Jeff Grubb rumor: MS is taking a loss on both series x and s with bigger loss on the s.

[Axel Stone]

The price is not close, even if PS5 DE somehow manages to get to 399, that is still 100 dollars more than the XSS if they buy the console outright. The fact of the matter is that this holiday the lowest entry point for Xbox is $25 while the lowest entry point for PS5 is 399 and that 25 dollars gives you hundreds of games to play day one.

Click to shrink...

Another thing to consider is that even if Sony can hit $399, you pretty much have to factor in the cost of at least one game on top.

Microsoft is bound to pack some amount of GPU in the box, so you can literally pay $299, go home and have more than you can possibly play to keep you busy for a while at least.

Edited price. I'm in the U.K. and got confused so put $249 originally.

 

[Deleted member 5028]

Another thing to consider is that even if Sony can hit $399, you pretty much have to factor in the cost of at least one game on top.

Microsoft is bound to pack some amount of GPU in the box, so you can literally pay $249, go home and have more than you can possibly play to keep you busy for a while at least.

Click to shrink...

Include the cost of PS+ too. Climbs higher

 

[Deleted member 52190]

Another thing to consider is that even if Sony can hit $399, you pretty much have to factor in the cost of at least one game on top.

Microsoft is bound to pack some amount of GPU in the box, so you can literally pay $249, go home and have more than you can possibly play to keep you busy for a while at least.

Click to shrink...

Buying a game with a console it is no problem so that ideia that somehow the console is more expensive because of that or because of ps+ is not real.

 

[Bradbatross]

Buying a game with a console it is no problem so that ideia that somehow the console is more expensive because of that or because of ps+ is not real.

Click to shrink...

It is real when the competition is letting consumers play launch games for free.

 

[fiendcode]

That's all we have to go on. The PS3 outsold it yearly and caught up to it and by the end of the generation had hit it's stride... So why would the 360 have sold more? That makes no sense. Especially with MS's focus on Kinect by the end of the generation.

There's a reason they stopped reporting on numbers...

Click to shrink...

This has been gone over ad naseum and even analysts (like Zhuge) agree; 360 equaled or slightly exceeded PS3 in the end. PS3 also didn't outperform it annually every year (starting 2010 360 led iirc) and ltd date aligned 360 always led.

The reason they stopped reporting numbers was due to XBO. Just like when Sony stopped because of Vita.

 

[Axel Stone]

Buying a game with a console it is no problem so that ideia that somehow the console is more expensive because of that or because of ps+ is not real.

Click to shrink...

It definitely will be a factor that people will consider when choosing between these two boxes. How could it not be?

 

[Deleted member 52190]

It is real when the competition is letting consumers play launch games for free.

Click to shrink...

You are not play anything for free.

 

[Chasing]

The price is not close, even if PS5 DE somehow manages to get to 399, that is still 100 dollars more than the XSS if they buy the console outright. The fact of the matter is that this holiday the lowest entry point for Xbox is $25 while the lowest entry point for PS5 is 399 and that 25 dollars gives you hundreds of games to play day one.

Click to shrink...

*25

I'd like to give people enough credit that they know they are paying 500 or 800 bucks over two years. Although I don't know, is retailer financing really not that big of a thing in America? Besides phones obviously. I can scarcely believe that.

 

[Ant Fort]

Even during the 80's . Consoles opened at a loss. If I remember my history correctly

 

[Deleted member 52190]

It definitely will be a factor that people will consider when choosing between these two boxes. How could it not be?

Click to shrink...

Of course it is, like price or specs, everything is taking in to consideration. But you are saying that the person needs to buy a game as add cost to the console which is not true.

That is like saying that one person is going to buy Series S but the console doesnt cost 299 because they decide to buy Cyberpunk. instead of sub to gamepass.

 

[Bradbatross]

You are not play anything for free.

Click to shrink...

