff Minter I would not have become a game developer.

So there would have been no Burnout, no Burnout 2 Point of Impact, no Burnout 3 Takedown, no Burnout Revenge, no BLACK, no Burnout Paradise, no Dangerous Golf, no Lethal VR, no Danger Zone, no Danger Zone 2!

They never would have happened because I would have ended up, to paraphrase Jeff "as a breadhead" or worse "buying, selling or processing something" (thanks Lloyd!)

I own nearly all of this early VIC-20 titles on cassette. And I've still got them!

The first game I ever played on what I was told was a "VIC-64" was Jeff's "Attack of the Mutant Camels' - (and the first game I ever saw boot on a 1541 drive to boot)

At the early computer fairs and exhibitions in the UK in the 80's the Llamasoft stand was always a hive of activity.

Unlike a lot of other famous coders, Jeff always made time to be around and talk to his fans. (He signed my mate Ozzy's copy of "Iridis Alpha." with 'have a zarjaz blast!")

Jeff countless inspired many other people to become interested in microcomputers, coin-ops and gaming. Jeff also wrote and circulated his own newsletter to fans in the 80's. He was one of the few people writing about what was happening in the arcade scene. It was because of him I learned about games like "OutRun" and "Space Harrier.' It was Jeff who told me how good the GameBoy was, what the PC Engine was like, and what the Sega Megadrive was. There was no internet back then, and only C+VG featured coverage of arcade games. Quality information was scarce.

If I'd never gone out seeking an 'OutRun' machine then there definitely would never have been a Burnout game.

His work has been nothing but unique and original. He's always tried new things on new hardware. He's taken more risks than most developers will ever do in a lifetime. The only 'herd' he has ever chased has been his own.

He continues to do so today. He's an independent developer and he's still going. Still making games. And arguably doing his best work right now.

As a self funded independent developer myself I know first hand how hard it can be to both develop and publish games across multiple platforms and multiple digital stores.

The fact that he has still not yet been recognised by either the DICE Awards, BAFTA in the UK or The Game Awards is saddening.

(I hope that Richard, Harvey or Geoff will rectify this someday soon.)

The industry needs more developers like Jeff.

I can only hope that threads like this one will help gamers to take time to discover his work and join me in celebrating a truly unique and visionary gaming talent.

Click to shrink...

I love this.

 

[m0dus]

Some of the posts in this thread are shocking and seem to almost resent the idea of niche games, driven by mechanics and artistic expression, even being made.

Click to shrink...

I think maybe they want him to add lootboxes and a battle royale mode, fam.

But seriously. It's not crazy to hope for a decent return on investment when you release something polished and well received.

 

[Captain of Outer Space]

Without Jeff Minter I would not have become a game developer.

So there would have been no Burnout, no Burnout 2 Point of Impact, no Burnout 3 Takedown, no Burnout Revenge, no BLACK, no Burnout Paradise, no Dangerous Golf, no Lethal VR, no Danger Zone, no Danger Zone 2!

They never would have happened because I would have ended up, to paraphrase Jeff "as a breadhead" or worse "buying, selling or processing something" (thanks Lloyd!)

I own nearly all of this early VIC-20 titles on cassette. And I've still got them!

The first game I ever played on what I was told was a "VIC-64" was Jeff's "Attack of the Mutant Camels' - (and the first game I ever saw boot on a 1541 drive to boot)

At the early computer fairs and exhibitions in the UK in the 80's the Llamasoft stand was always a hive of activity.

Unlike a lot of other famous coders, Jeff always made time to be around and talk to his fans. (He signed my mate Ozzy's copy of "Iridis Alpha." with 'have a zarjaz blast!")

Jeff countless inspired many other people to become interested in microcomputers, coin-ops and gaming. Jeff also wrote and circulated his own newsletter to fans in the 80's. He was one of the few people writing about what was happening in the arcade scene. It was because of him I learned about games like "OutRun" and "Space Harrier.' It was Jeff who told me how good the GameBoy was, what the PC Engine was like, and what the Sega Megadrive was. There was no internet back then, and only C+VG featured coverage of arcade games. Quality information was scarce.

If I'd never gone out seeking an 'OutRun' machine then there definitely would never have been a Burnout game.

His work has been nothing but unique and original. He's always tried new things on new hardware. He's taken more risks than most developers will ever do in a lifetime. The only 'herd' he has ever chased has been his own.

He continues to do so today. He's an independent developer and he's still going. Still making games. And arguably doing his best work right now.

As a self funded independent developer myself I know first hand how hard it can be to both develop and publish games across multiple platforms and multiple digital stores.

The fact that he has still not yet been recognised by either the DICE Awards, BAFTA in the UK or The Game Awards is saddening.

(I hope that Richard, Harvey or Geoff will rectify this someday soon.)

The industry needs more developers like Jeff.

I can only hope that threads like this one will help gamers to take time to discover his work and join me in celebrating a truly unique and visionary gaming talent.

Click to shrink...

That's awesome to hear, but also, Danger Zone 2?!

 

[Yautja_Warrior]

Sad that this hasn't been successful, it's a great retro arcade game, people should pick this one up.

It's not like it can be blamed on VR either, as the game is fully playable without VR.

 

[Victory]

Making a game exclusive in this day and age without some kind of grant is madness.

 

[Epilexia]

Making a game exclusive in this day and age without some kind of grant is madness.

Click to shrink...

I think that 'Polybius' is not an exclusive tied to PS4, indeed Jeff Minter said that this will be eventually released in Steam.

Simply, things have been busy in Llamasoft this last year. They were able to sing a contract with Atari to make 'Tempest 4000', with a planned release in three systems, Playstaion 4, Steam and Xbox One. That is a lot of work for a small indie development team formed by only two persons.

 

[Huey]

Not publically to my knowlegde, but when I hit their PR agency up for review codes a few days before the supposed launch, I was told that "they're being held a little bit to allow for a global simultaneous release on all consoles and physical as well as digital formats" and that the inclusion in the posts on the PlayStation Blogs was by mistake. That said, this was days before the actual supposed release date and they still managed to let it on the NA store for a few hours... but that's the modern Atari, I guess.

Click to shrink...

I don't think the blog post could have been the mistake given it went live on the store briefly. But based on what you're saying, it's seems different persons of responsibility in Atari were not talking to each other and at least someone with some authority though it was releasing on March 28. Just super weird that there's no official statement at all, and kind of worrying that Atari thinks no one cares enough to make one.

 

[Breakfast at Noon]

Pre ordered it second it went live :) awesome in VR.

 

[Breakfast at Noon]

Double post.

Unsure how.

 

[Huey]

Without Jeff Minter I would not have become a game developer.

So there would have been no Burnout, no Burnout 2 Point of Impact, no Burnout 3 Takedown, no Burnout Revenge, no BLACK, no Burnout Paradise, no Dangerous Golf, no Lethal VR, no Danger Zone, no Danger Zone 2!

They never would have happened because I would have ended up, to paraphrase Jeff "as a breadhead" or worse "buying, selling or processing something" (thanks Lloyd!)

I own nearly all of this early VIC-20 titles on cassette. And I've still got them!

The first game I ever played on what I was told was a "VIC-64" was Jeff's "Attack of the Mutant Camels' - (and the first game I ever saw boot on a 1541 drive to boot)

At the early computer fairs and exhibitions in the UK in the 80's the Llamasoft stand was always a hive of activity.

Unlike a lot of other famous coders, Jeff always made time to be around and talk to his fans. (He signed my mate Ozzy's copy of "Iridis Alpha." with 'have a zarjaz blast!")

Jeff countless inspired many other people to become interested in microcomputers, coin-ops and gaming. Jeff also wrote and circulated his own newsletter to fans in the 80's. He was one of the few people writing about what was happening in the arcade scene. and "Space Harrier.' It was Jeff who told me how good the GameBoy was, what the PC Engine was like, and what the Sega Megadrive was. There was no internet back then, and only C+VG featured coverage of arcade games. Quality information was scarce.

If I'd never gone out seeking an 'OutRun' machine then there definitely would never have been a Burnout game.

His work has been nothing but unique and original. He's always tried new things on new hardware. He's taken more risks than most developers will ever do in a lifetime. The only 'herd' he has ever chased has been his own.

He continues to do so today. He's an independent developer and he's still going. Still making games. And arguably doing his best work right now.

As a self funded independent developer myself I know first hand how hard it can be to both develop and publish games across multiple platforms and multiple digital stores.