Included with the price of the console, so you're paying $299 for the console, controller, and multiple launch games along with the rest of the Game Pass library.

 

[Deleted member 52190]

Included with the price of the console, so you're paying $299 for the console, controller, and multiple launch games along with the rest of the Game Pass library.

Click to shrink...

Yes but that doenst come for free, game pass is not a free service.

 

[Bradbatross]

Yes but that doenst come for free, game pass is not a free service.

Click to shrink...

It'll likely be included with the console, so free.

 

[Adrifi]

Included with the price of the console, so you're paying $299 for the console, controller, and multiple launch games along with the rest of the Game Pass library.

Click to shrink...

Is we are talking about launch games he's relatively right. The Medium, The Ascent and other launch games are not launching on Game Pass day one.

 

[Axel Stone]

.

 

[Deleted member 52190]

It'll likely be included with the console, so free.

Click to shrink...

Ok....

 

[Bradbatross]

Is we are talking about launch games he's relatively right. The Medium, The Ascent and other launch games are not launching on Game Pass day one.

Click to shrink...

The Medium is absolutely launching on Game Pass day one, as is Gears Tactics.

Ok....

Click to shrink...

I'm not really sure what you're not understanding. Game Pass will likey be included in the box for $299.

 

[Axel Stone]

Of course it is, like price or specs, everything is taking in to consideration. But you are saying that the person needs to buy a game as add cost to the console which is not true.

That is like saying that one person is going to buy Series S but the console doesnt cost 299 because they decide to buy Cyberpunk. instead of sub to gamepass.

Click to shrink...

I don't know if that's really a fair comparison. Very few people will buy a PS5 without a game, Astro Bot isn't likely to be the reason anyone buys a PS5. Maybe if they packed in Spider-Man it might be, but people will almost certainly be buying that on top.

Game Pass is absolutely the reason people will buy an S, and that comes in the box.

In either case people might choose to buy additional games as well, but the fact is that the sticker price for both consoles alone provide vastly different experiences for what you can do with your new console,

 

[Deleted member 52190]

The Medium is absolutely launching on Game Pass day one, as is Gears Tactics.

I'm not really sure what you're not understanding. Game Pass will likey be included in the box for $299.

Click to shrink...

I already explained it.

 

[Brohan]

It'll likely be included with the console, so free.

Click to shrink...

For now that's nothing more than an assumption.

 

[Adrifi]

The Medium is absolutely launching on Game Pass day one, as is Gears Tactics.

I'm not really sure what you're not understanding. Game Pass will likey be included in the box for $299.

Click to shrink...

Lol okay I didn't know it was on game pass day one, that's amazing.

 

[Deleted member 52190]

I don't know if that's really a fair comparison. Very few people will buy a PS5 without a game, Astro Bot isn't likely to be the reason anyone buys a PS5. Maybe if they packed in Spider-Man it might be, but people will almost certainly be buying that on top.

Game Pass is absolutely the reason people will buy an S, and that comes in the box.

In either case people might choose to buy additional games as well, but the fact is that the sticker price for both consoles alone provide vastly different experiences for what you can do with your new console,

Click to shrink...

You cant say that, Series S is not exclusive box for gamepass.

 

[test_account]

That's kind of a non statement. Obviously if the PS5 can be released as cheap as the barebones XSS then that would be a disaster of epic proportions for MS. Also the PS5 would blow away any sales we've ever seen before.

Click to shrink...

Sure, saying that if the PS5 and the Xbox Seris were both $299, the PS5 value would have looked a lot better than what XSS offeres, that is pretty much a given, indeed. I think the same kinda goes for that the PS5 would sell amazing if it was $299, but i dont think its directly a statement to say that, but more of just adding to the conversation :) That is what i was trying to do, just add to the conversation, i wasnt really try to make any statement in that regards. What i was replying to seemed to be about if Sony could have any chance to match those prices, so i just wanted to say that its was almost no doubt that the Xbox Series S would be cheaper than any of the PS5 models based on the weaker hardware in the XSS, even before we knew the price, in my opinion, and i dont think Sony had calculated if they could match that price or not (or maybe if the XSS was $399, but who knows).