The fact that he has still not yet been recognised by either the DICE Awards, BAFTA in the UK or The Game Awards is saddening.

(I hope that Richard, Harvey or Geoff will rectify this someday soon.)

The industry needs more developers like Jeff.

I can only hope that threads like this one will help gamers to take time to discover his work and join me in celebrating a truly unique and visionary gaming talent.

Click to shrink...

This whole post is amazing.

Particularly this:

It was because of him I learned about games like "OutRun"
If I'd never gone out seeking an 'OutRun' machine then there definitely would never have been a Burnout game.

Click to shrink...

... is super interesting.

Also, is this the first confirmation of Danzer Zone 2? :)

 

[Victory]

I think that 'Polybius' is not an exclusive tied to PS4, indeed Jeff Minter said that this will be eventually released in Steam.

Simply, things have been busy in Llamasoft this last year. They were able to sing a contract with Atari to make 'Tempest 4000', with a planned release in three systems, Playstaion 4, Steam and Xbox One. That is a lot of work for a small indie development team formed by only two persons.

Click to shrink...

It feels like hard times are coming for the small indie community, is there anyway to help them?

 

[Trumpets]

I thought something was up when I finished it and found myself in the top 200 on the leaderboard, despite paying no attention to the score at all. There can't be more than a few hundred who have actually completed it.

It really is an amazing game though, even without PSVR.

 

[Epilexia]

It feels like hard times are coming for the small indie community, is there anyway to help them?

Click to shrink...

I suppose that the best way of supporting the indie developers that you love, is by buying their games when they are released, instead of waiting for fire sales, bundles or free gifts with subscriptions services.

All of this said, fortunately, we are still seeing a lot of stories of success coming from small developers doing small niche games.

And things don't look bad for Llamasoft, they will be release 'Tempest 4000' in the coming weeks and this is an hired and payed work. I suppose that if the sales are good, they will also see some nice royalties and bonus.

And 'TkX' was one of the greatest success in Llamasoft history, brining a lot of new Jeff Minter's fans who discovered their games thanks to this little indie arcade gem :)

 

[MonadL]

Never even heard of it until now. Watching videos on YouTube really makes me want to pick this up. Game looks nuts and relaxing at the same time.

 

[apocat]

I suppose that the best way of supporting the indie developers that you love, is by buying their games when they are released, instead of waiting for fire sales, bundles or free gifts with subscriptions services.

Click to shrink...

This right here. It's infuriating how people say they will support a creator by buying their game sometime in a future sale. Buying games on the cheap is fine, but you're not really supporting anyone that way, so please don't make it sound like the producers should be grateful for your patronage. If you want to help small independent studios, pay them for their products. They have bills to pay too.

By the way, it finally clicked where I recognised your avatar from. I love Scott Walker! That's another artist that walks his own totally unique path.

 

[mclem]

I can't help but wonder if naming it after an urban legend about an arcade game that melts peoples' brains was a hindrance!

 

[Jamesac68]

It's super fun how some users in this thread have a way of thinking close to an EA executive.

Click to shrink...

You vicious bastard! *applause*

 

[Gnorman]

Yup. Look at all the "Indie dev announced Switch version of game outsold all other versions" success stories — you can find them by the sound of HD Fanboys(tm) gnashing their teeth and downplaying the accomplishments. Being exclusive to PlayStation is even worse, because the user base is all into "cinematic experiences" with scruffy macho men, which is diametrically opposite to the Minter aesthetic.

Click to shrink...

What the fuck is this shit? I'm a HD Fanboy with a Turrican avatar!!

 

[inpHilltr8r]

i <3 jeff

 

[Rolento]

It doesn't require PSVR.

Click to shrink...

See... I didn't even know this -_-

Well Genna pu my money down when I get some spare change.

 

[oneils]

In case anyone wants to see how it's played. Minter plays and talks his way through the first 7 levels:





There never was a lawsuit. Just a completely fabricated letter from lawyers. The fact that Minter had zero money to defend himself against lies meant the letter accomplished its goal (shutting it down). TK4 is the replacement. Atari gonna get that tube gold now. LOL



His twitter account sure has made it sound like he's had no success getting Nintendo to give him access.

Click to shrink...

Great video. I thought it was a twin stick shooter, buts it's more like something akin to rez? What is this genre called? Anyway this video was pretty cool. definitely a buy.

 

[SaberVS7]

Well, of course he hasn't.

Do you guys know how expensive it is to get the MKUltra license from the FBI?

 

[blahness]

Because this is becoming a Minter love thread :) The next things he and Giles are working on is an environment to port some of the Minotaur project iOS games to PSVR. He already has a version of Gridrunner and GoatUp working.

 

[HeavenlyOne]

This is starting to feel like a self perpetuating myth. All Minters games have very unique and varied game mechanics. The people who complain that he only does the same game over and over really confuse me. He has done a few Tempest inspired games, true. But each one is very different. He's also done a lot of completely different games. Gridrunner was my favourite ios game for a long time, and Polybius only has the perspective in common with Tempest.

There is infinitely less variation between the majority of first person shooters or open world games than there is between most of Minters output. I've played his games since the c64, and actually think he's better than ever.

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I imagine a fan could go into the differences between games in great detail but to one not particularly interested they tend to "all look the same", and to a fan those differences can be enormous but to the disinterested the differences are meaningless. This is true of anything, whether the work of Jeff Minter or the majority of FPS. The Witcher 3 and Skyrim are both open world RPGs but you won't be able to convince a fan of one that they are basically the same. I haven't played a Minter game since the days of the C64 due to total lack of interest.

 

[EvoTech]

never heard of it >.>

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I remember it as something AVGN covered.

 

[Jamesac68]

Doom is the same as Call of Duty. You're a guy behind a gun. Everything you need to know you can tell at a glance, and they all look the same. One's got demons and the other soldiers, but it's just window dressing. I can tell by the screenshots.

 

[Kyoufu]

But seriously. It's not crazy to hope for a decent return on investment when you release something polished and well received.

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It is if the game is super niche. I mean, I'm all for art and good games too but if it's niche, it's niche. I don't get why it's crazy to point that out as an obvious reason for a game's lack of profitability.

 

[Shaneus]

It's a phenomenal game, with or without VR. Sucks to hear it wasn't a success.

Jeff's a hero, but I think he needs to partner with a smart business-focussed publisher. Let him do the coding/design, and let someone else worry about the business side of things.

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Honestly, I'm surprised he hasn't been contracted by someone like Housemarque or even Raw Thrills (given Eugene Jarvis is at the helm).

He doesn't seem like the kind of dude that would work for a somewhat large company (other than Atari, but look how that's going) but that's the only way his ideas/mechanics will get widespread coverage.

It hasn't been put on sale yet, correct? I am interested, but am waiting for a sale and have yet to see one. 50% off and I'm in.

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I bought it on sale, now I feel bad :/

 

[Shaneus]

This game doesn't require VR but it is highly recommended to play it in VR since it was designed with VR in mind. :)

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I can confirm it's mindbending on a 3D TV as well 8D

 

[JustinP]

Making a game exclusive in this day and age without some kind of grant is madness.

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The cash advance is probably why he hasn't seen a penny from sales (publisher needs to break even first, which is pretty typical when the publisher funds development)

Indie games are just too competitive — too many games, not enough people buying them. All the money basically goes to a small number of hits.

Indies do well on Switch because there's fewer games, not because Switch owners are somehow different — early PS4 and even iOS were also great for indies. As Switch matures as a platform and the market gets more competitive, that'll change.

 

[FireFistAce]

Comparative to the money being made on PC and Switch.

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Indies aren't doing well on PC either. It's simple maths - the more games a system has, the harder it is for small games to do well. PC and PS4. Remember how indie games were selling early on the PS4's life cycle, for example, Towerfall was very successful and sold best on the PS4.

 

[apocat]

I imagine a fan could go into the differences between games in great detail but to one not particularly interested they tend to "all look the same", and to a fan those differences can be enormous but to the disinterested the differences are meaningless. This is true of anything, whether the work of Jeff Minter or the majority of FPS. The Witcher 3 and Skyrim are both open world RPGs but you won't be able to convince a fan of one that they are basically the same. I haven't played a Minter game since the days of the C64 due to total lack of interest.