EDIT: Reading my previous post again, i could have clearified that when i talked about the PS5 being the same price as the XSS, i was only thinking about the Digital Edition (i edited my first post now, adding this). The PS5 with the disc drive will likely be $100 more expensive.


And when i was talking about matching prices, i wasnt just thinking about $299 (i think that would be basically impossible) just to point that out, but also if both the PS5 Digital Edtion and XSS were $399. Its not impossible that the PS5 Digital Edition will be $399 (i sort of doubt it however, but who knows), so i think Microsoft knew that they had to price the XSS low to be sure that it wouldnt match the PS5 DE version, because that wouldnt be a good look in terms of value of course. And if both systems were $399, the PS5 might not have sold more than ever before, but maybe matched what the PS4 did (since that was also $399)? If the PS5 Digital Edition was $299 however, then i agree that it would have a lot bigger chance =)

So my overall point was just that the XSS would likely have been cheaper regardless, and Sony wouldnt be able to match its price because they dont have a console model that has weaker hardware in comparison to their other model =)

 

[Windu]

For now that's nothing more than an assumption.

Click to shrink...

Xbox Ones currently come with Game Pass trials.

 

[Brohan]

Xbox Ones currently come with Game Pass trials.

Click to shrink...

I don't think he meant a 7 day trial. Anyways that's like saying you don't need to buy a game for the PS5 either because you can just start a free trial of PSNow.

 

[Axel Stone]

You cant say that, Series S is not exclusive box for gamepass.

Click to shrink...

Of course it isn't, but you can absolutely simply buy an S, take it home and play games you might be interested in on it without paying a single extra penny.

You're unlikely going to be able to do that on PS5 unless you happen to be a fan of Astro Bot, so it will necessarily mean spending additional money, and that will be a factor for people, without a doubt.

 

[Deleted member 37917]

Good, then I'm even more confident that buying an S is good value!

 

[Deleted member 52190]

Of course it isn't, but you can absolutely simply buy an S, take it home and play games you might be interested in on it without paying a single extra penny.

You're unlikely going to be able to do that on PS5 unless you happen to be a fan of Astro Bot, so it will necessarily mean spending additional money, and that will be a factor for people, without a doubt.

Click to shrink...

The service is not free, i dont know where that ideia is coming from.

And might is a good point, because you can also sub to psnow to do that. But again, is not a free service.

 

[Axel Stone]

I don't think he meant a 7 day trial. Anyways that's like saying you don't need to buy a game for the PS5 either because you can just start a free trial of PSNow.

Click to shrink...

You currently get a one month trial. I expect you'll get at least that with the next gen machines.

 

[Brohan]

Of course it isn't, but you can absolutely simply buy an S, take it home and play games you might be interested in on it without paying a single extra penny.

You're unlikely going to be able to do that on PS5 unless you happen to be a fan of Astro Bot, so it will necessarily mean spending additional money, and that will be a factor for people, without a doubt.

Click to shrink...

As someone really interested in the XsS and gamepass combo I really don't think it will be much of a factor. Even budget concious people that are going for the XsS are most likely going to buy the big hitters that simply don't launch on gamepass, like Call of Duty and the likes.

Gamepass is amazing value but it's not like you never need to buy any games again if you want to play the latest third party blockbuster with your friends.

You currently get a one month trial. I expect you'll get at least that with the next gen machines.

Click to shrink...

And after that month is over?

 

[Axel Stone]

The service is not free, i dont know where that ideia is coming from.

And might is a good point, because you can also sub to psnow to do that. But again, is not a free service.

Click to shrink...

You get a one month trial in the box right now. It won't cost you anything for a month, at least.