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Well, that's my point? Skyrim and the Witcher 3 probably has more in common with each other than Goat up has with Polybius. And I say that acknowledging that Skyrim and the Witcher is very different approaches to the same genre.Someone with no knowledge of pop music could try to argue that the Beatles, Public enemy and the Sex pistols basically are the same thing. That would not make them in the least right, they would only be flaunting their ignorance.

By the way, Polybius is pretty cool. It could be time to give Minter a chance again. A lot has happened since the C64.

 

[AbandonedTrolley]

Is he holding the buggy trophy ransom till it's made money?

https://psnprofiles.com/trophy/6133-polybius/19-cant-touch-this

 

[1-D_FE]

Indies aren't doing well on PC either. It's simple maths - the more games a system has, the harder it is for small games to do well. PC and PS4. Remember how indie games were selling early on the PS4's life cycle, for example, Towerfall was very successful and sold best on the PS4.

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Yeah. It's a deadzone everywhere. People cherry pick the occasional indie game that breaks through, but it's extremely rare. It's a hits driven business and it's all or nothing. Feels like the AAA sphere is actually healthier than the indie sphere (which is really saying something). Switch is simply the anomaly that's benefiting from being a very powerful handheld (something that's never truly existed before) and no backlog. It'll suffer the same fate as everything else (and it'll have nothing to do with garbage and "asset flips" clogging up the store. That's a false narrative that some people peddle to sell themselves. It'll become a dead zone because it'll be clogged with tons of great games and people will have a massive backlog just like every other platform.)

 

[Victory]

I suppose that the best way of supporting the indie developers that you love, is by buying their games when they are released, instead of waiting for fire sales, bundles or free gifts with subscriptions services.

All of this said, fortunately, we are still seeing a lot of stories of success coming from small developers doing small niche games.

And things don't look bad for Llamasoft, they will be release 'Tempest 4000' in the coming weeks and this is an hired and payed work. I suppose that if the sales are good, they will also see some nice royalties and bonus.

And 'TkX' was one of the greatest success in Llamasoft history, brining a lot of new Jeff Minter's fans who discovered their games thanks to this little indie arcade gem :)

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Nice to hear that TkX was a success, I keep on forgetting about that gem of a game.

The cash advance is probably why he hasn't seen a penny from sales (publisher needs to break even first, which is pretty typical when the publisher funds development)

Indie games are just too competitive — too many games, not enough people buying them. All the money basically goes to a small number of hits.

Indies do well on Switch because there's fewer games, not because Switch owners are somehow different — early PS4 and even iOS were also great for indies. As Switch matures as a platform and the market gets more competitive, that'll change.

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Thank you for the info. I hope Tempest is a better success for them.

 

[Bennibop]

Its a great game especially in VR. Hopefully a bit more word of mouth will help.

 

[Kaako]

I can confirm it's mindbending on a 3D TV as well 8D

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That's pretty cool. I didn't even knew it had 3D support for 3D TVs.

 

[Osiris397]

I don't think you know how...

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I don't think you know how the gaming industry works...fad peripherals for consoles don't make a BILLION PLUS DOLLARS sold on their own, not packed into a console bundle. It just doesn't happen. More importantly fad console peripherals don't have growing comunities of players that increasingly post peripheral specific game reviews online that double coverage/exposure like every 6 months.

 

[Shaneus]

That's pretty cool. I didn't even knew it had 3D support for 3D TVs.

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It absolutely does! I played it with my Sony Wireless Gold headphones, 3D glasses in a very dark room. It was sublime.

 

[CrashedAlex]

Putting money where mouth is. Have just set up a regular donation to Jeff and Giles and Llamasoft.

True independent developers need support in lots of different ways.

They need access to new hardware - new GPU's and development kits free of charge - (and that's how the folks at nVidia, Sony, MS and Nintendo can help) They need fans to support their work through purchasing their titles.

EA, UBI, ATVI - they've got millions in the Bank. You can buy their games on sale. But for folks like Jeff they need your support!

If you're a Switch owner and you want to play Jeff's games on the go - you should know that it would cost him close to £1000 to purchase a development kit from Nintendo just to see how his games would run and then be able to estimate how much time and work it would take for Llamasoft to code, tune, polish, test and submit on that system.

 

[Intel_89]

The game is awesome in VR, it's one of my favourite PS VR titles in fact. The low poly look means that the game looks incredibly sharp all the time and on top of that it's also a really fun arcade game.