 

[Netherscourge]

Sony needs a $299 option. Simple as that.

 

[Deleted member 52190]

You get a one month trial in the box right now. It won't cost you anything for a month, at least.

Click to shrink...

Yes but you dont buy a console just to play for a month, you buy it to last years, so that ideia that you just pay 299$ and you are set is not true.

 

[El-Pistolero]

Sony needs a $299 option. Simple as that.

Click to shrink...

They really don't. What they have will carry them comfortably throughout the whole year, without breaking a sweat.

 

[SgtCobra]

Is this the general mindset of Xbox Era? It can't be..

Click to shrink...

I'm seeing quite some wild takes these past few days

 

[Bradbatross]

Yes but you dont buy a console just to play for a month, you buy it to last years, so that ideia that you just pay 299$ and you are set is not true.

Click to shrink...

The conversation was about the launch, and being able to pay $299 to get the console and brand new games that you can play day one. Obviously over the course of a generation, people will pay more than just the initial cost of the console. Game Pass brings value that we've never really seen before during a console launch.

 

[Netherscourge]

They really don't. What they have will carry them comfortably throughout the whole year, without breaking a sweat.

Click to shrink...

Let me rephrase this:

I need a $299 option from Sony!

 

[Axel Stone]

As someone really interested in the XsS and gamepass combo I really don't think it will be much of a factor. Even budget concious people that are going for the XsS are most likely going to buy the big hitters that simply don't launch on gamepass, like Call of Duty and the likes.

Gamepass is amazing value but it's not like you never need to buy any games again if you want to play the latest third party blockbuster with your friends.



And after that month is over?

Click to shrink...

Yes but you dont buy a console just to play for a month, you buy it to last years, so that ideia that you just pay 299$ and you are set is not true.

Click to shrink...

I'm clearly not explaining myself very well.

Of course people will want to buy third party games, of course that trial only gets you through the first month, but that's still a lot more than you're getting with your PlayStation for that first month. The fact that you can defer buying any additional games until your next paycheque will make a huge difference to which box you choose when confronted with two options.

If you're buying a PlayStation you're looking at $399, say, plus the third party game you want.

If you're looking at the S, you're looking at $299 and being set for a month. Maybe you'll buy the console now and the game you want next month, or choose to sub to GamePass next month, or whatever, but the difference in upfront cost in those two scenarios is considerable, and will factor into buying decisions, without a doubt.

Edited price. See below.

 

[Brohan]

I'm clearly not explaining myself very well.

Of course people will want to buy third party games, of course that trial only gets you through the first month, but that's still a lot more than you're getting with your PlayStation for that first month. The fact that you can defer buying any additional games until your next paycheque will make a huge difference to which box you choose when confronted with two options.

If you're buying a PlayStation you're looking at $399, say, plus the third party game you want.

If you're looking at the S, you're looking at $249 and being set for a month. Maybe you'll buy the console now and the game you want next month, or choose to sub to GamePass next month, or whatever, but the difference in upfront cost in those two scenarios is considerable, and will factor into buying decisions, without a doubt.

Click to shrink...

The XsS is $299 last I checked. Anyways by this logic people wouldn't need to buy any games for the PS5 either because they could just start a free trial of PSNow. I just don't think your scenario will be much of a consideration for many people at all.

Again, even on the XsS most will want the latest and greatest, meaning games that won't be on Gamepass. I'm positive that most people buying any one of the next gen consoles will also buy a new game at launch. People really not looking to spend any on a game because they can stick to gamepass most likely are sticking to current gen consoles for a while.

 

[Axel Stone]

The XsS is $299 last I checked. Anyways by this logic people wouldn't need to buy any games for the PS5 either because they could just start a free trial of PSNow. I just don't think your scenario will be much of a consideration for many people at all.

Again, even on the XsS most will wan't the latest and greatest, meaning games that won't be on Gamepass. I'm positive that most people buying any one of the next gen consoles will also buy a new game at launch. People really need looking to spend any on a game because they can stick to gamepass most likely are sticking to current gen consoles for a while.

Click to shrink...

Sorry, yes, I keep on saying $249 as I'm getting my £ and $ price mixed up. I'll edit.

And the difference with PSNow is that you will have launch titles on GP day one, The Medium and Gears Tactics at least.

 

[EVIL]

no suprise, and sony will 100% sell at a loss in order to match 499, or even undercut (for sure with their PS5DE)

 

[Brohan]

Sorry, yes, I keep on saying $249 as I'm getting my £ and $ price mixed up. I'll edit.

And the difference with PSNow is that you will have launch titles on GP day one, The Medium and Gears Tactics at least.

Click to shrink...

While i'm sure those game will do well they are not the blockbusters that I'm talking about. Your scenario makes me imagine a person that really doesn't have money to spend yet for some reason decides to spend every last dime that he has on a Series S without any games because he still has a Gamepass subscription.

I really don't think that is very realistic at all... Such a person would more than likely just stick to his Xbox One and play his Gamepass games on there.

 

[CatAssTrophy]

Where is this assumption coming from that Sony won't have any means of providing free PS5 content to consumers on day one?

Between the ability to throw in free trials of PS+ and Now, and just straight up giving away free games, I don't see any utility in trying to factor in games cost into the price of the boxes themselves. At least not yet anyway.

 

[Axel Stone]

While i'm sure those game will do well they are not the blockbusters that I'm talking about. Your scenario makes me imagine a person that really doesn't have money to spend yet for some reason decides to spend every last dime that he has on a Series S without any games because he still has a Gamepass subscription.

I really don't think that is very realistic at all... Such a person would more than likely just stick to his Xbox One and play his Gamepass games on there.

Click to shrink...

That assumes this person already has an Xbox One.

 

[Brohan]

That assumes this person already has an Xbox One.

Click to shrink...

Probably a reasonable assumption if they are that focused on Gamepass.

 

[Uzupedro]

I think that if someone considers GP a big factor, or ''THE'' reason, when buying one of these consoles it is very unlikely that this person will pass on XSX and even more the XSS.
Unless Sony pushes PSNOW really hard, at least with 3P content(Which is a likely possibility, more than 1P), this is something almost worthless discussing since it doesn't have ''true'' competition.

 

[entremet]

I'm thinking 500/600 for the PS5 now.

 

[Axel Stone]

Where is this assumption coming from that Sony won't have any means of providing free PS5 content to consumers on day one?

Between the ability to throw in free trials of PS+ and Now, and just straight up giving away free games, I don't see any utility in trying to factor in games cost into the price of the boxes themselves. At least not yet anyway.

Click to shrink...

They've already said Astro Bot will be the pack in, no?

They could add an extra game I guess. Or pack in PSNow.

 

[Axel Stone]

Probably a reasonable assumption if he is that focused on Gamepass.

Click to shrink...

The people that are focused on Game Pass are probably already planning to pick up an S or X, maybe at launch, maybe down the line.

This is about people who are deciding between two consoles, so likely not ones who are already invested in GP.

 

[CatAssTrophy]

They've already said Astro Bot will be the pack in, no?

They could add an extra game I guess. Or pack in PSNow.

Click to shrink...

Yep, and even if we're being extra generous and considering Astro Bot a "non-game" and thus it "doesn't count" I think it would be really foolish to (at least at this point in time) assume Sony has no freebies or goodies to give away with PS5 launch to entice consumers.

If I had to make a wild guess I would assume they're going to announce a sizeable PS+ trial packed in with consoles, and maybe a few launch games are free for a limited time. If they can randomly drop big content moves on their player base in the middle of a gen they can do something fancy at the launch of a new console, IMO. This is no longer the PS3 Sony days leading up to the PS4 launch. They have lightyears more experience now with online and services at this juncture.